Canada's Top 5 Cities

[Jack Scribe]

For those who might be planning on visiting this beautiful part of North America, here's a rundown from Planet Out:

 

http://planetout.com/travel/article.html?s...avpath=/travel/.

 

I'm ready to pack, head north and check it out!

 

Jack

[Jack Frost]

Don't go to Winnipeg...it's boring being stuck right in the middle of nowhere. Same thing for Saskatchewan.

 

Montreal...hell sure you should GO!!! I lived there up to a year now so far and that's where my school is.

 

Vancouver is really nice. British Columbia is extremely beautiful in nature.

 

Edmonton is okish.

 

Toronto sucks...I just can't help myself not saying that since I'm well used to Montreal and I got the Montrealer mentality...the mentality to hate Toronto for everything. Well, whole Canada hates Toronto too.

[rknapp]

Pfft... Canadians...

[Bondwriter]

Don't go to Winnipeg...it's boring being stuck right in the middle of nowhere. Same thing for Saskatchewan.

I actually enjoyed Winnipeg. I see what you mean, Jacques, but it may be cool too to be stuck in the middle of nowhere. Maybe a matter of how long you're there. And the city does look like Chicago (outside the Loop). Only drawback: it's full of Manitobans, and these people are Canadians.

[Jack Frost]

I actually enjoyed Winnipeg. I see what you mean, Jacques, but it may be cool too to be stuck in the middle of nowhere. Maybe a matter of how long you're there. And the city does look like Chicago (outside the Loop). Only drawback: it's full of Manitobans, and these people are Canadians.

If I really I want to be in the middle of nowhere...I'd go to Yellowknife, NWT or Invuik, NWT, or a small village on those artic islands of Nunavut.

[Duncan Ryder]

I can't seem to open the article but imho...

 

Toronto is a fabulous city. It's Canada's national passtime to hate it, just as it is the US passtime to hate New York, and Torontonians couldn't care less. I'm sorry, but that's generally because they don't understand or appreciate it or find it's size and speed a little scary or they've never been there at all. I adore Toronto passionately (and no I'm not from Toronto and I don't live there now, though I have and no doubt will again.) Toronto is big and beautiful and full of life, has great museums, art galleries, cultural life, restaurants, fashion, but also lovely neighbourhoods, parks, beautiful places to walk and to just to be. Toronto is a city of neighbourhoods, much like London, so you can know parts of it intimately and still have no sense of the whole. Toronto is also, has been for about five years now (passing Paris according to the UN) the most culturally diverse city in the world now. There are parts of it where you would swear you were in China, or India, or Korea, or the middle east... so deliciously foreign you'd swear you were in anothr country. The lovely thing is, for the most part it all works. (my favourite story is of a Mosque and a synanagogue that share a parking lot and organize good works together... ) Not there aren't problems, but I'll tell you, I'd rather have Toronto's problems than just about any other city I know's problems....

 

Montreal is delicious, lovely, very European, fashionable, and considers itself superior in every way to Toronto and probably ever other place in the world. Torontonians love to play in Montreal and Montrealers don't like to play in Toronto far as I can tell. I don't think they like to play anywhere but Montreal, except to show everyone how much better they know how to play (and do just about anything else...)! There is nothing in North America to compare to it. Its fashion absolutely surpasses Toronto (you can walk into a room and ALWAYS pick out the Montrealler by the clothes), and frankly so do its restaurants (it has that European reality to it; Toronto takes itself a little too seriously, tries to hard to do what Montreal just is.) I totally adore Montreal, work there from time to time, and spend weekends there when I can.

 

Winnipeg...I don't know Winnepeg well, only been there twice for a couple of days each time. What I have read about Winnipeg is that it has a rich cultural life, and that the music scene esp. is surprisingly good. For those of you who are into vintage rock and roll, it produced The Guess Who and Neil Young, and for movie afficionados, Guy Maddin....and they've left a real mark on the city's sense of its own culture.

 

Edmonton...I like going to Edmonton...but frankly the best thing I can think of to say about it is that it isn't Calgary. Which is ugly, crass, full of new oil money, and very, well, never mind. Calgary's a boom town and has a boom town mentality, and its all about money money money.

 

Vancouver, ah Vancouver. It has the worst slum and drug scene in North America, a small area right up against their Chinatown, and I accidently found myself in it last summer and it scared the crap out of me. I've never been scared in a Canadian city before. Otherwise, its gorgeous, and it has moutains and a beautiful Chinese garden. I always feel sad somehow when I leave Vancouver though... I've had bad luck there weatherwise (it rains all the time...like London), the mountains can be oppressive if you aren't used to them, and I never feel I had quite as good a time or apprciated it quite as much as I should have.

[Tiger]

I've never even been to Canada. I have actually always wanted to go to Toronto and Montreal. From what I've heard they're great cities to visit. I don't know why people would hate Toronto, because it sounds like the place to be. I have to wait for Montreal though, because I really don't know the language. I'll keep that in mind about Vancouver. I know what the ghettos are like, and they're certainly not fun.

[Dolores Esteban]

I spent a few months in Toronto. Never go there in winter. I went back home in May. There was still snow in Toronto. I spent my life mainly underground. After a few weeks I was blinded when I got out and caught a glimpse of the blue sky. There was a cold wind always. Crossing a street was a fight against it. However, I would not want to miss the time I spent there. I'm going back some day, for a visit, and only in summer.

 

[Cynical Romantic]

Interesting discussion topic.

 

Duncan, I get what you're saying about the Toronto-hatred being a bit knee-jerk and overblown, and maybe this is just my lifelong habit as a Montrealer speaking, but I have to say, I really agree with Jack on this one: Toronto sucks.

 

Yes, everything you said about it is true. It's diverse and lively and has good cultural scenes and all that. But there's just this feeling to the city - and I've been there dozens, if not hundreds, of times - that every single time I go there, I end up with a headache. It's the way everything is grid-like, the way the restaurants all require reservations and the nightlife is inextricably linked to the day job, with people going out more for the purpose of exchanging business cards than exchanging good conversation. It's a clich

[Duncan Ryder]

Interesting discussion topic.

 

Duncan, I get what you're saying about the Toronto-hatred being a bit knee-jerk and overblown, and maybe this is just my lifelong habit as a Montrealer speaking, but I have to say, I really agree with Jack on this one: Toronto sucks.

 

Yes, everything you said about it is true. It's diverse and lively and has good cultural scenes and all that. But there's just this feeling to the city - and I've been there dozens, if not hundreds, of times - that every single time I go there, I end up with a headache. It's the way everything is grid-like, the way the restaurants all require reservations and the nightlife is inextricably linked to the day job, with people going out more for the purpose of exchanging business cards than exchanging good conversation. It's a clich

[Graeme]

My brother told me yesterday that he and his family will be moving to Montreal for a few years for work. He told me that it's a lot like Melbourne with French add, and about 10 degrees colder.... One of my brother-in-laws agreed. If Montreal is so much like Melbourne in atmosphere, it must be a good place to be

[wildone]

Oh Duncan, you've got me going now!!!

 

So you wonder why the rest of Canada hates Toronto so much?

 

I'm curious if other members saw what was in your post that most of the rest of Canada sees in the comments of people from Toronto, or those that are from there and want to return to there.

 

Torontonians love to play in Montreal and Montrealers don't like to play in Toronto far as I can tell

 

but frankly the best thing I can think of to say about it is that it isn't Calgary. Which is ugly, crass, full of new oil money, and very, well, never mind. Calgary's a boom town and has a boom town mentality, and its all about money money money.

 

 

Vancouver, ah Vancouver. It has the worst slum and drug scene in North America, a small area right up against their Chinatown, and I accidental found myself in it last summer and it scared the crap out of me. I've never been scared in a Canadian city before

 

 

Calgary feels American to me. Toronto does not --

 

 

Toronto, despite all its changes, has that "Toronto the good" root, the politeness, the British/Scots restraint, reserve.

 

 

I do find it interesting that Torontonians tend to be very generous in their love for Montreal, while Montrealers...never!

 

 

. And try to talk to a Calgarian about Toronto, lol. Disaster (esp since most of them are transplanted easterners. Actually the WORST Calgarians are transplanted English Quebecers, sorry, but it's true, at least that's been my experience.)

 

 

Now if you think I pulled just quotes of your negative comments, go back and with maybe the exception of Montreal, find a positive quote about anywhere else in Canada without a jab in the same sentence.

 

The way I've always felt is that people who love Toronto, or even love it so much they live there, they are so busy insulting everybody else that they fail to see why everybody else doesn't care for them. Unfortunately it is my experience that this is an inherent trait of Torontonians, "We're better than you so there"

 

You do have one point, probably the biggest haters of Toronto are people who have left Toronto and seen the city for what it is.

 

In the end though, I'm not upset with your posts, I just write it off as being from someone that has lived in Toronto .

 

Steve

[Duncan Ryder]

Lol. I knew if I defended Toronto bad things would happen!!!

 

I'm not from Toronto nor do I live there. (I wasn't even born in Canada....) But I feel obliged to defend it because no one else does, and I think that's really unfair, and I was making a point of focusing on the good side. I knew lots of people would be happy to point out the bad.

 

The last four quotes aren't fair...because I was defending Toronto agaisnt specific claims. And I did agree with Cyn's points, just saying that they weren't the only face of Toronto.

 

I didn't say anything bad about Winnipeg. Didn't even mention the cold...and I've been in Winnipeg in mid Feb. when it's, well, I expect you know how cold it is. And I only mentioned the drug problem in Vancouver because it's in the news so much and it puts people off and I think it's fair to warn people away from the area because you can find yourself in it without meaning to. The rest of the city that I've seen is absolutely gorgeous.

 

Other wonderful cities: St John's. Ottawa. Halifax. Quebec City. Regina. Saskatoon.

 

I'll try to think of something good about Calgary ... Wait.... it's near Banff. And Drumheller and the Bandlands are pretty cool.

 

Want me to say bad things about Toronto? I can do that too.

 

In addition to Cyn's points, which I mostly agreed are a valid face of the city, it's noisy. And it's it gotten dirtier. And there are beggers in the streets. It's commercial, very commercial. There is that live to work thing... It's self conscious, all that "world class city" stuff is stupid and gets real tired real fast. I personally HATE the club distirict; all the suburbanites land there to party and puke, far as I can tell. It's very expensive. The transportation infrastructure is suffering. It has some absolutely hideous industrial areas, and a corridor with significant violence (though a tourist is highly unlikely to find him/herself there.) The big festivals...Carribana, Taste of hte Danforth etc -- have gotten so big and so popular they're no fun for locals any more. They have totally mismanaged the waterfront, and the expressway that cuts it off from the city is an embarrassment. The city streets are so crowded that rush hour is a total nightmare. I hate driving in Toronto with a passion.

 

And it yes it does tend to think of itself as the centre of the Canadian universe (though literally that would be Winnipeg) and that gets real old.

 

Ok?

 

 

 

Oh Duncan, you've got me going now!!!

 

So you wonder why the rest of Canada hates Toronto so much?

[wildone]

Hey, I liked you before, and I still like you .

 

I've come to accept that people live in different areas of the country because they have different interests.

 

It is always good to visit different cities and yes, I can say some things about other cities that I don't like but always realize that obviously there is something there that keeps them there.

 

Also, to clarify for our out of country friends , Toronto at 5 million people is the largest city in Canada. All 3 major network newscasts are all from Toronto and unfortunately a lot of the news is about Toronto. This is probably the biggest beef for people outside of Toronto, as we figure they don't know there is a country outside of the 416 area code (and yes I'm dating myself with that reference).

 

I imagine Freud could have found a relationship between penis envy and Toronto envy .

[Cynical Romantic]

My brother told me yesterday that he and his family will be moving to Montreal for a few years for work. He told me that it's a lot like Melbourne with French add, and about 10 degrees colder.... One of my brother-in-laws agreed. If Montreal is so much like Melbourne in atmosphere, it must be a good place to be

 

Yes, Montreal and Melbourne have a very similar "feel" to them. Both are arts- and cafe-culture cities (though Melbourne obviously has a beach, and Montreal doesn't). The climate is much harsher here, much snowier in the wintertime, so don't let the 10 degrees fool your brother into thinking it will be an easy adjustment - it won't! But beyond that, I definitely "got" the comparison that a lot of Australians make with Montreal being akin to the "Melbourne" and Toronto akin to the "Sydney" of Canada - what with the tongue-in-cheek rivalry, and the general feel of each city, if not the climate.

 

Tell your bro if he needs any advice on Montreal to drop me a line.

[Cynical Romantic]

And on the Toronto thing: Wildone and Duncan both make good points:

 

• Yes, a lot of people outside Toronto hate Toronto just because so much of the national media is so heavily focused on Toronto. The "center of the universe-itis" tends to create a bit of an us-versus-them mentality which, while not totally justified, does aggravate the situation.
  
• Yes, there are other faces to Toronto than the one I just mentioned.
  
• Toronto has one of the worst urban sprawl problems of any city in North America. Brampton, Mississauga, Oakville, Oshawa, Whitby... how long until people start claiming that Ottawa is a suburb of Toronto? LOL. Seriously, this is part of what people hate about the city, and the cause of a lot of its other problems, namely the traffic and the pollution.
  
• Yes, we tend to "hate on" Toronto a bit undeservedly. It's not all that bad a place, all things considered. Plenty of people live with a very high quality of life there. It's got jobs, culture, arts, stability, and compared to a lot of places in the world, it's actually pretty good. It's a very Canadian thing to hate Toronto, though, if you live outside it, so maybe it gets a bit unfairly bashed. Still doesn't mean I'd want to live there.
  

 

And re the whole french thing....don't let that hold you back. You can manage just fine with Engish in Montreal. Quebec City is another matter, but Montreal is a bilingual city.

 

Yes, it is. I'm a fourth-generation Montrealer, fluently bilingual, and not at all "held back". I love it here. It's just not that unusual for Montreal anglophones to move to Toronto for jobs. Look at the numbers over the past fifteen, twenty years. The salaries are higher in Toronto, the opportunities are more plentiful, and in certain fields - like mine (advertising) - it's something everyone has to either do or purposely reject somewhere along the way. It's not enough to be merely bilingual in Quebec to get ahead; there are still a lot of barriers for the non-"pure-laine" here, though unspoken, particularly in certain fields. For more of a perspective on this issue, see here.

 

But for me, it's more about the "soul" of a place. I have deep roots here and though I've done a ton of traveling, I firmly believe Montreal is one of the greatest places in the world to live. I've made a conscious decision to stay here, accepting certain sacrifices in exchange for a quality of life that's second to none. And I'm happy with that decision. But I have lots of friends and relatives who've made the trek down the 401 and are now in Toronto, and they're happy to varying degrees too (though they'll never stop complaining about the lack of decent bagels and smoked meat). Everyone's gotta do what's right for them.

 

 

Back to the original topic... if you're planning a trip to Canada as a tourist, Montreal in the summer is a can't-miss stop. Festival after festival. It's like one big 4-month-long party. Quebec City is also nice as a tourist destination, though I wouldn't want to live there; too much of a government town. Ditto Ottawa. I don't really "get" Toronto as a tourist destination. I mean, you see the CN Tower, the Hockey Hall of Fame, and... then what?

[Jack Frost]

Montreal is delicious, lovely, very European, fashionable, and considers itself superior in every way to Toronto and probably ever other place in the world. Torontonians love to play in Montreal and Montrealers don't like to play in Toronto far as I can tell. I don't think they like to play anywhere but Montreal, except to show everyone how much better they know how to play (and do just about anything else...)! There is nothing in North America to compare to it. Its fashion absolutely surpasses Toronto (you can walk into a room and ALWAYS pick out the Montrealler by the clothes), and frankly so do its restaurants (it has that European reality to it; Toronto takes itself a little too seriously, tries to hard to do what Montreal just is.) I totally adore Montreal, work there from time to time, and spend weekends there when I can.

It's so embarrassing to say this, but it's so true. I just realized how much I changed to be a Montrealer. I never really knew how to party until I moved to Montreal. I never knew how to dress better until I moved to Montreal. I never knew how to hate Toronto with passion until I moved to Montreal (I only went to Toronto once and...never again for a while...). I never knew a better place until I moved to Montreal.

 

Ehhhh vive la joie de vivre.

 

 

I have to wait for Montreal though, because I really don't know the language.

You'll be quite surprised how well you can get around not knowing French. Montreal is bilingual, despite that French has the main presence in everyday life. Go there anyway. If you just say a few words of French, you'll get some respect and answers in English (like bonjour, s'il vous pla

Edited September 29, 2008 by Jack Frost

[Cynical Romantic]

It's so embarrassing to say this, but it's so true. I just realized how much I changed to be a Montrealer. I never really knew how to party until I moved to Montreal. I never knew how to dress better until I moved to Montreal. I never knew how to hate Toronto with passion until I moved to Montreal (I only went to Toronto once and...never again for a while...). I never knew a better place until I moved to Montreal.

 

Ehhhh vive la joie de vivre.

 

Sounds like our beautiful city has sucked you in, heart and soul. Though we may not necessarily agree on politics, at least we agree on a few very important things: Montreal rocks, Toronto sucks, Habs rule, Leafs stink.

 

And jaywalking is much more efficient than waiting around at crosswalks, freezing your ass off. A local comedian put it best: We watch the cars, not the streetlights. I've never known anyone who's ever gotten hit by a streetlight.

 

The fashion and style thing I find a bit pretentious at times, mind you. I'm pretty laid-back, style-wise, and I'm in a very hip-and-trendy field where people tend to dress to impress. Sometimes it grates on my nerves. But then I travel somewhere like Atlanta or Winnipeg, and look around at all the people in their baggy jeans and mismatched oversized clothing, and just long to be back in a place where people know how to dress. Even if I don't always make the proper amount of effort myself.

 

Oh, and poutine is really a Quebec-only thing. Don't be upset that you can't get good poutine elsewhere; just enjoy it here and eat local specialties when you travel. Seriously, trying to replicate it outside of Quebec is an invitation for disaster.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Cynical Romantic

[Jack Frost]

Of course, I never put politcs up in front. As I said, I can completely respect you being hardcore federalist. I'm just stuck in the middle keeping my common sense over self-determination sympathies for nations without a state. I am very known to be nice and even make friends with Republicans despite my very liberal attidudes. I love Canada as much as Quebec, but I prefer living in Montreal and Quebec because they fit so well for me. Don't fret too much, ok? ;p

 

About the fashion, indeed I find Montrealers more stylists and avant-garde, but some of the people take it WAY TOO MUCH. But again, it wouldn't be the same if we stop gawking at men wearing girlish headbands to hold back the hair and use too much pink for their tshirt collection. Or girls looking too much like Barbie. I spent last summer working and spending times with my family in Pennsylvania and when I came back to Montreal, I never have realized how hot the guys are in Montreal compared to Pennsylvania due to sense of style. I mean... Just damn... It'd be impossible not to find a good looking one in any block. In PA, I could find many blocks not like that. Well, I won't count my moments where I live in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve...with all of the guys in baggy pants (I still like living there though).

 

But many people almost got hit by a car. Me included... I just yell swear words in Quebecois. One of the best way you can tell whether the person is a tourist or not by watching him actually stopping for a streetlight...even if there are no cars around.

 

I think another best thing Montreal can offer to anyone, tourists and city folk alike, is that nature is always in the middle. If I want to get in touch with my inner-love for nature (I grew up in the mountains and woods)... I just go to Mont Royal and walk all over the trails on the mountain. I should do that soon...the trees are changing colours now.

 

So everyone... SEE MONT ROYAL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh yeah, Graeme... Tell your brother that it is guanateed he'll fall on his ass at least once every winter. It happens to me every winter. Oh god...and it's not very pleasant to fall on the sidewalks covered with ice and snow. The pain won't go away for a couple days.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Jack Frost

[Myk]

Edmonton...I like going to Edmonton...but frankly the best thing I can think of to say about it is that it isn't Calgary. Which is ugly, crass, full of new oil money, and very, well, never mind. Calgary's a boom town and has a boom town mentality, and its all about money money money.

 

Hey!! What the hell is wrong with Calgary?!? There are soooo many great things about it, and no, not just the other attractions/cities it is close to, it is great on its own. You are obviously not from Alberta, cause all Albertans know that Edmonton is a hole compared to Calgary....except for maybe the university. The people of Calgary are generous and friendly, making Calgary one of the biggest volunteering cities in Canada....if not North America.

 

I do find it interesting that Torontonians tend to be very generous in their love for Montreal, while Montrealers...never! They just don't give TO a chance <G> though so many of them move there..... And try to talk to a Calgarian about Toronto, lol. Disaster (esp since most of them are transplanted easterners. Actually the WORST Calgarians are translplanted English QUebecers, sorry, but it's true, at least that's been my experience.)

 

Yes, almost everyone in Calgary is from somewhere else in Canada or the US.....but that is because we have the strongest economy in all of Canada. We have the jobs, so people come and the province has supported almost all the others through equalization payments.

 

Me, well I'm at least a fourth generation Calgarian, which is pretty rare. There are truely amazing parts of Calgary, but you wouldn't know that if you were blinded by a few things on the surface.....or maybe you are just jealous of what we have managed to build there.....

 

Greg