Furthering an Already Astounding Segregation

[Shatt3r3dGlass77]

http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2011/11/15/transgender-co-high-school-student-suspended-for-having-to-pee/

 

 

Had the teens requested priveledges to use seperate bathrooms out of need for comfort and privacy, this MAY have seemed acceptable. But what we have here is complete ignorance. I remember how hard it was to deal with the social segregation that occured in high school based on the values of other students, but to think that this was initiated and enforced by staff! I have no words.

 

Thoughts and comments would be great.

[Robbiee]

Sheesh. It's not like you can catch 'trangenderism' or whatever is going on in their ignorant minds.

 

Sigh. It was just a trip to the bathroom.... and now it's turned into this.

[PrivateTim]

My thought is this topic belongs in the Soapbox, not the Lounge.

[Shatt3r3dGlass77]

Ahhh, you may be right, as this is kind of politically motivated. Ill keep it in mind in future postings.

[Palantir]

Well, I can't see any reason why the plight of transgendered students shouldn't be treated openly.

It would surprise me if this topic resulted in loud and opinionated discussion.

[PrivateTim]

Well, I can't see any reason why the plight of transgendered students shouldn't be treated openly.

It would surprise me if this topic resulted in loud and opinionated discussion.

 

The entire article was a loud and opinionated article.

 

Dionne and "Kurt" were not banned from using the restrooms all the other students use, they had the option of using the restrooms that biology dictates. Dionne, a male biologically, chose to ignore the accommodation from the school of using the faculty restrooms and used a woman's restroom. The suspension was for a man being in a woman's restroom.

 

I don't find the suspension out of line.

[Palantir]

Oops! I made the mistake of presuming the right of transgendered people to be recognised as such.

If people don't see that as a reasonable right then there WILL be loud and opinionated discussion.

[Persinette]

Wait, trans issues belong in the soapbox? Who are we, Michigan Womyn's Music Festival?

[Mac Marcos]

hmmm. We're kinda brewing something here. Its nice to know your opinion. Segue. Where can i find that 'soapbox' forum?

[JamesSavik]

I know for sure that Southern schools go psycho dealing with gay kids.

 

Stuff like this shows that they are even less prepared to cope with trans-gendered teens.

[Bill W]

Unfortunately, the smaller the mind, the more tightly they try to enforce 'rules.'

[clumber]

hmmm. We're kinda brewing something here. Its nice to know your opinion. Segue. Where can i find that 'soapbox' forum?

 

The soapbox is here. You can also find it by scrolling down quite a way on the main page. It's basically where discussions go if there is a major dispute over a political issue.

 

 

I know for sure that Southern schools go psycho dealing with gay kids.

 

Stuff like this shows that they are even less prepared to cope with trans-gendered teens.

 

 

Yeah. I don't know what it's like over there but one of the problems people have trying to get any sort of change into schools who don't want it is that even if you manage to win the long, hard fight of actually getting the new rules passed, it is simply followed by an even longer fight of getting schools to actually implement them. If a place doesn't want to do something, they can drag things out and block progress in all sorts of ways.

 

 

Martin

[Mac Marcos]

okay, i just read the article. Its hard to give a black or white opinion cause we need to consider the interests of all parties concerned. Lemme settle with a gray one.Dionne feels comfortable peeing in women's comfort room, yes she's biologically male but i think she doesn't have the 'tool' to be classified as male anymore. We also need to consider how the other stundents feel about the issue, especially the girls, since they're using the premise as well

[PrivateTim]

Oops! I made the mistake of presuming the right of transgendered people to be recognised as such.

If people don't see that as a reasonable right then there WILL be loud and opinionated discussion.

 

Who says the school doesn't recognize their transgender status? In fact the school explicitly does recognize their plight which is precisely why they allowed them to use restrooms normally reserved for faculty. The most dangerous place for a transgender student on a campus is in a bathroom.

 

Dionne created the drama by breaking the rules that had been established to keep her safe.

[PrivateTim]

okay, i just read the article. Its hard to give a black or white opinion cause we need to consider the interests of all parties concerned. Lemme settle with a gray one.Dionne feels comfortable peeing in women's comfort room, yes she's biologically male but i think she doesn't have the 'tool' to be classified as male anymore. We also need to consider how the other stundents feel about the issue, especially the girls, since they're using the premise as well

 

No Dionne still has her male member, she isn't a transsexual, or at the article didn't state so. I don't believe she is seeking reassignment surgery.

[Persinette]

No Dionne still has her male member, she isn't a transsexual, or at the article didn't state so. I don't believe she is seeking reassignment surgery.

 

The term transgender is a blanket term that often includes people who identify as transexual. 'Transexual' is also not used to exclusively refer to post-op or pre-op individuals. Non-op trans folk are not omitted from it.

 

Neither the article nor the video within it makes any reference to reassignment surgery, so no-one here can say what her plans are.

[clumber]

Who says the school doesn't recognize their transgender status? In fact the school explicitly does recognize their plight which is precisely why they allowed them to use restrooms normally reserved for faculty. The most dangerous place for a transgender student on a campus is in a bathroom.

 

Dionne created the drama by breaking the rules that had been established to keep her safe.

 

 

But it is also made very clear that forcing the students to use staff toilets made them feel targeted and that the staff facilities were not adequate. I take it this is protecting trans students from harrassment in the same way that a school protected lesbian students by not letting them go to the Prom?

 

 

Martin

[Palantir]

A number of points.

 

First - according to the article the students WERE banned from using student facilities.

'Dionne and Kurt have been banned from using the numerous student restrooms located throughout the rest of the school like the rest of their classmates, and have been instructed to use only the few staff facilities.'

 

Second - I wasn't in any way referring to the school's view of the students. My mistaken assumption was that in this forum those rights would be so taken for granted as to give no rise for controversy.

 

Third - It's not accurate to state that the rules were made to keep the students safe. It's a reasonable assumption, but nevertheless there is no mention of safety in connection with the rules in either the article or the related video.

[Dannsar]

Blimey O'Riley!

 

I didn't comment on this earlier, because, like Iarwain, I didn't think this was a conentious issue herein. How wrong can a boy be?!

 

Firstly, let's clear something up. These kids are not transgendered. They are 'as yet untransexuals'. Gender is sexual identity, not sex or sexuality. Sex is what you are born with, not gender or sexuality. Sexuality is orientation towards for sexual relations, not gender or sex. The gender of these two is clear. And it is different from their sex.

 

The separation of toilets comes down to notions of privacy frm the suspected other ... generally females seeking protection from males. However, if we accept that the 'boy' here is actually gendered as a girl, then 'his' status is therefore not an issue to have in the female toilets. Because, in likelihood of doing harm to other users, there is no more likelihood than any other woman doing so. The other females are under no 'threat'.

 

So, essentially, this is a stupid ruling.

 

Furthermore, at least in the UK, it is necessary to spend one (or perhaps two, actually) years living as the other sex before getting the operation. I don't know the situation in the US, but I'd be surprised if it were much different. Therefore, if it is expected that the sexual male operates as a sexual female for a period of time, then it is surely the point to allow them to use the destination toilet (or gender appropriate toilet). Doing otherwise is infringing their right to operate in the world as they actually are (people of the opposite actual sex as opposed to people of their own physical sex). And it is contradictory to the transition conditions of living as the opposite sex.

 

I can see Tim's point. The suspension was for breaking an instructed rule. However, I can't agree that it is a clever rule. Seriously, it going to do no harm if they use the other sex's toilets. Girls are not likely to suffer because they will just have a likeminded 'boy' in there, as I pointed out earlier. And the chances of getting an adolescent male to dress AND act as a female just get into the female toilets are so astonishingly minute as to be laughable. Their peers would take the piss out if them - one good reason for an adolescent male to avoid this action, or; their peers would kick the shit out of them for being different. And, yes, puns intended So, it is so unlikely that it makes the rule look ridiculous.

 

Someone argued that the school was being very good, making an accommodation. Well, for a start, this isn't a disability. Well, it is ... of the 'normal' students to see the issue sensibly, and of the school to educate them in that. Accommodations are for disability, at least in the UK.

 

And by making this ever so generous provision, the school is effectively saying that the child is wrong both ways. Or to put it another way, they can't do right for doing wrong. And that is a pretty cruel situation to put an already frightened adolescent in.

 

It's just plain silly at best, and just plain discriminatory at worst.

 

And why hasn't a mod moved this yet? It would not be unusual for them to do that. It clearly is a contentious isse, and it clearly is politically driven as it is based on the daft fears and prejudices of the 'normals'.

[thatboyChase]

you wrote all of that for some article on a website called "unicornbooty" hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaa

[Dannsar]

Chase,

 

I'm sorry, silly of me I know. By the way, I think you made a temporal syntax error on your profile.

[thatboyChase]

i really don't care about whatever you're talking about, but i am not one for temporal syntax errors, rifts actually, personally i like tesseracts or Jarovian Portal Gates, do you know what those are? last month i gave up driving cars and ride dragons now too, bitch.

 

what was the error again? oh yes, you existing on this board. ~.O

 

p.s i also thought it was hilarious you think the mods will move an article from unicornbooty.com to the soapbox, cause unicornbooty totally is legitimate.

[PrivateTim]

A number of points.

 

First - according to the article the students WERE banned from using student facilities.

'Dionne and Kurt have been banned from using the numerous student restrooms located throughout the rest of the school like the rest of their classmates, and have been instructed to use only the few staff facilities.'

 

Second - I wasn't in any way referring to the school's view of the students. My mistaken assumption was that in this forum those rights would be so taken for granted as to give no rise for controversy.

 

Third - It's not accurate to state that the rules were made to keep the students safe. It's a reasonable assumption, but nevertheless there is no mention of safety in connection with the rules in either the article or the related video.

 

When ever I come across a story like this, one that is caught up in the echo chamber of the gay blogosphere or gay media is go find non-biased, or as non-biased as possible, websites to read the story.

 

I read probably 15 different accounts of this story.

 

Here is one quote from one of them, "Dionne Malikowski, 16, a transgender student at the school, said she believes she should have the same rights as any student to use the bathroom of her choice." I can't say that I knew a student has the right to pee in a restroom of their choice? So actually, we all know they don't. Boys use boys restrooms and girls use girls, I've never heard of the option to do otherwise.

 

The most interesting aspect to me is, why is this coming up now? The suspension was over a month ago and it is just now hitting news sources?

 

you wrote all of that for some article on a website called "unicornbooty"

ha ha

 

Yes Chase.

[Canuk]

The weird thing about this debate is the assumption that people cannot share bathroom facilities. In the three countires I have lived in I have yet to encounter a house that has bathrooms for different sexes. In my travels I have encountered public toilet facilities that are there for people to use (occaisionally bizzarrely labeled "Unisex").

 

As far as I am concerned provided it's clean, who used it last, or who'll use it next is not something I really spend much time worrying about.

[Dannsar]

There are at least two clubs in Manchester where there are shared facilities. I have to say I prefer them. I've never understood the separation. I've never understood single sex hospital wards either, and we have a lot of greeting about that here.

 

On the other hand, any man who thinks a place where women are, en masse and likely to get mischievous, is a safe place, is a damned fool. Hell, when they get going, they're daaaaaaaangerous