AFriendlyFace

** 's Ieshwar** I think it does get easier to meet other gay people in college. If you're still considering going to school in England or Europe I have little doubt that you'll meet a ton if you give it a try

I'm really glad you're happy Although, I will mention that it might be a little hard to meet other gay guys in that fashion. Most of the guys you meet at football games for example probably won't be gay (they may be don't get me wrong, but there's less of a chance than say, at a musical). Also, you'll be with your straight guy friends and you're not out to them so you won't really be able to pursue anything...plus they will probably be in a similar boat. I'm not trying to be negative though, and if you're happy then you should definitely keep doing that. Well, personally I agree with you on this issue. It's interesting, this reminds me very much of a recent heated debate I had with a friend of mine...really don't want to get into it again, but what it came down to (in my eyes that is), is him differentiating between one group of people over another in terms of who should have more rights, safety, prosperity, etc. Personally I find this completely unacceptable people are people regardless of the borders in which they live, the colour of their skin, or the language they speak. You rock on dude! That's my attitude too. Often people will get annoyed that I don't spend my time worrying about terrorism, or homophobia, or the economy, or any other number of "problems", but that's my response too. I'll do what I can to make these things better, but in the end I'm just going to get on with my life and accentuate the positive instead. -Kevin

Ahhh, thanks Here you go, dude I was originally going to just post all the info here, but in case you want it private I just PM-d you instead. LOL, now you have no excuse. -Kevin

We occasionally have models at the ones in Houston too.

LOL, I was thinking that too. While we're on the topic of asking people questions though, you never answered mine from above, Menzo (granted it was buried in a very long response): I'm with Jamie on this one. Of course that's obvious since I do believe in meaning in a relative manner and not in an absolute manner...so obviously if something has relative meaning to someone it has as much meaning as possible (by my philosophy), which nevertheless gives it meaning. If something, let's say your own happiness, has meaning for you, Menzo, then why would you argue that that doesn't give it "actual meaning"? Why would "meaning in the broader sense", make something anymore meaningful? I realize of course that you're saying there is no "meaning in the broader sense"...and actually since that seems to be a synonym for "absolute, objective meaning" (which I agree doesn't exist), then I suppose we are in agreement. I guess what I'm asking is why relative meaning isn't enough for you to consider something "meaningful"? Perhaps I am selfish and egotistic (as you're arguing is a good thing) but if I consider something meaningful then it's damn well meaningful enough as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't think to call it unmeaningful...even if there were some objective standard of meaning and whatever it is I cared about failed to meet that standard I would still consider it more meaningful than this theoretical standard because it would have more meaning from my point of view (which is absolute - oh the irony - in terms of my feelings). The reason I'm so interested is that really it seems to me like the only major difference between our moral philosophies is that relative meanings and truths satisfy me and don't seem to satisfy you. We both seem to agree that absolute ones don't exist. I think I've clarified pretty well why I consider relative ones to be significant enough to consider. -Kevin

That would be my understanding of YY as well. Hmm, that's not completely true. I mean it is, but it's not the whole story. Variations do occur such as triple X syndrome (also known as Trisomy X) or XYY syndrome or Klinefelter's syndrome But yeah, as far as I know I don't think YY would be viable. In other words I don't think a YY baby would be carried to term. I could very easily be wrong of course. **shrug** -Kevin

Is it appropriate for you to tell me what FTW stands for? Don't worry about being "cut off" from the gay community. You may lose contact with your current friends (although if you really try I'm sure you can avoid that as well), but you can always re-establish contact at your new school in your new community Good Luck I'm sorry to hear about your ex, it is great that you and Michael have formed a close friendship though Beasty, I am so proud of you! Good luck with the activism and stuff Also, I just might go check out that thread. I hadn't really gotten around to reading it. That's awesome! You'll find that that's usually the case. I mean obviously the majority of conversations I have with my gay friends have absolutely nothing to do with being gay, or else being gay is simply an incidental part of that. That sounds wonderful! LOL, thanks, Menzo Actually I have a very positive bias toward lesbians (beyond just getting along with them I'd say). I think it's just life experiences. I've had quite a few very positive experiences with different lesbians, and they've always been there for me through rough times. As a result I automatically tend to trust them more and assume I'll like them when I first meet one. LOL, and coincidentally as I was replying to this thread I was sporadically texting back and forth with two of them -Kevin

*gasp* But I wasn't even here when this club was created. In fact surely I was one of the least prolific members at GA at that time!

I'm most certainly with Graeme on this one, on all points! Eugenics, while it might sound good on paper, can be a very dangerous and destructive thing in practice. Obviously, as Graeme pointed out the Nazi's did horrible things in the name of eugenics. I think we would also be foolish to think that gay people could never fall victim to eugenics if the rich, powerful, and homophobic had their way. I don't know about you guys, but I would find it remarkably appalling and all around blood boiling if people attempted to eliminate gay people from the gene pool, even if they didn't do anything to existing gays. Anyway, I think we (I) have gone off topic. I think Graeme's also quite right in that we would need to be certain that the children would be as healthy and safe as traditionally conceived kids. However, I most definitely support the idea in general as well as the (ethical of course) research in this area! I think it's wonderfully exciting! People often get up in arms when things are done to prevent or encourage conception that wouldn't normally take place. However, I most definitely favour this completely as long as the practices are safe. People should have kids when they're ready to and when they really want to, and they really shouldn't when they're are not. Just my thoughts, Kevin

Hi everyone! Graeme's comment about my "straight guy friends" thread being biased toward people who had a lot of gay friends got me thinking, and I'm sure he's right. For the last couple of years I've been very active in the GLBT community in my city, and I know alot of gay people. I almost exclusively go to gay bars and clubs, I belong to various equal rights and activism groups. Indeed, I think I want my long-term career to actively involve, if not be centered on gay rights, gay culture, and/or gay support. I also tend to hang out and go places in the "gay district" whenever possible, the parties I attend are usually hosted and attend by gay people, and of course all of my closest friends are either GLBT themselves, or actively supportive. So yeah, I kinda forget sometimes, especially here at GA which I consider to be yet another part of the gay community I love, enjoy, and am actively involved in, that not everyone who is gay knows a lot of gay people. Of course I know this intellectually, but it's something I sorta forget. Anyway, I guess the primary function of this poll/thread is actually to gage other people's level of involvement in the gay community, but of course mostly to gauge how many other gay people they know and what their degree of comfort and closeness with these people is. My poll results were, I have tons of gay friends, my best friends are gay, and I'd like more gay friends (they're delightful! They're just like candy! They come in all sorts of delicious flavours and varieties and I could happily have them all day long if I weren't concerned about them going to my butt (kidding!) ) So what are your experiences and situations? Take care all and have an awesome day! -Kevin

That sounds like a very healthy attitude! LOL, I actually knew what was...I can't quite comprehend why one would be so excited about owning one, but I know what one is. The only thing I've ever been excited about getting for my vehicle is Margaret (my GPS). LOL, I was going to say I'd probably enjoy the company of a metro straight guy friend more than regular straight guys. At least we could go shopping together, or get our hair done. I have this problem with my close female friends. They all eventually turn out to be lesbians! It doesn't piss me off, but it does amaze me. Hmm, why do I suspect you don't mean like 'the centers of photographs' or 'the glass on their mirrors' with that comment? EDIT: Sorry, I cross posted with Graeme. For some reason I have a tendency to forget that not all gay people know a lot of other gay people in real life. Anyway, you could still want MORE straight male friends, even if you've already got plenty. Sorry for the thoughtlessness though.

Hmmm, I think I know of an author who might be up to the challenge... Ohhh, that does sound like quite a story! I love happy endings

Well of course I'd be willing to date a "Ben". I don't really care for the labels, and I guess if you are going to stick them on people I'd go with a "middle of the road" kind of gay guy ideally. However, I'd most definitely be more comfortable dating someone more toward the Femme side of the spectrum than the Butch side. Would I be embarrassed? Of course not! Actually, I thought that was really awesome and it made him seem more attractive to me. Forgiveness is HOT! -Kevin

It's good to see you again, Gearoid

Hmm, well I certainly agree that there may not be very much practical reason to further discuss it. I was just having a really good time discussing it. Indeed, I can say without reservation that I've enjoyed this thread more than any other in recent memory (not that I haven't enjoyed the others as well of course). Also, I feel like discussing it and thinking about it so deeply has helped me further flesh it out in my own mind. It's given me new things to think about as well. Finally, I feel as though I know additional (and very relevant information IMO) about the people involved in this discussion. I do feel a bit closer to them That certainly makes sense, and I'll sit here and define my concept of a moral system all day (and enjoy it ), but of course when it comes down to it I agree that the important thing is just that it works for me. -Kevin

Would he object to you being more out in these contexts? I assume that the part about wanting to sit down with other guys in your life that you know are gay and just be frank with them would of course more than likely end up outting him as well, so I suppose I can see his point there (although of course personally I would certainly be comfortable being out to other gay people...but then I'm pretty out in general so I suppose it is different). My question then, is would he have a problem with you going to the Dallas convention by yourself (or would you have a problem with this?) Just because he doesn't want to go meet and mingle doesn't seem like a reason for you not to. I mean especially in this context none of us have ever even met him, nor are we ever likely to unless he wants to meet us. He'd be no more out either way. He would still just be "Tom's boyfriend" in our minds, just as he is now. Just curious, Kevin

I was well aware of this since it corresponded with the most recent time I was away significantly for an extend period. Of course it didn't surprise me much that there were a couple of new, very active faces. The time before Ieshwar and Bestkid wandered in, and before that Francois (bondwriter). Actually if I recall correctly I wasn't particularly active when FrenchCandian and WildOne (and undoubtedly quite a few other current active members) showed up either. Obviously it's been a pleasure for me to get to know you all, so I'm always eager to see who'll show up next when I'm not around

Hi everyone, This poll is only about our friendships with straight guys. I've recently become very aware that several of my friends long for more or closer friendships with straight guys. A few of my friends already seem to have a few, or a few very good ones, and they're always trumpeting them to be the best thing since sliced bread. Frankly, I don't really see the big appeal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to criticise straight guys. I'm sure they can make really excellent friends, especially on a case by case basis. As a whole though, I'm not super eager to befriend them. A little about my history. From kindergarten through high school most of my closet friends were straight guys, with only a few notable exceptions. I had very satisfying friendships with them, and I never doubted their loyalty. I've never actually had a notable bad experience with a straight guy, and certainly not one I used to be close with. It's not like I've gotten "burned" or anything. Instead, it's more life I've grown away from them. I wasn't out till after high school nor did I have any interest in being so. Once I came out though, and developed more friendships with other gay guys, lesbians, and straight women I found that I just "clicked" better with them. I felt more connected. Don't get me wrong, I really cared about my old straight friends, it just felt like I didn't have much in common with them anymore, and the conversations and activities with the other three demographics were usually much more interesting and satisfying. Gradually I lost touch with my straight male friends. Several of them I miss, and I suppose I really ought to make an effort to reconnect. However, I really only miss them because I used to care alot about them and we used to share our lives. Making new straight guy friends just isn't as appealing without the old history, and even with the old friends, given our geographic distance and completely different interests, goals, and life styles (many of which have nothing to do with sexuality and are instead simply related to people going different directions after high school), I don't see how we'd maintain a re-established friendship. Anyway, point is, I have fond memories of these guys and I'd be happy to see them, but in the same way that I'd be happy to see an old friend whom I've lost touch with in any of the other demographics. As things stand right now, I don't have any close friendships with straight guys. I have a few casual, pleasant friendships with some guys from church, and I always develop casual friendships with my male-coworkers, but while I've gone with them on group outings and parties and stuff, I can't think of any times in which I felt compelled to socialize with any of them on a one-on-one basis. I'm really quite satisfied with this. I have quite a few very close gay male and lesbian friends, and some really significant friendships with straight girls. I find this more than satisfying socially (usually I love it, but sometimes I even wish I had a little more time to myself). So I guess what I'm asking is: What's the big appeal? What exactly do you get from your friendships with straight guys that you can't from anyone else? (I usually get the generic "guy stuff" answer, but I get the guy stuff from my gay male friends). Do you yourself have a longing for more straight guy friendship? As a former psychology major I can't help but try to analyze people (okay, actually enjoy it ). My conclusion is that most gay males who want more friendships with straight males are trying to work out earlier feelings of rejection that they experienced from straight males. They find it particularly affirming to their masculinity and self-esteem to have friendships with these straight males. I can get that I suppose, and if that's the case then as long as they're fairly aware of it and still accept themselves, I guess it can be healthy. Personally though, I feel like I've "had my fill" of friendships with these guys, and I actually tend to find my friendships with GLBT people more satisfying and affirming. With straight women...I guess I just often do find them interesting and find that we "click" fairly well. Of course I'm completely labeling and stereotyping people. I'm aware of that. I don't actually see my friends as "gay guy", "straight girl", "lesbian", "straight guy". I see them all as individuals and I relate to them on an individual basis. I'm just generalizing here. Obviously I can easily imagine meeting a straight guy I click really well with and having him become a close friend. It's certainly possible and if it happened then of course I would be glad. I would just be glad because "hey look a new friend". His gender and sexuality would be incidental. So thought? BTW: my poll answers were, I have a few straight guy friends, most of them are casual, and I'm comfortable with things as they are. Take care all, Kevin

It ends in "@msn.com" I believe the only way you could have one of these is if you'd at one point had MSN as an ISP

Well, perhaps it's just me that's vulnerable to this problem, but I find my participation here is always random and erratic at best. For example today I've been very active, yesterday I didn't log on once. Theoretically I could finish posting today and not post again in the general forums for two or three weeks...or I might post 10-20 posts a day over the next two or three weeks (I've certainly done both these things on many occasions in the past). That's why I would find it difficult to nail down even a semi-accurate forecast of activity, at least for myself. Too much depends on external factors. -Kevin

Fascinating article! I really like it's central message that gay and straight relationships have a lot to learn from each other! I certainly can't imagine yelling very often (if ever) during an argument with a partner, so this seems to hold true. It's not our fault we're innately witty I agree with the speculation and explanations offered by the article and the other poster in this thread for the most part. Fascinating! I'm not sure what I think about this. Too much unresolved tension over a long period of time would certainly sour me on the relationship. However, apathy does seem pretty destructive too. Obviously, the idea solution would be to feel, express, and resolve the tension as it arises. Failing that, which of the two options (prolonged tension or apathy) would I find more damaging to my relationship...well I would certainly think tension intellectually. Perhaps I would find it to be different in the actual relationship, but I think unresolved tension would burn me out and make me break up more quickly than apathy. Apathy might be more personally painful in the long-run if after several years I found myself in a loveless, unsatisfying relationship but lacked the momentum to leave it. But that's precisely the point, I would endure the apathy longer whereas I'd have probably long ago resolved or walked out on the tension. I'm going to disagree. I do agree that the researchers aren't making perfectly comparable comparisons, but I think that's almost impossible to do in the first place, and it's certainly impossible if we're discussing US couples who can't have a federally sanctioned marriage at this time. The best they can do is ask long-term gay couples who "consider" themselves to be married to participate. Also, I think that while people may possibly be mislead by and not realize these differences, I think that some research and information is certainly better than none. Also, the article itself seems to handle these differences (and indeed discuss them) in an open, sensitive manner. If someone does conclude the wrong thing, I think that's a problem of the person and not the research. Also, I feel like this article's general positive slant outweighs any potential harm. Also, while I won't quote them, I think Zot, Rec, and Jamie made some really excellent points! I certainly have every confidence that you guys will be just fine Hmm, yes and no IMO. I think younger people in general might face more difficulties in maintaining a close intimate relationship simply because they may change and evolve as people, and there's also so many external factors in their lives at that age (school, work, family, etc.) that could pull them apart. This is true for gay, straight, and lesbian youth IMO. Once you're older and more settled in on you career, place to live, and familial role I think it gets a little bit easier. I see a very positive trend among today's gay youth in terms of their attitudes toward relationship, self-esteem, and general psychological health and I think these things will certainly be major boons to them when they form their relationships! Have an awesome day all Kevin

That sounds like a good theory. I'm a tad confused I think. Logging into MSN how? You mean logging in then logging out of the email address twice in a row? Using the messenger (which is actually linked to the hotmail account ) or logging on to MSN as a browser (which I don't think I've done in a good 6 or 7 years). EDIT: I just tried logging out of the email account and then logging back in again and it still did the same thing.

You succeeded in scaring me...till I realized that I don't mind if the government has access to my coupon offers, ads about penile enlargement, and links to straight porn

Personally, I think that's his business. It wouldn't be a good enough reason for me to stay in the closet in general. It may be a good enough reason for me to not come out to said Mormon parents, but in any case I respect Tom's prerogative to choose. (I'm sure you weren't actually criticising his freedom to do so either, as much as you were stating your opinion) I'm sorry that happened to you, Menzo. Obviously I could prattle on with clich

Hi everyone, I just thought I'd pose a question to those more technologically savvy than myself. Recently, for about the last two weeks I would say, I've been noticing a very odd problem with one of my email accounts. I have several email accounts including an exceedingly old MSN account (back before broadband was common and MSN was actually my dial-up ISP) and a much more recent hotmail account. Anyway obviously I now log into both using the hotmail page. Well there's no issue at all with the hotmail account I only mention it as a relevant contrast. However, every time I first attempt to log into the MSN account it tells me my password is incorrect and to try again. I then type my password again and it logs me on. At first I was barely cognizant of this occurrence. I assumed that I'd made a typo while typing too quickly. Then I noticed that I always seemed to "make a typo" on my first attempt, yet never on my 2nd. So for the past week I've been very carefully typing my password just as it's supposed to be. It still tells me it's incorrect on the first try, then I type the identical password again and it happily logs me in on the 2nd attempt. It hasn't logged me in a single time on the first try since I've noticed this happening. So anyone know why (or have a theory)? My password is not incorrect, I'm not mistyping it, and I'm not doing anything at all different the 2nd time. I don't particularly care since it's not that big a deal to just re-type it. However, I am very curious, and I'm also concerned that this could be the beginning of a more serious problem. The only thing I've been able to guess is that perhaps the MSN account is too old? Or maybe I have some sort of very odd virus? **shrugs** Take care all and thanks for any info/suggestions, Kevin