California Culture: Circa 2000

[Mark Arbour]

OMG you so need to move to LA for a year or two to get a grasp on what life is really like in LA..... that hippy dippy girl is so divorced from reality as to what people want in LA.

 

I think Jeremy should move out West and live with you for a couple of years. 

[methodwriter85]

   Oh my god, I wouldn't last 2 weeks. 10-lane expressways scare me. LOL.

[B1ue]

They are only scary the first time. After that, it's easy.

[TetRefine]

Are California drivers as aggressive and impatient as their urban Northeastern counterparts? 

[methodwriter85]

Are California drivers as aggressive and impatient as their urban Northeastern counterparts? 

 

      I love it when I'm driving 75 on a 55 mph in the slow lane, and I still get passed. Or when I get honked at when I used my turn signal to make a legal turn.

 

      Not California, but I did hear that Virginia is actually a really big stickler for speed limits- like, they'll literally pull you over for going 5 miles over the speed limit. Here in Delaware, the only time I was pulled over, I was 17 miles over the speed limit...15-20 miles over tends to be when you might get pulled over, but you almost HAVE to go at least 10 miles over the speed limit in Delaware.

Edited May 17, 2014 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Are California drivers as aggressive and impatient as their urban Northeastern counterparts? 

I am told no, but I'm not actually certain, as I tend to not drive at all when I'm traveling. I know we have nothing on French or Italian drivers, or Texans, does that help?

 

I would guess that part of that has to do with how popular the clunkers-for-cash stimulus incentive proved in California. I'm sure a lot of people would like to be more aggressive, but it's hard to project that when you're driving a Honda Civic. It'd come off more like a enraged Chihuahua instead of actually threatening.

[Mark Arbour]

Some thoughts:

 

Ten lane freeways (not expressways) are not daunting, they just give you more opportunities to go faster.  Finding the speediest lane...now that's a challenge.

 

In my experience, California drivers are not more aggressive than those on the east coast, but they do tend to drive faster.  A friend of mine was talking about Dallas traffic to a resident of that metropolis, complaining about drivers not letting another driver into their lane.  The Texan's response was:  "You want in my lane, you have to earn it."  Slowing down and blocking traffic in one lane while you try to get the balls to transition into another lane isn't going to cut it.  I've found that to be true in California, and the east.   

 

And then there's my most hated driving taboo:  assholes who get in the fast lane and go slow.  They're everywhere, but I've never encountered more of them than I have in Florida.  That place is insane, with old people in their Buicks doing 55mph in the fast lane, and younger guys in their pick-ups weaving around them going 75. 

[methodwriter85]

  Yeah, Mark, I know they're called Freeways in California, due to the very funny scene in Clueless: "WE'RE ON THE FREEWAY!!!!", but I prefer to use "Expressway."

 

   I'm just trying to figure out how comments about earthquakes prompted Private Tim to talk about hippies. Anyway, I don't associate L.A. with hippie-dippies...that's for NorCal...if anything...this is how I view Los Angeles living:

 

 

    I'm going to admit right now I've always had a guilty pleasure lust for Brody Jenner. He seems like a vapid meathead, but what a looker. And he's always kind of pinged my "generally straight but willing to play on the other side if you get him drunk enough"-dar.

 

    This is the other way I view Los Angeles living:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_J7kPNe7fI

 

 

;-)

 

BTW, I learned that Dangerous Minds was not based in South Central L.A. like I thought, but in East Palo Alto, which was the big ghetto of the 1980's and 1990's, but the soaring property values of the Bay Area has even managed to hit there and cause gentrification. It went from 60 percent black in 1990 to about 15 percent now, and is now 65 percent Latino and 28 percent white. Pretty interesting.

 

East Palo Alto Facing the Gentrifcation Wave

 

Having Facebook right outside their border does seem like a big gamechanger for them.

Edited May 18, 2014 by methodwriter85

[TetRefine]

I don't think going fast equals aggressive. For example, driving in Manhattan is very slow but extremely aggressive. You have to be very skilled and very aggressive to drive through Manhattan, which is why I love it.

 

Even though California traffic is legendary, I always thought the West Coast laid back attitude made for a less aggressive experience even in rush hour. When I was in Vegas on the strip I remember thinking how much more courteous drivers were there despite the congestion. During rush hours in New York or Philadelphia, its dog-eat-dog and the car horn and middle finger are essential driving tools.

 

Interesting difference I guess. 

[Mark Arbour]

I don't think going fast equals aggressive. For example, driving in Manhattan is very slow but extremely aggressive. You have to be very skilled and very aggressive to drive through Manhattan, which is why I love it.

 

Even though California traffic is legendary, I always thought the West Coast laid back attitude made for a less aggressive experience even in rush hour. When I was in Vegas on the strip I remember thinking how much more courteous drivers were there despite the congestion. During rush hours in New York or Philadelphia, its dog-eat-dog and the car horn and middle finger are essential driving tools.

 

Interesting difference I guess. 

 

My experience suggests that the laid back attitude you refer to vanishes when a Californian gets behind the wheel. 

[TetRefine]

My experience suggests that the laid back attitude you refer to vanishes when a Californian gets behind the wheel. 

 

I guess there is just something about being in a car, stuck in traffic, that just makes people pissy and impatient, regardless of which coast you live on. 

[methodwriter85]

   Holy shit.

 

 

   I know you don't go there anymore and it's unlikely you know people who still do, Blue, but I know I'd be shaken if someone had shot up the UD or IUP area. My condolences. Crazy world.

Edited May 25, 2014 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Yeah. A couple of my friends teach there (as TAs), or live nearby, but none go there still.

 

I only wish I was more surprised, but hell. There's a reason that female students were told, almost first thing, "Do not walk alone at night, do not binge drink, trust no one." Because of jackasses like this that think women owe them something, and get enraged when they find out different. Binge drinking and hard partying is what UCSB student life is known for, but what hardly anyone talks about is the extremely high rate of sexual assault.

[methodwriter85]

   Which seems to go hand in hand at party schools. UD's a semi-party school- absolutely nothing like UCSB, and thankfully sexual assault wasn't a huge problem on campus. It happened, but I wouldn't say it was an epidemic on campus. Of course, University of Delaware by the late 2000's was pretty strict on their fraternities. I know that back around 2003 or so, TKE got kicked off campus for a lot of bad stuff they did. My older sister said that there' a rumour that they raped a girl after roofying her, then left her at the train track, where she was ran over and died. I think there's a permanent ban on TKE at University of Delaware, so who knows? I think it's entirely possible.

 

   It's crazy when you look at that kid- this good-looking guy in a BMW who has clearly been handed every advantage in life, yet he was a raging sociopath with a deep-seated hatred for women. What a stark reminder to remember that the Boogeyman doesn't always look like it.

 

    I seriously don't get how women deal with all this msygonistic crap in society and guys like this- milder version, yes, but it seems like there's no short supply in guys who really do expect that women "owe" them sex because they dare to look pretty.

Edited May 25, 2014 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

   Which seems to go hand in hand at party schools. UD's a semi-party school- absolutely nothing like UCSB, and thankfully sexual assault wasn't a huge problem on campus. It happened, but I wouldn't say it was an epidemic on campus.

 

That's a pretty broad statement, and I'd question how you know that.  One of the biggest problems with sexual assaults on campus is that most go unreported.  It's entirely possible that it was rampant at UD (do not give me anecdotal disclaimers) and people were unaware of it.

[methodwriter85]

   Good points, Mark. I think I figured that because UD, at the time I went there, was only 18 percent Greek, and the Greeks that were on campus were pretty strictly regulated. There was no big, out-of-control frat scene complete with frat wars at UD in the late 2000's. We also had events like Walk A Mile in Her Shoes and I never picked up on some big msygonistic vibe there, as opposed to the vibes I've gotten from real party schools like Penn State. Which makes sense, because the school was about 60 percent female. But you're right- that's something I can't really know.

 

   In any event, it's a crazy story.

[Irritable1]

Not to minimize what took place in Santa Barbara, but I can't think of it as a natural outgrowth of institutionalized campus misogyny, despite the whole Twitter thing. This guy was *crazy*, enough that concerns had been raised previously by his family.  In my opinion, it's not qualitatively the same thing as a group custom of getting women drunk and raping them (or a group decision to lie to cover such events).

 

It reminds me of the McGill killings my freshman year in college, though again, I'd be hard-pressed to find a direct link between the shootings and the daily microagressions experienced at that time  by women in science and engineering classes.

[B1ue]

Not to minimize what took place in Santa Barbara, but I can't think of it as a natural outgrowth of institutionalized campus misogyny, despite the whole Twitter thing. This guy was *crazy*, enough that concerns had been raised previously by his family.  In my opinion, it's not qualitatively the same thing as a group custom of getting women drunk and raping them (or a group decision to lie to cover such events).

 

It reminds me of the McGill killings my freshman year in college, though again, I'd be hard-pressed to find a direct link between the shootings and the daily microagressions experienced at that time  by women in science and engineering classes.

I don't want to minimize whatever mental health issues Rodgers may or may not have had, but I also don't want to forget that this was a hate crime. That what concerned his family enough to call the police on him was the vitriol he spewed online regarding women in general and the female students he attended classes with in particular. Hell, would mental illness be so pervasively blamed if he had shot up a Black, Hispanic, or queer interest dorm instead of a sorority? Or would police be now scouring the forums he frequented, looking up IPs to find like-minded confederates who might also prove to be a threat?

 

I want to believe he was mentally unbalanced. It's easier to think about if I can point to a failure source and say, a couple pills in the right place and this would not have happened. But I know that, generally, that's not how hate crimes work. It starts with irrational hatred, blossoms with the encouragement like-minded peers, and ends with a violent solution being the only action left to take, because anything less would be cowardice and a betrayal of the mindset that created it.

 

Maybe it is different for me, because I'm Mexican, and slight. I *know*, in my marrow and soul where rationality needs not appear, that microaggression can escalate to violence quickly. However rarely it happens, I've seen it happen, and killers aren't color-coded or sorted into Slytherin for convenience of paperwork.

 

Again, I don't want to say that you're wrong. You may well be correct; I am certainly in no position to make a psychiatric diagnosis on this person. But if incidents like this don't start being talked about and treated as the hate crimes that they are, I am very much afraid that they will only escalate.

[Irritable1]

Hell, would mental illness be so pervasively blamed if he had shot up a Black, Hispanic, or queer interest dorm instead of a sorority? Or would police be now scouring the forums he frequented, looking up IPs to find like-minded confederates who might also prove to be a threat?

 

 

I'm reminded of a conversation with my cousin, when he said that a Muslim mass murderer is guaranteed to be described as "radicalized" but a similar killer of a different religion or ethnicity will be said to have "just snapped." 

 

I don't know what the answer is either. My own, purely anecdotal, info is that in my 25 years in this country, I've experienced bias a bunch of times and I've never had it turn into this kind of violence. So they feel like two different things to me. But that could just mean that I'm compartmentalizing things to make myself feel better.

[methodwriter85]

   Okay, so to take things back to a light-hearted tone...check out these Los Angeles dudes talk about dating in Los Angeles:

 

 

   I'm not sure how accurate this is, but watching it kind of made me miss the simplicity of the white wifebeater on guys. It seems like it's all funky patterns and graphics now.

[PrivateTim]

I think the discussion is getting close to the now banned political forum, but this was not a hate crime. It was very clearly a mental health issue and no one wants to start talking about mental health issues because no one likes the answers about forced commitment and forced medication.

 

This also clearly not a crime against women. That he couldn't get laid by women was merely the fixation of his mental illness. Did no one notice that he murdered more Asian men than he did women? Or that male victims outnumbered female victims 2 to 1?

 

College students getting drunk and having sex isn't new. This aggressive language of tarring men as predators for "getting women drunk and raping them" is ridiculous. The incidents of women actually raped while they were passed out or unable to consent are quite few, but the modern feminist interpretation of any impairment on the part of the woman constitutes a rape case against the man is absurd.

 

The focus of the Santa Barbara shootings should not shift off mental health issues, which is where it lies.

[Irritable1]

 This aggressive language of tarring men as predators for "getting women drunk and raping them" is ridiculous. The incidents of women actually raped while they were passed out or unable to consent are quite few, but the modern feminist interpretation of any impairment on the part of the woman constitutes a rape case against the man is absurd.

 

 

Shrug. Can't really respond without breaking forum rules, but I can say that "modern" is a bit of a stretch given that I first became aware of issues around impairment and consent when I was first in college, over 20 years ago now, and the issue far from being a new one then.

[Daddydavek]

.. was very clearly a mental health issue and no one wants to start talking about mental health issues because no one likes the answers about forced commitment and forced medication.

 

 

 

Back in the dark ages of the 1950's and earlier we had large state institutions for the insane.  People were committed and force fed drugs to keep them complaisant.  It was horrible.  Of course, the pendulum swung too far in the other direction and now it is nearly impossible to get a psychiatric commitment and then they are usually only a 96 hour hold.  

 

So now we have a whole group of people who should be institutionalized, who aren't and it hasn't worked out as bad as many thought.  However, there are exceptions and when horrific crimes are committed we wonder why no one picked up on their bizarre behavior earlier.  And of course, people had, but their hands were tied unless the person presented an imminent threat.  

 

The sad truth is, that even professionals can not always or even most of the time tell with any precision when a mentally ill person will lose it and commit an atrocity.  The even sadder truth is that there is so much stigma to mental illness that most people who need treatment don't get it because they can't afford to be labelled and also they can't afford the treatment.

  

As much as people seem to hate the Affordable Care Act, one of it's goals was to increase insurance coverage for mental health treatment.  Perhaps over time, it will make a small difference. 

Edited June 2, 2014 by Daddydavek

[PrivateTim]

Shrug. Can't really respond without breaking forum rules, but I can say that "modern" is a bit of a stretch given that I first became aware of issues around impairment and consent when I was first in college, over 20 years ago now, and the issue far from being a new one then.

 

Modern feminism started in the 1960's and early 70's with Betty Friedan and then led to Catherine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworkin and the rest.

[Mark Arbour]

Modern feminism started in the 1960's and early 70's with Betty Friedan and then led to Catherine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworkin and the rest.

 

I always thought it started with Nancy Sinatra.