C James

The "Hercules" name is the official one, used worldwide as far as I know. Sometimes, official names do not catch on. One example I can think of is the F-16. The official name is Falcon, but the pilots call them "Vipers". Another example is the M1 Abrams tank, refered to be its crews (and in orders on the command net and even in the IVIS display) as "Battlestars". See what I mean about having to dispense with all assumptions? Tactical planning is much like that, except you can (and should) take into account (and exploit) enemy assumptions. No need to withhold and cliffies (If I ever used any), because the 2008 awards are limited to stories and chapters in 2008. So, therefor, even, hypothetically, were I to post a cliffhanger now, it could not count. Great point about the celler door riddle. That';s the one I got wrong, just couldn't figure it out. There was no mention of which side of the door she was on, so I looked at it from both sides, but couldn't figure it out. I think you're right; insufficient info.

As it is election time again at GA, and Graeme is eleigable for two categories (Best non-ga story and King of Cliffhangers) I thought I'd be helpful and post a synopsis of some of the TPoF cliffhangers... Chapter 1

ACK! Ummm, well, I have to say, I find your listed examples a bit.. non-inclusive! Those example would seem to lead the voters in one specific direction. That's not fair!!! I do hereby urge to the votors to consider the fact that in one of Graeme's novels, the title character was in mortal danger of being hacked limb from limb is almost EVERY chapter!! And in that selfsame novel, a much beloved character was left at a chapter end at death's door, and then did indeed die! And the author described the act as akin to hitting the readers with a machine gun! (and I agree)... And let's not forget his current work... The Price of Friendship. That has one of the most diabolical cliffhangers ever. I can't say what for fear of spoilers, but it's in a posted chapter... And that chapter was posted in 2008, so it is very much eligible for the Cliffhanger Award! Edit to add: lest anyone interpret my post to mean that there is just one cliffhanger in TPoF, that is not true: there are many. Almost every chapter, in fact. Read it (the link is in Graeme's profile). It is an excellent story, but agoraphobics, beware! CJ Yes, bodies, bodies, everywhere.. he's surrounded poor Cody by all manner of death, destruction, and now bodies strewn hither and yon.

Graeme is quite correct! Fear not... there are logs that can determine who is editing signatures. (hint... it isn't me!) I think it's safe to say that whomsoever is editing signatures, due to it involving a cliffhanger election, has given us quite a cliffhanger (the identity of the culprit) and thus the culprit should be elected King (or, if female, Queen) of cliffhangers. Can we all agree on this? CJ

So the temperature that day was a bit higher than the weather forecast, and it was a bit windier... That pales in comparison to what you have done in DnCW~ We have a BODY on the doorstep in DnCW... And than there may very well be one in that grimy restroom. So that's TWO bodies, in just the last chapter of DnCW. And let's not forget that if Jonathon is truly dead (I believe he is, because that final scene looked very fatal to me) his calls to Cody, that Cody dondged, leave a veritable Sword of Damoclese over Cody's head. Cody has guilt issues, bigtime, so how would he feel if he finds out that Jonathon was trying to call him right before the end? Jonathon's demise would, after all, look more like a suicide that an accidental OD. So, Cody has been placed (so cruely!) in a position where those calls will appear as a last attempt to reach out, and the "suicide" a result of Cody's refusal to take the calls. Masterfully done, I admit, because it places Cody in mortal peril (He's a suicide risk as-is, abnd this could push him over the edge), a peril that could be triggered at ANY time, and what's worse, there is no way to defuse this ticking time-bomb other than to set it off. Poor Cody!!! You've left him dangling from the malevolent precipices, and can leave him there indefinitely, chapter after chapter, because this Sword of Damocles cannot be dispelled. Truely, a masterful conundrum, and for that reason I think that you have done what I thought impossible; you have toapped the Mother Of All Cliffhangers, LiS 26! I think this tour de force is most definitly worthy of an award.

But Krista... there are no cliffhangers in Changing Lanes or Let the Music Play! And let us always remember and never forget: Living in Surreality 26!! Ahhem!! "Yet" being an operative term, and need I point, out, a cliffhanger in and of itself!!! There are indeed cliffhangers in D&CW. Hrmmm, perhaps I need to do a post listing them all? Most recently, we have a BODY in a doorway, and potentially another in a restroom. Yes, that was a dastardly, soaring cliffhanger, made all the more devastating by the veritable Sword of Damocles it leaved dangling precariously over Cody's head. I think the fact that you have left us hanging so long deserves an award in and of itself, but multi-faceted cliffhangers make it all the more so.

Hrmmm... Well... Hmmm.... <taps fingers impatiently> I see the Shadowy One is STILL keeping us in suspense (hanging in suspense, yes, he does that very well, doesn't he?)... There were so many unresolved issues in the last chapter; the BODY in the doorway, perhaps another in the restroom. Bodies everywhere! Death and Destruction, all around poor Cody... What to do... What to do... Well, as in so many issues, this one could be addressed via the ballot box. Vote!

I'll confirm that Shadowgod is not dyslexic... Evil, yes, but dyslexic, no. I guess that makes him the complete opposite of me. (Yep, I'm very much dyslexic) So, Shadowgod, about that infamous scene... let's bear in mind the looming sword of Damocles that it leaves over poor Cody's head. Yes, that is a cliffhanger of enormous proportions... And of course, keeping us hanging for so long (since early November!) constitutes an enormous cliffhanger, in and of itself. And stop picking on Krista, ya big bully!

Thanks Jan!! I think Jansen has a few surprises too. Thank you Eric! Well, yes, left out the cliffs, like all the CL chapters. I'll have to look that up, as I can't remember. I learned of the bust, and the size of the cargo fleet, when it happened, and that's been a while. Thank you Conner! Yep, that pool party was fun. Poor Eric... He is worried what Brandon and Chase will do when they learn of the volcano, but, they already know and are letting him stew.

Meeko!!!! I think we can all agree that it's time for a change... So, Vote for Shadowgod or Graeme! (and yes, Graeme is both eligable, and very deserving!) Umm, not quite on the choosing. More on that lower down. Bondwriter! While I have no idea to whom you could possibly be referring, Can you honestly say that Shadowgod has not produced dizzying, vertigo-inducing, awe inspiring cliffhangers? Remember your very own words regarding LiS 26??? Shoadowyness! Now, now, We must nominate both you and Graeme! I've been occupying your cliffhanging throne long enough... Time for a Shadowgod Restoration! And, ummm, speaking of authors who leave us HANGING for new chapters, when was the last chapter of Dreams and Cliffed Wings posted? Last fall, as I recall? Tsk, Tsk, that must be the longest-running cliffhanger in literary history. I'm sure your readers will be just itching to prod you a little by giving you a certain award. Ah, well, I tried that very maneuver... last year. The WST declared that the cliffhanger category does not count against the limit. I also suggested, this year, that last year's cliffhanger recipient be ineligible this year, but they nixed that idea, too. They won't let me withdraw my name from nomination, either...

Thanks!! And yep, I can surely envision a string of profanities resulting from skin contact with acid. I've had that "pleasure". In my case, sulfuric acid, thanks to a car battery I was removing having unseen damage. Didn't help that it hit a spot where I already had an open cut. My language was indeed-- colorful. Hrmmm! But, Your Frogishness, does this mean that you are trying to get me to jump off a cliff?? Hrmmm, again, we have you talking about your favorite subject... cliffs. I think that you and the cliff-chirping-frog might be more closely related than you admit.

Oh, how true that is. I can't count the times when one of my chapters has come back to me and I've seen glaring goofs pointed out, yet could I see them when I proofed it? Nope... . For me, the hardest things are look-alike words. One of my most common goofs is substituting out for our. Another is waive for wave, or brought for bought. I do know the difference, but I don't "see" them when I proofread. I see what I think is supposed to be there. I suspect that I have greater trouble with this due to being dyslexic. Another cause of goofs in my chapters is spelling-check. I freely admit to being an atrocious speller, so I use Word's grammar and spelling checker before anyone on my team sees a draft. I also have it set to highlight incorrect words as I type. The problem is, I apparently select the wrong "suggestion" from the list, and then I see what I thought should be there, not what I selected. Oops... BTW, today, while in a waiting room, I happened to glance at New Yorker magazine. Seems they don't know whether or not to capitalize cardinal compass directions; I saw them us them both ways, repeatedly.

Well, you know I never use cliffhangers. Why would now be any different? BTW, regarding the lemons... I can state categorically that you are either correct, or not. I just thought y'all might like to have a laugh at the original scene where Helen met the Carlise's mom at the jet.. This was changed for the posted chapter, but below is the original. Walking down the Learjet

Bluesox, I share your pain. Thanks for posting this! I'm dyslexic, so I often miss such things when reading (I had a hard time spotting that "loose" above), but I see enough to make my eyes roll on many an occasion. However, even I often spot glaring errors in professionally-edited books, and they are made by writers who one would assume know better. The way I look at it is like this: typos happen. We all (especially our long-suffering editors and betas) wish they didn't, but they do. However, what gets my goat (Sorry, couldn't resist!) is when highly paid writers make repeated "newbie" mistakes. The examples you cite are similar to ones I've seen in best-seller published books. One (of many) that usually jumps out at me is "mute point" instead of "moot point". Another is.. Well, you get the idea; they are many and varied. I do indeed see "its" and "it's" mixed up, over and over and over again, by highly paid pro writers. I have to wonder, when such a volume of goofs gets through, just how bad their unedited work is. With grammar, there is for many a learning curve. One glaring example of writer ignorance that I like to cite is my own. During FTL, I was mangling the grammar regarding dialog. I was unaware that you only use a comma after a speech tag prior to dialog. For example, Wrong way: The man nodded, "Yes, I agree," he said. Right way: The man nodded. "Yes, I agree," he said. You only use the comma after a speech tag, such as...... The man coughed once before saying, "Yes, I agree." I used speech tags incorrectly in some cases in FTL due to not knowing this rule. A good friend and mentor alerted me to the problem (Thanks!), and I've since tired to scan the FTL chapters and correct those goofs, but I know I've missed plenty. I'm mentioning this for two reasons; the obvious one is as an example, but the second reason is to illustrate the point that sometimes, the writer just doesn't know any better unless he or she is told. This is a delicate matter because for some reason some authors do not appreciate even private constructive criticism. My own opinion is that it is in the author's self-interest to be not only open to but thankful for such help. That's why I encourage it in my case, public or private, either way is fine and is deeply appreciated. I know that I make errors, and I know that I still have much to learn regarding grammar. No bonus points for me... I don't get the topic description reference.

I've disbarred myself from having any decision-making role in the awards due to a possible conflict of interest (I'm a writer), so what I'm about to say is only my understanding of the rules, though I'm fairly certain this is what was decided: An author is considered "new" for this if they posted their first story or chapter in 2008. CJ

Hi Meeko! Hrmmm, now even the raccoons are implying that I give not-so-nice surprises? Meeko... you know I never use cliffies, so where could a cliffie come from?? E Tu Drewbie? Aww, but since when has anything ever ended badly in one of my chapters? Let's see... In LTMP there was one airplane ride where things got a little bumpy, but, those things happen... And in another, Toowoomba Australia had an unseasonably warm day, but that happens too...

Happy Birthday Krista!!!

I think it's time for me to announce the title of the next chapter.. Surprises. Everybody likes surprises, right? BTW, I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. I know I didn't reply much this time, but in most cases I couldn't without giving spoilers. There were some great speculations and comments though, thank you!!! Thanks!!! CJ

Thanks Graeme!!! So far, the preponderances of evidence seems to suggest that Chlorine gas would result, especially with a little sulfuric acid added to the ammonia-chlorine mix. The trouble I'm having is due to other web-based sources, such as this in the New England Journal of Medicine claim a bleach plus ammonia reaction produces chloramine. Okay, more digging turned up this, from a chemical decontamination company. it appears that bleach plus amonia do produce chloramines, in three forms: These are (1) monochloramine, NH2Cl, (2) dichloramine, NHCl2, and (3) trichloramine, or nitrogen trichloride, NCl3. The nitrogen trichloride is very unstable, and breaks down to release chlorine gas. So, I think the initial reaction produces the chloramines, but then chlorine gas is rapidly produced by the subseqent breakdown of the nitrogen trichloride. The nitrogen trichloride ratio can be increased by adding more bleach than ammonia. OK, thank you! This sounds right to me. If anyone has any further info, PLEASE weigh in!! Thanks!! CJ

I''ve been trying to research the chemical reactions involved from chlorine, Ammonia, and sulfur. What I need to get, per the plot, is Chlorine gas. I might need to put the story on hiatus until I can figure this out, because it's a critical aspect. The reaction I've found at a BBC science site is for Chlorine bleach and Ammonia. 2(parts)NaOCl + 2NH3 --> 2NaONH3 + Cl2. The CL2 is chlorine gas. However, I've bungled the plot: the General mentions Chlorine, Sulfur, and Ammonia. The problem is, Chlorine, by itself, is most commonly Cl2.. Chlorine gas. I need a liquid or solid form. I've also seen statements (here and from searches) that bleach plus ammonia make Chloramine gas, not Chlorine gas. I need Chlorine gas. From looking at the formula, it appears that you need a little alkalinity to free up the nitrogen needed to make Chloramine rather than chlorine gas. Ammonia and Bleach are both alkaline, so I can sure see the reasoning for saying it would produce mainly Chloramine. In an acid environment, Ammonia and Bleach apparently do produce Chlorine gas. So, one option is that the sulfur be sulfuric acid. I think... Anyway, here's a link to the BBC site I was basing my chemistry on. The problem is that I am not good at chemistry. I'm kind of lost here. Another source says this; here are several ways household ammonia and bleach can react. All of them are dangerous. So, it appears from that the bleach plus ammonia form both Chlorine gas AND Chloramine! Okay, at the moment, I'm thinking that one of the chemicals the General needs is chlorine in the form of Sodium hypochlorite (NaClO). Sodium Hypochlorate is what's in bleach, in about a 5% solution (the rest is water). The other two chemicals I'm thinking he'll be mixing are Sulfuric Acid (from batteries) and Ammonia. That, if I'm reading all this right, should give him his Chlorine gas plus a few other nasties (smaller amounts of Hydrazine and Nitrogen Trichloride). (I don't mind if there is some Chloramine, but there must be some Chlorine gas, and preferably a trace of hydrazine too). Did I get that right? Or have I (quite likely) bungled the chemistry? Thanks!!! CJ

I'll reply to the other posts soon, but needed to reply to this one as I've hit a massive plot snag (I'll be posting a separate thread, too). The reaction the produces the nitrogen trichloride does not produce pure nitrogen trichloride, just that and other things, so it's not explosive as-is, but, it is highly reactive. So, no kaboom without other steps, you're right. Okay, I'll go start the other thread, because I might have a huge problem with the chemistry.

My sincere thanks on the cliffhanger-free declaration! However, I'm afraid that I'm confused chemical matters here... When you mix bleach (chlorine) with ammonia, here's what happens. 2(parts)NaOCl + 2NH3 --> 2NaONH3 + Cl2. The CL2 is chlorine gas. Isn't it? Don't you need a little alkalinity to free up the nitrogen needed to make Chloramine rather than chlorine gas? I do know that mixing chlorine and ammonia in a negative PH environment would produce chlorine gas for sure. The question is, what would the PH of Chlorine, Sulfur, and Ammonia be? Maybe I need to add another chemical to the mix? Chlorine gas, BTW, was used as a war gas in WWI. The Chlorine-ammonia reaction is interesting... if you add more bleach than ammonia, you also get nitrogen trichloride... kaboom! Alter the mix the other way, and you get some Hydrazine... nasty stuff. I'm off to do some research! Any and all input would be very much appreciated.

Just a quick note to say THANK YOU for the comments. I can say, without fear of the Echidna (due to this being a scientific fact) that the earthquake in California has nothing to do with the volcanic activity in La Palma. Ahh, yes, the lemons. Well, chlorine, sulfur, and ammonia produce chlorine gas, which is lethal in large doses. It also will set of chemical warfare detectors. But.. the lemons... I hope the Echidna doesn't see this, but... one possibility is, The General plans on opening a lemonade stand, and while all the Iranians are attending the grand opening, he sneaks in to do the mission... BTW, just for some fun, to see what the general is up against, take a look at Operation Eagle Claw. That was the abortive mission to rescue the US hostages in 1980. (the disaster at Desert One). The linked page describes the plans for the rest of the mission as well. Very interesting reading. It also helps show what General Bradson is up against. And part of his answer: lemons.

Some GREAT posts above, thanks!! I'll reply more later (3:30 AM here, gotta sleep!) but I just wanted to mention that chapter 20, explanations, should be posted (assuming my internet doesn't go down yet again, and I get the formatting done) around 12 noon, my time, Tuesday. CJ

Okay, update on the video been as no one got it. I can truthfully say that the Shadowgode mad me do it!! Remember the dream scene in LiS? About an Asteroid impact on earth? Happy New Year!! CJ