methodwriter85 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In otherwords: The world didn't completely shut down for it. Not where I was, anyway. I mean, I get that its effects would be felt differently from place to place, but it had no real great effect on me at all. I didn't know anyone personally who died then, and for what it's worth, the first time I ever flew on a plane was in 2009 (right around this time that year, actually). Life went on, but it did change. I remember on 9/11, one woman posted at this message board we were on that the government surplus we had, which was FINALLY able to start going towards education and health care, was all going to go to fighting this new war we were in. Damned if she wasn't right. We went from being raised during an amazing economic boom with no wars to coming of age in a hit-or-miss economy with spiraling government debt and a 10-year war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centexhairysub Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well, the new chapter of Paternity is up and damn, is it good... I loved how Will and Stef bonded and then Will and Ryan bonded even better. I don't think that Will is ever going to be in love with Ryan but like he says in the chapter he loves him, if you don't understand the difference, I can't explain it. Will really comes face to face with some of the things he did and learns a little bit about responsibility. I do think there is something else behind the behaviour of the school, but we might find that out latter. Mark, this was just a great feel good chapter.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Well, the new chapter of Paternity is up and damn, is it good... I loved how Will and Stef bonded and then Will and Ryan bonded even better. I don't think that Will is ever going to be in love with Ryan but like he says in the chapter he loves him, if you don't understand the difference, I can't explain it. Will really comes face to face with some of the things he did and learns a little bit about responsibility. I do think there is something else behind the behaviour of the school, but we might find that out latter. Mark, this was just a great feel good chapter.... Glad you liked it. I think that Will and his Dad are learning from their mistakes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I wasn't thrilled with Will getting his get-out-of-jail-free card, but then again, everyone's entitled to one in high school. I don't think Will is going to make a habit out of testing what he can get away with at Harvard-Westlake. Since Will is actually supposed to do lunch duty as a 9th grader for three service periods, as outlined here: Ninth-grade students share the responsibility for serving during the school day. Students monitor the lunch area, encouraging and helping their peers and faculty to maintain the cleanliness of common eating areas. Ninth-grade students must sign up to serve during three periods to fulfill their obligation. Students who do not fulfill their campus service obligation during the school year will fulfill this requirement on the day of the year-end class trips. Do you think we'll see him do one with Ryan at some point? A Malibu Colony prince wearing a hairnet and cleaning tables is a pretty hilarious thought. I like that Harvard-Westlake really tries to keep their impossibly wealthy kids as grounded as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 I wasn't thrilled with Will getting his get-out-of-jail-free card, but then again, everyone's entitled to one in high school. I don't think Will is going to make a habit out of testing what he can get away with at Harvard-Westlake. Since Will is actually supposed to do lunch duty as a 9th grader for three service periods, as outlined here: Do you think we'll see him do one with Ryan at some point? A Malibu Colony prince wearing a hairnet and cleaning tables is a pretty hilarious thought. I like that Harvard-Westlake really tries to keep their impossibly wealthy kids as grounded as possible. The headmaster said that Ryan served his time for him. I thought that was pretty clear, on the last few pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Right, I thought that meant the extra lunch duty they were likely going to give to Will, not the actual required service amount as required under the SQUID program because you want to avoid the thought of Golden Boy in a hairnet doing lunch duty. You can't just have Will get out of doing something that every 9th grader at the school is supposed to do. I can see him getting out of a punishment, but not an actual requirement. I can't see a school that went through the bother of setting up lunch duty as a service requirement for their kids as a means towards building a sense of humility and social duty actually letting people get out of it...if one kid did it, other kids would do it, and that would defeat the entire purpose of having SQUID there in the first place. Julian, you wanna weigh in on this? I'm curious what you thought. The other question I was wondering about...is Will in any other extracurricular activities aside from the tutoring? I was thinking Environmental Club and Surf Club. Edited June 2, 2012 by methodwriter85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat8997 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I will continue to keep it classy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ85 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Right, I thought that meant the extra lunch duty they were likely going to give to Will, not the actual required service amount as required under the SQUID program because you want to avoid the thought of Golden Boy in a hairnet doing lunch duty. You can't just have Will get out of doing something that every 9th grader at the school is supposed to do. I can see him getting out of a punishment, but not an actual requirement. I can't see a school that went through the bother of setting up lunch duty as a service requirement for their kids as a means towards building a sense of humility and social duty actually letting people get out of it...if one kid did it, other kids would do it, and that would defeat the entire purpose of having SQUID there in the first place. Wouldn't this fall under Will himself wondering just what's going on? I would think his getting out of lunch duty will be addressed, whether it's a punishment, whether it was required duty, or just where-the-fuck-ever it came from. Besides, even if it was required duty that he got out of...you assume the other kids will notice that fact. Nevermind that Will's keeping up the premise that he got punished, punished badly at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Right, I thought that meant the extra lunch duty they were likely going to give to Will, not the actual required service amount as required under the SQUID program because you want to avoid the thought of Golden Boy in a hairnet doing lunch duty. You can't just have Will get out of doing something that every 9th grader at the school is supposed to do. I can see him getting out of a punishment, but not an actual requirement. I can't see a school that went through the bother of setting up lunch duty as a service requirement for their kids as a means towards building a sense of humility and social duty actually letting people get out of it...if one kid did it, other kids would do it, and that would defeat the entire purpose of having SQUID there in the first place. I think you grossly misunderstand the lunch duty of the 9th graders. They aren't bus boys or server ladies, they are monitors, they get to be in charge, they are telling their peers and the younger kids to pick up their crap. Do they have to pick up stuff themselves? Not really, not any more than the faculty members with their Maters and PhDs have to, they are supervising the people to get the job done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) I was fully prepared for you to tell me I'm wrong. I'm cool with it. I've just been on a proletariat kick lately- I must have absorbed the rantings of my Occupy! buddy Steve and my Early American Labor professor than I thought I had. Rich kids getting special treatment bothers me more than it used- UD was a pretty affluent school...IUP wasn't...and I think that changed my viewpoint a lot. I really find myself identifying with blue-collar Appalachian folks these days. In any sense, it does set up a quid-pro-quo for Ryan and Will's friendship. I really have enjoyed seeing Will in the school atmosphere, as opposed to Poor Man's Son when he was leading the life of a 20-year old guy. Edited June 3, 2012 by methodwriter85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 I think the more logical approach is to put yourself in the shoes of the headmaster. One of your brightest students from one of the wealthiest families has a total meltdown and runs away. Your number one goal is for this kid to return to your institution and continue to excel. You are not going to be petty and try to extract a pound of flesh. You know the kid is seeing a shrink (Brad would have told him that). You will assume that, barring some new problem, things are being handled and you will gladly stay out of it. And if you have to bend a policy or two, the whole institution won't come crashing and burning down, but you will have some rich and influential people who owe you a favor or two. Now think about the alternative, where you rigidly enforce the rules and potentially cause problems for the bright kid. He leaves your school and his family hates you. Yeah. That's real smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Right. That all makes sense. Like I've said before, I tend to put myself in the shoes of a 14-year old me whenever I get to Will's parts, because I relate to Will as a peer. That's why I tend to react that way - I don't put myself in the shoes of an adult for these parts. I've been working my way through why exactly this chapter bugged me so much, and I came to the basic realization that it pissed me off so much that this kid gets rules bended for him because of his family's money and influence. The adult part of me realizes that connections are important, and that considering the field I'm getting into, soliciting donations from well-heeled patrons with an interest in history will be something I'll eventually need to do. After all, I grew up in a state that was essentially built on the noblesse oblige of the du Pont family. But the teenaged part of me, the part that gets brought out because we're in 2000 in the story, really hates the unfairness of it. The logical, mature part of myself gets it. The whiny, jealous brat who doesn't understand why his friends can go off to Europe and have brand-new shiny Ipods while he can't doesn't get it. Plus, I also had a steady diet of getting to hear about the viewpoint of Appalachian coal miners for the past two years while living in Western PA, so I've taken on a proletariat viewpoint lately. In any event, this was a pretty good chapter, and a nice development of Ryan and Will's friendship. You've actually done a pretty damn good job of developing that friendship- it comes off as deeper than the one that Brad had with Lark in Be Rad. Edited June 3, 2012 by methodwriter85 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Harvard Westlake isn't a public school with rigid, "the five year old brought a plastic knife to school to cut his apple, let's suspend him under our no tolerance of weapons policy" type policies. They care about their kids, and not just because they are paying $30k a year or have powerful parents, they care about their scholarship kids too. They use common sense and compassion when dealing with their kids. When a kid melts down like Will did their inclination isn't to pile on but to look for ways to help. The school also understands the pressure they put on kids and that a lot of the kids parents put on them and they look for signs of a kid cracking and buckling and they work hard to prevent that and help the kids. The private schools of the 1990's and on aren't the private schools that inspired Catcher in The Rye and A Separate Peace for a lot of reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Good point. I wonder if we're going to see how JJ is handling the work load at the school as balanced with his training...it'll be interesting if HW calls in Brad and Robbie to tell them that JJ might be better suited elsewhere. I don't think JJ's a dumb kid, but he doesn't strike me as all that concerned with anything else but skating. It wouldn't surprise me if his grades weren't good. Norway does seem like a good opportunity for us to get to know JJ better...I wonder if we're going to cover how JJ deals with school(and if he's actually doing well) on that trip. I was thinking about how Mark is depicting Will's friendships vs. how he depicted Brad's friendships as a teenager...here's a quote from Tim in the archived Be Rad thread that made me think about something... So yeah, not sure if I like Brad or not. The last couple of chapters of Be Rad he turned around a little, but the lack of respect he had for people before that and how he treated people really pissed me off. I found him spoiled, self centered, hypocritical and down right mean. The thought that I have, and the main difference that I'm seeing...it seemed like Teenaged Brad treated his friends more like they were accessories in his awesome life as the Prince of Gunn High School instead of actually treating them like friends. Brad enjoyed the power that being on the top of the popular heap of kids gave him more than he seemed to enjoy being friends with these people, and it was very much a "you're either with me or you're not" deal with Brad. Brad's popularity seemed entirely based on his good looks, preppy 80's wardrobe, and the fact that he threw gnarly parties at his mansion, rather than people actually liking him as a person. Will seems more along the line of the popular kids who were popular because they were genuinely well-liked and knew how to be a good friend. Will doesn't come off as calculating or power-hungry as Brad was...sure, Will wants to be seen as the cool guy, but he doesn't make friends with people purely as a power move to maintain some top power position in the social hierarchy of Harvard-Westlake. I really like the difference here. Edited June 3, 2012 by methodwriter85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I really enjoyed the talks between Will and Stef. They are both on the top of my favorite character lists. Why was Will so nasty to Hot Jeff? Every one gets an off day, even Hot Jeff, what he said wasn't that bad although I don't understand why? Unless he was just unhappy about the Wade situation and took it out on Will. Will's behaviour with Jeff reminds me of how irrationally hot-headed Brad was in Be Rad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centexhairysub Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Well, I think the biggest issue wasn't that Hot Jeff was a little rude to Will, it was the blow to Will's ego. Will was obviously doing a little light flirting and Hot Jeff shot him down with extreme prejudice. Few things in life are as delicate as the male ego, and it is ever so much more fragile during the teen years. Will's reaction was more about the blow to the ego then Jeff being rude, at least I think it was... Can we start just calling him, Jeff??? And are we ever going to get to the real reason that he has an issue with Matt??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Well, I think the biggest issue wasn't that Hot Jeff was a little rude to Will, it was the blow to Will's ego. Will was obviously doing a little light flirting and Hot Jeff shot him down with extreme prejudice. Few things in life are as delicate as the male ego, and it is ever so much more fragile during the teen years. Will's reaction was more about the blow to the ego then Jeff being rude, at least I think it was... Can we start just calling him, Jeff??? And are we ever going to get to the real reason that he has an issue with Matt??? That's a perfect way to put it. Hot Jeff is having a bad day, and is in a mood to piss someone off, so he picks Will, and hits him at one of his tenderest spots. One of Jeff's poorer decisions, if you ask me. As for his issues with Matt....all in good time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ85 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 A bad day?? Ever since Jeff was handed the reality that he can't just have Wade like he wants, every day is a bad day for him. Probably just about anyone could have swapped places with Will and flirted and been met with the moody bitch attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) So we finally meet Mary Ellen. God, I'm getting Bitty flashbacks. I kind of wondered though...wouldn't a politician's daughter know how to fake being nice in order to get people to love her, a la Kathryn in Cruel Intentions or Regina George in Mean Girl's? I'm kind of surprised that it seems like she doesn't have a group of people who worship her. Teenaged girls who want to be popular and adored are incredibly good at making it seem like they're nice while being complete bitches. No one in college is ever that openly bitchy. Edited June 6, 2012 by methodwriter85 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ85 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 She'll always have good old Mommy dearest to fall back on, up until the day either one of them dies - probably even past that point, in fact. So...what's the point in having even a shred of niceness if you're a, erm...girl, who neither wants nor even needs it, at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddydavek Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The latest chapter certainly holds your interest and the ending was splendidly portrayed. Poor Wade has a very demanding family dynamic to deal with and it certainly makes sense that he put the whole country between him and his family. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centexhairysub Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Well, I swear sugar pie, I just saw all of this coming.... I so agree that Mary Ellen is like the evil Kathryn from Cruel Intentions, everyone is fooled except those that know her best. I thought that the dynamic between Wade and JP was great and I loved the give and take. It is nice to see someone that really is on the same wave length as JP. Plus, Matt was just perfect in how he helped Wade focus on what was really important. I do think the plan that Wade and JP came up with, will pay dividends in the end. I am a little perturbed at Father Tim, I know you want those that are out front to be some kind of saint but sadly and rarely do those that make a real difference in the world fall into that category. You have to take the bad with the good and just suck it up sometimes... I thought that Wade handled his mother and sister perfectly. You could tell that they were both completely thrown off balance by his behaviour. They both seemed to believe that he would be so overcome with guilt that he would just easily fall into their clutches. I can't wait to see how they regroup and how Wade contends with their next attack. I was really glad to see how excited Beau was in seeing Wade. I think even though they are far apart in distance, they still really care about each other. You can tell that neither Beau nor the Senator really has any idea of what all Elizabeth and Mary Ellen have been up to. I sort of see Wade as a General Anthony McAuliffe being surrounded by Elizabeth and Mary Ellen and just saying "Nuts!".... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 There is a reason the Pedro Zamora Youth HIV Clinic is the Pedro Zamora Youth HIV Clinic and not the John Holmes Youth HIV Clinic. Pedro Zamora was a sympathetic character for most people, John Holmes was not. You think it may not matter, but when you are walking a fine line for support and funding you have to balance considerations. I just liked seeing JP and Beau back in the story. Maybe Beau will narrate one day? Even if a separate story, I just love the boy's prep boarding school stories! Ah love is in bloom at Phillips Exeter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) There is a reason the Pedro Zamora Youth HIV Clinic is the Pedro Zamora Youth HIV Clinic and not the John Holmes Youth HIV Clinic. Pedro Zamora was a sympathetic character for most people, John Holmes was not. You think it may not matter, but when you are walking a fine line for support and funding you have to balance considerations. I had to agree with that. Nobody's perfect, but you would think Wade would understand why Tim is having reservations. It's not just Tim being puritanical. Especially since at this point in time, there's a lot of growing concern about circuit parties and meth use fueling a resurgence in HIV infections. Not that porn star automatically equals HIV status, but still, people are going to think about it. I just liked seeing JP and Beau back in the story. Maybe Beau will narrate one day? Even if a separate story, I just love the boy's prep boarding school stories! Ah love is in bloom at Phillips Exeter Beau's straight. I can't see Mark trying to pull off a story with a straight narrator. People couldn't even handle a non-gay narrator with a legitimate female love interest with Gathan. Edited June 6, 2012 by methodwriter85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Being straight never adversely affected the level of same sex hijinks at elite prep schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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