Question: Aspergers and CT shooting

[harcallard]

I use to take great offense when my friend and others who suffer from Aspergers wouldn't want to have anything to do with me. I would take it personally.. I suppose looking back, I might have scared them off by pushing to hard and fast. I tend to have an out going and strong personality. I found out that many who suffer from this, are quite the opposite. I soon realized this and I don't take it to heart. I don't mean any disrespect, but I finally came to the conclusion that they are who they are and I am who I am. We should except each other for who we are and never look down on the other. 

[layla]

My 15 year old son was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders, and while he does enjoy video games, and sometimes can get really into them, he also played Hockey as a child, played football all through Jr. high and now wrestles on his high school wrestling team. in addition, he is a martial arts student at the local studio, a member of 4H and an avid photographer who plans to major in photography in college. He loves cars, is learning to play guitar, and passed his hunter's safety course so he could start bow hunting. While socially, sometimes he may not always get a joke when it's made and in class may require more time, he has made the B honor role in the past, and works hard to do his best in his classes. He's learned woodworking and welding while in school, and enjoys anything hands on he can do in terms of building and creating. In other words, he has found many interests and defies those who try to imply that he cannot learn something just because it might take him longer to catch on. I think it is important to remember that there are all kinds of people with autism and that describing them a "people" or a "class of people" is as wrong as trying to put a label of "class" or "type" to any person or group.

[Graeme]

Layla, I remember it being repeated several times by people who work with kids on the autism spectrum (including Asperger's):

If you know one kid with an autism spectrum disorder, you know one kid with an autism spectrum disorder.

It's a spectrum, and there is a wide degree of variation amongst the kids on the spectrum. I remember meeting two kids (at different times), both diagnosed with autism, and one was socially outgoing and interactive, while the other was shy and would hide away from people he didn't know. I personally know of two kids with Asperger's where one has extremely strong and easily discernable traits, while the other I didn't have any idea until their parents told me. I know of a work colleague with a son who has Asperger's who has told me that his son is effectively unemployable - while his anxiety levels are usually kept under control with medication, he can still have major anxiety attacks to the point of needing hospitalisation.

I mentioned earlier about special interests. I may be misremembering, but Professor Tony Attwood's son has Asperger's, and his special interest was drugs... because it was after being introduced to drugs that, for the first time, he experienced not being at a high pitch of anxiety all the times. But because of the tendency to want to know everything about their special interest, he experimented with a wide variety of drugs and he's now an addict and unemployable.

On the other hand, there are many examples of people with Asperger's going on to become major contributor's in their chosen field of endeavour. One famous one (in Asperger circles) is Dr Temple Grandin, who has written several books on the subject of Asperger's as well as making major contributions in animal welfare.

A list from Wikipedia of "famous" people with ASD diagnoses.

This other list contains some very, very well known names, but I should warn that many of these have not been officially diagnosed (and since some, like Sir Isaac Newton, Mark Twain and Thomas Jefferson, are long dead, will never be diagnosed). I suspect some of these are wishful thinking on the part of autism activists, but it shows you how common the symptoms of ASD can be.

So there's a wide spread in both aptitudes and professions. Layla, I wish your son all the best. It sounds like he's someone who's learn to overcome challenges

Edited December 20, 2012 by Graeme

[NotNoNever]

My 15 year old son was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders, and while he does enjoy video games, and sometimes can get really into them, he also played Hockey as a child, played football all through Jr. high and now wrestles on his high school wrestling team. in addition, he is a martial arts student at the local studio, a member of 4H and an avid photographer who plans to major in photography in college. He loves cars, is learning to play guitar, and passed his hunter's safety course so he could start bow hunting. While socially, sometimes he may not always get a joke when it's made and in class may require more time, he has made the B honor role in the past, and works hard to do his best in his classes. He's learned woodworking and welding while in school, and enjoys anything hands on he can do in terms of building and creating. In other words, he has found many interests and defies those who try to imply that he cannot learn something just because it might take him longer to catch on. I think it is important to remember that there are all kinds of people with autism and that describing them a "people" or a "class of people" is as wrong as trying to put a label of "class" or "type" to any person or group.

Oh Layla, I love you! Someone who understands and sees the achievements of what a person can do, not what they haven't achieved like some fancy university education. I do woodwork and I learned to weld in college - though I was good at gas welding, but rubbish at arc welding. Furthermore, he sounds like somebody who learns by doing, rather than in theory. I have the same way of learning.

 

I do disagree about the classification thing a little though. We need a touchstone to be understood under. Some call it a label and hate it. Others, like Gene Splicer above for instance, see it as a way of explaining their differences. That's my take on it. I firmly believe disclosure is the only way to expect some acceptance of difference. It's a bit difficult to make adjustments when you're disliking somebody on the basis that they are NT.

 

The differences are something that cannot be overcome, by and large. A boss of mine once said that disabled people need understanding, but they have a responsibility to try to fit in themselves. I can tell you I was utterly livid. If there is one thing I know, it is that I spend massive amounts of time and energy trying to fit in as it is. Her comment was extremely patronising and completely off mark. I was quite interested in Gene's comment that he had worked at stuff over the last couple of years. I'm not sure I totally believe in that concept, although I absolutely believe it is possible. If someone can do that, more power to them. It doesn't work for me, though. But the availability of help to people to do that as been proven to work, especially in relation to faceblindness and eye contact.

[NotNoNever]

Layla, I remember it being repeated several times by people who work with kids on the autism spectrum (including Asperger's):If you know one kid with an autism spectrum disorder, you know one kid with an autism spectrum disorder.

Graeme, that's a great quote, and one of the best ways I've ever heard it put. I've always said that the variation in autism or Aspergers is a character set as broad as the character set found in the ordinary human population. Typicality, though, is a very great difficulty, because we do need it as a concept. That said, I think that the Aspergers industry has been largely responsible for the over typicalisation because the way stuff is written very often is not insistent enough about trait variation and trait breadth.

 

Even Tony Attwood and Simon Baron Cohen are somewhat responsible in this. But Tony Attwood has a great way of starting his main book, saying that if you put a child with Aspergers in a room and close the door, they don't have Asperger's. Interesting way to think about the world.

[JamesSavik]

I'm still having trouble buying an Aspie as the shooter.

 

I've never heard of them being violent. They withdraw- they avoid people.

 

There's so much confusion over this case and contradictory information.

 

I am beginning to wonder.

[NotNoNever]

I think the point Graeme and I have been making is that an aspie is probably no different in this respect to an NT. If something goes wrong, which it pretty much has to have had, then aspies are just as likely to go wrong as anybody else.

[hh5]

Below is an article spoke about the mother's need for affection from her children.

 

Look I didn't press for a friendship with my korean friends sister. Looking back, she was very good person in her own way. 

I had not seen her in a bad mood ever. Her family does what they can to keep her socially active rather than to let her isolate herself.

When my korean friend and I visit her from time to time ... she remembered me ... she even said hi

We did some sort of activity with her ... I forgot what it was ... but we all respected each other

It was a very normal visit

The lesson I saw ... we're there for them to make sure they have a normal healthy life as best as they can manage

Sure I bet the family wish this burden was lighter ... but I notice the mother found the strength in her belief in god

Perhaps its about being a big brother or a big sister ... its about them ... not us ... its about servicing them

 

As for Adam Lanza, we don't know how the parents helped him in his developmental years in regards to showing affection.

We don't know what the doctors ordered as a plan of care for Adam and how much the mother ignored the plan.

There is an article that speaks about putting her son in some sort of care program and Adam got upset about it.

Another article states that Adam wasn't the same after the divorce ... we don't know what the mother did to influence her son to shut his father and brother out of his life and progressively shut other people out of his life. Home schooling I dear say made things worst.

I bet the mother ignored doctors recommendations.

 

Friend of the family Rich Collins who drank in a bar with Adam Lanza's mother Nancy said she found it hard to deal with her son's inability to express affection.

'She would get very upset that he wouldn’t let her hug him,' said Mr Collins. 

'She was proud of the boys, but she would get upset about Adam not being affectionate,' he told the New York Post.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249185/Nancy-Lanza-Did-paranoid-gun-crazed-mother-trigger-Sandy-Hook-Connecticut-killing-spree.html#ixzz2FebI1S2P 

 

 

I use to take great offense when my friend and others who suffer from Aspergers wouldn't want to have anything to do with me. I would take it personally.. I suppose looking back, I might have scared them off by pushing to hard and fast. I tend to have an out going and strong personality. I found out that many who suffer from this, are quite the opposite. I soon realized this and I don't take it to heart. I don't mean any disrespect, but I finally came to the conclusion that they are who they are and I am who I am. We should except each other for who we are and never look down on the other. 

[Rilbur]

HH5, it's starting to get a bit offensive now. It looks more like you're looking for a way to demonise him, rather than understand.

 

As a high-functioning individual with Asperger's, I crossed the line to 'offended' about the first page of this thread, to be honest.  Actually, a few steps past merely 'offended'.

 

I understand where hh5 is coming from, he needs explanations -- he needs something he can point a finger at.  And he needs it now.

 

I find that almost -- almost -- as offensive as where he's putting that finger.  Whatever his emotional need, his responsibility as a thinking human being is to step past that and recognized that the truth takes time.

 

I'm still having trouble buying an Aspie as the shooter.

 

I've never heard of them being violent. They withdraw- they avoid people.

 

There's so much confusion over this case and contradictory information.

 

I am beginning to wonder.

 

I can buy it.  As others have repeated, Asperger's is a very broad label for a very broad spectrum of difficulties.  There's a reason it's called the autistic spectrum: autism really does come in all shapes and sizes.

 

Aspie's may be relatively introverted, but that doesn't mean we aren't just as capable of lashing out at others.

 

That said, you're right: there is confusion.  There is contradictory information.  That's why I find HH5's need for immediate answers to be offensive...  Maybe threatening would be the better word, but both apply.  It's as threatening as it is offensive.

 

It's going to take time for the truth to come out.  And even with the addition of time, there is no guarantee we'll ever understand this tragedy.  People probably don't want to hear that, but it's the unfortunate truth that the human mind is an incredibly complex mechanism that we barely even begin to understand.  The only source of sure answers died when he shot himself.  Our next best source of information might -- might -- have been his mother.  Also dead.

 

Until we have that truth, grasping at vague straws and trying to make it the truth is useless.  Dangerous.  Threatening.  Yes, threatening.  What is next on the finger-pointer's list?  The fact that I like violent video games?  The fact that I like guns?  The fact that I like military (read: violent) sci-fi?

 

Perhaps I'm going a bit overboard here, but I've needed to make this point since I saw someone say 'we have to do something to stop these kinds of things in the future'.  That's incredibly, incredibly frightening to me, because I share one hell of a lot of the same 'markers' people like to single out as warning signs.  I 'suffer' from Asperger's, I like violent video games, I like guns, I like violent movies... the list goes on.  Am I going to be locked up because some idiot, some complete and utter moron wanted an easy answer?

 

I reassure myself every day that society can't be quite that stupid, but...  that reassurance is thin comfort to someone with even a thin veneer of history education.  Not to mention an appreciation for modern politics (and how it really treats science).

[NotNoNever]

Lordy, there seems to be a real group of us on here!

[Rilbur]

Lordy, there seems to be a real group of us on here!

 

This just in!  There appears to be a distinct correlation between Ausperger's Syndrome and being a gay author (or reader)!

 

...  I shouldn't joke, but there are people who really would run with that as if it were 'real' science.  (And it's just those types of idiots that scare me the most, to be honest... the ones who don't understand the difference between correlation and causation)

[Graeme]

Rilbur, thanks for your input. It's really appreciated. An aside, my sons have spent a big chunk of their summer holidays so far playing military computer games (mainly World For Tanks, which I understand to be a simulator using WWII tanks). Neither is violent, though - I'd hate for either one to be considered a threat to society simply because of the games they play.

 

However, I need to put my moderator hat back on for a moment:

 

No discussion of politics, please.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Graeme

[NotNoNever]

This just in!  There appears to be a distinct correlation between Ausperger's Syndrome and being a gay author (or reader)!

 

...  I shouldn't joke, but there are people who really would run with that as if it were 'real' science.  (And it's just those types of idiots that scare me the most, to be honest... the ones who don't understand the difference between correlation and causation)

Ahah! Well, I spent quite a bit of time of the Aspies For Freedom site a couple of years back. Turns out there is a slightly increased incidence of homosexuality among aspies. I'm not sure if there is any real notion why, but I could speculate all day long about it. Put that together with online forums being somewhat easier for people who have less verbal dexterity and interpersonal skills, and you are actually putting a chink of light in there. Although I do agree with you, but I can't say what with

[hh5]

Isn't part of the issue if the person prone to criminal behavior?

 

'I am the devil': Former classmate reveals school gunman had 'online devil worshiping page' as childhood barber recounts how he never spoke and just stared at floors
 
The Sandy Hook gunman worshiped the devil and had an online page dedicated to Satan, a former classmate revealed, as his childhood barber recalls Adam Lanza never spoke and would stare at the floor every time he had his hair cut.
Lanza's worshiping page had the word 'Devil' written in red, Gothic-style letters against a black background, Trevor L. Todd told The National Enquirer, something which he said was 'weird' and 'gave him the chills'.  
The FBI are trying to piece together his smashed up hard drive to see if his online footprint will reveal any motive for the killing, but they strongly believe he made use of devil-worshiping and suicide sites and boasted of his murder plans on message forums.
Adam Lanza's childhood barber Bob Skuba revealed today that Nancy Lanza stopped bringing her son in for haircuts a few years ago so he thought he had moved away from the area.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250608/Adam-Lanzas-classmate-reveals-Sandy-Hook-gunman-online-devil-worshiping-page.html#ixzz2FiSxWmbr 
 
 

 
 Paul Cooijmans stated years ago:

 

"Several percent of those with Asperger's disorder become psychotic or schizophrenic later on, and with more refined diagnostic criteria this percentage may turn out to be somewhat higher. Although rare, a psychotic development is therewith several times more likely in these persons than in the general population."

"I believe that both high levels of stress and the use of certain recreational drugs may cause psychosis in Aspergoid persons."

"In reality, Asperger syndrome is a severe handicap which makes life very much harder than it would be for a person of the same intelligence without the condition. It is always hard to express the severity of a handicap, but a safe guess is that Asperger is on par with for instance missing both legs (not just one) or with being completely blind (not just having very bad eyesight). In any case, the severity of the handicap is underestimated in popular publications about Asperger syndrome."

Disagree with Cooijmans, if you want to, but admit that he was right on target
so far as Adam Lanza was concerned.
Source(s):
Straight talk about Asperger syndrome
www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/straight…

 
 

http://www.autismuk.com/?page_id=1133
Asperger’s Disorder and Criminal Behavior: Forensic-Psychiatric Considerations
 
Differential Diagnosis
Persons affected by hfASDs may partially compensate for some of their deficits as they grow into adulthood.24 Not infrequently, adults with hfASDs are misdiagnosed with cluster A Personality Disorders, in part because clinicians are more familiar with these constructs. Lack of adequate developmental history, especially with regard to narrow interests and poor peer relationships, may preclude consideration of hfASD. Therefore, an important consideration for the differential diagnosis of hfASD involves Schizoid and Schizotypal Disorders. Moreover, for both Schizoid and Schizotypal Personality Disorder, DSM-IV-TR advises that these diagnoses should not be made if the criteria for an hfASD are met.2 The available literature strongly suggests that many cases of Schizoid Personality Disorder meet criteria for Asperger’s Disorder. Wolff goes so far as to propose that the term “Schizoid/Asperger Disorder” emphasizes the close relatedness of Schizoid Personality Disorder to AD.25 A recent study indicates that Schizoid and Schizotypal Personality Disorders are essentially indistinguishable from each other.26 By extension, this study in combination with earlier literature documenting the close relation between Schizoid Personality Disorder and AD,25 suggests that Schizotypal Personality psychopathology is also likely to correlate highly with AD psychopathology. This view is partially supported by DSM-IV-TR in that the latter recognizes that the presence of hfASD precludes a diagnosis not only of Schizoid Personality Disorder, but also of Schizotypal Personality Disorder.2

[hh5]

Sure I know it takes time for the truth come out ... the discussion is our own investigation

The discussion will not be definitive because none of us are criminologist, CSI, or forensics experts.

We're sharing our thoughts as to help each other understand the truth that's out there

 

The discussion is difficult because it requires us to see beyond our beliefs and understanding

Just think about it ... how many of us would really watch a documentary (about murders, serial killers, etc) or CourtTV

very few ( among the few are the ones who like to learn to do the crime better)

 

Any one watch the TV series  Alcatraz

Noticed that series stopped after the 12th episode

 

Rilbur gave us a the sort of illustration of Minority Reports (Tom Cruise) movie

 

He is saying that there is a possibility of FALSE POSITIVE

Sure it can happen ... but its the experts that have to ring out the kink in their detection of a potential serial killer, etc

 

Yes its debatable about violent games ... 

but its message is quite clear ...

it depends upon how mature one is to play them and to know that acting out the violence in public is unacceptable

 

remember violence and war changes people ... in most cases it for the worst

 

if you can realized its just a thrill and its a game ... its entertainment ,,, the makers - reoccurring income

   then possible you're someone who can handle the addiction

 

Human beings can get easily addicted to things like games ....

violent games decreases social skills ... it increases the possibility of hostility ...

not every one can take the violence ... peer pressure is the worst thing

 

the big issues is about what parts of the brain that a violent game stimulates in the brain

when the brain is hyper-stimulated in a certain way ... higher functions are disabled

the person is possibly open to be reprogrammed or behavior is predictable

 

there is a lacking in people that play violent games 

they will not play constructive games ...

because it doesn't feed their addiction nor hyper-stimulates their minds

 

the reason behind playing some healthy games is to exercise the mind to a more normal function

 

Rilbur, thanks for your input. It's really appreciated. An aside, my sons have spent a big chunk of their summer holidays so far playing military computer games (mainly World For Tanks, which I understand to be a simulator using WWII tanks). Neither is violent, though - I'd hate for either one to be considered a threat to society simply because of the games they play.

 

However, I need to put my moderator hat back on for a moment:

 

No discussion of politics, please.

Edited December 22, 2012 by hh5

[Graeme]

Ahah! Well, I spent quite a bit of time of the Aspies For Freedom site a couple of years back. Turns out there is a slightly increased incidence of homosexuality among aspies. I'm not sure if there is any real notion why, but I could speculate all day long about it. Put that together with online forums being somewhat easier for people who have less verbal dexterity and interpersonal skills, and you are actually putting a chink of light in there. Although I do agree with you, but I can't say what with

Can I suggest that people with Asperger's tend to be more honest than the average neurotypical, and as such are more likely to acknowledge their homosexuality to others than would be the norm. That would explain the slight increase you noticed without requiring Asperger's to have any link to sexual orientation.

 

there is a lacking in people that play violent games 

they will not play constructive games ...

because it doesn't feed their addiction nor hyper-stimulates their minds

Again, an unjustified generalisation. My boys love their violent games (World for Tanks, Team Fortress 2), but they also enjoy playing one of the best constructive computer games around: Minecraft. My youngest son created a special Minecraft presentation for his class for their end-of-year break up (and he's only 11). He loves both types of games.

 

Playing violent games does not preclude playing constructive games as well.

[Rilbur]

Rilbur, thanks for your input. It's really appreciated. An aside, my sons have spent a big chunk of their summer holidays so far playing military computer games (mainly World For Tanks, which I understand to be a simulator using WWII tanks). Neither is violent, though - I'd hate for either one to be considered a threat to society simply because of the games they play.

 

However, I need to put my moderator hat back on for a moment:

 

No discussion of politics, please.

 

My apologies; I didn't really think that my appreciation of how politics works would 'cross the line' into being considered political discussion -- I thought that rule was aimed at avoiding left vs right (liberal/conservative, etc) discussions.

 

I'd like to further apologize for what was an overreaction; as much as I accuse others of thinking with their emotions, sometimes I do it to.  The thing is, that type of over generalization really does scare me -- and I react like any typical human being to fear:  run in circles, scream and shout.  So, my apologies for a little bit of lashing out.

[hh5]

<p>mmm constructive games ... like baseball ... soccer ... dancing, etc something off the computer</p>
<p>also helping out the parents or the community or shopping</p>
<p> </p>
<p>my korean friends sister is encouraged to do things that keeps her mindful of the people around her</p>
<p>not 24x7 computer and twitter and chatting</p>
<p> </p>
<p>my brother says hardly any kids use the play grounds or the ball fields</p>
<p>you can have a family come to a party and notice that their all on their smartphones</p>
<p>they would tweet each other rather than actually talk to each other</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/297">http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/297</a></p>
<p>this is an article about violent games from Dr Phil ... even following guidlines that game companies make their games ... its up to you to moderate their usage and their activities under your roof</p>
<p> </p>
<p>violent games ... shooting people ... raping people ... using the knife to kill the oppenent ... how to jack a car ... getting a goth tattoo etc ...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>games that teach like a submarine, or strategic battle ... its not that bad ... unless the kid loves carnage and romances the death of his victims ... romancing the general things about the military is healthy ... its just a what-if ... some games give the kid some knowledge of what they want to be ... like seeing what a policeman does ... what a lawyer does ... etc ... getting involved in constuctive things like making things like art, writing, etc</p>
<p> </p>
<p>look my bro got the message from his wife regarding their sons marks in school ... it was about biology and pre-calc class ... it appears that there is a high expectation to do well ... the kids get the help they need in school ... much more than I did and much better ... my main concern is that both parties aren't listening or speaking to each other ... like if the parent says only one hour of play and the boy plays three hours ... the boy isn't using his time effienctly ...</p>
<p>both parties need to see what is happening ... the parents need to see things beyond anger</p>
<p> </p>
<p>as long as you know your kids well enough if they can truly take the violent games ... sometimes some games have more cross over of the boundaries on rating ... games have parents review ... in the old days ... the games we played were not as violent ... as long as parents we made sure they knew its a game ... but the kids played with other kids for real ... they saw the real time effect of the consequence of their actions because of going overboard ... in video games there is no moderation like that ... some don't realize there is a real person on the otherside of the game </p>
<p> </p>
<p>the other issue of online video games is the chat feature .. predators and peer pressure ... it seems that is worst than the old days of playing games</p>
<p> </p>
<p>some parents don't check the rating or the kids get their hands on games that they are not suppose to get ... sometimes they play at their friends games ... whos parent lets them to have the higher rating games ... some kids may share the online access codes to more violent games or they find out through forums and game sites</p>
<p> </p>
<p>there is a lacking of games that teaches real humanity ... that was something that the scouts provided ... sports ... and other activities ... but when kids get into the wrong things ... those things can changed them ... the developmental years are important ... for when they are in high school most of their personality is there ... then you will see the beginnings of who they will be that you may not like</p>
<p> </p>
<p>knowing who your kids are is important ... it helps you teach who they will become ... my old land lords kid ... he has a nose for trouble because of middle son jealously ... I missed out his teen years ... but I bet that high school and more responsibilities help straighten out the middle son jealously ... he's now thirty ... and in the acting business ... he reach the goal that many of the boys talked about years ago ... it was a matter of whom would be an actor, or an accountant, etc ... years ago ... he liked to bully his brother ... or on the first day of little league ... to intend to have a fight with another kid ... but never think about the consequences .... but since I was moderating him at the time ... I used the smarts to keep both boys from attacking each other like young bulls ... it worked and it was the smart thing to do ... if their own parent were to moderate ... either they let the fight happen or the father issues abusive punishment ... I did see partly this boy growing up in his teens ... sometimes he's responsible and sometimes he's very selfish to the point that he is abusive to other people ... perhaps in time he's learn that lesson or maybe not ... but now he is a man ... he's learn to be in the acting business and earn a living ... his parents are supportive ... much like they are with their older son ... i hope he never had the lesson of unwanted teen pregnancy/</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Graeme" data-cid="396559" data-time="1356141614"> Again, an unjustified generalisation. My boys love their violent games (World for Tanks, Team Fortress 2), but they also enjoy playing one of the best constructive computer games around: Minecraft. My youngest son created a special Minecraft presentation for his class for their end-of-year break up (and he's only 11). He loves both types of games.<br />
<br />
Playing violent games does not preclude playing constructive games as well.</blockquote>

[hh5]

Rilbur ... its fine by your Rilber comments ... I think we get surprised but it gives us exercise to hear what you are trying to say ... so we try to make intelligent reads to what you're sharing with us

 

your share about the false positive is a concern ... but there is a difference between Rilbur n Lanza and that's what the experts need to get good at

 

perhaps in time we will learn if Lanza had a sickness as mentioned above articles ... or didn't really have aspergers ... or had a personality disorder ... there is indication his life wasn't perfectly normal ... his mother wasn't the perfect mother ... the parents was not caring about how the divorce hurt their son ... the son got into devil or goth stuff ... the mother and other people saw changes ... was it wise to share a violent hobby with a disturbed son ... why the father n brother not trying to keep relationship with their son ... perhaps the mother is the obstacle ... we don't know what the divorce was about ... the father gave more than 50% of his rev to the care of his son .. but he is behind one years payment ... the question is why ... perhaps he doesn't like what the mother is doing with the money ... that not all of it was in the care of their son ... the mother wasn't doing anything to keep her son from isolating himself ... why does the mother was the son to totally rely on her ... was this incident a backlash to prove he can take care of himself ... lots of questions

 

I guess in these questions ... there is a difference between Rilbur and Lanza ... there is a difference between Lanza and anyone else

 

Graeme was giving all of us a general warning ... thats his job ... nothing u did was wrong unless u did get into politics ... he would point that out in a heart beat

My apologies; I didn't really think that my appreciation of how politics works would 'cross the line' into being considered political discussion -- I thought that rule was aimed at avoiding left vs right (liberal/conservative, etc) discussions.

 

I'd like to further apologize for what was an overreaction; as much as I accuse others of thinking with their emotions, sometimes I do it to.  The thing is, that type of over generalization really does scare me -- and I react like any typical human being to fear:  run in circles, scream and shout.  So, my apologies for a little bit of lashing out.

[Bumblebee]

 

perhaps in time we will learn if Lanza had a sickness as mentioned above articles ... or didn't really have aspergers ... or had a personality disorder ... there is indication his life wasn't perfectly normal ... his mother wasn't the perfect mother ... the parents was not caring about how the divorce hurt their son ... the son got into devil or goth stuff ... the mother and other people saw changes ... was it wise to share a violent hobby with a disturbed son ... why the father n brother not trying to keep relationship with their son ... perhaps the mother is the obstacle ... we don't know what the divorce was about ... the father gave more than 50% of his rev to the care of his son .. but he is behind one years payment ... the question is why ... perhaps he doesn't like what the mother is doing with the money ... that not all of it was in the care of their son ... the mother wasn't doing anything to keep her son from isolating himself ... why does the mother was the son to totally rely on her ... was this incident a backlash to prove he can take care of himself ... lots of questions

 

I guess in these questions ... there is a difference between Rilbur and Lanza ... there is a difference between Lanza and anyone else

 

You can't treat someone who had Aspergers the same as someone else who has Aspergers. I personally don't think this guy had Aspergers, but tbh I haven't really cared much about him nor his victims or followed anything about this shooting, simply because it doesn't interest me. But I've been half reading this topic and have decided to comment.

 

You seem particularly interested in someone who killed school children, because of this dare I say obsession or fixation you have of Lanza, does that mean you would feel inclined to follow in his footsteps? To see if you feel compelled by this act of violence to see if you get the same feelings as Lanza?

Just curious because reading and maybe fantasising about this or other shootings may compel you (or others) to act them out, just like you're suggesting 'violent' video games make loners want to steal cars and kill prostitutes in the hope to make some friends.

 

Who's life is 'perfectly normal'? There's various degrees of normality and really parents divorcing is becoming the new normal. If every child who's parents divorced became murderers then there'd be millions of these sorta killings.

 

The parents may not have cared about how the divorce may hurt him? Most children get upset when their parents divorce, I would have thought they'd get upset at either parents or blame themselves. But then again this guy was in his 20s right? He should have had some sort of reasoning that hey maybe this isn't about me, as I'm sure his parents told him that.

 

Isn't the American economy sill pretty bad? Could that be the reason why the father was behind in payments?

 

You can't force someone to socialise, and being a social retard is more likely to have that person just kill themselves, rather then go into a space around hundreds of people and watched kill others.

[MikeL]

Just what was responsible for Adam Lanza's  murderous assault on Sandy Hook Elementary School?

 

          Asperger's syndrome

 

          Guns and lax gun laws

 

          Anti-psychotic drugs which make a condition worse

 

Here are three articles everyone should read:

 

           New York Magazine: Asperger’s Is a Red Herring to Explain the Newtown Massacre  (See Editor's Note at bottom of article)

 

          Natural Society: Predictions Confirmed: MSM Says Shooter Adam Lanza Was on Violence-Linked Anti-Psychotic Fanapt

          Drugs.com:  Fanapt Side Effects

 

 

                      Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.

 

 

Of course we may never know.  Asperger's advocates, gun control advocates, the gun lobby, and pharmaceutical companies all have their own interests to protect and their own means of controlling the discussion.

Edited December 22, 2012 by MikeL

[hh5]

Thanks mikel - I'll keep this under motives n explanations
 
alot of non-mainstream news articles say the uncle reports lanza was prescribe the drug.fanapt
 
but none of the near mainstream picked up this story yet ... so I be wary on the word confirmed
I searched the Daily news for fanapt and turned up nothing
 
Its sounds crazy that a doctor would prescribe such a drug that didn't have proper approval and test history
I checked CNN and CNBC for example and nothing comes up with fanapt lanza
 
The initial findings of the investigators said he wasn't taking any drugs (as of last weekend)
 
I'm always weary about prescribe medications ... I watch over my elderly mother when she changed from her set of drugs to generics
she did developed a symptom and I'm glad I spotted it and eventually something was done about it 
 
If the fanapt were the case, It seems that lanza mother may not have understood that she has to be weary about the drugs her son was on
   the media reports that the mother complained about mood changes of her son and was prepared to put him into some program

thanks for the advisory about advocates ... it did hinder a clear discussion ... for years ...  according to one of the news channels
until now ... we can hope all voices can be heard this time around and things could be straighten out
each of the advocates can be a lengthy discussion in itself and their influences are deep in our society
 
 

 
Just what was responsible for Adam Lanza's  murderous assault on Sandy Hook Elementary School?
 
          Asperger's syndrome
 
          Guns and lax gun laws
 
          Anti-psychotic drugs which make a condition worse
 
Here are three articles everyone should read:
 
           New York Magazine: Asperger’s Is a Red Herring to Explain the Newtown Massacre  (See Editor's Note at bottom of article)
 
          Natural Society: Predictions Confirmed: MSM Says Shooter Adam Lanza Was on Violence-Linked Anti-Psychotic Fanapt

          Drugs.com:  Fanapt Side Effects
 

 
 

 
Of course we may never know.  Asperger's advocates, gun control advocates, the gun lobby, and pharmaceutical companies all have their own interests to protect and their own means of controlling the discussion.

 
here is an article 
 

playtime_in_den_of_doom
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/playtime_in_den_of_doom_vYB2VlXSBEW8Di7pMo1leJ
 
For hours on end, alone in his windowless basement den, Adam Lanza studied photos of guns and obliterated virtual victims in violent video games — until the virtual became a reality.
Lanza, 20, especially liked “Call of Duty” — a wartime role-playing game where participants use high-powered assault rifles, machine guns and other weapons to slaughter scores of people, according to a published report.
And the basement walls were covered with military- and weaponry-themed posters, said one of the home’s few visitors.
"The kids could tell you about guns they had never seen from the 40s, 50s and 60s,”

 

I heard that the mother;s gun collection was also in the basement

I dear say that this is not a healthy environment nor a good hobby to take up

A social worker would normally not allow this and could see the apparent danger

Edited December 22, 2012 by hh5

[MikeL]

A.  but none of the near mainstream picked up this story yet ... so I be wary on the word confirmed

I searched the Daily news for fanapt and turned up nothing

 

B.  Its sounds crazy that a doctor would prescribe such a drug that didn't have proper approval and test history

I checked CNN and CNBC for example and nothing comes up with fanapt lanza

 

A.  Don't put too much faith in the mainstream press.  They would be reluctant to criticize a major drug company; may be the reason The Daily News revised their story.

 

B.  The Natural Society article seems to cast doubt on the Fanapt approval and study process:

 

After initially being rejected by the FDA for ‘severe problems’ in patients, Fanapt was eventually approved after a disturbing lack of study. Fanapt was only tested on around 500 people before going on sale to the almost 300 million citizens inside the United States for widespread ‘treatment'.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2012 by MikeL

[hh5]

in america we have family planning ... they are required to make an effort to try to resolve their differences before the divorce proceeding would take place

so prior to 2009 Lanza would find out that his parents has a problem for a period of time ... he was 17 at the time of divorce

the issues leading up to a divorce could have taken place at least a year or more before ...

if it was two years (separation \ marriage counseling) he be 15 at the time

 

as you say they weren't thinking of him ... the burden goes to the mother

 

You can't treat someone who had Aspergers the same as someone else who has Aspergers. I personally don't think this guy had Aspergers, but tbh I haven't really cared much about him nor his victims or followed anything about this shooting, simply because it doesn't interest me. But I've been half reading this topic and have decided to comment. You seem particularly interested in someone who killed school children, because of this dare I say obsession or fixation you have of Lanza, does that mean you would feel inclined to follow in his footsteps? To see if you feel compelled by this act of violence to see if you get the same feelings as Lanza? Just curious because reading and maybe fantasising about this or other shootings may compel you (or others) to act them out, just like you're suggesting 'violent' video games make loners want to steal cars and kill prostitutes in the hope to make some friends. Who's life is 'perfectly normal'? There's various degrees of normality and really parents divorcing is becoming the new normal. If every child who's parents divorced became murderers then there'd be millions of these sorta killings. The parents may not have cared about how the divorce may hurt him? Most children get upset when their parents divorce, I would have thought they'd get upset at either parents or blame themselves. But then again this guy was in his 20s right? He should have had some sort of reasoning that hey maybe this isn't about me, as I'm sure his parents told him that. Isn't the American economy sill pretty bad? Could that be the reason why the father was behind in payments? You can't force someone to socialise, and being a social retard is more likely to have that person just kill themselves, rather then go into a space around hundreds of people and watched kill others.

[hh5]

If this were to be discussed in mainstream it be another mess having repercussions ,,,

  ( like drug stocks losing equity - a scary thing to add the the fiscal cliff )

I guess the drama is in a holding pattern ... there is only so much the public can take in our shakey world

  ( europe had issues, middle east has issues, asia has issues, north america ... south america - unending )

 

Thanks for the heads up

 

A.  Don't put too much faith in the mainstream press.  They would be reluctant to criticize a major drug company; may be the reason The Daily News revised their story.

 

B.  The Natural Society article seems to cast doubt on the Fanapt approval and study process:

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2012 by hh5