[Grammar] 10 ITEMS OR LESS

[MikeL]

I feel woefully left out of this debate, seeing as how, thanks to the Quebec language laws, virtually all public signs around here are in French.

 

Occasionally, the really anal-retentive will go into a shop or a restaurant and complain about inadequate use of French / French spelling or grammatical errors / overuse of English on signs / overuse of some language other than English or French on signs / anglicismes in French / insufficient use of French in the workplace / all of the above.

 

The difference is, when people like that complain in the US, they just rant, or take their business elsewhere if they're really upset. Here, they can file a complaint with the OLF and result in the establishment getting warned or fined... and often in a political firestorm.

Don't have that problem here. You can use any language you wish. But, if you don't use English, you will be left out of a lot of opportunities. The bilingual Hispanic always becomes the supervisor.

[kitten]

I feel woefully left out of this debate, seeing as how, thanks to the Quebec language laws, virtually all public signs around here are in French.

 

Occasionally, the really anal-retentive will go into a shop or a restaurant and complain about inadequate use of French / French spelling or grammatical errors / overuse of English on signs / overuse of some language other than English or French on signs / anglicismes in French / insufficient use of French in the workplace / all of the above.

 

The difference is, when people like that complain in the US, they just rant, or take their business elsewhere if they're really upset. Here, they can file a complaint with the OLF and result in the establishment getting warned or fined... and often in a political firestorm.

 

Life would have been much simpler if, when we took Canada off the French, we had banned the use of the French language in our newly-acquired territories.

[MikeL]

Life would have been much simpler if, when we took Canada off the French, we had banned the use of the French language in our newly-acquired territories.

Seems the British left it to the Qu

[Bondwriter]

Even the lexicographers give up when a grammar error becomes common. The word "snuck" is frequently used in the US in place of "sneaked". Example: "He snuck into the room." "Snuck" is beginning to appear in American dictionaries now, making it "acceptable" even though most dictionaries note its irregularity.

 

I guess it's true that English is a living language, always growing with new words even if those words are grammatically incorrect. English lives no matter how many shots we take at it.

Overgeneralizing a conjugation, as if the verb was irregular cannot really compare with the confusion between possessive and plural. The apostrophe has a syntactical value. Plus it's a big US habit of using irregular forms in the past tense. But it does not create any confusion as in the example quoted above (which actually brings a comic effect...)

[MikeL]

Overgeneralizing a conjugation, as if the verb was irregular cannot really compare with the confusion between possessive and plural. The apostrophe has a syntactical value. Plus it's a big US habit of using irregular forms in the past tense. But it does not create any confusion as in the example quoted above (which actually brings a comic effect...)

English teachers are, by and large, not amused.

[Bondwriter]

English teachers are, by and large, not amused.

Are you kidding? This sign cracked me up!

[Cynical Romantic]

Well of course English is a living, breathing language. We're not still walking around talking in Shakespearian English, or in medieval English, are we? Doth thou think?

[MikeL]

Well of course English is a living, breathing language. We're not still walking around talking in Shakespearian English, or in medieval English, are we? Doth thou think?

Me thinks thou art correct.

[TalonRider]

A companion article to the original post.

 

IS THAT 10, OR TEN? Britain's Tesco supermarket chain is changing the "Ten items or less" signs at express checkout lanes because that's bad grammar. For years, Tesco has resisted suggestions to change it to "Ten items or fewer", but has now accepted a suggestion from the Plain English Campaign to use the wording, "Up to ten items". That wording, a Campaign spokesman said, "avoids any debate." (London Telegraph) ...Is that up to and including 10 items?

[David McLeod]

I avoid contractions in narration. That makes it easier. However, it's too weird not to use contractions in dialogue.

 

Your point, well taken, could use some expansion. Narration should be in higher diction than dialogue. If the narrator speaks, he/she might use contractions, slang, and improper language. When the narrator narrates, he/she should use proper language. (I almost said "proper English," and the realized that English that is proper in the UK/Commonwealth isn't necessarily proper in the USA."

[David McLeod]

How untowards of you.

 

I was puzzled the first time I read "Richard III" and learned that "toward" and "froward" had unusual and interesting meanings. Frankly, I pine for more precise use of language.

[David McLeod]

BTW, September 24 is National Punctuation Day in the United States. Let's party!

 

 

Rather, let us weep for the demise of language and logic. (Sorry, I've just read one of the local, weekly, newspapers, and an overwhelmed at the lack of proper grammar and the complete absence of logical thought).

[MikeL]

A companion article to the original post.

 

IS THAT 10, OR TEN? Britain's Tesco supermarket chain is changing the "Ten items or less" signs at express checkout lanes because that's bad grammar. For years, Tesco has resisted suggestions to change it to "Ten items or fewer", but has now accepted a suggestion from the Plain English Campaign to use the wording, "Up to ten items". That wording, a Campaign spokesman said, "avoids any debate." (London Telegraph) ...Is that up to and including 10 items?

It is strange that some think it more important to avoid debate than misunderstanding.

Your point, well taken, could use some expansion. Narration should be in higher diction than dialogue. If the narrator speaks, he/she might use contractions, slang, and improper language. When the narrator narrates, he/she should use proper language. (I almost said "proper English," and the realized that English that is proper in the UK/Commonwealth isn't necessarily proper in the USA."

I was puzzled the first time I read "Richard III" and learned that "toward" and "froward" had unusual and interesting meanings. Frankly, I pine for more precise use of language.

Rather, let us weep for the demise of language and logic. (Sorry, I've just read one of the local, weekly, newspapers, and an overwhelmed at the lack of proper grammar and the complete absence of logical thought).

Interesting observations, David. I suppose proper English...or any language...is whatever the authorities (lexicographers) say it is. Unfortunately, an increasing number of them lack the fortitude to stand on principle and would rather seek popular approbation.