Gaydar: real or myth?

[C James]

The subject of Gaydar came up on one of the story forums, and I thought it might be interesting to discuss it here.

 

My own personal position is that of mild skepticism. I've yet to see gaydar in action, without fairly obvious clues. "Fairly obvious clues" would include stereotypical gay mannerisms, extreme effeminism, a high voice and manner of speech, etc.

 

Now, my own "gaydar" is so bad that I often miss even very "out" guys! I'm a bit oblivious, but after years of practice I can now pick up on really subtle clues such as a guy kissing another guy in public.

 

So, has anyone here ever seen gaydar in action in real life, in situations where clues are not obvious?

 

I'm not trying to argue this one way or the other, I'm just curious what others here think.

[Guest raz]

If gaydar is in fact real, my own is incredibly faulty.

[Tom]

If gaydar is in fact real, my own is incredibly faulty.

 

ditto

[AFriendlyFace]

Well I feel like mine has been gradually getting better. I think it comes down to paying attention and knowing what to look for. I think in part ANYONE could do it, I just think it's traditionally something other gay people are more likely to do. I mean if you're gay and especially if you're gay and "looking", you're going to be interested in trying to figure out if this new person might also be gay. Whereas your average straight person probably doesn't really care, and already assumes the person is straight. It's sort of like if you want to figure out if someone is a big music fan (bad example but I'm going to go with it). You'll be looking for specific clothes and styles that might give them away: a T-shirt, wrist band, earring (I've seen someone with a guitar pick on their keys) etc. You'll also be looking for anything in the conversation that might possibly indicate a devotion to music, a musical reference, an analogy (gosh I'm using one of those ), or a general tendency to bring up something related to music. However, someone who isn't much of a music fan, or simply isn't interested in finding out if others are, might not pick up on these things. They might be too focused on whatever their own hobbies or interests are.

 

Another aspect, I think, is a familiarity which makes it easier to know what to look for even with regards to the subtler things. I hate to use this as an example, but I'm sure many people have heard the old stereotypical expression about not being able to describe someone of another race because "they all look the same to me". Assuming for a second that this isn't just a racist remark it could make sense in that the speaker simply hasn't be exposed to many people of that race and isn't able to take note of the subtle distinguishing characteristics (which aren't subtle at all to someone who's always been able to do it). To use myself as an example when I a small child I couldn't tell anyone from other races apart. As I got older I spent more time with race A and had many friends of this race and now I'm good at it, and confident that I can do it. More recently I've been exposed to race B and while I don't feel I have the same level of proficiency with race B that I do with race A or my own race, I feel pretty good about it. Then there's race C, I've known very few people of race C and had no close contact. I'm still poor at distinguishing (but eager and trying) the (to me) subtle differences in appearance. Gay people, typically, spend longer periods of time with other gay people and know more gay people than your typical straight person. Your typical straight person can MAYBE name a few people they know are gay and spend time with regularly, another gay person can often make a list (and for those of you about to say, "not me", being here counts since you're still being exposed to the intricacies of gay culture and personality - and a quick for our straight friends! ). For further example I initially had more contact with lesbians than other gay guys, and I had better "lesbiandar" than "gayguydar".

 

Another aspect is that gay people ofter are trying to figure out if someone else is gay and depending on their perceptions they may respond by doing/saying something subtle which might give the other person a hint (if that person were already looking), that person may respond in kind and before you know it, it escalates and both people are reasonably sure they're dealing with "family". I think this is almost always going on below the level of awareness of the participants though. I don't think either person is consciously trying to give hints, and may not even be consciously looking for them. I just think it naturally happens (in a way similar to body language, people send out cues with their body language that they're unaware of and other people often read these cues without being conscious of the fact that they're even there. You ever just get the feeling someone was nervous? Sad? Scared? Angry? or Lying?).

 

Mostly though I think gaydar just comes down to looking for something and having the experience necessary to recognize it. (but I really do think it's often exaggerated)

 

Anyway just my thoughts, take care and have a great day everyone!

Kevin

Edited June 4, 2006 by AFriendlyFace

[BoyNeedsTherapy]

I think in part it's just picking up signals from people, their body language, etc. Also there's things like if someone uses neutral pronouns or just avoids using them, they instead of he or she,or says things like 'I went out with a friend, we went shopping, my friend loves to shop, then we went to a movie, they really love horror movies.' When it'd be easier to say he loves to shop, he loves horror movies...or if someone just completely avoids conversations like that, that always makes me wonder.

 

Also I think who someone watches when they think no one's paying attention or that no one can see them, is sometimes a giveaway. My gaydar has pinged a few times when guys who've thought they were out of sight have watched a nice (male) ass walk by...I think it's the little things like that that make up 'gaydar'. And I think anyone could spot them if they paid attention, it's why some straight people can pick up on it too, but I think gay men spot them easier because they're used to doing those things themselves...

 

I dunno, that's just my opinion

[AFriendlyFace]

Also there's things like if someone uses neutral pronouns or just avoids using them, they instead of he or she,or says things like 'I went out with a friend, we went shopping, my friend loves to shop, then we went to a movie, they really love horror movies.' When it'd be easier to say he loves to shop, he loves horror movies...or if someone just completely avoids conversations like that, that always makes me wonder.

Exactly!

[C James]

If gaydar is in fact real, my own is incredibly faulty.

 

I think my own gaydar is still often talked about by college friends of mine.

 

In college, I was looking for a new place to stay, and a friend of a friend said that he was looking for a new roommate to split the trailer he was living in. I was deeply in the closet, and the idea of being roommates with this guy kinda scared me: He was very hot (blond, tan, surfer-type) and hardly ever wore a shirt (this was in Phoenix, Arizona, so not unusual). So, I was scared of "slipping" and being caught staring at the eye candy and outing myself. But, I needed a place, and he seemed like a nice guy, and he sure was nice to look at. In other words, I had a serious crush on him, and moved in.

 

I was very paranoid that he would find out that I was gay. This was rather dumb, as he had commented many times about how stupid homophobia was. I'd agree with him on that, but was always careful to imply that it (homosexuality) "wasn't my thing".

 

He usually hung around in the trailer in just boxers, and I sure had to struggle not to stare, especially when he stretched, which he did a lot. Sometimes, when we were drinking, he would let fly with comments like "I don't see why more guys aren't gay: a guy would be better at knowing what another guy likes in bed... I think every guy should try it at least once.."

 

I'm suppose that most people reading this are starting to pick up on something about him.. But I didn't. I didn't even clue in on the fact that he just might be someone who would be open-minded enough to come out to. (in spite of his making statements like that!).

 

One night, while drinking, we started play-wrestling on the couch. He started nibbling on my ear, and asked me if that bothered me. I said "no, feels great" and one thing quickly lead to another over the next few hours.

 

Finally, a few hours later, it did finally dawn on me that he was probably gay. And, all it took was for this ping on my gaydar to occur was for us to have sex, with him starting it!

 

Long story short (too late!), he was not only gay, but out (apparently everyone but me knew!), and flirting with me! And it took me MONTHS to find out. He said he thought I was straight, but wanted to see if I would "experiment".

 

We ended up being boyfriends, but split up a few months later when he moved back East. I've always regretted those lost months, and the additional fun we could have had if I'd have figured it out sooner. I guess I'm just lucky that he decided to try making the first move, or I'd have probably never figured it out.

 

So, if you can live with a very hot half-naked guy who is making passes at you and still be oblivious, then and only then can you say that you have gaydar on par with mine..

[Guest raz]

I think my own gaydar is still often talked about by college friends of mine.

 

In college, I was looking for a new place to stay, and a friend of a friend said that he was looking for a new roommate to split the trailer he was living in. I was deeply in the closet, and the idea of being roommates with this guy kinda scared me: He was very hot (blond, tan, surfer-type) and hardly ever wore a shirt (this was in Phoenix, Arizona, so not unusual). So, I was scared of "slipping" and being caught staring at the eye candy and outing myself. But, I needed a place, and he seemed like a nice guy, and he sure was nice to look at. In other words, I had a serious crush on him, and moved in.

 

I was very paranoid that he would find out that I was gay. This was rather dumb, as he had commented many times about how stupid homophobia was. I'd agree with him on that, but was always careful to imply that it (homosexuality) "wasn't my thing".

 

He usually hung around in the trailer in just boxers, and I sure had to struggle not to stare, especially when he stretched, which he did a lot. Sometimes, when we were drinking, he would let fly with comments like "I don't see why more guys aren't gay: a guy would be better at knowing what another guy likes in bed... I think every guy should try it at least once.."

 

I'm suppose that most people reading this are starting to pick up on something about him.. But I didn't. I didn't even clue in on the fact that he just might be someone who would be open-minded enough to come out to. (in spite of his making statements like that!).

 

One night, while drinking, we started play-wrestling on the couch. He started nibbling on my ear, and asked me if that bothered me. I said "no, feels great" and one thing quickly lead to another over the next few hours.

 

Finally, a few hours later, it did finally dawn on me that he was probably gay. And, all it took was for this ping on my gaydar to occur was for us to have sex, with him starting it!

 

Long story short (too late!), he was not only gay, but out (apparently everyone but me knew!), and flirting with me! And it took me MONTHS to find out. He said he thought I was straight, but wanted to see if I would "experiment".

 

We ended up being boyfriends, but split up a few months later when he moved back East. I've always regretted those lost months, and the additional fun we could have had if I'd have figured it out sooner. I guess I'm just lucky that he decided to try making the first move, or I'd have probably never figured it out.

 

So, if you can live with a very hot half-naked guy who is making passes at you and still be oblivious, then and only then can you say that you have gaydar on par with mine..

 

You win.

[C James]

Another aspect, I think, is a familiarity which makes it easier to know what to look for even with regards to the subtler things. I hate to use this as an example, but I'm sure many people have heard the old stereotypical expression about not being able to describe someone of another race because "they all look the same to me". Assuming for a second that this isn't just a racist remark it could make sense in that the speaker simply hasn't be exposed to many people of that race and isn't able to take note of the subtle distinguishing characteristics (which aren't subtle at all to someone who's always been able to do it). To use myself as an example when I a small child I couldn't tell anyone from other races apart. As I got older I spent more time with race A and had many friends of this race and now I'm good at it, and confident that I can do it. More recently I've been exposed to race B and while I don't feel I have the same level of proficiency with race B that I do with race A or my own race, I feel pretty good about it. Then there's race C, I've known very few people of race C and had no close contact. I'm still poor at distinguishing (but eager and trying) the (to me) subtle differences in appearance. Gay people, typically, spend longer periods of time with other gay people and know more gay people than your typical straight person. Your typical straight person can MAYBE name a few people they know are gay and spend time with regularly, another gay person can often make a list (and for those of you about to say, "not me", being here counts since you're still being exposed to the intricacies of gay culture and personality - and a quick for our straight friends! ). For further example I initially had more contact with lesbians than other gay guys, and I had better "lesbiandar" than "gayguydar".

 

Hmmmm! Those are some very interesting points!

 

I never thought I had "Lesbiandar" BUT, after reading your post, I recalled the first few people I ever came out to. Two out of the three turned out to be Lesbians. I'd been looking for people I felt would be accepting, and were good friends, so picked them. I think I still do have more Lesbian friends than gay male friends. So, perhaps I do have "Lesbiandar" after all. Come to think of it, I'm usually more comfortable around Lesbians than I am around gay men.

Thanks for bringing this up, or the possibility would never have occured to me.

 

Another aspect is that gay people ofter are trying to figure out if someone else is gay and depending on their perceptions they may respond by doing/saying something subtle which might give the other person a hint (if that person were already looking), that person may respond in kind and before you know it, it escalates and both people are reasonably sure they're dealing with "family". I think this is almost always going on below the level of awareness of the participants though. I don't think either person is consciously trying to give hints, and may not even be consciously looking for them. I just think it naturally happens (in a way similar to body language, people send out cues with their body language that they're unaware of and other people often read these cues without being conscious of the fact that they're even there. You ever just get the feeling someone was nervous? Sad? Scared? Angry? or Lying?).

 

Mostly though I think gaydar just comes down to looking for something and having the experience necessary to recognize it. (but I really do think it's often exaggerated)

 

That could be why I was so oblivious in the roommate story of my previous post. I'd only been out to myself for a very short while (I was in denial until college). I was used to assuming that everyone was straight. I'm also (then and now) notorious for being oblivious to body language and subtext in all forms (I mis-read people and situations a LOT) even where sexuality is not involved.

 

I think in part it's just picking up signals from people, their body language, etc. Also there's things like if someone uses neutral pronouns or just avoids using them, they instead of he or she,or says things like 'I went out with a friend, we went shopping, my friend loves to shop, then we went to a movie, they really love horror movies.' When it'd be easier to say he loves to shop, he loves horror movies...or if someone just completely avoids conversations like that, that always makes me wonder.

 

Also I think who someone watches when they think no one's paying attention or that no one can see them, is sometimes a giveaway. My gaydar has pinged a few times when guys who've thought they were out of sight have watched a nice (male) ass walk by...I think it's the little things like that that make up 'gaydar'. And I think anyone could spot them if they paid attention, it's why some straight people can pick up on it too, but I think gay men spot them easier because they're used to doing those things themselves...

 

I dunno, that's just my opinion

 

Good points. However (and this doesn't contradict anything you said), IMHO, in some cases someone deeply in the closet (Like I was) will take great pains to avoid giving any ambiguity or other clues. I do agree with the part about watching guys when they think they are out of sight: That can be a big clue!

[Kurt]

This one lesbian girl has really great gaydar, I have been told that no one has ever suspected me of being gay, but this lesbian new that I was... So, she has good gaydar, I do not.

 

Kurt

[Drewbie]

My Gaydar is so so.

[glomph]

So, if you can live with a very hot half-naked guy who is making passes at you and still be oblivious, then and only then can you say that you have gaydar on par with mine..

 

I roomed with a guy for a semester who I never could quite figure out. He was a really sweet guy, nice looking, intelligent, and there was something really refreshing about his outlook on life and everything. But there was something about him that made me uncomfortable, which was weird since he was such a great guy otherwise. It was like he had adopted me as some sort of father figure. (He had a really tense relationship with his father, and I didn't understand that, either.) You guys know me well enough to know that I will pontificate at the drop of a hat, so it wasn't hard for him to sucker me into that sort of role. Eventually I caught on and was uncomfortable, and we had a pleasant enough chat about it.

 

I could make some kind of offhand remark, and he would blow it up all out of context and importance. For example, he came back after a visit home one weekend and told me that he had broken up with his girlfriend because he got to thinking about some stray remark of mine. That was weird.

 

On a couple of occasions, he told me that he thought I was good looking. I just muttered a confused "Thanks," and thought, "What an odd thing to say."

 

At the end of the semester a single room opened up, and I moved into it. I explained to him that it had nothing to do with him, and I expected us to remain good friends. I just wanted a single room. He was profoundly hurt in ways I couldn't understand. He left school at the end of the second semester and seemed to go out of his way to plan his departure for when I'd be out of state, so we wouldn't ever have to say goodbye. I did see his brother occasionally and would find out a little about him, mainly that he was OK. He never contacted me or gave me info to contact him.

 

It has bothered me all these years that I hurt such a beautiful, innocent person, quite unwittingly and in ways I didn't understand.

 

I told this some years later to a younger friend who is gay. About 20 years after the fact, it dawned upon me that the guy must have been in love with me. I mentioned this to my gay friend, and he said that it was obvious to him from what I told him, but he didn't tell me at the time, maybe because he wasn't out to me then.

 

I no longer feel just sad when I think of that guy from long ago: I feel sad and really stupid.

 

So maybe my gaydar is not as bad as yours, but it will give yours a run, I think.

[C James]

You win.

 

ROFL! With Gaydar like mine, is it any wonder that I sometimes doubt it exists?

 

This one lesbian girl has really great gaydar, I have been told that no one has ever suspected me of being gay, but this lesbian new that I was... So, she has good gaydar, I do not.

 

Interesting! I'm very intrigued by Lesbians with gaydar, as it sort of disproves the theory of "it takes one to know one".

 

I've never been "gaydared", either, which is one of the things that makes me wonder just how much reality their is to gaydar. However, cases like yours sure seem convincing!

 

I roomed with a guy for a semester who I never could quite figure out. He was a really sweet guy, nice looking, intelligent, and there was something really refreshing about his outlook on life and everything. But there was something about him that made me uncomfortable, which was weird since he was such a great guy otherwise. It was like he had adopted me as some sort of father figure. (He had a really tense relationship with his father, and I didn't understand that, either.) You guys know me well enough to know that I will pontificate at the drop of a hat, so it wasn't hard for him to sucker me into that sort of role. Eventually I caught on and was uncomfortable, and we had a pleasant enough chat about it.

 

I could make some kind of offhand remark, and he would blow it up all out of context and importance. For example, he came back after a visit home one weekend and told me that he had broken up with his girlfriend because he got to thinking about some stray remark of mine. That was weird.

 

On a couple of occasions, he told me that he thought I was good looking. I just muttered a confused "Thanks," and thought, "What an odd thing to say."

 

At the end of the semester a single room opened up, and I moved into it. I explained to him that it had nothing to do with him, and I expected us to remain good friends. I just wanted a single room. He was profoundly hurt in ways I couldn't understand. He left school at the end of the second semester and seemed to go out of his way to plan his departure for when I'd be out of state, so we wouldn't ever have to say goodbye. I did see his brother occasionally and would find out a little about him, mainly that he was OK. He never contacted me or gave me info to contact him.

 

It has bothered me all these years that I hurt such a beautiful, innocent person, quite unwittingly and in ways I didn't understand.

 

I told this some years later to a younger friend who is gay. About 20 years after the fact, it dawned upon me that the guy must have been in love with me. I mentioned this to my gay friend, and he said that it was obvious to him from what I told him, but he didn't tell me at the time, maybe because he wasn't out to me then.

 

I no longer feel just sad when I think of that guy from long ago: I feel sad and really stupid.

 

So maybe my gaydar is not as bad as yours, but it will give yours a run, I think.

 

Glomph, I'm really sorry to hear about this. That must be painful. Have you ever considered looking him up?

 

Also, is it possible that he wasn't even out to himself? I remember when I was in my senior year of High school, and was still in denial. I had a Best Friend who I was, I can now admit, very jealous and possessive of. At the time, I thought I just wanted to be best friends, but now I can see that I really wanted more. Had he at that time offered, I'd have probably been shocked and turned him down.

 

Still, your story is very poigniant indeed. I was lucky that my guy actually did something about it, or I'd have been in a similar situation. However, in my case, there wasn't the emotional issue. While we did become boyfriends, it was soon apparent to both of us that we were not in love, just good friends who enjoyed, well, being more than friends. So, when he moved, it wasn't a sad breakup for either of us, and we did stay in touch for a while.

[JamesSavik]

If I'm supposed to have Gaydar, then mine needs a tune up.

[redlightfeeling]

the only gaydar I have is like tactic gaydar. I just wait until a hot guy walks through the lunch room, and instead of staring at the hot guy's ass I watch everyone else.

First guy to look at the hot guys ass is gay.

Then you talk to him, find stuff out about it, and usually that all also points to him being gay.

But as far as decided that a guy is gay just by talking to him, I'm not very good at that.

 

P.S. I got that idea from one of com's story's I think

[glomph]

Glomph, I'm really sorry to hear about this. That must be painful. Have you ever considered looking him up?

 

Not terribly long after he left, a movie came out about a sweet, naive, good-looking young man who moves to the big city and befriends a con man who had swindled him. The actor even looked a lot like my friend. The movie would have been intense anyway, but I found it especially painful to watch.

 

No, I wouldn't consider looking him up. I continue to respect his decision long ago. I trust that by now he has pretty well forgotten all about me, and has had a great life with all the love he deserves, from person(s) of whatever gender he prefers. And maybe I'm just vain enough to prefer that if he ever does remember me, he thinks of the young guy he thought was good looking.

 

I did look up his name in Yahoo and found someone of that not-so-common name listed in a little town north of San Francisco.

 

Also, is it possible that he wasn't even out to himself?

 

That's possible. He at least explored having sex with a co-ed. He warned me that he might need not to be interrupted in the room some time. I don't think he ever mentioned much of anything about it to me afterward. In our "father figure" discussion, he said that he had cast other guys in that role before, but of course he never said if this ever had lead to any kind of physical relationship.

 

By the end of the school year, when he hopped on his motorcycle and headed for San Francisco, I suspect that he had it all pretty well figured out, even if I hadn't.

[Gandalf]

to digress a bit from Gaydar.. Glooph it is cool to hear your story. I had a roomate by sophomore year college who I was sure was gay even though I wasnt admitting I was. Turns out he wasnt but we are still great friends. His friend and I became close and at one point we were wrestling then became lovers for several years. We were known in the History Dept at school as the Midnight Cowboys. I later decided to not be gay( there is a trick let me say) Raised foster sons, brief marriage and beautiful daughter then got sober came back out and have been back in a long distance relationship with my old college partner since 1991.

 

Gaydar, I was in a meeting here in Sevilla last fall and talking about my life but very gender neautral and copesetic but afterward this guy came over and had picked me out as gay. By what i didnt say. Also he also was married, divorced etc so wasnt distracted by that stuff. I sure dont have much of it though.. Pax, Steve

[Boy In Doubt]

My gaydar leads me to the opposite direction. Gets me in trouble. I mean, it would have been useful if it makes me see guys who are gay and not ones I would think are gay. As for signs, well, I can't tell. Sometimes a person does something that makes you go "yeah, gay" but then he turns out to be a complete homophobe!!!

 

Sorry for ranting like a guy with a broken gaydar, which I am.

[BoyNeedsTherapy]

Gets me in trouble. I mean, it would have been useful if it makes me see guys who are gay and not ones I would think are gay.

 

Hehehe, that my friend is very similar to gaydar, but it goes by the name of wishdar It's a very confusing thing and messes with even the most refined of gaydars.

[glomph]

My gaydar leads me to the opposite direction. Gets me in trouble. I mean, it would have been useful if it makes me see guys who are gay and not ones I would think are gay. As for signs, well, I can't tell. Sometimes a person does something that makes you go "yeah, gay" but then he turns out to be a complete homophobe!!!

 

Maybe your gaydar is pretty good.

 

Maybe panic and fear are why the guy is such a homophobe, or maybe he thinks he needs to act like one to stay in the closet. Or maybe he thinks you're cute, and that's the only way he can cope with temptation.

 

Or maybe not. But be suspicious if he doth protest too much. That doesn't change his availablity, though, at least in the short run.

[CoLeYy]

My gaydar is pretty well..

 

i knew a few girls / guys were gay and they was so far in the "closet" i dont know why but im pretty good with it

[Bao]

mine only works when im drunk lol.

[AFriendlyFace]

mine only works when im drunk lol.

Welcome back, Bao . It's great to see you again

 

Hehehe, that my friend is very similar to gaydar, but it goes by the name of wishdar It's a very confusing thing and messes with even the most refined of gaydars.

YUP

Maybe your gaydar is pretty good.

 

Maybe panic and fear are why the guy is such a homophobe, or maybe he thinks he needs to act like one to stay in the closet. Or maybe he thinks you're cute, and that's the only way he can cope with temptation.

 

Or maybe not. But be suspicious if he doth protest too much. That doesn't change his availablity, though, at least in the short run.

YUP again.

 

 

[NickolasJames8]

Mine works when I'm reading a story....like one time I was reading a Dom Luka story, and my gaydar kicked in and I just knew that some of the characters were going to be gay even before I started reading it

[NaperVic]

Ben, Kevin, & jaRED all have some good points.

 

Gaydar isn't one technique or one sign to look for....It's a combination of lots of little things to keep an eye out for that can give a strong indication as to whether someone is Gay or not.

 

I've always found that the 'eyes don't lie'. As jaRED said, if you can observe where someone is looking (without them knowing they are being watched), you can get a real good indication whether they are gay if they are staring at cute guys or their asses for that second too long. Also, it's pretty obvious if they lick their lips at the same time .

 

While some people have natural Gaydar talent, others have to continue to hone and improve their gaydar with time and practice.

 

Observe and peoplewatch...your Gaydar will then be the best on the block.

 

And as Ben said, don't confuse Wishdar with Gaydar. Cause you can't make a guy gay just by wishing for it hard enough

 

Take Care

Edited January 5, 2008 by NaperVic