[Grammar] 10 ITEMS OR LESS

[Red_A]

The largest British supermarket chain has tills (Cash Registers) which are designated for small number of purchases' customers. It is now changing from 10 items or less till labels,(should be 10 items or fewer), to "up to 10 items", due to the pressure from plain English groups. This has prompted a list of the most annoying uses of english. BBC annoying uses of english.

What are your comments, or do you have any pet hates.

 

Red

Edited September 3, 2008 by Red_A

[TalonRider]

Something that I run into with some of my authors is the use of the commonly confused words like its and it's. I tell them to read the sentence using it is and if it works, then they know they are using the correct word.

[Dion]

Apostrophe 's' for plural = my biggest peeve. Followed by 'between three or four people'. You can only go 'between' two. Any more than that is 'among'.

 

ETA: 'breath' and 'breathe', 'losing' and 'loosing'... and the well-worn phrase 'New and Improved!'

Edited September 3, 2008 by Dion

[Daisy]

I don't think I was taught english well in school. Alot of these things I am learning now, or learnt through teachers who were suprised I didn't already know them. so yes, my grammer and punctuation are awful, and it's down to me to learn how to use it correctly. So I feel that the millions who don't know the correct grammer rules, it's not necessarily their fault or something they should be blamed for. schools need to be improved.

 

celia

Edited September 3, 2008 by Smarties

[sat8997]

Towards, forwards, backwards...that damn s drives me nuts. I've edited up to chapter 30 for one person and you'd think by now he would have noticed I keep deleting that letter and stop using it!!!

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know you British types think it's correct. He's not British.

[TalonRider]

Of the two authors that I was referring to, one of them doesn't make the mistake quite as often.

[Tiger]

Of the two authors that I was referring to, one of them doesn't make the mistake quite as often.

I avoid contractions in narration. That makes it easier. However, it's too weird not to use contractions in dialogue.

[rec]

Towards, forwards, backwards...that damn s drives me nuts. I've edited up to chapter 30 for one person and you'd think by now he would have noticed I keep deleting that letter and stop using it!!!

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know you British types think it's correct. He's not British.

 

How untowards of you.

[Tiger]

Towards, forwards, backwards...that damn s drives me nuts. I've edited up to chapter 30 for one person and you'd think by now he would have noticed I keep deleting that letter and stop using it!!!

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know you British types think it's correct. He's not British.

I don't even know for sure if it is incorrect. They seem to be used interchangeably in American English. http://www.englishrules.com/writing/2005/t...-or-towards.php

 

It probably depends on the context, how it sounds with the words around it. However, the American Heritage Dictionary of English Usage claims that "toward" is used more often in American English, while "towards" is used more often in British English.

 

Also, Microsoft Word does not auto-correct words like towards. Firefox's spell checker does not either. However, they do with words like colour.

[Benji]

The largest British supermarket chain has tills (Cash Registers) which are designated for small number of purchases' customers. It is now changing from 10 items or less till labels,(should be 10 items or fewer), to "up to 10 items", due to the pressure from plain English groups. This has prompted a list of the most annoying uses of english. BBC annoying uses of english.

What are your comments, or do you have any pet hates.

 

Red

 

........I'm not sure I understand, are you being restricted in the amount of your purchases?

[MikeL]

I don't even know for sure if it is incorrect. They seem to be used interchangeably in American English. http://www.englishrules.com/writing/2005/t...-or-towards.php

The web site you noted says, in part:

The difference between the American and British version of "toward(s)" follows a general pattern that I've noticed. It seems that when Americans and Brits spell words differently, or use slightly different words to express the same thing, the American version is shorter, leaner, with fewer letters than the more decorative British version.

That is by design. When Noah Webster compiled the first American dictionary, he set a standard for omitting letters which do not affect the pronunciation of a word.

His most important improvement, he claimed, was to rescue "our native tongue" from "the clamor of pedantry" that surrounded English grammar and pronunciation. He complained that the English language had been corrupted by the British aristocracy, which set its own standard for proper spelling and pronunciation.

[Graeme]

........I'm not sure I understand, are you being restricted in the amount of your purchases?

In Australia and the UK, many supermarket chains have nominated registers for people with only a few purchases to make. The theory is that they will be processed faster. This means that if you only need a few things, you will hopefully end up in a line that will move faster than the line where someone has a very full shopping trolley. The signs are usually something like "8 items or less" or "15 items or less". From the original post, that wording is being changed because people have complained about the incorrect grammar....

[Benji]

In Australia and the UK, many supermarket chains have nominated registers for people with only a few purchases to make. The theory is that they will be processed faster. This means that if you only need a few things, you will hopefully end up in a line that will move faster than the line where someone has a very full shopping trolley. The signs are usually something like "8 items or less" or "15 items or less". From the original post, that wording is being changed because people have complained about the incorrect grammar....

 

.....Oh, hell we have that, in fact we have 'self-serve' where you scan you items and pay.

[MikeL]

BTW, September 24 is National Punctuation Day in the United States. Let's party!

[Benji]

BTW, September 24 is National Punctuation Day in the United States. Let's party!

 

......me thinks I've been poked fun at,,,,,,,

[MikeL]

......me thinks I've been poked fun at,,,,,,,

Sorry, Benji. No slight was intended.

 

I see "15 items or less" all the time at the check out; should be "15 or fewer items."

 

My English teacher wife fusses all the time about people asking "are you done?" Her response is "I haven't gotten into the oven yet." The correct word is, of course, "finished" rather than "done". And then there are all those "done" buttons on web sites...

[AFriendlyFace]

Apostrophe 's' for plural = my biggest peeve.

I was actually going to make a comment on this one anyway. While I definitely agree and strongly advocate correct use of the rule for most typical situations I'm actually very much in favour of bending it (or rather breaking it outright) for things like acronyms and dates.

 

CD's looks better than CDs (and of course CDS or cds is just horrible)

 

The 1960's looks better than The 1960s

 

There's generally more leniency for these situations anyway - in fact I've even seen them listed as correct in some sources - and I for one am definitely against doing them 'properly' in the strictest sense.

 

ETA: 'breath' and 'breathe', 'losing' and 'loosing'... and the well-worn phrase 'New and Improved!'

You should check out this old thread.

 

The web site you noted says, in part:

 

The difference between the American and British version of "toward(s)" follows a general pattern that I've noticed. It seems that when Americans and Brits spell words differently, or use slightly different words to express the same thing, the American version is shorter, leaner, with fewer letters than the more decorative British version.

 

That is by design. When Noah Webster compiled the first American dictionary, he set a standard for omitting letters which do not affect the pronunciation of a word.

That's precisely why I often favour British spelling. I think writing is something that very much should be 'decorative' and flowery. I write for pleasure and for art not for utility so I see no need to make my words 'short' and 'lean'.

 

Whatever makes them the prettiest is what I want

Edited September 6, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Bondwriter]

An example of the overuse of the apostrophe (pic taken in Austin, Texas):

 

 

I've always dreamed of owning a love knife, sadly enough I'm not a father. Lots of other interpretations possible.

[AFriendlyFace]

An example of the overuse of the apostrophe (pic taken in Austin, Texas):

 

I've always dreamed of owning a love knife, sadly enough I'm not a father. Lots of other interpretations possible.

[PlugInMatty]

In Australia and the UK, many supermarket chains have nominated registers for people with only a few purchases to make. The theory is that they will be processed faster. This means that if you only need a few things, you will hopefully end up in a line that will move faster than the line where someone has a very full shopping trolley. The signs are usually something like "8 items or less" or "15 items or less". From the original post, that wording is being changed because people have complained about the incorrect grammar....

 

haha, my local has 'Express Lanes'.

 

my rule: if it fits in a handbasket, it's fair game

[AFriendlyFace]

haha, my local has 'Express Lanes'.

 

my rule: if it fits in a handbasket, it's fair game

You know the Express Lane isn't the only place you can go with a handbasket although it's probably the most pleasant

 

 

 

They usually call them Express Lanes around here too...where do you shop, Matty?

Edited September 8, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[kitten]

I was actually going to make a comment on this one anyway. While I definitely agree and strongly advocate correct use of the rule for most typical situations I'm actually very much in favour of bending it (or rather breaking it outright) for things like acronyms and dates.

 

CD's looks better than CDs (and of course CDS or cds is just horrible)

 

The 1960's looks better than The 1960s

 

There's generally more leniency for these situations anyway - in fact I've even seen them listed as correct in some sources - and I for one am definitely against doing them 'properly' in the strictest sense.

 

What about:

'He had a huge collection of CDs, but one CD's cover stood out from all the rest because it was made from bright orange plastic.'

 

Personally, I don't think that CDs looks better or worse than CD's. However, if individuals start disregarding rules of punctuation or grammar just because they think the wrong way looks better then we might as well abandon all rules.

 

I suspect the 'leniency' you mentioned is merely a capitulation brought about because the mistake is made so frequently.

 

Another frequent error is the misuse of "its" and "it's".

Maybe some people also think "its" looks better. Do you think that the frequency of the error and some people's aesthetics should make us disregard that rule as well?

 

Kit

[PlugInMatty]

They usually call them Express Lanes around here too...where do you shop, Matty?

 

in Australia

[MikeL]

What about:

'He had a huge collection of CDs, but one CD's cover stood out from all the rest because it was made from bright orange plastic.'

 

Personally, I don't think that CDs looks better or worse than CD's. However, if individuals start disregarding rules of punctuation or grammar just because they think the wrong way looks better then we might as well abandon all rules.

 

I suspect the 'leniency' you mentioned is merely a capitulation brought about because the mistake is made so frequently.

 

Another frequent error is the misuse of "its" and "it's".

Maybe some people also think "its" looks better. Do you think that the frequency of the error and some people's aesthetics should make us disregard that rule as well?

 

Kit

I agree, Kit. The presence or absence of an apostrophe indicates which word (or two word phrase) you are using. It's a punctuation rule that people have a problem with because of variability in application. For example (based on your examples):

CDs...plural noun

CD's...possessive noun

its...possessive pronoun

it's...pronoun + verb (it is)

 

Even the lexicographers give up when a grammar error becomes common. The word "snuck" is frequently used in the US in place of "sneaked". Example: "He snuck into the room." "Snuck" is beginning to appear in American dictionaries now, making it "acceptable" even though most dictionaries note its irregularity.

 

I guess it's true that English is a living language, always growing with new words even if those words are grammatically incorrect. English lives no matter how many shots we take at it.

[Cynical Romantic]

I feel woefully left out of this debate, seeing as how, thanks to the Quebec language laws, virtually all public signs around here are in French.

 

Occasionally, the really anal-retentive will go into a shop or a restaurant and complain about inadequate use of French / French spelling or grammatical errors / overuse of English on signs / overuse of some language other than English or French on signs / anglicismes in French / insufficient use of French in the workplace / all of the above.

 

The difference is, when people like that complain in the US, they just rant, or take their business elsewhere if they're really upset. Here, they can file a complaint with the OLF and result in the establishment getting warned or fined... and often in a political firestorm.