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The Paradox of Friendship


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seanthomas:

 

I do think Riley and Dexter are mean at times. I think they're cruel. I think they're revengeful. I think they're a lot of things, including - but not limited to - mislead, loyal, brave, true to their word, and, above all, fighters. (Fighters in the sense that they fight for what they believe in; I don't mean that in a derogatory way, though I'm sure you'll see it as so.) I also stand by my statement that they're not malicious machines. Machines don't have human emotions; they don't hurt or love or hate or anything. Machines just 'do'. Riley and Dexter, if you look closely enough at them throughout the entire story, are complex characters. I could have written this story from their perspectives, actually - and I can still write a story from either one of the perspectives. They're not simpleminded characters or machines. They have their histories just like Spencer has his. Riley and Dexter don't bully Spencer because they're wired to do so. They have pasts, which I won't go into details of because that comes up in future chapters.

 

I need to make a huge correction on my previous statement about the age gap. I apologize for not being accurate when I responded earlier. Between Connor and Spencer is about three years. As long as it's consensual, they're age isn't really an issue. I was incorrect earlier when I said Spencer was thirteen at the time of the 'event'. I didn't look at any of my notes, I just did a quick calculation in my head based off the fact freshmen were fourteen. I just found the notes that I made as I was writing this story. Spencer actually was fourteen at the time of the event as he had reached his fourteenth birthday during the November before the 'event', which occurred in May. His other classmates (Nix, the Hadley twins, Kendall, etc.) where wither going on 15 or were already 15. That was my mistake. Connor (who had also not reached his birthday) was seventeen. Connor wasn't an adult, and Spencer was not as young as I previously estimated him to be. I should have looked before I answered.

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In all and total honesty, I'm a bit taken aback by how aggressive you guys are with the author. This might seem a little messy as I'm not one to usually 'argue', so bare with me.

 

First off, this is the authors story. She/he should really be able to do what they want to do with it in any way. If it came to it, Sunshine should be able to destroy Spencer's life, rip him apart and torture him to death if she wanted to take the story in that direction. Would it be a nice story? No. But clearly right there in the tags and even in the first chapter itself, you can tell this isn't a "rainbow" story. So why are you arguing that this story steps too far into the uncomfortable zone? It's almost like you guys are going into The Human Centipede film KNOWING that it has a R rating, blood, gore and death but expecting it to be comparable to some cliche Disney film. What confuses me even more is that some people believe that this story is completely unbelievable. Though, it's SUPPOSE to be exaggerated, you can't deny that somebody in this world has gone through a few of these things in their life. Be it the staff knowing, not knowing or even including themselves in the act.

 

The other thing that gets me is the attack on the author themselves. Sure, dislike the story and show your dislike to it. Freedom of speech. Now, I'm not sure how many people are actually authors or how attached they get to their stories they get... but no matter how mean or evil my own characters are, I grow to love them all. While I myself can't fathom the idea of anyone liking D&R in the slightest bit, I can understand why the author feels the way they do. She's not the reader and she's not getting the same effect that we are. It's almost like preparing a meal a way you like it and see fit for other people and others not understanding why you made it that way. Even in my own project, there's a character I'm using that I love to pieces. But if I ever met this personality in real life, I wouldn't hesitate to turn the other direction.

 

In the end, it would be nice to see people hold an actual conversation about the stories plot rather than how gross the story is and how mean the characters are. It's a bit annoying to look at this thread and see such long drawn out posts attacking this while I actually like the work and just want to talk about the plot/direction this is going.

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In all and total honesty, I'm a bit taken aback by how aggressive you guys are with the author. This might seem a little messy as I'm not one to usually 'argue', so bare with me.

 

First off, this is the authors story. She/he should really be able to do what they want to do with it in any way. If it came to it, Sunshine should be able to destroy Spencer's life, rip him apart and torture him to death if she wanted to take the story in that direction. Would it be a nice story? No. But clearly right there in the tags and even in the first chapter itself, you can tell this isn't a "rainbow" story. So why are you arguing that this story steps too far into the uncomfortable zone? It's almost like you guys are going into The Human Centipede film KNOWING that it has a R rating, blood, gore and death but expecting it to be comparable to some cliche Disney film. What confuses me even more is that some people believe that this story is completely unbelievable. Though, it's SUPPOSE to be exaggerated, you can't deny that somebody in this world has gone through a few of these things in their life. Be it the staff knowing, not knowing or even including themselves in the act.

 

The other thing that gets me is the attack on the author themselves. Sure, dislike the story and show your dislike to it. Freedom of speech. Now, I'm not sure how many people are actually authors or how attached they get to their stories they get... but no matter how mean or evil my own characters are, I grow to love them all. While I myself can't fathom the idea of anyone liking D&R in the slightest bit, I can understand why the author feels the way they do. She's not the reader and she's not getting the same effect that we are. It's almost like preparing a meal a way you like it and see fit for other people and others not understanding why you made it that way. Even in my own project, there's a character I'm using that I love to pieces. But if I ever met this personality in real life, I wouldn't hesitate to turn the other direction.

 

In the end, it would be nice to see people hold an actual conversation about the stories plot rather than how gross the story is and how mean the characters are. It's a bit annoying to look at this thread and see such long drawn out posts attacking this while I actually like the work and just want to talk about the plot/direction this is going.

 

Thank you! I have been trying to say that forever. Way to go!

 

Smiles,

Holly

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Hi Sunshine

I apologise if any of my posts are annoying or harsh. It is actually a credit to you as until your story i barely ever posted. Your story is really awesome. However it is so emotionally draining i'm compelled to post.

I am a bit stuck on my hatred of Riley and Dexter. I just can't forgive them. Most of us have had some bullying experience at school ( nothing in a million years like this) so it hits home. I think i'm am a little hopeful that i will hate them a lot less at the end of the story. It's likely however that i will feel more hate for them yet because its clear at some point they will push things so far that Nix will be forced to step in.

Cheers sean

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VictoryPanda and *HJ*, Thank you both. I don't know what else to say, but thank you.

 

seanthomas:

 

I don't mind discussing the story or even reading your opinions of the story. I understand that you don't like Riley and Dexter. If they didn't bully Spencer, there wouldn't be much of a story. Though they're definitely not the model citizens, they do play a rather important part in the story.

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I was a bit suprised re-reading the story & reviews that a reviewer described this chapter as a "nice interlude" for Spencer and you agreed describing it as a "breather". This was a chapter where Spencer was found lying out in the cold night in shorts with welts all over his body & a bloodied face. This was a chapter where Porter & friends accelerated their attacks & humiliation. This was the chapter where Dex & Riley ended the reprieve with frequent assaults on Spencer with Nix watching quite a few of the attacks. I agree the violence was described in a less graphic manner. I also agree that Spencer had some happiness with the false friendship fron his " honest & truthful friends" However i definitely didn't see it as a nice interlude or as a breather. Do you think that there is so much violence towards Spencer day & night that we are becoming so blunted by it that it seems ok unless it is graphic. Spencer continues his remarkable resilence to violence both physically &mentally.

I think i may be wrong in the review i gave after this last chapter where i picked the Sunday sleepover as the time for attack by Artie. It is probably to soon in terms of chapters left so i now think it is just another attempt to lull Spencer into a false belief of friendship and the terrible events are still a little way off. Unless of course time moves really slowly over the next few chapters.

Edited by seanthomas
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The chapter you are referring to is Chapter 29: Honest and Truthful Friends. Yes, there were some unfavorable Spencer moments. He was found in freezing cold after being beaten up by his mother's boyfriend. There was reference to Porter's attacks and the end of Riley and Dexter's cease-fire. However, it was a change of pace from the previous two chapters that were the 'reveal' chapters for Nix. Spencer was given the opportunity to be a part of a real family - disregarding Zeke's (possibly horrible) intentions. He also felt what it was like to have 'friends.' As the reader, you know so much more than Spencer. You, at least, suspect that Artie may not be all butterflies and rainbows. Spencer doesn't so for him, this chapter is so much better than many before it. With the exception of the times Nix has been nice to Spencer and stood up to him, Spencer has never felt this much comfort. That's why I think it was a 'breather'. This chapter also didn't jump into any major story lines. It was an interlude between Nix's reveal and the inevitable climax.

 

I don't think the violence against Spencer has become so blunted that it makes it OK. I don't think the violence of this chapter was as surprising as the violence in the previous chapters. You already expected Riley and Dexter's cease-fire to end. Porter bullying Spencer and Carl (Spencer's mother's boyfriend) beating up on Spencer have both been consistent actions throughout the story (or at least for a few chapters). The violence was purposefully not graphic in order to give the illusion that life went on for Spencer.

 

I won't say whether or not you were correct about your timing in the review, as I'm sure you'd rather read for yourself. I will say, though, that there are a few chapters following what I consider the climax of the story. It's such a large piece that I was unable to end the story within a chapter or two following the climax. There are many loose ends that I had to tie up and a few that I had to leave alone, and it would have been impossible to have done all of that in such a condensed amount of space.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.gayauthors.org/story/inthemindofsunshine/theparadoxoffriendship/12

 

 

Porter reached into his deep pockets and produced a long, thin rod. Dexter lowered his eyebrows in question as he examined it.“I swiped it from Dad’s office last night,” Porter replied to Dexter’s unasked question. “It’s got a pretty nasty punch, despite being the most humane one of its kind.”He pressed the small black button on the handle and electricity shot out from the end. Dexter immediately recognized it as the latest handheld taser the local police was trying out. It was not one that shot out electricity but rather one that shocked anything the end came into contact with.

 

Porter brought up the rod and traced the side along Spencer’s jawbone. Spencer jerked his head back, slamming it painfully into the wall in an attempt to get away from the taser. Porter laughed mockingly and touched the tip of the taser three inches below Spencer’s collar bone on his right side.

Spencer writhed in pain and screamed into the tape. Tears, which he had until then succeeded in holding back, fell continuously down his cheeks.

Porter laughed again, removing the taser. He traced it down Spencer’s chest as the younger boy flinched from its touch. Porter turned on the taser, touching it to Spencer’s belly button. Spencer cried out in pain again. Porter continued to hold it for a few seconds until the bell rang

 

 

this is jarringly unrealistic

 

1) tasers wouldnt be left lying around in an office

2) using a taser twice on a small body would in all likelyhood lead to injuries & possibly death

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues

3) someone would have informed staff about a taser being on school premises & being used against a pupil. that would lead to an immediate lockdown & police response.

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I wanted to follow-up some of your comments in the reviews if that is ok.

Dr Willows does seem all sweet & nice a bit like a mum but she acts in a way that is just not possible for a doctor. When she said "adult iterference could harm more than help Spencer " i almost fell out of my chair. That is the most idiotic comment i have ever heard let alone from a medical professional. She should know as a doctor the extreme dangers from this type of bullying. She can't hide behind confidentiality because mandatory laws to report child abuse by doctors is law in most countires. This latest episode of extreme abuse should have sent every warning alarm off possible for her, Spencer had evidence of extreme choking a potentially fatal assault . A real doctor would not have allowed Spencer out of her sight. I'm afraid she would be totally responsible for whatever harm comes to Spencer. It would likely be the end of her career and quite possible land her before the courts.

I also think you let Nix off way to easy when you said in a review that Nix couldn't apologise as he wasn't on speaking terms with Spencer. Nix has now has 3 chances to thank Spencer for saving his life for a second time. He failed at the party & a thank you there may have saved Spencer from the latest assault. He than runs into a shockingly beaten Spencer twice at the hospital and again no thank you and no concern expressed to Spencer for his condition. He didn't need to do anything else,he didn't need to say nothing else. Just a thank you and leave it at that if he can't say anything else. He really is a pathetic excuse for a human being. I really don't know how he can look at himself in the mirror without being sick. I know you are going to say poor, poor Nix he has to sort out his own problems out first. The failure to say thank you or express concern was diabolical. Its almost like he doesn't realise Spencer saved his life a second time because he doesn't even seemed to acknowledge it in his thoughts when he sees Spencer. Its like it didn't happen.

The Willows seem to be "nice" but really pathetic.

Edited by seanthomas
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http://www.gayauthor...offriendship/12

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is jarringly unrealistic

 

1) tasers wouldnt be left lying around in an office

2) using a taser twice on a small body would in all likelyhood lead to injuries & possibly death

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues"]http://en.wikipedia....r_safety_issues

3) someone would have informed staff about a taser being on school premises & being used against a pupil. that would lead to an immediate lockdown & police response.

 

The taser attack by Porter while Dexter & Riley had him tied up was than followed by Dexter & Riley hitting Spencer with furthur sickening blows after the tazer. This was followed up by Dexter & Riley laughing with Porter about what a good team they make.

Nix just looks on & does nothing. This section of the story is where you can never really forgive Dexter, Riley & even Nix.

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I think this is Sunshine's story and her universe. If in that universe the adults are pretty much non-existent (and useless when around), and tasers can be left around and used multiple times, that's how it is in this universe.

 

I don't think any of these people are redeemable either but we'll have to wait and see.

 

...and it goes without saying that if the intent is to make these people bring out the "ick" factor so well (as they do), it's a well written story in its own right. Not all fiction is rainbows and puppies.

Edited by Gene Splicer PHD
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Ian McEwan's novel Cement Garden works on the basis that the childrens'/young adults' world is real because the reader is unrestrained in it - the fact that the 'real world' continues around them like a wrapping also helps. It's the ability to dislocate the reader, without dislocating the reading.

 

As you say, it's not all puppies and rainbows (or unicorns) - and as one agent I knew in the past admitted, Misery not only loves company, it often sells like hot cakes.

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Ian McEwan's novel Cement Garden works on the basis that the childrens'/young adults' world is real because the reader is unrestrained in it - the fact that the 'real world' continues around them like a wrapping also helps. It's the ability to dislocate the reader, without dislocating the reading.

 

As you say, it's not all puppies and rainbows (or unicorns) - and as one agent I knew in the past admitted, Misery not only loves company, it often sells like hot cakes.

 

It's the ability to dislocate the reader, without dislocating the reading.

This, right here, is exactly right. Thank you for saying what I feel, too. And I think Sunshine is doing this very well. Now I'm going to find that "Cement Garden" novel :P

Edited by Gene Splicer PHD
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option:

 

Gene Splicer PHD has already hit on this. I realize that in the real world very little of this story could take place in the manner that it has, but that's the joys of fiction. As an fiction author, you have the ability to create an entirely new world with it's own set of rules and customs and so on; that is what i have done with this story. I never intended to for "The Paradox of Friendship" to take place in the real world; I'm not that sadistic. When I wrote the tasering scene, I didn't do any research on tasers because I didn't want to use a real-world device. I used a taser from the real world as inspiration, but that's about as close as I got with it. I imagine the taser Porter used had different settings, and he had it on either low or medium - a bit of a kick, but no long-lasting effects.

 

Porter used the phrase "swiped" when he explained how the taser came into his possession. That's not necessarily implying the taser was just lying out in the open. I imagined it was locked safely in a drawer or even the gun cabinet. Porter merely picked the lock and took it from his father's office.

 

Why didn't anyone report the taser?/How was Porter able to bully Spencer with it without school personnel stopping him? A reoccurring theme throughout the entire story is the absence of adult interference - whether that be parents, teachers, or doctors. If an adult stepped in every time something happened in this story, there wouldn't be much of a story. These are teenagers. They made the mess. They deserve to clean it up. One should lie in the bed one has made, as the saying goes. Does this mean I'm completely against adult involvement? No, but I wanted the main characters to act without restraint of authority figures.

 

 

seanthomas:

 

I think I may have hit a bit about adult interference already in my reply to option. Where Dr. Willows (or Monica as I will probably refer to her) is concerned, she was not created until later on in the story. Initially, she was sort of a shadow character whose mentioned a couple of times but never makes an appearance. Then I decided to add the 'Epic of Arizona', and once I decided that I realized that I would eventually have to introduce Nix's mother as a character.

 

I wrote this story differently than I usually how I usually write. Other than the fact that I didn't write this in chapter form, everything I wrote stayed in the final draft. Instead of getting so far into the story and then deciding there was a better way to write it, I toughed it out. I didn't go back and add in scenes or delete scenes. In the early days of writing this, I wasn't aware that it would spiral out to be as complex as it ended up being. All of the newer story lines (that is, the story lines in later chapters) are a direct result of the older story lines. You're probably thinking, "Well, yeah. Isn't that how most stories are written?" What I mean is that this draft of "The Paradox of Friendship" is the first and the final draft. There are no alternate beginnings or ends or scenes or anything. What you read is what there is. In my notes, there are some cancelled story lines that never got written down, but that's it. I have went back, after I finished it, and tied somethings together a little neater. I've fixed (hopefully all of) my errors and corrected what needed to be correcting.

 

Why did I tell you this? Because originally, Monica Willows was just an adult figure that Nix lived with. She was always his mom, but I hadn't planned on her being a character. I won't say much about her now, because she'll get her time before the story ends. What I will say is she only has so much power. In the real world, yes, she would have contacted the authorities and all of that long before now. She would have done her due as a doctor and as a parent. But that's not entirely feasible at this point in the story. What if, by telling the police, she makes it worse? What if instead of bullying Spencer, someone kills him? As a doctor and as a parent, she should do something. It doesn't seem like she is doing anything, but looks can be deceiving. There is so much more to Dr. Monica Willows than what has thus far been presented.

 

As for Nix. Lovely Nix. I agree. He should thank Spencer, but he doesn't. In a couple of chapters, Nix will open up more as a character. He's still a bit closed off now. When he does open up, that'll help explain why Nix functions the way he does. At this moment, Nix still believes the worst about Spencer. He's heard Artie's story and Riley/Dexter's story of the 'event'. While the former is a bit sketchy, the latter is from two of his best friends. That may seem a bit petty.

 

Why didn't Nix say thank you in the three moments you mentioned? He was unable to. At the party, he was sick from his allergic reaction. Recall the first allergic reaction Nix had to honey in the story. He was sick for a while and unable to communicate. This time, he was similarly sick though not bed-ridden. Ember and Kendall were encouraging Nix to leave the party when Spencer seen them together as he was being drug up the stairs by Connor. In Monica's office, Nix was too shocked by the bruises and cuts on Spencer's face to do much more than stare. In the cafeteria while Spencer was telling the Epic, Nix sat a good distance away from Spencer and fled before the children left Spencer. He could have made time, yes, but he did not.

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Coming in late to this party - which means I end up with the cider, rather than the classy white wine - however, 'swiped' is slang, and can have a danger of dating - a lot of ID or Credit Cards are swiped and swiped - as in read and nicked.

 

Also, from reading the comment above, Could I suggest you sit down with the material so far and do a full revision of it? Reason for saying that is simple - you say it's been a non-consecutive/non-linear construction, and maybe as you have now started to 'join the dots' more you have a better feel for the overall piece? A revision could well help straighten out any kinks in the storyline, allow you to streamline it/declutter it, spot ticks and repetitives and generally feel more comfortable with the end product.

 

Reason for that comment is that you seem to be recounting backstory/arc material that may well be needed inside the story itself, rather than external explanations.

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Coming in late to this party - which means I end up with the cider, rather than the classy white wine - however, 'swiped' is slang, and can have a danger of dating - a lot of ID or Credit Cards are swiped and swiped - as in read and nicked.

 

Also, from reading the comment above, Could I suggest you sit down with the material so far and do a full revision of it? Reason for saying that is simple - you say it's been a non-consecutive/non-linear construction, and maybe as you have now started to 'join the dots' more you have a better feel for the overall piece? A revision could well help straighten out any kinks in the storyline, allow you to streamline it/declutter it, spot ticks and repetitives and generally feel more comfortable with the end product.

 

Reason for that comment is that you seem to be recounting backstory/arc material that may well be needed inside the story itself, rather than external explanations.

 

The entire story is written in slang. The narration of the dialogue and the overall plot line is native to the region I live in, because it was written first and foremost for me. With that being said, no, I will not do a 'full revision'. "The Paradox of Friendship" has been completed for a long time. If I had felt the need to work out kinks and other miscellaneous items that appear to be inconsistencies, I would have done so long before now. I prefer the 'messy' style it's written in, because it mirrors the overall plot. I wrote it in the way I did purposefully, creating new things as I went along, so that the entire story would be told. The reader does know things ahead of the characters at times, but I always wanted a sense of overall obliviousness to the story. A full revision would do away with the essence of the story. I don't mind external explanations, because that means there is a sense of mysteriousness to the story - that means there is conversation between the story and the reader.

Edited by InTheMindOfSunshine
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Hi Sunshine

In my review this week i could only think of the Max-Hagan link as a possible way for Nix to find & save Spencer. Spencer has for all purposes disappeared without anyone having any idea what happened to him. Of course Artie is relying on that & has worked to isolate Spencer even more than his usual isolation. So i've been considering any other lifelines for Spencer.

1 Its possible one of Artie's gang has second thoughts once he/ she realises how seriously Artie plans to hurt Spencer. The gang may just think he is going to get a serious beating/ fright and someone may become concerned when they realise how serious the harm is to Spencer. ( Zeke and Hagan are the most likely)

2. I also thought Nix might realise it was Colin who bashed Spencer and he may track him down and Colin may tell him that Artie planned it.

3 Ellaysn may approach Nix to apologise and might mention that they were all in the ice cream store.

4. Nix could approach Zeke's home and learn where Zeke is from his brothers.

5 Nix may think more about the Epic story and realise the danger and track down all of Artie's friends.

Out of these other lifelines i think 1, 2 & 5 are the most likely.

However I think the Max-Hagan link is the most likely.

It could be a combination of the above.

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You pose many rather possible avenues, and one or two of those might just be what ends up happening. I won't say anything more specifically, though. ;) I will say that Nix will eventually realize the significance of the Epic and will also take another look at the stories he's thus far heard. Help in any form may just as well come in many unexpected ways. Artie's plan is extremely meticulous, but there are a certain number of variables that have to be just right for him to exceed. The likelihood of *everything* going down as he has planned is very slim, as you have already guessed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would like to see two things at the end of this story. The first is happiness for Spencer & that means Nix despite my reservations about Nix. I'm sort of hoping Monica Willows will either adopt or foster Spencer. He can't go back to any more abuse. The second is justice for Spencer and that means punishment for Artie & gang, Potter & gang, Dexter & Riley, and Colin. All should face some sort of justice even if some come to Spencer's rescue in the end. Now i suspect that Spencer being the forgiving sweet character that we all know would never support any evidence against Riley & Dexter so that gives them an out. Also he can't ask for action against Potter etc without drawing attention to R & D so they will also probably get away. I suppose some of Artie's friends ( ? Hagan, ? Zeke) may yet help him so if that's the case they will get off free even though they are already accomplices to his rape, kidnap & torture. I think Hagan is the most likely to help so he can still end up with Max. Colin and Artie should be put into prison with an almost never to be released sentence. That seems harsh but pack rape in Australia gets 50 yr sentences. Of course his mother & stepfather deserve long prison sentences.

Edited by seanthomas
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The ending of the story will be both satisfactory and unsatisfactory. With a story such as this, it was impossible to have a *perfect* ending. Many characters will get the endings they deserve. I won't say which ones that statement applies to, though. I will say that there are no characters who know every aspect of what has gone on during the story. There are different degrees of justice--not just legal. I don't want to get too specific, because I don't want to give the ending away. Will Monica adopt/foster Spencer? Maybe, maybe not. Will there be jail sentences for everyone who deserves it? Possibly, but then again, possibly not. Will everything immediately be perfect and happy? Nope. Posted Image

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Wow! A little light in this dark tunnel! Thank you for the story. I hope it does not end too soon, too quickly.

 

I'm glad you like the story. There are forty-one chapters planned for this story, and as I have just now posted chapter 34 (not counting the prologue), there are still a few chapters left. It's updated every Tuesday(-ish) so keep a lookout for the new chapters. Posted Image

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I agree with your comment in my review that I would be prudent not to beliitle the stands Trudy, Zeke and Hagan took. I regretted when i re-read my review posting that I hadn't acknowledged their role in saving Spencer's life. I believe Spencer would have died without their actions.

Nevertheless i stand by my other comments I made about them.

1 All 3 were involved in trapping Spencer into this life-threatening situation. They cruelly made him think they were his friends planning to psychologically destroy him when he realised it was just a cruel hoax. Zeke 's role in taking him into his family actively lulled Spencer into ignoring clear warning signs of danger. ( I know it backfired on Artie as Zeke obviously developed some realisation that Spencer was not a monster)

 

2 All 3 were aware of the danger Colin posed to Spencer. They had clear pre-warning with Spencer's obvious horrific face and neck bruising consistent with been choked. Zeke shared his bed with Spencer having these injuries. The rest saw it in the ice cream plaza. One word would have saved him. They all knew it was never going to be " all fun & games "as Trudy stated. They had some idea it would be bad.

3. They allowed Spencer to be tortured & raped for several hours, listening to the blood curdling screams before finally Trudy stood up to Artie. Tolerating someone being tortured for minutes is horrible so allowing it for hours before intervening is unimagineable..

I think it is fair to ask did Trudy only finally intervene because her conscience couldn't cope with screams any longer. If Spencer had been gagged would she have done nothing which would likely led to his death.

I think it is fair to ask would Zeke and Hagan have ever intervened if not for Trudy finding the strength to challenge Artie.

I think it is fair to ask did Hagan intervene because of not just his obvious concern that the torture had gone too far but also did he also become motivated to act because it was clear that if it became known of his role in the torture his relationship with Max as Nix's brother would be untenable.

I think it is fair to ask did any of this three help to restrain Spencer at the start of the torture, tying him up so that Colin could rape and torture him. I think this is a really crucial question. I would suspect really strongly that Zeke and Hagan at least initially helped restrain Spencer than left the room.

I think it is fair to ask if any of this 3 were involved in the Potter assaults. Did they personally liase with Potter over the assaults.

All 3 have some guilt in the criimes of kidnap, torture and rape, Now in the real world a judge would consider very favourably their eventual assistance in his escape and any evidence they could help provide in the prosecution of the other 4. So they may well get non-custodial sentences like a bond but they would still be found guilty of lesser crimes.

I suppose in the end i am saying that while they did a very good thing because they saved Spencer's life at the same time they did a serious of awfully bad things which contributed to Spencer's rape & torture (and of course led to the threat to his life) and this needs to be kept in perspective. Spencer will wear the scars emotionally & physically forever.

Edited by seanthomas
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It is true that Trudy, Zeke, and Hagan all played a part in trapping Spencer in the life-threatening situation. They did lull him into a false sense of security on Artie's orders. They were aware of some of the danger Collin posed, but not all of it. They may have seen the bruises and the scratches and so forth, but that does not immediately mean they drew the conclusion that Collin had inflicted them. Spencer did not spend the next day with them (as he is obviously without them at the hospital). They could have easily assumed Spencer had a run-in with Riley and Dexter or with Porter. You said 'one word would have saved him', and it did--it just took a while for that word to be spoken. Artie was smart enough to keep his cards close to his chest and not put too much trust on any one person.

 

Yes, they did wait several hours before speaking up, but there are two things I want to point out about that. Number one, Spencer wasn't screaming the entire time. It's just that he was screaming at the 'right' times for the narration to cover it. Number two, which is probably more important that number one, it's not smart to look at their (as in Trudy, Hagan, and Zeke) situation from Spencer's point of view. They've been friends with Artie for a length of varying time. They've followed his lead without question for that entire time. They've never questioned Artie, because they've not yet had a reason to. They trusted him, much like Spencer trusted them all. Trudy said she thought they were just scaring Spencer, and that carries more weight than at first glance. She, and the other two, were under the impression that Artie would put an end to it himself after a little while. It would still have been a horrible offense, but they didn't imagine it would carry on as it did. By speaking up, Trudy and Zeke and Hagan shifted the balance of power away from Artie. They started questioning him. They started distrusting him. They chose Spencer--a boy they'd only known for a few weeks--over Artie--a boy they'd been friends with for a long time.

 

None of this, of course, excuses their actions. They did do wrong. It does, however, differentiate them from Artie. They saw the error of their ways and changed that.

 

As for whether or not Zeke or Hagan would have spoken up had Trudy not, I'm reluctant to answer that now. I believe that that is answered later on, and a little uncertainty is a good thing every once in a while. Also, I don't want to address Hagan's motive, because that will be revealed later on as well. It could be that he done it just to save his relationship with Max, or it could be a whole other reason.

 

I don't think it's explicitly stated in the narration, but Collin and Artie were the only two who entered the room Spencer was in. Zeke, Trudy, and Hagan would not have been able to tie Spencer up because they would have realized exactly what was going to take place. (Recall Trudy's reaction when she opened the door to the room Spencer was in.)

 

I'm not going to comment on the Porter issue or the technical/legal stuff now either. I'll let those simmer.

 

Trudy, Zeke, and Hagan played their part (both knowingly and unknowingly) in destroying Spencer's life. That is true. There was a lot of scarring from the entire ordeal to Spencer and even to the others. This isn't something that anyone is going to bounce back from instantly. It will take time for the wounds to heal over enough for anyone to move past this. (I am in no way implying that anyone will ever truly get over what has happened.)

 

I also don't want to comment on whether or not there will be another climax... I'll let that be a surprise. Posted Image

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