Physical Appearance is Completely Irrelevant

[JSmith]

Just nod your head and smile, eh?

[AFriendlyFace]

I think there's too much emphasis on looks in the Gay community, at least in my opinion. You would think we would have learned a thing or two about personality and character by now. I'm more of the liberal in viewing of people; I like all people, regardless of their national origin, culture, race, age, gender, fat, skinny, tall, short, handicap, young or older. What may turn me off is the way they treat other people or disrespect of others. I'm fortunate to have people I call friends in many places across this globe. Our family is made up of many cultures and races. I abhor discrimination of any kind.

Hmm, just a thought/comment, and probably one I have no business making, but if I've got the facts straight you've been in three serious relationships...all with very beautiful people.

 

Now I don't doubt your assertion at all, but if physical looks were completely irrelevant to you chances are you wouldn't have just randomly ended up dating in the top 10% of physical beauty all three times.

 

I'm not yet perfect, but I still haven't learned to walk on water. I know that day will never come, but I keep trying.

Well, relentless self-improvement has always been top of my list.

 

I only dated one other guy before meeting Morgan. Again my friends thought he was such a hottie because of his looks, they obviously didn't see the same person I did. He was the shallowest most self-absorbed person I ever met. Now Morgan I happen to find to be the most sincere caring person I've ever met, and I think he's beautiful inside and out.

AWWWW

 

And Mark, why did yu say GAY people give more interest to looks. I know plenty of straights who judge others by their physical appearance.

No, I think he's right. Not "gay people", gay MEN. I think lesbians are the least superficial group. To me it's lesbians, straight women, straight men, gay men, in ascending order of average shallowness.

 

It seems that we're all in agreement about the fact that men are more superficial (on average) than women (at least in terms of the physical appearance of whom they date). I think the average gay guy is more superficial than the average straight guy. I think this is because people sort of "rub off" on each other. When straight guys date, settle down, etc. they're around their woman (who's probably less superficial), and probably also other less superficial couples, etc. So over time I think they get socialized to accept that their partner doesn't have to be perfect.

 

Gay guys on the other hand or more in a continuing cycle of meeting other superficial guys, competing with them in terms of looks (and thus raising their own criteria in the process), and are generally socialized over time to become more superficial.

 

There's also a self-fulfilling prophesy going on here. Other people think they're naturally going to be superficial, THEY think they're naturally going to be superficial, so guess what, over time they become more superficial.

 

There's also the issue of insecurity. Ugly/average straight guys can date beautiful women. They just can, it happens. Gay guys have this idea in their head that they can't date really gorgeous guys unless they are really gorgeous themselves. And what happens if gay Joe-average dates super-model Dirk? Joe-average screws things up with his paranoia, jealousy, and insecurity and super-model Dirk does leave him, often for super-model Troy (who knows he's gorgeous and isn't as clingy, paranoid, and insecure about that area as Joe-average).

 

Anyway, I think a lot of factors go into making gay guys more superficial than straight guys. But don't get me wrong, overall I'd rather be with someone who had the typical gay guy package of characteristics than the typical straight guy package of characteristics. Sure the superficial part sucks, but I also believe that on average gay guys are more sensitive, wittier, supportive, caring, affectionate, and while I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, more intelligent, better cultured, and (here's the superficial part) more attractive!

 

Now I'm just saying this is generally and overall for the average population at large. There are undoubtedly tons of individuals and relationships which are completely opposite of everything I've just described. I'm also by no means dissing any of you, myself, or the gay community (I'm crazy about all three of classes of people!! ). I also believe strongly in people having control over their own behaviour and destinies. If I don't want to be superficial, I think that's something I can do if I put my mind to it. Same for all of you.

 

Oh yeah, and by the way. Personally I think the average American woman is much more attractive than the average American man. I think the average woman doesn't let herself go quite as much as the average man, and actually most of the features I find most attractive in people are more likely to occur naturally in women than in men (like not being hairy, and having smaller frames - both height and weight, and there are others). Anyway if I absolutely had to I'd probably rather sexually be with a typical American woman than a typical American man. However, while I suppose I'm slightly bisexual, I'm not particularly attracted to women and I don't have very much sexual desire for them (they're just less gross than the average guy ). SO automatically I pretty much realize and accept that the only guys I'm going to be at all interested in having a physical relationship with ARE going to be (what I perceive) as more attractive than the average guy. Fortunately for me gay guys tend to take much better care of themselves than straight guys

 

Indeed, that's why I've always found it funny that there's this illusion that gay guys want to get with straight guys. For one thing I think any semi-intelligent gay guy wouldn't want to open that can of worms in the first place, and for another thing, personally, I think members of our own community (typically) have more to offer physically and emotionally than the average straight guy. Don't get me wrong, some straight guys are incredibly hot, and I've known quite a few really hot ones that I also thought were really awesome people, sweet, caring, intelligent, fun to be around etc. Overall though I'd rather stick with other gay guys.

 

As for friendships, I really don't think I have any physical, racial, age, sex, orientation, religious, or cultural biases. I'm completely open-minded about who I develop close friendships with, and indeed I've hit almost every demographic that's even slightly prevalent here in my area. I certainly DON'T consider myself superficial in general. Indeed I almost unconditionally accept everyone as long as they're decent people. It just doesn't mean I necessarily want to spend the rest of my life sharing intimate things with them.

 

I also agree that people can form romantic relationships in spite of physical disinterest. I could even imagine myself doing it. Indeed I've often considered pursuing relationships with people who pretty much measured up in the other ways, but weren't physically my "type". Then I remind myself that it's okay to let physical characteristics be a requirement in the same way that I've often disqualified really hot guys who were jerks, stupid, lacked a sense of humour, or had some other major intellectual/personality flaw. And so I here I sit, waiting for Mr. Perfect to walk in.

 

I do realize that my standards are WAY too high, that it's unlikely I'll find someone who meets them, that I'm way too picky, and that I should definitely just learn to compromise...but I also realize that I've got some issues in this area that I need to work out, and I will work them out, and I will reach a happy medium and live happily ever after...eventually

 

Just my candid, but probably slightly insulting and superficial thoughts,

take care all and have an awesome day!

Kevin

Edited June 7, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[Graeme]

If the publisher of the photographs of me to which you have does not have and/or is unable to produce a signed model release from me specifically authorizing the use of the photos in the manner to which I object, the publisher can be restrained from distributing them and also may be liable for damages. About the only exception to that would be if I were engaged in what normally would be considered a common, voluntary, un-private activity in a public place, wherein I would have no expectation of particular privacy.

 

Caprice?

For the record, that may be the law in the USA, but that's not necessarily the case if the photograph was published in another country. If the server in question was hosted in Australia, for example, the law is not clear as to whether USA or Australian law would apply....

 

I'm probably wrong, but if a copy of a photograph is given voluntarily to another person by the original owner, then there are certain fair-use rules that apply to that copy....

 

Not that I'm trying to complicate the matter.

[Graeme]

It seems that we're all in agreement about the fact that men are more superficial (on average) than women (at least in terms of the physical appearance of whom they date). I think the average gay guy is more superficial than the average straight guy. I think this is because people sort of "rub off" on each other. When straight guys date, settle down, etc. they're around their woman (who's probably less superficial), and probably also other less superficial couples, etc. So over time I think they get socialized to accept that their partner doesn't have to be perfect.

 

Gay guys on the other hand or more in a continuing cycle of meeting other superficial guys, competing with them in terms of looks (and thus raising their own criteria in the process), and are generally socialized over time to become more superficial.

An interesting theory. On this basis, I would be less superficial than other gay guys, because I don't generally associate with (known) gay guys.

 

However, it may be a sampling error -- where gay guys with similar attitudes group together. I have heard stories about gay guys who avoid the gay district in Sydney because they find the whole scene very shallow. They prefer to be "regular guys" living out in the suburbs, because that's where they are most happy.

 

I can't confirm these stories because I no longer know any gay guys in Sydney whom I can ask.

[AFriendlyFace]

An interesting theory. On this basis, I would be less superficial than other gay guys, because I don't generally associate with (known) gay guys.

I would think so! In fact I even had you in mind when I was positing this theory

However, it may be a sampling error -- where gay guys with similar attitudes group together. I have heard stories about gay guys who avoid the gay district in Sydney because they find the whole scene very shallow. They prefer to be "regular guys" living out in the suburbs, because that's where they are most happy.

 

I can't confirm these stories because I no longer know any gay guys in Sydney whom I can ask.

This makes sense too! I suppose I might also be basing these observations on my own interaction with gay guys, and while I've definitely met a full range who would rate all over the board in terms of superficialness, etc. I probably AM exposed more heavily to a group that could well be skewed toward the more superficial end of the spectrum (for example young guys - I think overall younger people are more superficial than older people. It's also true that while I probably have more gay male friends who don't like to go out and go clubbing, when I enter that world I see and experience the types of guys who do, and they're probably more likely to be superficial as well).

 

I also think that certain sub-groups of gay males are more likely to be (physically) superficial than others. "Bears" for example are often cited as an example of a sub-group with healthier phsyical attitudes, and a more relaxed emphasis on looks. I'd agree up to a point, although I'd also speculate that they simply have a different physical bias. It's really the same thing as my own personal disinterest in "very well-built, highly muscular" guys. Basically I'm just not usually particularly physically attraacted to really "butch" looking guys even if that butchness is generally percieved as something positive by society (I.E. large muscles). I personally prefer a smaller, leaner build, with an emphasis on toned not large muscles.

[NaperVic]

I think that physical attraction is essential for a relationship. It's certainly the least important factor, but if I the idea of sleeping with my partner revolts me, then there is no room for a relationship with that person. Possibly a bit shallow, but it's how I feel.

 

I had a one night stand last night with a guy I neither respect nor like.

 

 

[kojaky]

I am a Beast. I know it, everybody knows it. Couldn't hide it if I wanted to. The blue fur is a dead giveaway.

 

I am sooo large that I can't fit in some cars. I can easily bench 300+ and have maxed out around 500 pounds. My thighs are 32" waste 34, arms 30, chest 55.

 

 

[/font][/size]

 

How handsome already

[eliotmoore]

Gee AFriendlyFace could I get super-model Dirk and super-model Troy's phone numbers? Are they being exclusive do you know?

[Luc]

I have a headache. Just saying that up front.

 

Looks are very important. If you look good, it is easier for you to make friends, get a job, get ahead. Can you look me (or anyone) in the eye and say that is not true? Maybe part of that is because if you think you look good, you have confidence in yourself

[JSmith]

I have a headache. Just saying that up front.

 

Looks are very important. If you look good, it is easier for you to make friends, get a job, get ahead. Can you look me (or anyone) in the eye and say that is not true? Maybe part of that is because if you think you look good, you have confidence in yourself—which would also make those things easier to get. Despite what we want to believe, people value appearance. Probably is a biological reason for it. Better looking people probably have better genes which will improve the species’ ability to survive.

 

There are people who say looks aren’t important. Often they are people who have those “good looks.” Sort of like people who say money isn’t everything—who have more than enough money in their bank accounts. Then there are the people who don’t have those “looks” that aren’t important. Maybe they say looks aren’t important because they don’t want them to be. Like those people who have no money and are quick to proclaim that money can’t buy happiness.

 

Then there ARE the people who truly don’t think looks are important, who think that way not because they have conditioned themselves to believe that out of a sense of self-preservation, but because they are just genuinely NOT superficial.

 

Looks are handy to have. They get more people to look your way—which increases the odds that someone may start talking to you and discover WHO you are under the skin. That is really what is important—who you are under the skin. I sometimes think that people who do not have “good looks” as classically or currently defined are more fortunate in some ways. There will never be a question in their mind if the person they are with is with them for any other reason than for who they are inside.

 

I will admit that a “good-looking” person will catch my eye. Not likely I will strike up a conversation with that person though. I am much more likely to talk to someone not so blessed. Maybe I am just lazy and like to get right to the person underneath. Or maybe that is because that is what is important to me. Then again, maybe I am just that insecure that I am afraid I won’t “measure up” to the person they see in the mirror. I don’t know.

 

Maybe we would be better off if we were all blind little moles. But then we’d find some other way of categorizing ourselves other than our “appearance.”

 

I agree completely with you on what you said. Except the bold part. I'd much rather be a blind rabbit than a mole. A lot more fun that way

 

While I'd like to agree with half the people that said looks aren't important at all, I disagree. When you're walking down the street, tell me you don't notice a good looking guy and think, "Damn... what I'd give to get that and bed and _____" (fill in the blank yourself). Now this may seem really shallow of me, but I do agree with everyone that said personality is a bigger feature. No matter how attractive you are, if you're an ass, I'll completely overlook you. Either that or be an ass right back, which is most likely what would happen before I ignore you.

 

For me, I've been with guys that range from pretty good looking to maybe not so good looking. Up until now none of those have lasted for one reason or another, but my current boyfriend is in the above-average range. I'm much more interested in being with him for who he is than being with him because he looks good. Contrary to popular belief, I am not a slut! In all honesty, I'd much rather curl up and watch a movie than have sex every day. So while I do appreciate looks and think it does play a big part in a relationship, it really isn't the number one thing I look for.

 

Anyway it's been a long day so I'm going to end it here!

 

Joe

[jfalkon]

It seems like everyone agrees that judging people by their looks is not too smart. I agree too but when you are in a croud of people the people you notice are the ones who look unusual or unusualy good. Once a person has your attention you are more likely to talk to him. If you never noticed a person in the first place there is no way you can have a relationship with them.

 

I think there is nothing wrong with noticing a person's apearance or complementing him on it. If he turns out to be you good friend or you start dating later there is nothing wrong with that either. If you chooses to hang around a bunch of nasty people because of their good looks, then there is a problem.

 

I understand not wanting to sleep with someone revolting but I wonder what it is that makes a person revolting. The things that come to my mind are mostly odors and other signs of poor hygene. Sometimes sighns of poor health/fitness can be unatractive as well. If you are repelled by the smell of old sweat and athleet's foot that's probably a good thing. Who wants to catch something? Its better to avoid people who don't take even reasonably good care of themselves.

[Ieshwar]

Hi there,

 

First a big THANKS to Kevin(AFriendlyface)! Coz, he has called us (gay guys) "more sensitive, wittier, supportive, caring, affectionate...more intelligent, better cultured"! (I'm conveniently ignoring the suerficial part; I wouldn't like to ruin my delicate fingernails whle tapping on the keys. )

 

Kevin, it's not that we fall for straight guys. It's just that sometimes our gaydar is so out of tune that we fall for the wrong one and start having feelings for them. Or sometimes, we are surrounded by straights only!

 

Ieshwar

[Matthew]

I had a good (or terrible, depending on one's perspective) example of how looks can be very relevant, but felt it would fit better in Mark's other thread here.

 

Aside from that, I really agree with Kevin's view that men are much more superfician in this area in general than women and that it's more pronounced in gay men.

 

Contrary to popular belief, I am not a slut!

 

I didn't know there was a popular belief.

[myself_i_must_remake]

i feel like if looks didn't matter, then this website wouldn't exist.

 

allow me to explain.

 

looks are our sexual motivator.

i mean i know that in society today we make sure that a lot of things precede sex. people have certain values that they need fulfilled before they can get into bed with someone.

 

but the point is, looks are what make the chemicals flow... and certain parts of the body respond.

 

so. looks are kind of equated to sex.

 

and gasp, this entire website is born because of our sexualities.

 

if looks didn't matter, i'd almost go as far as to say that there would be no sexualities, and that people would just date people.

[Guest raz]

I think it's important to find your partner attractive. You have to think they are good looking. You personally have to have that attraction towards them. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to be conventionally hot. Personality definitely affects appearance. There have been more hot guys than I can count where I initially thought they were gorgeous, but after hearing them speak, barely considered them average. This is not to say that they were offensive, or not very intelligent; they were just not what I like in guys.

[Adrian Michaels]

*sigh* I was totally going to go to bed, (just got back from the night shift, woo hoo!) But I saw this thread, and I have to post in it.

 

I think that while physical appearance shouldn't be the main focus in any type of relationship, there has to be something about the way a person looks that sparks contact. It's like the bait, and personality is the hook.

 

For example, I'm kinda automatically attracted to anyone wearing a sweater with a collared shirt under it. If its argyle, all the better. (I've got this thing with prep-school clothes... That or law professors... ) Honestly, any sweater... And if you've got either red or blonde hair?? AHHH. I've just died.

 

All of that has NOTHING to do with what a person is like. But it's what makes me initiate a conversation with a person.

 

For example, I met one of my best friend in line while waiting to get tickets to a movie in college. He was wearing a Ravenclaw shirt, with the dress shirt collar under it... (*sigh* another attraction... Classy looking Harry Potter shirts. And yes, they do make them...) He looked really nice, besides from being just all around good looking. So I started talking to him, and ending spending 3 hours with him that night.

 

Of course, I also found out that he's dating one of my other friends. But that was cool, because the three of us do things all the time.

 

As for gay guys being the shallowest of the sexual-orientations, I think we kind of have to be. Being a minority, we tend to seek out those like us. How do we do that?? Well chances are, if you see a guy who's dressed to kill, AND his belt, bag, and shoes match, he's probably playing for our team.

 

On the other hand, some of my most favorite people to be around are totally opposite, and wouldn't know fashion if it slapped them in the face. It's the personality that brings people in.

[Jack Scribe]

For me, I've been with guys that range from pretty good looking to maybe not so good looking...I'm much more interested in being with him for who he is than being with him because he looks good. In all honesty, I'd much rather curl up and watch a movie than have sex every day. So while I do appreciate looks and think it does play a big part in a relationship, it really isn't the number one thing I look for.

 

My God, this thread is more fun than "Young and Restless" and "Days of Our Lives" with a little Corbin Fisher thrown in.

 

I'm in Joe's camp...kind of. I like "looking good" as part of the package. Not runway model material, but someone who is trim and cleans up well. How about a movie and sex every day?

 

Jack

[NaperVic]

As much as people say that looks aren't everything, they are important. Some people just don't like some things. I personally just have a weird issue with dating outside of my race. I've never been racist or anything like that, but for some strange reason I like the little white boys. ~shrugs~ I also am not overly fond of guys with very long hair. Guys who are really tan don't really grab my attention, either. The point is that everyone goes for certain things, no matter what they say.

 

While I'd like to agree with half the people that said looks aren't important at all, I disagree.

 

I agree that looks are an important part of the package and the good news is that EVERYONE has different tastes or definitions of attractive. Because of that, I'm a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone.

 

Just like Razor, I have my type..which is pretty darn specific. I'm only attracted to white guys who are 5'8"-5'11", extremely thin, brown hair that's short and straight, and eyes that scream 'I'm an innocent little puppy'. *cough* dairy queen *cough* .

 

But as everyone else has said, looks only gets you so far. Now granted it may get you to 3rd base *cough* menzo *cough*, but looks alone does not a relationship make.

 

Take Care

Edited June 7, 2007 by NaperVic

[Drewbie]

We know you aren't a slut,

 

Don't have the qualification's.

[JSmith]

That's not the recent gossip by the GA water cooler

 

Was the guys supposed to be bold? Because Im pretty sure a few people on here could testify for me there

[Bondwriter]

Was the guys supposed to be bold? Because Im pretty sure a few people on here could testify for me there

I'll testify to anything provided you transfer the proper amount of money to this nice financial establishment in the West Indies I told you about already.

[JSmith]

SHH! Thats supposed to be a SECRET transaction! Great... now everyones going to want payment.

[Ieshwar]

Are we distributing money here? Where's mine? :pickaxe:

 

Ieshwar

[GaryKelly]

Okay, ladies and genitals, here's the nitty gritty gleaned from two experiences today. 1. I took my pooch to the vet because her nails and knots were getting way past tolerable. What I got back was a shaved pooch, almost unrecognizable...and still woozy from the anaesthetic to boot. Did I still love her? Yep, even more so, the little darling. 2. I have grapefruit growing in the yard. Ew! I either toss them into the bin or they rot on the ground. THIS TIME I decided to do a google for grapefruit jam/jelly. As it was cooking, I looked at it and thought 'no way this puke is going into jars'. But, guess what? It turned out looking yummy...and now three neighbors are recipients of the bottled version. Yes, Ls and Gs, books and covers...that's the way it is.

[Menzoberranzen]

 

 

I didn't say he was ugly