Message Board Topic 1/26

[Comsie]

It's always a bit of good advice for authors to write for themselves, and ONLY for themselves. Once you get your mind wrapped around making 'this' person happy, and 'that' person happy, and keep 'these' people from complaining, and changing your original plan to make 'those' people keep reading...you end up being a slave to your own process. And a lot of times, the story can lose its heart. No author can please everybody, it's pointless to even try.

 

But...on the flipside of that idea, is the threat that you might be writing and struggling and pouring your heart out on the page...and not getting any recognition at all for it. No comments, no posts, no feedback, no emails. Neither compliment nor criticism. And that can cause an author to go through the most depressing feelings sometimes. There's no real reward to self expression if no one is listening.

 

The question this week is...is it possible for an author to write and share their work WITHOUT the 'visible' audience cheering them on? How much faith should an author have in the idea that people are reading and just not saying anything? And how long could any of you go without the love and support of a few replies before you just stop supporting the story yourselves? Artists do what they do because they love to do it...but what's the point of sharing if no one is willing to give back? What are your thoughts on this?

[David McLeod]

You said it: "Artists do what they do because they love to do it." On the other hand, I've never met anyone who didn't appreciate sincere flattery or an honest compliment. (I do know several who go into an "Aw, shucks" mode when complimented. It's kind of cute, really. You know who you are. )

 

I started writing strictly to please myself...and had no plans or intentions of sharing the stories. I think initially my goal was to preserve memories of people I'd known, as well as to create a "better" situation than the one in which I had known them. A fantasy world where male homosexuality was not only normal but essential became that "better" situation. (Can you say "escapism" and "wish fulfillment"?) (I don't know enough about female homosexuality to write convincingly about it; so, it's glossed over (absent, rather). This is a weakness in my writing, and not some sort of statement.)

 

One of Altimexis' stories led me to the GA site. The ease of posting stories; the ability to edit stories after they were posted; the "true-to-original" formatting; in other words, the mechanical aspects of the site, tempted me to post. The most excellent feedback (both "sincere flattery" and "corrective feedback" that pointed out flaws), as well as the personal messages by PM and email; the on-line friendships that have developed; in other words, the personal aspects of the site have kept me interested in continuing to post. In addition, the personal aspects have encouraged me to push beyond my own limitations, to take my writing more seriously, to read and study and to discuss the art and craft of writing, and to participate more actively as a reader, reviewer, and editor. And, yes, to write "for" others.

 

If I were to distill your original question into: Do you write for yourself OR for others? I'd answer: Yes...because it's not an "exclusive 'or' " in the question. (I know that's not the way you asked it. You put more thought into the questions than that.)

 

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm looking forward to what others have to say.

[Graeme]

There's no doubt in my mind that there are some people who write for the feedback. If they don't get feedback, they stop writing.

 

Otherwise write for themselves, and just happen to post their stories publicly so others can enjoy them. I even know of one author who discourages feedback, at least public feedback.

 

In between, you have a whole spectrum of authors. Initially, I was desperate for feedback. Even if I wasn't receiving many comments, I would check view counters to see how many people were looking at the story. Now, I'm confident enough that people are reading and enjoying my stories that I continue to post them even if I get minimal comments. I write for the audience, not myself, but I don't need to know what they are thinking. I like it when I do hear, but it's not a necessity for me.

[LongGone]

It's always a bit of good advice for authors to write for themselves, and ONLY for themselves.

Same advice I give when asked.

 

The problem is....

on the flipside of that idea, is the threat that you might be writing and struggling and pouring your heart out on the page...and not getting any recognition at all for it. No comments, no posts, no feedback, no emails. Neither compliment nor criticism. And that can cause an author to go through the most depressing feelings sometimes. There's no real reward to self expression if no one is listening.

I tell everyone I don't give a flying **** what other people think, and I don't. But nothing sucks worse than being ignored. I get lots of replies for what I think are weak stories and almost no replies for what I think are masterpieces. You have to be psychologically ready for it. Not everyone is.

 

And how long could any of you go without the love and support of a few replies before you just stop supporting the story yourselves? Artists do what they do because they love to do it...but what's the point of sharing if no one is willing to give back? What are your thoughts on this?

I hate it. But I keep writing. Sometimes I write and never post it because some things are so personal I'm not willing to risk rejection. Other times I post with much fanfare. And a few times, I've quietly had my stuff posted to see if anyone even notices. It's not an experiment for the faint of heart.

 

In between, you have a whole spectrum of authors. Initially, I was desperate for feedback. Even if I wasn't receiving many comments, I would check view counters to see how many people were looking at the story.

I've never looked at a story counter. I'm confident I'd give up on the spot. I believe most authors fall somewhere in the middle.

[hh5]

I basically writeformyself and if I do get a comment or feed back it sort of challenges me to expand my story.

 

If I don't get any feed back. I just come back to the story some time later - and - try to see if I made any boo boos. And I can say I'm still blind to them.

 

I do thank my editor profusely. Otherwise - the story would sit for a long while before I come up with enough courage to post it.

 

One of the other reasons why I would let a story sit - is to see - when I come back to read the story - I ask myself - Did I enjoy the story I read?

[Comicality]

You know, it's a strange thing with me. Because I try really hard to just write for myself. And more times than not, I'm doing just that. I write everyday regardless of if I ever post it not. There are stories that I've written YEARS ago that have never been posted anywhere. It was more for my peace of mind than anything else. So the actual WRITING part of it, I do for myself.

 

But when it comes to posting stuff online, that's when the opinions and feelings of other people come into play. And that's when I begin to stress over whether or not I'm making sense, or conveying the emotion I wan to get across. I start changing stuff at the very last minute, adding things, taking them away, trying to 'fix' what I feel is broken. And if it comes to the very last second when I KNOW that I'm supposed to post something on Friday...but it still doesn't 'feel' right, I end up delaying it a day or two (Sometimes a WEEK) until I think it's ready. The writing part is automatic for me, so that's the easy part. But making it ready for 'other' people to read...that takes me forever! And I stress about it constantly. And if I post something, and it gets no feedback or reaction, my mind automatically goes to the worst case scenario, and honestly...to me, it's embarrassing. I never want to be known for putting out mediocre or crappy stuff. And it sucks that it often makes people wait longer for stories, but it gets under my skin like you wouldn't believe to think that I did a shitty job when I could have waited and made things better.<p>

 

So...can I write without an audience? Sure. Can I POST without an audience...I doubt it. To me, being ignored is a rejection. And I would EXHAUST myself trying not to let that happen.

[David McLeod]

...It was more for my peace of mind than anything else....

 

But when it comes to posting stuff online, that's when the opinions and feelings of other people come into play. And that's when I begin to stress...But making it ready for 'other' people to read...that takes me forever!...And if I post something, and it gets no feedback or reaction, my mind automatically goes to the worst case scenario, and honestly...to me, it's embarrassing. I never want to be known for putting out mediocre or crappy stuff.

 

Wow. You really opened yourself up to us; thank you. The greatest gift is the gift of trust.

 

The notion that you wrote some things "for...peace of mind" is fascinating. Someone recently posted that they wrote because their characters seemed so real that the characters "demanded" to be written about (and, to be written about, well). I hope you will expand on the "peace of mind" idea. What was it that gave you that feeling before and after you'd written? Inquiring minds want to know

[Dolores Esteban]

It's hard to write with no or only little feedback. But I got used to it, lol. Well, I write historical fiction, the stories mainly set in Europe and in the 18th or 19th century. There certainly is an audience, but it's not a very popular genre in general. I received some great feedback recently. I will continue writing historical stories. It's my favorite genre. I think a writer should never try to write a story just to please his audience or get feedback. It won't work in the long run. He would lose his authenticity and his 'voice'.

[Comicality]

I hope you will expand on the "peace of mind" idea. What was it that gave you that feeling before and after you'd written? Inquiring minds want to know

 

I know what thats like! Hehehe, I've been trying to get certain characters to follow my 'game plan', and the little brats basically tell me, "No, I'm not doing that. Find another way." But I trust 'em.

 

I don't know if it's still in the archives of the "Library" on my site, but I posted nine or ten different unfinished stories that were years old but were never shown to anybody before. I'll leave a link if they're still there.

 

The peace of mind comes from the release of getting my thoughts out and giving them some kind of purpose. It's like....you know when you get in an argument with someone at school or at work, and even after it's over, you're still having that angry inner conversation with yourself that won't go away? You're thinking of all the good points you should have made and all the angry things you should have said at the time, and the conversation spins around and around endlessly until you get it out of your system? For me, I'm doing the same thing, but I'm typing it out on a keyboard. It puts all of my feelings and inner conflicts out there for me to deal with, and all of the little things that happen to me during an average day work their way into a story eventually.

 

That's a big reason why I don't just work on one story at a time. If I'm feeling good and had an awesome day, it's hard for me to try to write something really sad and blue. And if I'm frustrated or angry about something, it's even harder to write something playful and happy. So instead of being distracted, I take that anger and por that energy into something like "GFD" or "MOE" where it can really connect with the story, and relieve my mind at the same time. And when I see a cute guy and spend the day talking and laughing with him, I might come home and add to "Kiss Of An Angel" while that bubbly infatuation is still in me, pumping out all that sugary sweetness. Hehehe! It's not something I can really 'force'. I've tried, and the result is always terrible.

 

So yeah, the peace of mind is needed, and that's why I write for me and at my own pace. But posting is a whole other terrifying experience.

[StoriesByCirrus]

When I'm writing, I'm writing only for myself - and I think I tend to be my own harshest critic sometime. But I crave responses of pretty much any kind, just to know, that "hey, someone actually read this."

 

But here's a question for the authors: negative feedback - do you give it to other authors, and how do you handle it if you receive it? My own personal feeling is that many people will simply not post anything at all, rather than say anything negative to you - which could make things difficult if you're trying to improve your work, and analyse where you went wrong. Comsie is probably the only author I know well enough that I can feel comfortable suggesting areas where he might him improved without him completely freaking out. When I see a bunch of posts on the "Library" saying "Yay, great story, I love it" it does make me think twice about posting anything negative so I tend to give that kind of feedback in private. I'd like to think that if I received negative feedback I'd at least consider the feedback seriously, even if I didn't agree with it in the end. At the very least, it would mean someone cared enough about the story to want it to be better, which is a positive in and of itself.

[Graeme]

Welcome, Cirrus!

 

A good question. I take a leaf from management books -- praise in public and criticise in private. Unless I'm very confident with the person concerned, I won't criticise in public. I've also learnt that I have to be cautious with praise, too -- some people seem to think that when an established author says something, then that has to be "gospel", which is never the case.

[Verm]

Umm...can I agree to both writing for myself, and for the audience?

 

I just want to share my stories, and I get satisfaction writing it down and sharing it, even if no one reads it. I mean, I believe that eventually at least one in a million readers might actually stumble upon my story and read it, even if it's gonna be years on from now. Even if they don't vocalize it or leave any comments. I personally know at least 1 person who reads it now, and that's good enough for me. In any case, the story I'm writing currently will be the backbone of my future comic/manga, so I'll keep on writing it anyway.

 

Sometimes I (think) that I have a really awesome story in hand, and I can't wait to share and show it to anyone willing. But does that mean I write for myself, or for the audience? I think a little bit of both.

 

Regarding Cirrus's question, I prefer to receive negative comments than no comments at all. That's how authors grow, I guess. Admittedly, I am one of those who rarely give negative feedback myself. However, I only act that way for stories outside of my preferred genre which is fantasy, as I feel that it's not my expertise, so to speak. Also, sometimes I feel like I'm not good enough myself to give negative critique, especially to an author who has been writing longer than I have. But if I feel that a particular story has a lot of promise, even out of my genre, than I'll dish 'em out, either publicly or privately, depends.

 

 

 

Off topic: 3 new chapters of GFD almost back to back gave me multiple orgasms.