Hitting a woman

[MikeL]

Have you ever had a friend almost shove you into a busy road? I have. It was because he was so determined to be 'chivalrous' and walk on the outside of the pavement that he tried to push past me. With no warning.

 

He also refused to walk through doors if I held them open for him to go through first. The man would actually stand there pouting.

 

Aren't those just marvelous displays of respect?

Perhaps my opposition to hitting women deserves some reconsideration.

 

Obviously, a guy has to use common sense along with his consideration for the fairer (not weaker) sex. If she is resentful of his courtesy, he should seek the companionship of more appreciative women. I'm thinking gay guys have an advantage here.

[Persinette]

Perhaps my opposition to hitting women deserves some reconsideration. .

 

Feel free. I'm built like an old-fashioned German farmgirl; capable of putting my fist through a brick wall.

 

Obviously, a guy has to use common sense along with his consideration for the fairer (not weaker) sex. If she is resentful of his courtesy, he should seek the companionship of more appreciative women. I'm thinking gay guys have an advantage here.

 

But courtesy is only courtesy if it's welcome. Offering someone a slice of chocolate cake is courtesy, trying to force it down their throat is rude. Declining the cake is not resentful.

[Tarin]

And guys, always open and close a car door for any woman riding with you.

[Y_B]

Feel free. I'm built like an old-fashioned German farmgirl; capable of putting my fist through a brick wall.

 

Given that description, I would think you'd be more appreciative towards what some men do for you.

 

 

But courtesy is only courtesy if it's welcome. Offering someone a slice of chocolate cake is courtesy, trying to force it down their throat is rude. Declining the cake is not resentful.

 

 

Let's first define 'courtesy' and the implications thereof shall we? If I'm correct, courtesy is an expression of generally positively viewed manner in the form of social conduct and consideration for others. It speaks nothing of the possible unanimity to which it may be received, but rather adopting the truism of good intentions being usually well received. We would be hard pressed to perform a single action well received by all living creatures, however a cultural acceptance of the action would suffice. Given the logic, it would be irrational to deem a behavior as inherently disrespectful judging from the perspective of the very small percentage of the population in deviation from the norm, and when I say very small percentage, it is most likely not even statistically significant to be inclusive in any field of initial consideration. Additionally, it would be rather unreasonable for that percentage to ask for consideration without overt advertisement or requests otherwise. Since we are at Gayauthors, I will use the example of why it would not be rude for someone to ask a man or woman about their assumed opposite sex partner if said person had not been displaying outward signs of homosexual preference to begin with. "Do you have a girlfriend, John?", "Any lucky guys in your life, Jane?" With that said, perhaps the only disrespect come from those who expect societal inhabitants to be mind readers.

 

Secondly and back on direct topic, opening the door for the unwilling is not opening the door for the unwilling and subsequently pushing the person inside. In the process of opening the door, any little accidents such as bumping into the person in consideration are just accidents that reasonable people would forgive. On note of your friend who refuses to walk into a building that you've held the door open for, well that is his problem, and even you have admitted it seems rather odd to you that your simply gesture of kindness towards someone is met with rebuttal.

[Persinette]

Your experience with one man should not taint your perceptions of the rest.

 

I agree, I will never step in front of a woman to open the door for her, but if I am in front I always hold it open. Of course I do that for men and children as well. I also disagree that he will not go through a door that you hold open. I go through doors my sister holds open for me all the time.

 

Don't worry, I don't! Another of my friends prides himself on being chivalrous, but he lets me treat him in an equally gentlemanly manner and doesn't try to stick me solely in the role of the 'lady'. So all is good.

As for the rest, that's just ole fashioned manners! My mother would have blistered our ears if her kids didn't do those things .

 

 

Given that description, I would think you'd be more appreciative towards what some men do for you.

 

 

Classy. Tell me, do you respect all women this way?

 

(By the way, see those things in my avatar? Those are mine. They're 11 inches larger than my waist. Generally people could stand to be a little less, uh, appreciative.)

 

Let's first define 'courtesy' and the implications thereof shall we? If I'm correct, courtesy is an expression of generally positively viewed manner in the form of social conduct and consideration for others. It speaks nothing of the possible unanimity to which it may be received, but rather adopting the truism of good intentions being usually well received. We would be hard pressed to perform a single action well received by all living creatures, however a cultural acceptance of the action would suffice. Given the logic, it would be irrational to deem a behavior as inherently disrespectful judging from the perspective of the very small percentage of the population in deviation from the norm, and when I say very small percentage, it is most likely not even statistically significant to be inclusive in any field of initial consideration. Additionally, it would be rather unreasonable for that percentage to ask for consideration without overt advertisement or requests otherwise. Since we are at Gayauthors, I will use the example of why it would not be rude for someone to ask a man or woman about their assumed opposite sex partner if said person had not been displaying outward signs of homosexual preference to begin with. "Do you have a girlfriend, John?", "Any lucky guys in your life, Jane?" With that said, perhaps the only disrespect come from those who expect societal inhabitants to be mind readers.

 

Secondly and back on direct topic, opening the door for the unwilling is not opening the door for the unwilling and subsequently pushing the person inside. In the process of opening the door, any little accidents such as bumping into the person in consideration are just accidents that reasonable people would forgive. On note of your friend who refuses to walk into a building that you've held the door open for, well that is his problem, and even you have admitted it seems rather odd to you that your simply gesture of kindness towards someone is met with rebuttal.

 

Once someone's made it clear that they do not desire something, continuing to do so is ill-mannered. The original gesture is polite.

 

Also, I generally just ask people 'Do you have a boyfriend? Girlfriend?'. I assume their fragile heterosexual egos could weather the insult.

 

Mods: I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to move this discussion to the Soapbox?

[scotchirish87]

Holding the door for someone is a common courtesy not a charity for the weak or an act of seduction. It speaks volumes about people when they can and do perform these little selfless gestures, and I can proudly say that I was raised to hold the door unconditionally. It's not shown everywhere, which is unfortunate but it's not a bad thing to emulate.

 

I should have been clearer. I think holding doors is a good thing, and I usually do it, but I don't go out of my way to open a door for someone perfectly capable of doing it themselves. My point was really that I don't treat women as goddesses who's shit don't stink and that if necessary, a little smack isn't going to kill them.

 

 

 

[Y_B]

Classy. Tell me, do you respect all women this way?(By the way, see those things in my avatar? Those are mine. They're 11 inches larger than my waist. Generally people could stand to be a little less, uh, appreciative.)

 

Congratulations. You have succeeded in demonstrating the kind of thought-process that only works to lose women respect and have also attempted to win favor by exposing your breasts at a website used predominantly by gay men.Are you sure you are 21? I'm inclining to believe that perhaps your age has been exaggerated 11 years in addition to the 11 inches of larger chest size, in which case, this place is unfortunately not for you.

 

Mods: I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to move this discussion to the Soapbox?

 

Probably. However, I have no interest in further discussing inane matters with an ironically medieval feminist. My faith in the intellect of others on this site calls me to say that no one else would either.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Yang Bang

[Persinette]

Congratulations. You have succeeded in demonstrating the kind of thought-process that only works to lose women respect and also attempted to win favor by exposing your breasts at a website used predominantly by gay men.

 

Somehow I have the odd feeling that respecting women has never been high on your priorities. Decent men don't imply that women should be grateful for any scrap of male attention because they're so gosh-darn ugly.

 

Speaking of behaviour that loses respect for ones particular social group:

 

Given that description, I would think you'd be more appreciative towards what some men do for you.

 

Doesn't it feel good to know that you're the reason people unfairly judge young men? Men who think that insulting a woman's appearance is the same as debate are pitiful creatures.

 

I'm fairly sure my avatar is one I use on another site and that I have it because it's an injoke with a close friend. If only I'd realised was trying to lure gay men over to the dark side! You have truly opened my eyes.

 

Are you sure you are 21? I'm inclining to believe that perhaps your age has been exaggerated 11 years in addition to the 11 inches of larger chest size, in which case, this place is unfortunately not for you.

 

Well, my birth certificate does have the date scribbled in crayon over a layer of tippex. Could my mother have been lying when she said the hospital had just forgotten to flip the calender month over when they first wrote it?

[Johnathan Colourfield]

Ordinarily I'm old school in such matters but an old school woman would never think of doing some of the things that women are doing today.

 

I've seen women get aggressive and get in other peoples faces. If they are going to act that way, they should expect to be bitch-slapped.

 

I already love you. Will you marry me? XD

 

And yeah... i dont think its right to hit people, although i know self defense i never actually use it Although, it depends on the type of woman. If she's bulky and a big momma then i'm going nowhere near her if she hits me She'll belly flop me. But if shes scrawny, i'd still run cuz she could eat me XD I'm a whimp

[clumber]

As far as the actual topic of the thread goes then no, I am very unlikely to hit a woman because...well...I don't hit people. I'm not sure how the sex of the person really comes in to this but apparently thats so super-mega-important in these matters.

 

 

I will say, however, that some of the discussion in this thread is actually quite painful to read. People who I previously thought of as quite respectful and decent people clearly aren't... To begin with:

 

Congratulations. You have succeeded in demonstrating the kind of thought-process that only works to lose women respect and have also attempted to win favor by exposing your breasts at a website used predominantly by gay men.

 

Considering the site is called GayAuthors, doesn't it occur to you she didn't intend to, as you put it, "win favour". I mean, what favour you were expecting her to win I'm not sure. Perhaps you could explain?

 

 

Also, I have two compaints with this statement:

 

Probably. However, I have no interest in further discussing inane matters with an ironically medieval feminist. My faith in the intellect of others on this site calls me to say that no one else would either.

 

The first complaint is that I wouldn't consider the application of percieved 'chivalric' ideals in modern society (along with its implications on such issues as sexism and gender roles) to be 'inane'.

 

The second is that you seem to be assuming everybody else on this forum shares your opinions. That seems quite insulting.

 

 

Martin

Edited June 18, 2010 by clumber

[Y_B]

Considering the site is called GayAuthors, doesn't it occur to you she didn't intend to, as you put it, "win favour". I mean, what favour you were expecting her to win I'm not sure. Perhaps you could explain?

 

It'll serve the situation well by reading the sequence of posts and taking the discussion in it's entirely rather than singling out my "win favor" post. What I was expecting surely was not her presenting forward her chest size to me in an argument in civility. As far as I am concerned, "well, i have huge boobs, so I'm good" is quite a laughable response.

 

The first complaint is that I wouldn't consider the application of percieved 'chivalric' ideals in modern society (along with its implications on such issues as sexism and gender roles) to be 'inane'.

 

The second is that you seem to be assuming everybody else on this forum shares your opinions. That seems quite insulting.

 

What is inane is that a 21 year old girl was attempting to argue civility with a elderly man and retort his reasoning with words of pretension and thoughtlessness. It is perfectly acceptable to have a discussion on what one considers chivalrous and courteous, however given the direction the conversation had already been going and its content, there was little reason for me to uphold a level of interest.

 

As far as your second remark, yes perhaps that was not the best thing to say and I could have reworded it better, so I am sorry if my own pretension overcame me in the midst of argument. However, my +1 that somebody has given me clearly implies there is at least 1 person who agrees. Regardless, you may do what you wish based on your own judgments unmarred by my comment

Edited June 19, 2010 by Yang Bang

[Y_B]

I should have been clearer. I think holding doors is a good thing, and I usually do it, but I don't go out of my way to open a door for someone perfectly capable of doing it themselves. My point was really that I don't treat women as goddesses who's shit don't stink and that if necessary, a little smack isn't going to kill them.

 

 

Amen

 

 

[clumber]

It'll serve the situation well by reading the sequence of posts and taking the discussion in it's entirely rather than singling out my "win favor" post.

 

 

First things first, I find this remark quite offensive. I do know how threads work, and am in the habit of actually reading them.

 

 

 

What is inane is that a 21 year old girl was attempting to argue civility with a elderly man and retorted his arguments with words of pretension and thoughtlessness.

 

I am not quite sure what age has to do with this discussion. I mean, all things considered it's just a measurement of how long one has successfully avoided death.

Also, I thought Persinette's arguments seemed quite reasonable. Simply put, 'forcing me to fit a certain role and calling it manners is not polite'. I'm not sure how you could consider that to be thoughtless.

 

 

Martin

 

Oh, and one more thing:

 

However, my +1 that somebody has given me clearly implies there is at least 1 person who agrees.

 

I'd like to congratulate you on the most definitive example of petty oneupmanship I have ever seen. Well done. Have a banana.

[Y_B]

First things first, I find this remark quite offensive. I do know how threads work, and am in the habit of actually reading them.

 

 

etc

etc

 

Dude, give it a rest.

 

Maybe I shouldn't have jumped into a discussion not pertaining to me, but don't be a fool who follows the fool and keep fanning the flame when I had made it clear earlier that this part of the thread conversation is over.

 

Serious, just let it go, you got absolutely nothing to gain from me reading w/e more you're gonna retort. If you absolutely need to insult me further, move into the soapbox or privately message me, but this thread has become f**king stupid.

[clumber]

snip

 

Spotted in it's rare natural habitat, The Mighty Flounce.

[Persinette]

What I was expecting surely was not her presenting forward her chest size to me in an argument in civility. As far as I am concerned, "well, i have huge boobs, so I'm good" is quite a laughable response.

 

Nice strawman you got there. It flammable?

Let me break it down for you. Girl + large tits = tons of undesired attention = feels very little gratitude towards unwelcome attention.

 

 

What is inane is that a 21 year old girl was attempting to argue civility with a elderly man and retort his reasoning with words of pretension and thoughtlessness.

 

 

Could you please point to where I was pretentious? Argumentative, certainly. Supercilious, arguably, but pretentious? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

 

Serious, just let it go, you got absolutely nothing to gain from me reading w/e more you're gonna retort. If you absolutely need to insult me further, move into the soapbox or privately message me, but this thread has become f**king stupid.

 

 

 

 

Does this mean you're picking up your balls and going home?

[Y_B]

Yes I am picking up my balls and going home, but I'll be smiling along the way.

 

 

You two can gloat all night in your successful idiocy, but I'll bet before the sun rises, you'll both return to the corner of your padded cells and resume nibbling on your toe nails.

[Persinette]

Yes I am picking up my balls and going home, but I'll be smiling along the way.

 

 

You two can gloat all night in your successful idiocy, but I'll bet before the sun rises, you'll both return to the corner of your padded cells and resume nibbling on your toe nails.

 

Not only that, but the lurkers totally support you in email.

[D_of_Hazzard]

Not meaning to insult anyone, but there is a reason nobody else has joined in in discussion.

 

I know that none of you are dumb and/or inconsiderate, this is just an argument gone astray and truly I believe that it would be in the best intention of all three of you to give this a rest or this thread will be reported along with each of you.

 

I know this isn't my thread to dictate, but it has become rather annoying to see pop up with a negative and off topic insertion yet again.

 

Stop it.

 

Please.

[Persinette]

Not meaning to insult anyone, but there is a reason nobody else has joined in in discussion.

 

I know that none of you are dumb and/or inconsiderate, this is just an argument gone astray and truly I believe that it would be in the best intention of all three of you to give this a rest or this thread will be reported along with each of you.

 

I know this isn't my thread to dictate, but it has become rather annoying to see pop up with a negative and off topic insertion yet again.

 

Stop it.

 

Please.

 

Cool, dude. Sorry to derail a thread you were enjoying. If anyone feels perceived ideals of chivalry is a conversation they'd like to have I'll make a thread in the Soapbox.

 

My apologies for the mess. Next time I'll bring dusters.

[Arpeggio]

I don't think I would ever hit a girl. I would definitely defend myself from one, and it includes hitting, if they assaulted me first, but I would never just outright hit a girl/woman. I have started many fights with guys, throwing first punches and all that, but I won't do it with a female because I'm not comfortable with the idea of it, no matter how sexist, or old fashioned it seems. I will say I am not sexist, I do not believe women are inferior to me, I know a great deal could kick my scrawny butt.

 

I'm a guy, and I'll fight with a guy because I know how they pretty much work, but girls are unfamiliar territory to me, I don't feel natural even thinking about hitting one. It's not that someone put the idea that hitting girls is wrong in my head, it's simply that I'm not comfortable with the unfamiliarity of it. Unless they are attacking me, I won't hit them. If they get in my face, I'll walk away. I might not do the same for a guy, and it doesn't sound fair and equal but I just don't care.

 

And yeah, I do hold doors open for women, men too, but I usually find myself doing it more for women. I don't go out of my way to do it, but if I reach the door first and there are people behind me, I will hold it open and let them go first. To me, it's just polite, because I'm certainly not interested in seducing a girl

 

Besides, if something horrible was on the other side of the door, say the edge of a cliff, letting them go first would have warned me. It's logical thinking.

[wildone]

This topic has been moved to the Member and Question and Poll section.

 

This topic also was removed for a day while the forum moderators looked over it as it had degraded to being off topic and was resulting in derogatory statements that served no purpose of the discussion. The use of foul language was also a concern. Please keep in mind the sites Rules and Regulations when posting.

 

Due to the fact that the topic was getting back on topic and things have seem to settle down, we are making this topic available again. Please keep the above in mind.

 

Steve

 

Forum Moderation Team

[Bumblebee]

in my experiance, girls fight differently from guys, mainly name calling, pulling hair, slapping, some more name calling and genrally fight dirty

ive had fights with guys and girls, the guys have punched me with no problem at all, i fight dirty so most of the time the fight ends with the guy bent over holding his balls

 

i dont have a problem hitting women if the provoked me by starting the fight, but i would rather subdue them and try to work our whatever the problem is without any punches

 

i think that guys shouldnt hit girls, simply because, when ive been hit by a guy i know, then the trust is instantly gone, and ive never really been able to trust men since ive been hit by one of them

but with women, is a girl i know slaps me, i slap her back and we start yelling, and the next day we're friends again

 

and really most men are bigger then most women, well at least stronger, and they could do alot more damage then the average women could do to a man

 

 

[Y_B]

in my experiance, girls fight differently from guys, mainly name calling, pulling hair, slapping, some more name calling and genrally fight dirty

ive had fights with guys and girls, the guys have punched me with no problem at all, i fight dirty so most of the time the fight ends with the guy bent over holding his balls

 

i dont have a problem hitting women if the provoked me by starting the fight, but i would rather subdue them and try to work our whatever the problem is without any punches

 

i think that guys shouldnt hit girls, simply because, when ive been hit by a guy i know, then the trust is instantly gone, and ive never really been able to trust men since ive been hit by one of them

but with women, is a girl i know slaps me, i slap her back and we start yelling, and the next day we're friends again

 

and really most men are bigger then most women, well at least stronger, and they could do alot more damage then the average women could do to a man

 

Interesting observations. I'd like to comment on some of what you said above though mainly because I'm curious as to what you think. Basically what you summarized as some of the main differences between a guy hitting you and a girl hitting you is that one, guys are bigger and stronger, and two, guys lose their trustworthiness afterwards but girls do not. May I ask why the second reason came to be? Objectively speaking, the action of inflicting physical harm does not distinguish itself unique by gender, and from my perspective this phenomenon of trust-allocation is a matter of personal bias. A bite from a dog inflicts pain and frustration regardless of the gender of the dog, no? As far as physical size goes, there is a big gray area. From the reason that bigger men should not hit smaller women, will the hitting be justified if the man in question has a smaller physical size than the victimized girl? If so, should that be the exception to the rule? Also, would it make a difference to you if a girl who is taller and stronger hits you rather than a "regular" sized girl ? If so, are you proposing there is a threshold in size/strength difference that makes the action appropriate or inappropriate to you?

 

My main concern over the matter, which you have mentioned a bit, is the window that would be open for women to take advantage. For instance, you have admitted to fighting dirty and hitting below the belt, but do not take accountability for your own actions as you seem to believe that you as a girl reserve this right to inflict pain on others while men do not. The window it opens calls for many women to take advantage of men without repercussion and it simply should not be tolerated.

[Boy In Doubt]

Interesting observations. I'd like to comment on some of what you said above though mainly because I'm curious as to what you think. Basically what you summarized as some of the main differences between a guy hitting you and a girl hitting you is that one, guys are bigger and stronger, and two, guys lose their trustworthiness afterwards but girls do not. May I ask why the second reason came to be? Objectively speaking, the action of inflicting physical harm does not distinguish itself unique by gender, and from my perspective this phenomenon of trust-allocation is a matter of personal bias. A bite from a dog inflicts pain and frustration regardless of the gender of the dog, no? As far as physical size goes, there is a big gray area. From the reason that bigger men should not hit smaller women, will the hitting be justified if the man in question has a smaller physical size than the victimized girl? If so, should that be the exception to the rule? Also, would it make a difference to you if a girl who is taller and stronger hits you rather than a "regular" sized girl ? If so, are you proposing there is a threshold in size/strength difference that makes the action appropriate or inappropriate to you?

 

My main concern over the matter, which you have mentioned a bit, is the window that would be open for women to take advantage. For instance, you have admitted to fighting dirty and hitting below the belt, but do not take accountability for your own actions as you seem to believe that you as a girl reserve this right to inflict pain on others while men do not. The window it opens calls for many women to take advantage of men without repercussion and it simply should not be tolerated.

 

I agree, a punch is a punch, no matter who throws it.