Transgenderization

[John Doe]

Okay, so I was writing a fake speech (more like a rant) about the liberties of people... and somewhere along in it... I was going off about how I don't care what you are whether you're <insert a long list of social groupings> I would want to see a world where everyone can be who they want to be and believe in things that want ot believe in without hindering anyone else in the process. I came across transgender in this long list. I have always thought about what I'm going to ask next, but today I thought harder about it than any other time. Since I'm not transgender or will never be in that position... and I have my own prejudices (good and bad probably) I don't think I have thought about transgender folks the "right" way. Mind you, nothing negative. Here's the point: for me, I have always referred to a transgender person as what they see themselves. For instance, if its a female whose in the male-process, I'll call the person a "he." I was just curious and directing my question to our transgender populous on here, what you think (I know it all varies from person to person)... It's not anything like a name, where you can say call me, <insert name>. If I knew everyone's name this middle ground wouldn't be an issue. I guess what I'm trying to say is... do you consider yourself transgender? Take the word itself... 'trans' means to move or movement of some sort (loosely) for example: transport, transit, etc. So to be transgender... a person is moving from one gender to the other (again simplified). Instead of taking into consideration the "process," why not use the identity the person has afliated him/herself with? For me, I see transgender as a process... and something makes me slightly uncomfortable when I hear transgender... I'm assuming it's just me and that I have an issue with the word transgender and its implication that here I have a grey area and not something black and white, on one side of the fence...

[Cia]

Actually look at the latin root of 'trans'. It means opposite, across, or beyond. Essentially, the physical gender is one, but the mental perception of the person's gender is the 'opposite'. A person doesn't have to be transitioning to be transgendered. It simply means their mind and their body aren't in sync. Some transgendered people don't actually want to be physically changed.

 

I'm not transgendered, but I think I understand the issue quite well. Basically, no one can tell anyone else how they feel. If a person tells me they are a guy, they're a guy. If they tell me they're a woman, they're a woman. No one is EVER an it.

[Nephylim]

I see where you're coming from, I think. In fact, I believe that you are asking exactly what Cia has said, namely, rather than think of a process gender should be considered to be what that individual considers themselves to be ie if a person in a physically female body considers themselves to be male then they are transgendered no matter where on the scale of 'change' they are. Whether it is purely mental or carried further into the physical. Obviously the same for a female encased in a physically male body.

 

In that I would wholly agree.

[TrevorTime]

Some transgendered people don't actually want to be physically changed.

 

This part confuses me somewhat. I mean, if I were an MTF (this is all hypothetical, of course), then I would grow my hair longer, put on makeup, and make every effort to appear as a female to the rest of the general population.

 

I'll admit though, I don't know a lot about what it means to be transgender. To be honest, it seems like a very difficult thing to have to endure.

[Cia]

I'm sure quite a few do change their exterior appearance in that way. I suppose I shot straight to surgical or chemical alternatives for someone who identifies as transgendered. Mentally, I would guess that the process for them is much like those of us of 'alternative' sexuality. It's a process of learning who we are and how we want to share that with the world.

[Arpeggio]

I'm a guy, my driver's license says female, but that is not who I am. I won't ever put transgendered down as my gender because it makes me uncomfortable. I've chosen not to have surgery for personal reasons, but I have been a guy since I could understand it, and I want people to know me as a guy, cause there's nothing else to think of me as. What is in my pants is irrelevant and, personally, none ya. It can get confusing, i guess, and I've had some people, after finding out I'm transgender, refer to me as she/her or even worse, he/she, it, and vagina boy. -__-

 

And Cia is right, not every transgender feels the need to surgically alter their body, I'm one of them. I dress like the usual guy, and I guess I'm lucky that I'm small and bodyless, but there are some who do layer their clothes or wear wraps, or attempt to deepen their voice so people don't make them even more insecure.

 

 

For the most part, it does make me uncomfortable to be "that transgender". I don't mind using it as an umbrella term, but to have people see me and think "he/she" is unnerving. I'm a normal guy, thanks. XD

[John Doe]

I won't ever put transgendered down as my gender because it makes me uncomfortable.

This was what I was trying to get at. The term use to describe a person. Somedays even the term homosexual is kinda weird for me. I was wondering how others felt. Thanks for the responses. Arpeggio, don't pay any attention to those fools. You are who you are.

[Zombie]

This part confuses me somewhat. I mean, if I were an MTF (this is all hypothetical, of course), then I would grow my hair longer, put on makeup, and make every effort to appear as a female to the rest of the general population.

 

I knew someone who did just that several years ago when he and his wife, both medical doctors (GPs), were clients of the company I worked for at the time. They had been married over 25 years, lived a conventional family life and had two children on the verge of leaving home. He, Steven, one day announced to his family that he had always felt he was a woman in a man's body but had lived a conventional life trying to suppress these feelings while bringing up his family. Now aged 50+ he had an overwhelming desire to live as he felt he should be living and told them he wanted to change his identity, to live as a woman, dress as a woman and adopt a woman's name. His family were, understandably, shocked. However, after a period of adjustment, they were very supportive. He continued to live with his wife, adopted the name Sarah (or similar) and continued working as a GP. The first time I met Sarah after the change it could have been a different person, including a different voice. I suppose this helped because, for me, Sarah was a different person (wig, makeup, floral dress - the lot) who just happened to have the same file details as Steven. The only thing that struck me was that Sarah hadn't got the whole makeup thing quite right. Sarah seemed entirely comfortable as this new person and, I understand, later had counseling for reassignment surgery but I don't know if Sarah pursued this because I had left the company by then and lost contact.

[Percy]

Okay, so I was writing a fake speech (more like a rant) about the liberties of people... and somewhere along in it... I was going off about how I don't care what you are whether you're <insert a long list of social groupings> I would want to see a world where everyone can be who they want to be and believe in things that want ot believe in without hindering anyone else in the process. I came across transgender in this long list. I have always thought about what I'm going to ask next, but today I thought harder about it than any other time. Since I'm not transgender or will never be in that position... and I have my own prejudices (good and bad probably) I don't think I have thought about transgender folks the "right" way. Mind you, nothing negative. Here's the point: for me, I have always referred to a transgender person as what they see themselves. For instance, if its a female whose in the male-process, I'll call the person a "he." I was just curious and directing my question to our transgender populous on here, what you think (I know it all varies from person to person)... It's not anything like a name, where you can say call me, <insert name>. If I knew everyone's name this middle ground wouldn't be an issue. I guess what I'm trying to say is... do you consider yourself transgender? Take the word itself... 'trans' means to move or movement of some sort (loosely) for example: transport, transit, etc. So to be transgender... a person is moving from one gender to the other (again simplified). Instead of taking into consideration the "process," why not use the identity the person has afliated him/herself with? For me, I see transgender as a process... and something makes me slightly uncomfortable when I hear transgender... I'm assuming it's just me and that I have an issue with the word transgender and its implication that here I have a grey area and not something black and white, on one side of the fence...

 

It sounds like you’ve got a good understanding, and like Cia and Nephylim confirmed, transpeople go by the gender to which they transitioned. If you’re not sure how to refer to someone, just ask “What pronouns do you prefer?” or something along those lines.

 

For myself, I think of the word transgender as a fact about myself more than as my gender. Think of it this way - if you were to meet a guy who was unattached, you would initially think of him as single. At some point, you may learn that he’s actually divorced. This doesn’t change his single status, it simply adds context to it. It’s a fact about him. Naturally, you might have a lot of follow up questions for him.

• How long ago was he married? For how long?
• Increasingly…was he married to a woman or a man?
• What caused the divorce?
• Does he have kids? If so, how is his relationship with them? Do they live with him?
• Is he friendly with his ex?
• Was the divorce agreeable or bitter?

How much of the story is shared is going to depend on your relationship with the person. Casual acquaintances aren’t likely to get the lowdown on all the details of what caused the divorce or the nuances of his relationship with his kids, and a casual acquaintance probably wouldn't even ask. But, that conversation should happen if a long-term, intimate relationship is on the table. Everyone’s story of divorce is going to be a little different.

 

Likewise with the trans population. Everyone’s story is going to be a little different, but the word itself is useful for giving a general fact about someone. There’s more to the story than just ‘male’ or ‘female’ just like with our guy above, there was more to the story than just ‘single’. Again, like above, it’s natural to be curious about the details but the level of information shared about the experience or the person’s thoughts about their trans experience is going to depend entirely on the relationship you have with them.

[Dolores Esteban]

I'm not transgendered. However, I actually took a test to find out if I was. The test result labeled me androgynous, brain 50% male, 50% female, and this quite fits how I feel about myself. Gender, in my eyes, is a state of mind. I can switch from one to the other. This happened uncontrolled in previous years and it confused me a great deal. However, I never really suffered from it and I never felt the desire to change my body. I would not want to live a male life, although I don't lead the typical female life and I don't feel the desire to. My basic gender is female, my secondary is male. Someone not familiar with it, most likely thinks I'm weird or whatever. But, in all honesty, I do not care. I don't feel wrong. I feel whole and complete. I express my other side in writing. It does suffice for me.

 

I can imagine, however, that somebody feels trapped in the wrong body and ultimately chooses to have surgery. The term 'transgendered', in my eyes, just states this fact. People with gender issues should not be looked down upon and their identity should not be narrowed down to one single word that, after all, is meaningless.

[jfalkon]

It was actually the transgender label that brought me back to this we site after a long busy few years. The label does make a person stand out. I always thought of the word as being similar to the word transcendent. Basically it indicates that a person is hard to classify.

 

The choice to transition is another issue. There are may reasons why people would be unwilling to go through the change. I have a few reasons. One is the gross out factor. It would scare enough of my friends and relatives to make daily life quite uncomfortable for me. I don't think that anyone I know would resent me for changing. They just would have a hard time wrapping their minds around the concept. Couple that with all the hoops that a person has to jump through to get approval for treatments from a doctor and you have a very awkward five to ten years.

 

The medical side of it is another issue. Doctors are very wary of making such dramatic changes to a person's body. As a result they start with the most reversible processes. Unfortunately changing the hormones first and then the physical structures can make the surgical procedures more difficult. There are significant delays between various steps in the procedure giving people time to change their minds (or as I see it giving people more time in a gender ambiguous twilight zone.) Some of this may improve as medical technology advances.

 

There is also the expense. The cost of the medical procedures makes a four bedroom house look like a bargain. That is not to mention possible complications at work or difficulties in finding a job.

 

Taking all of that into considerationI consider my self trangendered but the transition is not going to happen any time soon. I have to admit that it is not an entirely happy state. I tend to avoid being naked anywhere near a mirror and I have a lot of sympathy for neutered dogs.

[John Doe]

For myself, I think of the word transgender as a fact about myself more than as my gender. Think of it this way - if you were to meet a guy who was unattached, you would initially think of him as single. At some point, you may learn that he’s actually divorced. This doesn’t change his single status, it simply adds context to it. It’s a fact about him. Naturally, you might have a lot of follow up questions for him.

 

 

What an excellant way of putting it. At least, that's what I think. Thank you for you insights, everyone.

 

jfalkon, whatever the means and whatever your choices are, I pray and wish for the best for you and everyone out there.

[jfalkon]

What an excellant way of putting it. At least, that's what I think. Thank you for you insights, everyone.

 

jfalkon, whatever the means and whatever your choices are, I pray and wish for the best for you and everyone out there.

 

Thanks. I am always amazed at how nice people are here!

[hh5]

I know someone as straight then after college ten years later tell me ... took more than that time to have surgical all done ... but I surprised her more than she surprise me ... about me caring about the person ... not the gender ... I surprise her telling i am gay ... so in the end ... there is me a friend that's still a true friend

 

here's something sort of on topic ... go to thailand ... you will find a lot of ... what they call Kathoey - Lady Boy

 

Kathoey or katoey (Thai: กะเทย; RTGS: Kathoei;[kaʔtʰɤːj]) is a Thai term that refers to a transgender person or an effeminate gay male in Thailand. While a significant number of Thais perceive kathoeys as belonging to a third gender, including many kathoeys themselves, others see them as either a kind of man or a kind of woman.[1] Related phrases include sao (or phuying) praphet song (Thai: สาวประเภทสอง,"a second kind of woman"), or phet thi sam (Thai:เพศที่สาม, "third gender"). The word kathoey is thought to be of Khmer origin[2](the equivalent Khmer word is "kteuy").[3] It is most often rendered as ladyboyin English conversation with Thais and this latter expression has become popular across South East Asia.

It seems to be a social journey to find acceptance ... in a non accepting world ... even if one is surgically altered ...

 

someone who finds out will always resort to cruelty to those that is different ...

its a matter of how we educate our kids to accept ... who we are is who we are

 

Its a long battle .. the hindrance and ignorance is politics then comes the people

so perhaps things will change in next 50 years

but the ones who's life to live now won't get that chance

 

hence we is born in the wrong time n wrong place

[tator_tot2010]

I think there's a bit of a misconception here about a few things, namely terminology, so I figured I'd clear that up real quick.

 

Transgender is an umbrella term that really refers to anyone whose gender identity (a mental construct) does not match their sex (a physical state). This can include cross-dressers, drag queens, bigender individuals, transsexuals, and others. It does not necessarily mean they have a desire to go through any medical procedures to change their sex, unless they are transsexuals, and even some transsexuals choose to forego medical interference.

 

Transsexual is a word used to describe someone who feels as though their gender is the opposite of what their biological sex is, and oftentimes go through hormone therapy and SRS (sex reassignment surgery) in order to correct this perceived issue. In the psychological realm, this is called, "gender dysphoria", although there is a significant debate about the use of the term.

 

So, in short, transsexuals are transgender, but not all transgender folks are transsexual. Somewhat confusing, I know, but it's always helpful to know the difference.

[hh5]

There's a problem with dating websites ... they fail to give equality service to transgender or transsexuals

 

its a dis-service to regular members when they meet up with the above

[Zombie]

So, in short, transsexuals are transgender, but not all transgender folks are transsexual. Somewhat confusing, I know, but it's always helpful to know the difference.

 

Thanks for that. I have difficulty getting my head around the terminology. A light bulb will go off and I'll think "Yep, I've got it", then sometime later I'll get lost in the labels. Doesn't help when "Gender verification in sports" is discussed and the whole issue of "sex testing", hormones and female XY chromosomes is raised. That's when I find the grasp I thought I had has completely slipped away

 

http://en.wikipedia....ation_in_sports

[Yettie One]

I'd never come across anyone who'd gone through anything like this until I came to the UK, and when I did meet a young lass through a friend of mine that had made the transition, it was initially really hard to get my head around.

I learnt a very valuable lesson through chatting to her and giving her the chance I could easily have snuffed out through my own naive prejudices.

She took the time to explain that as a boy she'd suffered an endless turmoil and state of confusion, always wondering, fearing, asking... Just the simple change of dressing differently, growing our her hair and changing the way she lived from being all male to presenting herself as a young woman had made all the difference in the world to her life.

I guess I learnt through her that my perception of a person, even one I may not initially understand is irrelevant, and everyone should be given a chance, as we all have value and meaning as part of our society. By taking the time to get to know her I made a friend where I could easily have jumped to the wrong conclusion and never known how wonderful she really was.

Does the gender someone considers themselves really matter? Isn't the character of the person the thing of real value?

It's not something I completely understand, but I think everyone deserves the chance to be themselves as they see fit, not as we imagine they should be.

[Zombie]

Got to tell you about Romeos which I downloaded and watched yesterday. This is a German film about Lukas, a transsexual who has not (yet) undergone reassignment surgery, and his life as a teenager. It gives real insight into the humanity of transsexualism - the ignorance of others (me included), the ridicule, the humiliation, the self-centeredness of Lukas as a transsexual (understandable given the daily struggle to assert his identity), the grim reality of taking daily hormone injections, not being able to wear summer clothes because of the tight chest bindings needed underneath in order to appear male. Never mind the courage and resolve to take the medical steps necessary to complete the transition.

 

This is not a grim, sensational, disturbing or depressing film. It is vibrant, full of life and humour, with engaging characters filmed on location, produced and acted to a high standard. And the love interest is portrayed with real emotion and conviction. But the star is Lukas. He is (for me anyway) utterly convincing. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Get it and see it. You won't be disappointed

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1830792/

Edited June 18, 2012 by Zombie