Proper Grammer in Dialogue

[Justin4Fun]

When I write in 1st person I tend toward a more informal feel and I've, on occasion, had PM's pointing out grammatical errors, primarily around word usage.

The most common one is the use of 'I' and 'me', especially when used with another person. I know the test is to remove the name and whatever is correct without the name is correct with the name. The times I struggle with it are when a teen character is speaking. 'Proper' grammar isn't always used by a teen, and as such, it just feels right to make errors.

While editing a future chapter, I found the following: 'That will allow Scott and I to finish high school and get a four-year degree.'

I KNOW that it should be 'Scott and me' because if you remove Scott, it reads That will allow me to... But the speaker is 17 and talking to adults and would make the mistake of using 'I' from years of teachers correcting his misuse.

I think I'm overthinking it, but as written, it just flows better, and correcting a teen's grammar to make it right, but make it 'seem' wrong just feels wrong.

[LJCC]

5 hours ago, Justin4Fun said:

When I write in 1st person I tend toward a more informal feel and I've, on occasion, had PM's pointing out grammatical errors, primarily around word usage.

The most common one is the use of 'I' and 'me', especially when used with another person. I know the test is to remove the name and whatever is correct without the name is correct with the name. The times I struggle with it are when a teen character is speaking. 'Proper' grammar isn't always used by a teen, and as such, it just feels right to make errors.

While editing a future chapter, I found the following: 'That will allow Scott and I to finish high school and get a four-year degree.'

I KNOW that it should be 'Scott and me' because if you remove Scott, it reads That will allow me to... But the speaker is 17 and talking to adults and would make the mistake of using 'I' from years of teachers correcting his misuse.

I think I'm overthinking it, but as written, it just flows better, and correcting a teen's grammar to make it right, but make it 'seem' wrong just feels wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless of your character's age, bad grammar shouldn't be an excuse to deposit it into the dialogue unless it's madly done with intention. Because purposefully adding grammatical errors into the dialogue adds perspective to the mind of your character. For example, adding slang or certain jargons to your character's dialogue script, makes him/her sound informal, thus giving context about the character's personality.

For example:

"Hey chika, how yous doin'?"

"Hey girl, how you doin'?"

"Hey ma'am. How are you doing?"

"Hey mate, how're going?"

The dialogue itself reflects the mindset of your character.

Huckleberry Finn is an example of this. It's very informal and speaks in the vernacular of the characters, which makes it really hard to read. It's colloquial, very distinctive, and very very intimate. His illiteracy, in my opinion, gave the book more depth since it helped the reader understand him better. He detested school, which was evident by his illiteracy, and detested Widow Douglas' attempts to civilise him. The lack of literacy led to the novel's informality. He was uneducated, thus there were no fancy terms or large words. The writing style wasn't an effect of the author's lack of grasp in the English language. In fact, it was a masterful way to make a point about education, adding a moral to the story.

Now the question is, is your character illiterate? Uneducated? Informal? Hung out on the streets, therefore, imploring him to use street language? Is the character fancy, lived in big mansions? Rich? Wealthy? Stuck-up? Humble? Or simple?

Those questions should be clearly answered in your writing style. 

[Justin4Fun]

All valid points. 

On the other side of that coin is the fact that most of us commonly use 'me' and 'I' incorrectly in speech, while not as often in written communication. At least I do, as I'm not college-educated, and I work a blue-collar job. Don't misunderstand me, I don't go around saying, "Me is coming to visit." or anything that extreme, but I know that, as written, my example 'sounds' right to me. It is only when I write it, and think out the diagram of the sentence, that I stop and edit.

As such, is it wrong to make such minor mistakes in dialogue, making the character 'human'. He's far from illiterate, but he's still a 17 year old who speaks casual English.

Not arguing, just debating, to get differing views.

[LJCC]

6 minutes ago, Justin4Fun said:

All valid points. 

On the other side of that coin is the fact that most of us commonly use 'me' and 'I' incorrectly in speech, while not as often in written communication. At least I do, as I'm not college-educated, and I work a blue-collar job. Don't misunderstand me, I don't go around saying, "Me is coming to visit." or anything that extreme, but I know that, as written, my example 'sounds' right to me. It is only when I write it, and think out the diagram of the sentence, that I stop and edit.

As such, is it wrong to make such minor mistakes in dialogue, making the character 'human'. He's far from illiterate, but he's still a 17 year old who speaks casual English.

Not arguing, just debating, to get differing views.

 

If you're editing it because it sounds wrong, then it you know fully well that your readers will know it's wrong.

If you wrote:

The stage has been set that will allow Scott and I to finish high school and get a four-year degree. Scott said, "You think we're going to graduate?"

OR:

"The stage has been set that will allow Scott and me to finish high school and get a four-year degree," I said to my dad.

Grammatical errors are more acceptable if it's part of the character's dialogue. Readers are more forgiving if a character is speaking intentional dialogue with badly written grammar. If it's part of your narration, then you better do a stop and check to assess if it's right or wrong because your readers will notice. 

[Justin4Fun]

8 minutes ago, LJCC said:

Grammatical errors are more acceptable if it's part of the character's dialogue. Readers are more forgiving if a character is speaking intentional dialogue with badly written grammar. If it's part of your narration, then you better do a stop and check to assess if it's right or wrong because your readers will notice. 

My thoughts exactly. As character dialogue, minor grammatical errors are human and natural. 

I wanted to get a feel if many disagreed. Granted, in the narrative, I need to be correct.

[Lt.Mac]

My writing work has been, for many years, almost exclusively stage plays. I work with two elements -- dialog and stage directions. My stage directions need to be grammatically correct, and as brief as possible. For character dialog, the correct grammar (or lack thereof) can say a whole lot about the character.  For (an extreme cliche) example, if I write a scene with a young punk, strutting around, talking to a stranger he just met, and he says, "You be da' man! ...Ain't ya'?" As an audience member, you're not worrying about whether his grammar is correct or not. (At least I hope not!) You're wondering who this jerk is and what he's thinking. As the scene develops, from what you've seen and heard from the character, it doesn't surprise you to find out that he's wondering if the guy he's talking to is a cop or detective or whatever. What he says is not good grammar, but it is what that character needs to say in that situation. 

Grammar, in dialog, needs to convey much more than just the meaning of the "grammatically correct" words which are spoken by the characters.

[Libby Drew]

Dialogue isn't writing. It's speaking. All bets are off for dialogue. It needs to sound natural and in character. Don't force formality into your characters' discourse because you think it needs to be grammatically correct. 

[Krista]

Dialog doesn't have to be grammatically correct, unless you wish the character to be well-educated, proper, and all of that great stuff. A lawyer, educator that is strict on how they speak, etc.  Dialog and grammar are the easiest ways to set up your characters, especially in first person. Giving them a unique voice, way of talking, and word usage throughout the piece gives them life. 

In first person, you may also get away with not using correct grammar in the writing itself. Your character is the narrator allow them to tell the story, and be consistent with the word usage, so that it becomes a stylistic choice. It needs to read well though, it shouldn't be something that causes the reader to stop, retrace, and read it over and again to get the point.

I am a person that doesn't like a lot of slang in character development. So my characters are never up to date on terms used, mostly because I find it dates the writing way too often, and dates the characters. I feel you can get more out of how a character talks, with grammar, overall usage, and consistency than you can get with them throwing out slang. If all the characters in your writing are doing it as well, you may lose your character's voice in that mix. 

It also goes without saying that period pieces should follow consistency and be more appropriate for the time period.

--

In third, the narration and writing, I feel needs to be more grammatically correct. The dialog still depends on the character, but to a lesser degree than I would say in First. Just make sure they have distinct voices and I still think grammar, and usage are easiest. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Krista