[LittleBuddhaTW] SOOTB 23

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Chapter 24 has been sent to Kitty ...

[C James]

Chapter 24 has been sent to Kitty ...

 

 

No matter what happens in it, I think it will be great!

 

BTW, speaking of Connor's faults, I can only think of one big one, but it's truly unforgivable! It's so horrendous that I am loathe to even mention it... It's a clear and unmitigated sign of a character flaw of such magnitude that he can never be redeemed! It's utterly unconscionable: He has a name that begins with a "C"!!!

 

Regards,

CJ

[AFriendlyFace]

So ...

 

Ryan acts like an asshole to his brother (who is suffering from cancer) and Connor, tells Connor that he doesn't love him anymore (believe me, that hurts worse than any insult anyone has ever thrown at me), and then, he is faced (both figuratively and literally) with the person who assaulted and raped him and hears that his ex-boyfriend was going out with a girl ... I have a really hard time accepting that Connor didn't have a "right" to flip out a bit at Ryan.

 

In fact, I have seen Connor get criticized for an awful lot of stuff that I would never imagine criticizing him for. It's really thrown me for a loop, and I don't really understand the reactions to Connor, in general. Perhaps that's why I've been having such a tough time writing lately ...

 

LB

I'm sorry David, I didn't specifically mean to criticize Connor. I was just making a general observation about society in general. LOTS of people are guilty of this, not just Connor. Besides I was moody when I wrote that lol.

 

I have been trying to say the same thing LB, not sure why no one has picked up on it. Who is the real person being hurt here. I believe it is Connor.

 

I wrote my first post to this right after reading it so that i could put my emotions into words. I find it odd that no one has really responded to it. Maybe I sound like a rambling idiot, I don't know. But, the feelings were there and I felt them. I felt like I was Connor going through it.

 

I have said more than once, I know what Connor felt and he was completely justified in screaming at him. I am afraid if it would have been me, I not so sure that I would not have slugged him!! What Connor just went through, no one can understand unless you have been there! I have and he is true to life. Ryan needs to come clean and make things right with Connor, not the other way around.

 

Boxerdude.

I'm sorry, David. I didn't mean to cause any offense. Of course no one can really no how they'd react to something unless it happened to them. Sorry if I hurt you.

 

As I see it, it doesn't matter what anyone else happens to believe, but what the person speaking (Connor in this case) believes regarding the impact and meaning of his words.

Yes, you're right; the intent of the person saying the words does make a big difference.

 

I'm not going to use anyone else's issues here, so I'll use my own as an example. Yes, I've criticized Connor for being ungrateful towards Maggie. I've also said I think it's understandable. BUT, understandable DOES NOT equal right! But, does this minor character flaw make Connor any less human? Of course not. EVERYONE has them. And my point is this: You have created characters that readers are regarding as REAL PEOPLE! Therefor, of course you will get many people who dislike some small aspect of the character! Simply put, it's a sign that you have succeeded!

Exactly!

 

Anyway take care everyone and have a great day! I'm sorry if I accidently posted my last post twice, my computer was being funky. It never did show it posted at all :wacko:

 

Kevin

[VTicarus]

In fact, I have seen Connor get criticized for an awful lot of stuff that I would never imagine criticizing him for. It's really thrown me for a loop, and I don't really understand the reactions to Connor, in general. Perhaps that's why I've been having such a tough time writing lately ...

 

LB

 

I didn't say this very well before, but I'll give it another go. Let's see what bad cliches I could use. There is no I in team. All that glitters is not gold. It's like trying to herd cats? Or Australias Are you fair dinkum? (Are you being truthful with me.) I think it's the cat herding that comes nearest to this story. NO! THE INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM!

 

I don't think there is a single character in this household who is functioning on what most would consider a "normal" level of awareness. There is no one to be the rock, the foundation to support the others while they face their realities. How can you expect calm amid total chaos?

 

How can we blame one person, or root for another, when the web of emotions, evasions and internalization prevents any form of cooperation? I don't believe any character has lashed out with an INTENT to hurt or cause pain. (Even Connor quickly regrets his words and their affect.)Many have acted in a way, to their thinking, which leads to an ends they believe best for the others. They are just coping to the best of their ability.

 

Some understand Connor. Some understand Ryan. We need to offer understanding to them all. Was Connor right in flaming in and exploding at Ryan? No, not really. Even a two year old learns "use your words". Is Ryan justified in being devastated in Connor's fit? Yeah - I really believe he was putting himself through just as much pain wanting to follow through with the split - somthing he thought best for Connor's sake. Maggie - lost her partner in life, lost the chance for the stereotypical source of grandchildren, spends every waking moment trying to feel better by helping others - but it doesn't work.

 

That leaves Toby - the key? Of all of them, he is the only one who has demonstrated a real connection to his feelings and suffering. He is the only one who voiced the pain he felt at losing his father, etc.

 

More than anything else they need to actually talk to each other - about how they think, feel and hope. No one shares what is bothering them the most & causing their pain.

 

We need to cut EVERYONE a break, stop judging & be supportive "friends", no matter what choices they make.

 

Movies, TV and bad stories are predictable and wrap everything in a nice bow. Life & good stories don't always end cleanly, or happily ever after.

 

I am looking forward to 24, but also fearing my own hopes don't come true for my friends. I will hope they can be fair dinkum with themselves, and with the people they love.

 

Meanwhile, here in the real world, pray for peace. Thousands of children, the elderly and innocents are suffering for the sins of their fathers in the Middle East. Lets hope wisdom prevails.

 

C

Edited July 21, 2006 by VTicarus

[Boxerdude]

Kevin,

 

This first part is for you. You in no way have hurt me or offended me so no need to apologize. I guess I was reacting a part as a whole to everyone. I did not mean to sound like you had offened me. My point was mainly to wonder if anyone took the time to read how it affected someone they know here on the forum who has been through that experience. I wanted to share with everyone how well LB had written the chapter. Your posts are always great and do not shy away from them. I appreciate you very much especially in what you have to say. Your feelings and point of view are respected so keep it up!

 

Kitty,

 

As always, you are so good at redirecting the conversation. We have spent enought time talking about pain and hurt. It is time we go back to some other issues and discuss what do we think it will take to one, make the is a good stroy, 2) what so we think reality would hold for them in the future.

 

I am going to go back to a few chapters ago when I was really hoping for the rebuilding of friendships and the start of emotional healing. But, LB was wiser than me because he knew that the charactes needed to go to rock bottom first. Here is my comment from the Pre Release of chapter 22.

 

Okay, I will try again. I know this one has not been used and it very well could be about both Ryan and Toby.

 

Believe

Music by Elton John

Lyrics by Bernie Taupin

Available on the album Made In England

 

I believe in love, it's all we got

Love has no boundaries, costs nothing to touch

War makes money, cancer sleeps

Curled up in my father and that means something to me

Churches and dictators, politics and papers

Everything crumbles sooner or later

But love, I believe in love

 

I believe in love, it's all we got

Love has no boundaries, no borders to cross

Love is simple, hate breeds

Those who think difference is the child of disease

Father and son make love and guns

Families together kill someone

Without love, I believe in love

 

Without love I wouldn't believe

In anything that lives and breathes

Without love I'd have no anger

I wouldn't believe in the right to stand here

Without love I wouldn't believe

I couldn't believe in you

And I wouldn't believe in me

Without love

 

I believe in love

I believe in love

I believe in love

 

It meantions so much about what has happened, I thought it would be a good title for this next chapter. Love is what will save this family and everyone around them. It did for Connor, now it will for the those that Connor can touch. He has it in him, it is his gift to give his love, friendship, and help his lover!!

 

I still think this says what I really feel inside and is even more applicable to the stroy at hand. "Love Cocurs All!" I think this chapter is in need of some real loving!! As is the world around us.

 

Boxerdude

[C James]

I'm sorry if I accidently posted my last post twice, my computer was being funky. It never did show it posted at all :wacko:

 

It's OK, Kevin... we all know that what you were really trying to do is build up your post total so that you could read in the "sneak peeks" forum...

 

I don't think there is a single character in this household who is functioning on what most would consider a "normal" level of awareness. There is no one to be the rock, the foundation to support the others while they face their realities. How can you expect calm amid total chaos?

 

If so, that IMHO makes them a rather typical family...

 

As an alternative, I'd suggest now looking at it in a different way. How could the concepts of forgiveness, compromise, acceptance of others and of ourselves, as we are, in all of our imperfection, play into what's happening in the story?

 

Perhaps one of the themes here is that no one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, bad choices, etc, on occasion? Or, that it's wrong to judge someone on the whole based on just the apparent aspects of their personality?

[Boxerdude]

I'm not sure I wanted us not to be aware of the pain and hurt, so much as to find different ways of being present to them.

Kitty

 

I think I am missing what you are trying to say. Usually I understand clearly, this time I am confussed. I understand that there are different kinds of pain, and different ways of it being presented, but how does that reflect on my comment. I think that we have coverered all the different pain issues and I was trying to project the thought of different recovery methods. Put the pain behind us and move forward to the healing issues. So, if I am missing the point please be frank with me.

 

Boxerdude

[JK020489]

K starting with the easy part of this discussion, Maggie, Conner didnt really seem to get that mad at her. True he has been ungreatful but the tiny advice he does get from her is short and not really explained to him. In his eyes she doesnt want them together and doesnt care about the mbreaking up.

 

Now on to Conner. Conner got mad at ryan and he had every right 2. he deserved an explation instead of just being dropped but ryan has a hard time explaing his feelings. Also he crossed the line really bad with ADD comment. it was really f**ked up.

 

This is exactly what ryan needed thou to be smacked to reality. I have some odd feeling Ryan didnt leave and will talk to conner but who knows with that kid. he's so confused before losing mikey and his brother getting sick and sadly its gotten much worse. I have ADD as well and if i went through what he did i would go insane and be lost.

 

Now on to the last dilema, Conner and Ben. i think conner is just looking for love and someone to help him understand whats going on around him. as said many times before that boy is on his way to a huge mental break down, much bigger then the one with ryan. Ben seems confused and it will be interesting to see what happens with him.

 

Great story and I can't wait for the next chapter!

[petefromoz]

I have a really hard time accepting that Connor didn't have a "right" to flip out a bit at Ryan.

 

In fact, I have seen Connor get criticized for an awful lot of stuff that I would never imagine criticizing him for. It's really thrown me for a loop, and I don't really understand the reactions to Connor, in general. Perhaps that's why I've been having such a tough time writing lately ...

 

LB

 

This is a very interesting and telling point, and a fascinating insight into perspectives...

 

On the one hand, we have the audience, who knows Conner only via his descriptions of his own observations and actions. On the other, we have LB, who knows Connor better than anyone (including Connor himself), and (crucially) has access to an "objective" view of events (since he's creating them).

 

Further complicating matters is the fact that Connor is the protagonist, the "hero / good guy" character, and thus there are (unwritten) expectations as to how he "should" behave.

 

So who's right? Funnily enough, possibly none of us. LB has a Connor in his head, there's a Connor on the page, and we each have a Connor in our heads. They're not actually the same person, but they do share some common characteristics. Alas, we can't see each other's Connor, and they're all coloured by our own experiences, so it's almost impossible to truly understand why others feel the way they do about him.

 

Personally, there are times when I want to tie him to a chair and explain (with diagrams if necessary) exactly how he's screwing up the best thing that's happened to him, until he gets it. (Other times I just want to hug him tight and tell him that he is truly loved, whether he realises it or not, and that things will get better).

 

He's an incredibly complicated individual for one so young, due in large part to the scars from the burdens he's had to carry. People want him to be kind, and good, and noble, and happy. Regrettably, that's a hard ask even for the best of us some days.

 

All we can honestly ask of him is the same thing we should ask of ourselves. Have patience. Have faith. Trust that the universe knows what it's doing, and that all will be revealed in due course.

 

-- Pete

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Very insightful post, Pete. Thank you.

 

LB

[Wind Dancer]

I definatly agree with Pete.

It's interesting but, depsite the descriptions given, I tend to branch out and make the charactors my own. That's why I hate when hollywood makes movies out of books. Like connor, I picture him pretty short. Ryan's really tall and has dark hair and green eyes. Not redheadded like the story.

I find that in most of my writings I tend to forget descriptions of charactors. Mostly because I don't want people to leave off descriptions.

This is kind of like the perception thing Pete talked about. Props on that!

 

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[C James]

I definatly agree with Pete.

It's interesting but, depsite the descriptions given, I tend to branch out and make the charactors my own. That's why I hate when hollywood makes movies out of books. Like connor, I picture him pretty short. Ryan's really tall and has dark hair and green eyes. Not redheadded like the story.

I find that in most of my writings I tend to forget descriptions of charactors. Mostly because I don't want people to leave off descriptions.

This is kind of like the perception thing Pete talked about. Props on that!

 

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I do the same thing regarding character descriptions and visualizing them. For example, I just can't stand really short (buzz cut) hair, so if that's mentioned I just imagine it a bit longer (hey, hair can grow, right?).

 

Interestingly, I originally envisioned Connor as much smaller, perhaps due to the fact he was being beaten at home. Turned out I was wrong on his size based on later descriptions, and also LB's choice of a "picture of Connor" on the story page. (which is very hot, BTW).