C James Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 *GASP* I'll have you know that I was a published writer long before SOOTB ... except that was writing non-fiction books (and they were boring, trust me ... so don't ask! lol) ... hehe Buddha I had no idea! Ok, you say don't ask.. but, I'm one nosy bastard (and Goats aren't known for their tact) so I'm very curious: What was the genre? If I had to guess, I'd guess either History, or, given your current location and specialty, instruction manuals? I recall a friend of mine, about a dozen years ago, who proudly announced that he was being published, and promised us all a copy of his book. We got one, too: turned out, it was a technician's spec and maintenance manual for a hydraulic valve assembly (talkmotor). Not exactly riveting recreational reading. Link to comment
LittleBuddhaTW Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 How about we get back to discussing Chapter 18, instead of discussing the boring books I wrote eons ago ... There are still lots of posters we haven't heard from yet, and I, for one, am anxious to hear their opinions, no matter how brief they are ... C'mon, now, don't be shy! *Hugz* Buddha Link to comment
ex52tech Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Well, Ryan is a very confused young man. I don't think he necessarily likes the new, maybe a little less needy Connor. I think he is afraid that the stronger and more stable Connor gets, the sooner Connor will see just how insecure he is, and not want him. How come Ryan had nothing to say to Connor about the Trent Lomax incident? He didn't handle the Mikey situation well, and he is definately not handling Toby's illness well at all I think there is a train wreck comming for Ryan. Nice job again Thanks David, and Kitty. Ex Link to comment
petefromoz Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 LB's original reply ended with a wink, and in spite of that it never occurred to me that he might have added that to the chapter and re-posted it! I'd forgotten that full hosted authors can upload directly to their pages. Methinks you think too much!!! To which I can only add one word: Ethan. (Yes, I went back and pulled down and compared all of the chapters from Nifty with the current chapters. I'm obsessive when it comes to that sort of thing - but in a good way, honest... ) Keep up the great work - just let us know if you're planning any more ... substantial ... alterations. -- Pete Link to comment
LittleBuddhaTW Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 To which I can only add one word: Ethan. (Yes, I went back and pulled down and compared all of the chapters from Nifty with the current chapters. I'm obsessive when it comes to that sort of thing - but in a good way, honest... ) Keep up the great work - just let us know if you're planning any more ... substantial ... alterations. I only change things like minor editorial mistakes (I can recall one verb tense mistake in Ch. 1 that I fixed only a few weeks ago) or typos that very rarely get past Kitty or I, and if they're pointed out to us (like the "Ethan" inconsistency), I'll go back and change them. Other than that, I don't make changes. Link to comment
C James Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Well, Ryan is a very confused young man. I don't think he necessarily likes the new, maybe a little less needy Connor. I think he is afraid that the stronger and more stable Connor gets, the sooner Connor will see just how insecure he is, and not want him.How come Ryan had nothing to say to Connor about the Trent Lomax incident? He didn't handle the Mikey situation well, and he is definitely not handling Toby's illness well at all I think there is a train wreck coming for Ryan. I think I hear the whistle of that particular train, too. Ryan IMHO is on darn thin ice. I sure hope he comes out of whatever-it-is as he was really great before. I also share your curiosity regarding why we didn't see Ryan comment on the fight. However, I think the key words here might be "didn't see". I might be wrong, but I think one of the things LB is doing in the story is he's intentionally limiting our (readers) view in some cases by omitting a few things when they actually happen, for dramatic effect. So, theoretically, the conversation may well have occurred, but we, theoretically, might not hear about it until later in the story. Just a wild hunch. Or, given how withdrawn Ryan is, he indeed might not have said anything. Or, he might have, and it might have been included under "friends" in the paragraph where Connor recounts his friends reaction to the fight. I am quite positive of one thing though: whether we get to "see" it or not, I'm absolutely sure that Ryan either did, or did not, discuss the fight with Connor. To which I can only add one word: Ethan. (Yes, I went back and pulled down and compared all of the chapters from Nifty with the current chapters. I'm obsessive when it comes to that sort of thing - but in a good way, honest... ) Keep up the great work - just let us know if you're planning any more ... substantial ... alterations. Regarding the "Ethan" change... Hmmm.. I was wondering why, when the issue first came up, LB and Kitty didn't just explain that it's very common for boys that age to experiment with different first names, hence the discrepancy wasn't a discrepancy at all. Link to comment
C James Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 And also remember that it's all being told from Connor's point of view, how he sees things and what he thinks is important. He was so upset about having beaten up Trent that there may be things he's not letting in. (I'm just speculating, as a reader. I don't have any special knowledge about it at this moment.) That's a good point. Also, like anything told from the first person point of view (or from any point of view) there is a great deal left out. For example, we don't see ever second of Connor's every day. If we did, it would get boring in a hurry (several paragraphs about him brushing his teeth, basically the same way every day, or a description of each and every traffic light he went through on a drive, etc, etc, etc). If the story had that level of detail, we wouldn't even be at the point of him getting hit by the lacrosse ball yet, and probably wouldn't be for several hundred more chapters. I'm very curious indeed to see where the next chapter takes up. One thing about SOOTB, every chapter radically alters the story! I am quite positive of one thing though: whether we get to "see" it or not, I'm absolutely sure that Ryan either did, or did not, discuss the fight with Connor. I suspect you may be right about that. Or not. ROFL! I think I am quite right! I dare anyone to prove me wrong on this one! No, his editor just screwed up . Actually, after the discrepancy was pointed out, I was thinking along that same line ... maybe Ben's twin's full name was "Derek Ethan", and he was trying out using his middle name. ... works for me ... What? You admit that you were thinking like me!?!?! That's very strange, especially in light of the fact that you still won't admit that Eleanor Van Epps was your Cameo... I'd have thought that admitting to thinking like me would be far more embarrassing than that! Link to comment
petefromoz Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Sounds like you'd make a good editor. Thanks - that's very kind of you! (And I must admit, I quite like the "Derek Ethan" suggestion - a simple and elegant solution). But enough about me, back to the story discussion... One of the interesting 'hooks' in this story (and there are many), is the relationship dynamic between the characters, and especially how they're viewed by Connor. The beauty of a well-told first person story (to me, anyway) lies in the fallibility of the narrator. As mentioned earlier, Connor doesn't know everything, and doesn't witness everything. Therefore, he's limited to what he sees, what he's told, and how he interprets it. (Just like all of us on a daily basis, really). The mark of great storytelling here is that we're given just enough detail of what's going on, even coloured by Connor's (mis)interpretation, that we can see hints of where things don't quite match up to his understanding. Riding around in someone's head like that can be a fascinating, exhausting, and at times extremely frustrating experience. So what does all this mean? In the current situation, mainly that we have almost no access to Ryan's thoughts. We're limited to what he tells Connor, or what Connor learns by other means. Right now that's almost nothing, and what little we have is heavily coloured by Connor's attempt to rationalise and explain it. Obviously, something's wrong with the way Ryan's acting, but it appears to be taking the form of benign neglect rather than deliberate mistreatment. Given Connor's (understandable) reluctance to push further, I fear it's going to take intervention from some external force to uncover what's actually behind it. Ah, from such is good drama made... Seriously, though - a clue may lie in the overall theme of the piece. The first part was about Connor's life changing dramatically, and him growing emotionally, due to something happening "out of the blue". The second part involves another "out of the blue" event, and its ramifications. It's not unreasonable to think that both Ryan and Connor may be heading for another "growth spurt". Of course, given my (admittedly lousy) track record on this sort of thing, it could well be something else entirely. Either way, I can't wait to see how it plays out. -- Pete Link to comment
Max03 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Outstanding story I just hope Conner and Ryan will talk and get things solved before the real problems get in. I'm not a very good commenter so I don't comment much LB is one of the best authors in the world and Kitty is just the best editor .... Max Link to comment
C James Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 (edited) Seems to me that a lot of stories out there do just that. Every time the protagonist gets out of bed in the morning, he has to tell us that he goes into the bathroom and pees . Maybe it's just a guy thing (so to speak *ahem*) about peeing that us women just don't understand. I'm a guy, and I don't get it either... Well, what I know is, either Eleanor van Epps was my cameo or she wasn't. And that's the truth. I don't believe you! One of the interesting 'hooks' in this story (and there are many), is the relationship dynamic between the characters, and especially how they're viewed by Connor. The beauty of a well-told first person story (to me, anyway) lies in the fallibility of the narrator. As mentioned earlier, Connor doesn't know everything, and doesn't witness everything. Therefore, he's limited to what he sees, what he's told, and how he interprets it. (Just like all of us on a daily basis, really). I couldn't agree more! The omnipotent third-person perspective can often be used well, but for a story like this that focuses on interpersonal relationships, I doubt that it would work anywhere near as well. The mark of great storytelling here is that we're given just enough detail of what's going on, even coloured by Connor's (mis)interpretation, that we can see hints of where things don't quite match up to his understanding. Riding around in someone's head like that can be a fascinating, exhausting, and at times extremely frustrating experience. So what does all this mean? In the current situation, mainly that we have almost no access to Ryan's thoughts. We're limited to what he tells Connor, or what Connor learns by other means. Right now that's almost nothing, and what little we have is heavily coloured by Connor's attempt to rationalise and explain it. Obviously, something's wrong with the way Ryan's acting, but it appears to be taking the form of benign neglect rather than deliberate mistreatment. Given Connor's (understandable) reluctance to push further, I fear it's going to take intervention from some external force to uncover what's actually behind it. Ah, from such is good drama made... Seriously, though - a clue may lie in the overall theme of the piece. The first part was about Connor's life changing dramatically, and him growing emotionally, due to something happening "out of the blue". The second part involves another "out of the blue" event, and its ramifications. It's not unreasonable to think that both Ryan and Connor may be heading for another "growth spurt". The above is one of the best analysis I've ever seen. I don't really have anything to add, other than that I think you have quite a way with words yourself. This certainly is good drama... And I'm really eager to see what happens in 19... Just a hunch, but I think the issue with Ryan will continue to be exacerbated in 19, but I doubt it will be resolved or even explained in 19. I suspect that we are building up to some major happenings. Edited June 7, 2006 by C James Link to comment
C James Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 As Chapter 19 will probably be appearing sometime soon (this weekend or thereafter), would anyone care to join me in some speculation? My guess is that it will be a "build-up" chapter, as the strain in Ryan and Connor's relationship builds (due to Ryan's problem, whatever it is). I'll even hazard a guess that the chapter will end with a Ryan-Connor relationship cliffhanger. Link to comment
NickolasJames8 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 As Chapter 19 will probably be appearing sometime soon (this weekend or thereafter), would anyone care to join me in some speculation? My guess is that it will be a "build-up" chapter, as the strain in Ryan and Connor's relationship builds (due to Ryan's problem, whatever it is). I'll even hazard a guess that the chapter will end with a Ryan-Connor relationship cliffhanger. I think Conner and Toby are going to be spending a lot of time together and Ryan is going to get even more jealous and angry and eventually he'll try to kiss Cody and at the end of the chapter, Toby and Conner see the kiss happening. Link to comment
LittleBuddhaTW Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Jeez, with all these expectations, I hope I remember to post the chapter this weekend ... Link to comment
NickolasJames8 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Jeez, with all these expectations, I hope I remember to post the chapter this weekend ... :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: Ok, now. Let's be sensible. Link to comment
C James Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Jeez, with all these expectations, I hope I remember to post the chapter this weekend ... LB, just concentrate on recovering from your injured arm. (for those who don't know what I mean, read LB's blog post about hit-and-run drivers). I hope it's just a minor bruise... Link to comment
one_confused_pyro Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) Hello.I just thought I'd join to tell you I found your story (SOOTB) on nifty.It's rare to find a nice "high quality" story where you can really get into it.Needless to say I wish I discovered it sooner to save myself a night of sleep lol.I think I was reading for a good 6-8 hours, I was hooked!I kept reading until my eyes starting wigging out from the computer screen lol.Very good story so far.I hope there are MANY chapters ahead lol. Although all things must come to an end SOMETIME, I hope this story goes on for a while.As I really enjoy it.Even though I wish it'd never come to an end And reading 14 chapters in one night shows I truly am hooked.Then reading the remaining 2 posted on nifty when I got home in the late afternoon and the other tonight.I truly do love this story, probably the best I've read. I can honestly say I've never stayed up all night reading a book or any other story.Well, minus calvin and hobbes comics Keep up the great work! I can't wait to read more and more....... Edited June 9, 2006 by one_confused_pyro Link to comment
Conner Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I'm a guy, and I don't get it either... You're not a guy! You're a goat! Just look at your own photo! Hugs, Conner Link to comment
C James Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 You're not a guy! You're a goat! Just look at your own photo! Hugs, Conner Well, I can't argue that! Serves me right for having my personal pic in my profile! ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, Connor, how is it for you reading SOOTB, and sharing your name with the protagonist? That must be a bit jarring on occasion... Link to comment
LittleBuddhaTW Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 The cute, curly-haired, piano playing boy from SOOTB is CONNOR ... not CONNER ... sheesh ... *Buddha goes back to working on really hot summer anthology story* Link to comment
C James Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 The cute, curly-haired, piano playing boy from SOOTB is CONNOR ... not CONNER ... sheesh ... *Buddha goes back to working on really hot summer anthology story* Erk! This, as if further proof was needed, is proof that I can't spell. So, a really hot summer anthology story, eh? Believe it or not, I've written one too. I don't know whether mine will make the cut or not, but I'm going to submit it and see. Link to comment
AFriendlyFace Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I actually think those two lines point out one of the major themes of the entire story. It's what I've been thinking of as the "big push away." In Connor's earlier life, that's how he dealt with everyone -- keeping them away, not letting anyone know what was going on or help him, not opening up and letting anyone in. Now Toby's pushing Cody away, and Ryan's pushing away everyone except Connor. I hadn't thought of how Mikey's parents are reacting as part of that, but it certainly could be. OHhhhh, yes that seems like a big insight. I quite agree! -Kevin Link to comment
Drewbie Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I know toby doesn't want cody to see him like this, but I think he knows that Cody would do anything for him. Link to comment
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