AFriendlyFace

Hi all, So I absolutely do not mean this thread to be at all offensive to biological females who pass as male. In fact I hope ultimately for it to be affirming. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately; I thought I'd start a thread on it. -First the case of Dr. James Barry. I actually don't find that wiki link to be nearly as informative as the info I've heard on him (I'll use the pronoun 'him' since that seems to be how this person chose to live his life and what he would have preferred). Basically he was a very famous and successful British army doctor who eventually attained the highest rank possible for an army doctor and led a very successful and noteworthy life. Upon his death it was discovered that he was biologically female. (The wiki casts more doubt on that than I've heard in the past, but I'll concede it's possible he was intersex or that this is all just speculation and he was a 'regular' male). -Second the case of Billy Tipton. Billy was a noted jazz musician who actually married several times and had several relationships with women. Once again it was revealed after his death that he was biologically female. -The third case is a more 'personal' one. A good friend of mine (female) was seeing this guy for over a year. They'd had sex and been very intimate when at last the person revealed that 'he' was actually a 'she'. They ultimately decided to continue their relationship. Anyway, these 'male impersonators' are very resourceful, talented, and convincing (I met my friend's partner and didn't know the difference). I really don't have a problem with this at all. I don't think it's quite the same as someone being a FTM transgendered; however in the first two cases maybe they were transgendered and that option simply wasn't open to them. In the third the person was actually deceiving my friend big time and leading a complete double life. She also identifies as a bisexual female (not male, transgendered, or as a lesbian). Basically I'm also a big proponent in people 'picking' their gender. Ultimately I think it's everyone's prerogative to live however they chose with regard to gender and sexuality. That said, I'm amazed simply at the sheer success these individuals had, living intimate lives with others who were not aware of their biological gender (while that gender remained unchanged surgically). My friend's 'boyfriend' (till he became her girlfriend), liked to do it in the dark, was always 'packing' a very realistic set of equipment, and never 'finished'. He also wore a 'back brace' which also flattened his chest. Yes, obviously upon reflection these were signs, but on the other hand "oh this must not really be a guy" isn't the first place you go when your boyfriend wears a back brace and/or has a proclivity for dimly lit intercourse. I can see how she might have been fooled, and obviously I wasn't having sex with the person myself so maybe I would have noticed. More than likely I'd have insisted that we do it with the lights on at some point and/or gently pressed for more exploratory sexual activities. Or maybe I'd have generally asked to at least watch 'him' climax on his own even if he couldn't do it in shared activities. Nevertheless, because I'm fairly sexual and sexually...uh 'creative' I think I'd have noticed at some point. However, I certainly can't be sure, especially if he was being very evasive, and I didn't want to invade his privacy or boundaries or make him feel threatened or angry. If I really cared for the 'guy' maybe I would have just accepted that he only did it with the lights off, and only in one or two ways without finishing. If you're in a relationship right now (gay male or straight female) imagine suddenly finding out that your boyfriend/partner/husband was in fact a female. How would that feel? Do you think this is something that could happen to you? Might you miss the signs that 'he' wasn't really male? -Kevin

Not to quibble, in fact I agree with you about the term having negative connotations, but just because something was once offensive or has offensive origins doesn't mean it necessarily has to remain so. Take the word "Queer" for example (which incidentally I do dislike, and personally avoid using or referring to myself as). It has fairly negative origins (you were basically calling gays "strange" or "odd") and it was definitely a very negative word for a long time. Nowadays it's much more acceptable. Regarding this word, I think it depends on where you grew up. I actually heard the word several times growing up, and I'm a bit surprised that others haven't. However, I grew up in the deep south, so maybe that's why. In the ways in which I typically heard it used it wasn't meant in an explicitly offensive way, though I concede it still wasn't politically correct. In any case, I wouldn't use it. With many things I avoid saying or doing them because I know they are offensive to some people even if they aren't offensive to me. With this particular word I wouldn't use it primarily because I do find it moderately offensive myself AND have no desire to use it. So I'm not trying to overly defend it by any means. I hope this doesn't offend any Italians (after all this whole thread is about ethnic and racial tastes and preferences, and here's a good example of someone who likes Italians), but personally I find them to be one of the least attractive ethnicities of white people. I find the Scandinavian look a lot more attractive. Generally I like the fairer complected white people. I like a good looking tan guy, but ideally I still like him with light hair and eyes, and primarily I don't want him hairy. Lots of white people with dark hair and eyes I do find very attractive, but with Italians there's too big a 'risk' that they'll be hairy. I also don't generally like the facial structure or body type/build. Anyway, this isn't definitive by any means. As I said, I'm open to all sorts of people of any race or ethnicity. For me it's a case by case basis first and foremost

You're very correct, IMO Dion. I often say that in many ways bisexuals have it worse than gay or straight people because they receive prejudice, misunderstanding, and suspicion from both sides. I wouldn't know first hand, but I bet a bisexual who came on to someone of the opposite sex at a pride parade may indeed be made to feel very uncomfortable. (which is stupid since I really think bisexuality has a valid - if not explicit - right and purpose by being there).

Errr, not to be rude - especially about such a delicate issue - but I don't think that's phrased quite the way you meant it. Right now it reads such that being gay caused him to contract AIDs and die. It probably lead to his exposure, and I can understand the correlation, but I don't think being gay specifically caused it. The specific cause, IMO, would have been the presumable unprotected sex (just theorizing he may have gotten it in other ways). Also, I'm not trying to criticise him if that was case - back in the day when he likely contracted HIV people weren't as knowledgeable about safer sex practices (because HIV/AIDs wasn't as well known). Anyway, I probably sound pedantic and rude, and I definitely know what you meant, but I just wanted to be explicit that being gay doesn't specifically cause HIV/AIDs - if for no other reason than that someone less informed about these issues might read this thread. Also, I know that likely wasn't what you meant to imply. Anyway, in my family I'm gay obviously and I strongly suspect my cousin is a lesbian, though I have no proof (and would be surprised if she were a practicing lesbian). However, my family is tiny so even one - possibly two - GLBT people in it is statistically significant. Really there's less than 10 in my immediate family on each side, so just the one confirmed case is higher than average . On a side note, because people have to respond to each question in the poll, it's actually slanted toward finding results where none might exist. For example in the second one, even though it says "if yes" you can't leave it blank. So if myself and everyone in my family were completely straight I would have still had to indicate - as the weakest form available - that someone in older generations may have been (even if I had no reason to assume this...though I guess there's probably someone gay in everyone's family tree if you go back far enough). I would suggest the addition of a "N/A" option there, and perhaps also an "Unsure" there and in a couple of other places (like maybe the 2nd to last question) Great poll though and interesting discussion! Thanks, Celia Take care all and have a great day Kevin

All those qualities sound like something I would want as well. Especially the multilingual thing. Another thing I'm a sucker for is artistic or musical guys. No, but there are all sorts of other things you'd probably like, or actively dislike, which didn't make the list. I suspect these missing (or present) features make the people who posses the ones specifically mentioned seem less attractive. For example what if the guy has all those features but absolutely refuses to use deodorant? Of may he has all those qualities but also happens to enjoy extreme S&M...I suspect those things might make him seem less charming even though they didn't warrant mentioning on your list

LOL Margret does get a bit snippy if I ignore her. She has a delicious, long-suffering, exasperated quality to her voice as she says "recalculating". Honestly I use her for everything, even trips for which I absolutely DO NOT need directions (like going from home to work or visa versa - it's only two miles away and I do it about four times a day 5 days a week). I mainly do this because she calculates my estimated time of arrival. I love this feature. It's also nice because sometimes I do zone out so it is nice to have someone say "Turn Left in 500 ft" even if I do know I need to do that, it gives me a heads up. I also enjoy bitching back at her Last year when I first got her I was in the car on the phone with a friend who was unaware of Margret's existence. Margret started getting loud and insistent about something or other and it was irritating me, so I blurted out in a very frustrated, angry voice, "Shut up, Margret! I'm trying to talk!". To my friend it just sounded like a muffled voice in the background and then me snapping very angrily and rudely. So she awkwardly offered, "I can call you back later if now isn't a good time"

I think one of the best ways to find a good one is getting a referral from a trusted friend. I'm not sure if you have a trusted friend who might have a referral, but if you do know anyone who sees one whom you also like, respect, and feel at least marginally similar to, it might be a good idea to consult with them for recommendations.

Have a wonderful and safe trip, Celia!! I must second John's request for pictures when you get back

You're right, Tarin! I find that we have a very intelligent group of people on the boards. If we didn't I'd probably have wandered off by now in all honesty. My hypothesis is that it's because this is a literary site. So at the very least most of our members can string together a decent sentence Yours are another I eagerly enjoy reading, Kit! No, no one has officially or rudely complained or remarked on my typical post length, but I've had jokes and kidding remarks made about it since I first joined! Indeed, I may be wrong, but I think Vic and Snowy were among the first to ever comment on my verbosity. I don't take these comments to heart (obviously! ) because I don't think many people are really bothered by it and because it's always been expressed in a playful, lighthearted way. However, there's obviously some truth in it, and I thought it made for a good discussion (or perhaps even a 'meta-discussion' ).

Well I've dated (and broken up with) another Asian since this thread first came around.

Good for you, Tim! Aww, sorry to hear that, Dion. Don't give up on psychologists though; there are a lot of good ones out there. I've met several of them first-hand (I've never actually been as a patient - though would be comfortable going if I needed to - but it was my major in school).

Gigs and Ram are about as far as my computer knowledge goes, and even there I only know that more is generally better. I am aware that my own computer is running out of space, I've even had to start deleting stuff. I'm not worried though. *whispers* I'm quite sure my computer doesn't have very long left. When it dies for good I'll go get another and it'll probably have more space (and certainly less junk on it ). On another note, if I disappear for a few days there's a good chance it's that. It's already refused to come on more than once, but thus far it's eventually complied.

That's my Margret! (I call her that) She's a Garmin Nuvi, but I only use her as a GPS. I knew she was brilliant with directions but I had no idea she could read as well! I wonder if she's the wrong model or something...really seems like I would know if she could read. For instance I'm well aware of her proficiency as an MP3 player.

I can't stand repetitive "rhythmic" music! It drives me right up the wall! I had to work directly with my boss the other day and he had some repetitious album playing. After a few minutes I was clamping my mouth shut to keep from snapping "My God! This is awful, please make it stop!" Poor listeners also grate on my nerves! If you're not going to listen when I talk to you (and vice versa of course) I'd rather be doing something other than having a pseudo-conversation with you! That's actually the main reason I don't do chatting or IMs much. I can't stand the divided-attention, I'll-respond-in-a-bit nature of it. I know it's just the way it is and not an affront, but I still don't like subjecting myself to it. When I communicate with someone I expect their attention, otherwise I'm perfectly content to quit communicating altogether.

Wonderful to be working with you, albeit a tad indirectly, Eric

Very Cool! I love the Beatles I'll be checking it out soon

It's wonderful that you're able to be so sensible and practical about the whole thing! I'm happy for you and proud of you! Sounds like you've got your priorities right

Awww Thanks, Steph! That is what I try to do with the questions/polls I post, because I know ridiculously long first posts may kill the thread before it even starts. Hey! You're not allowed to ignore my typing; you're my editor! Yuppers, I've seen you with quite a few long ones, Robbie. I always get excited when I see that you've got a long one for us. I think I would have noticed that anyway Awww thanks guys! BTW, I really didn't create this thread so I could make a bunch of innuendos and double entendres...that was just an unexpected bonus In any case, I feel like I've gotten some good advice take care all -Kevin (BTW, do posts with lots of quotes count? I'm kinda notorious for using up my 10 quotes, but in cases like this all my responses to each were fairly concise)

Awww, now we're just being negative assuming it was a bunch of spammers and bots! I just reviewed my blog archive, which is always a good way for me to recall approximately what I was doing at that time, and it seems that it was during one of my extended hiatuses from the site (my most recent long-term one in fact, I dropped out of sight briefly again in the later months of 07, but not as much). So regrettably it seems I wasn't one of those users either.

Errr, well I confess most of that went right over my head (so high in fact that I didn't even feel the breeze). Nevertheless, I think the gist is that you were having computer trouble but have largely resolved the matter. So yay for you, Robbie!

Happy Birthday, Steven I hope you have a fantastic day and an awesome year! -Kevin

I just wanted to wish a very warm, happy, and special birthday to Movie Guy! I hope it's a great one -Kevin

Well, in all honesty I spend virtually all of my 'internet time' here (big surprise eh?). If I'm online I'm probably here doing something. So no, I don't go to the other sites very often. I've been before of course, but not very often. I did however read all of Graeme's New Brother at Awesomedude, and now that I think of it that and JFinn's Human Condition are the only two complete, multi-chapter 'gay stories' I've ever read at another site. That doesn't count Nifty though. I've read many things at nifty (and no, not all naughty things), but I don't really 'count' that for some reason. Good question, Old Bob -Kevin

Happy Birthday

LOL, I was going to mention that I created a thread for the Kindle several months ago and link to it...but I shan't bother with that in then. I vaguely recall hearing good things about Apple's i-book e-book reader (I think that's what it's called).