Paternity

[centexhairysub]

The next chapter is up and another great one...

 

I mentioned in my review but am going to make the point here as well; I think that Will loves and cares deeply for Robbie.  The problem is that Will is the kind of person that is decisive in his actions, but only after looking at the issue from several angles.  Robbie, at least in his personal life, makes most of his decisions on an emotional level or is at least heavily influenced by his emotions in making the decisions.  It is much harder to back down from a decision made on an emotional level.  Will just doesn't understand why Robbie can't see how is actions are playing out, and Robbie can't understand how Will can be so disconnected.  Neither Will nor Robbie is really fully accurate in their perceptions of the others actions; the problem is that neither can really put themselves in the others place. 

 

I don't think that Robbie and Brad are going to implode over this issue.  As, I have stated before, they have dealt with much more serious issues that didn't break them up, and I can't see this growing to that point. 

 

I thought it was great that Will and Alistair had some time together.  It was nothing more than heavy petting really but just seemed to fresh and nice.  I can't see anything ever really developing between the two, but it would be nice if they could be friends with maybe a few benefits along the way.  I think that Alistair would be really good for Will.

 

It was nice seeing Brad and Will getting back on a more even keel.  I do think they are so much a like that they will always have some friction in their lives; you really can't put to Alpha males together and not expect a dog fight ever so often.  I think a few observations from JP would be nice with him viewing Will and remembering how Brad was at that age...

[Mark Arbour]

 

I see Tony as gay, but the kind of gay that can still get it up for a woman. Because Tony can have sex with and enjoy a woman, he can lie to himself about not being gay, but he won't be fully emotionally and physically satisfied with a woman. Unfortunately, he's the type who just can't see himself having and raising a family with a guy, which is why he won't get serious about dating a guy. I have an online friend who was a lot like that- he enjoyed women, but there was a deep physical and emotional need he had to be lying in the arms of another man in the morning after. It took him a long time to come out- he wasn't out until he was 26. I think Tony will be similiar. I wonder if he'll be like my friend and try joining the military to prove to himself that he's not gay. That is a very common and sad story.

 

I do like the contrast- Will(and my) generation is really that first generation of guys where you could say that they didn't need to come out because they were never in a closet to begin with. I'm not saying Will has become the rule, but it's becoming much more common, and I think the fact that gay families and gay marriages have become an option and something that current twentysomethings have grown up with really has done a lot to de-stigmatize being gay. I've talked with an author here...he's from Dallas like Adam Phillips is, but he has a hard time understanding Andy's struggle with his gay side in Cross-Currents because it just wasn't that big of a deal. And this guy is only about nine years younger than Adam is, but you can kind of even see a generation gap there. Even though people complain about how slow the progress is on gay marriage...the progress in terms of how the teenagers and twentysomethings act in regards to gay people is pretty fucking astounding. I mean, in 1992, a 15-year old gay kid couldn't have even concieved that one day he could get married to a guy. Twenty years later, a 15-year old gay kid has that option in a decent amount of states, and can see himself as not missing out on all that much because he's gay.

 

 

 

 

You actually have a contrast here between the two types that you outlined in the second paragraph above.  You have Tony, who represents a classic closet case, a guy who is gay, but doesn't want to be.  Add to his psyche the shit with his father, and he's got some serious issues to work through.  Will, on the other hand, is the vanguard of "the new gay guy" who didn't live in the uber-oppressive atmosphere, and can be openly gay and quite comfortable with that.  I would suspect that many of the older guys in here (like me) can relate to Tony and his challenges, while younger guys will see Will's attitude as being relatively normal.  

 

 

 

 

I gotta admit, I like Tony and I get why Will is so attracted to him, but I also don't really see them as a match. Even when they're 26 and 30, and Tony has finally become okay with being gay, there's something about Tony that tells me that they wouldn't be a good match. I think it's because my gut about Tony tells me that he's a guy who believes in the status quo and upholding tradition, while Will is very much about challenging the status quo and forging new traditions and modes of acting. I mean, can you honestly see Tony as he's being written now going off with Will to help save the marine life in Louisiana when the oil spill happens in '10? Tony strikes me as someone who is set for a very conventional life in a white-collar 9-to-5, even if he does wind up married to a guy. That's not to say he can't change, but that's how I'm reading Tony as a character.

 

I think it's really hard to predict what Tony will be like in 12 years, even tougher than it is to picture Will at that age.  He has a lot of personal growth and evolution to go through.  If he stays in the closet, I think he can end up as you described.  If not, I can see him eschewing his traditional views.  

 

 

 

 

High School Brad, I think, would have done that. Brad as he is now basically has done stuff like that. Will wouldn't do something like that- I think that's where there's a major difference between Brad and Will. Brad, at times, will treat people like his chess pieces to move around. Will doesn't treat people like that.

 

Possibly.  I like your description, of Brad moving people around like chess pieces.  You're right.  Will doesn't do that at all.  He isn't that nuanced.  He tends to charge right at the problem.  

 

 

 

The next chapter is up and another great one...

 

I mentioned in my review but am going to make the point here as well; I think that Will loves and cares deeply for Robbie.  The problem is that Will is the kind of person that is decisive in his actions, but only after looking at the issue from several angles.  Robbie, at least in his personal life, makes most of his decisions on an emotional level or is at least heavily influenced by his emotions in making the decisions.  It is much harder to back down from a decision made on an emotional level.  Will just doesn't understand why Robbie can't see how is actions are playing out, and Robbie can't understand how Will can be so disconnected.  Neither Will nor Robbie is really fully accurate in their perceptions of the others actions; the problem is that neither can really put themselves in the others place. 

 

 

 

I agree.  i think that Robbie is very important to Will, but WIll doesn't suffer fools lightly, and Robbie is definitely acting like a fool, at least in his eyes.  Will tends to be impulsive, something that may fade as he matures more, but Robbie is emotional, as you have noted.  It makes for a volatile mix, and not a whole lot of real listening.  

 

 

 

I don't think that Robbie and Brad are going to implode over this issue.  As, I have stated before, they have dealt with much more serious issues that didn't break them up, and I can't see this growing to that point. 

 

True, but I don't think they'll be able to escape from this problem without some damage to their relationship.  You can't fight a pitched battle on opposite sides of the battle lines and recover like nothing happened.  

 

 

 

 

It was nice seeing Brad and Will getting back on a more even keel.  I do think they are so much a like that they will always have some friction in their lives; you really can't put to Alpha males together and not expect a dog fight ever so often.  I think a few observations from JP would be nice with him viewing Will and remembering how Brad was at that age...

 

I think you're right about the friction between Brad and Will, and that's been the case with JP and Brad as well.  Brad has come a long way with Will, and is learning that each kid is different, and all of his pre-conceived notions about how to handle them are just so much bullshit.  Stuff that worked for Darius won't work for Will, and his approach to JJ will need to be decidedly different than how he deals with either Darius or Will.  JJ probably needs a more conventional approach.  He's the kid who will probably do what he's supposed to do, and will actually put up with lines like "because I said so."  He almost has to, because of his sport and how he's been trained to subordinate himself to a coach.  

[MJ85]

I wonder if JJ would benefit from being sent off to live with relatives not in California. CA isn't the only place with figure skating coaches, and I get the feeling that if JJ got a chance to start over new where no one knew him as the middle-child overshadowed by Will and Darius, he'd do really well. He'd be forced to learn how to socialize with people without his mother and I guess now Robbie, which would make him grow up. As it is right now, JJ's stuck being the angry middle child who doesn't get enough attention. I wonder if there are any good boarding schools on the East Coast or mid-West that are close to Olympic-level figure skating clubs...

 

You may be right about this, but I get the vibe that it'd be all too easy for JJ to completely "disappear" from the CAP universe if this happens. That said, about the only way I could imagine JJ willingly wanting to have this kind of separation is if Jeanine had already done an "Exit, Stage Left" - and if that happened, would he even want to be reminded of any relatives, no matter how distant?

 

I see Tony as gay, but the kind of gay that can still get it up for a woman. Because Tony can have sex with and enjoy a woman, he can lie to himself about not being gay, but he won't be fully emotionally and physically satisfied with a woman. Unfortunately, he's the type who just can't see himself having and raising a family with a guy, which is why he won't get serious about dating a guy. I have an online friend who was a lot like that- he enjoyed women, but there was a deep physical and emotional need he had to be lying in the arms of another man in the morning after. It took him a long time to come out- he wasn't out until he was 26. I think Tony will be similiar. I wonder if he'll be like my friend and try joining the military to prove to himself that he's not gay. That is a very common and sad story.

 

Who says Tony has to be absolutely gay? I get the vibe that he has more of a "fluid" sexuality, and can be with either men or women as he prefers. While it may not be "widely acceptable" quite yet in 2000/2001 like it is now, the only vibe I get that he'd be totally totally gay is from people's wishful thinking.

 

I gotta admit, I like Tony and I get why Will is so attracted to him, but I also don't really see them as a match. Even when they're 26 and 30, and Tony has finally become okay with being gay, there's something about Tony that tells me that they wouldn't be a good match. I think it's because my gut about Tony tells me that he's a guy who believes in the status quo and upholding tradition, while Will is very much about challenging the status quo and forging new traditions and modes of acting. I mean, can you honestly see Tony as he's being written now going off with Will to help save the marine life in Louisiana when the oil spill happens in '10? Tony strikes me as someone who is set for a very conventional life in a white-collar 9-to-5, even if he does wind up married to a guy. That's not to say he can't change, but that's how I'm reading Tony as a character.

 

Along those very same "challenging the status quo" lines, who says Will even has to settle down, or settle down with one partner?

 

P.S. Let me just say that I'm not a fan of the new "quoting" system. Before, I could still quote people on the forums when I had to use mobile-net. Now, I'll hit the "quote" button, and when it takes me to the posting window, I get a blank window instead of the person's quoted post. So annoying...

[MJ85]

I thought it was great that Will and Alistair had some time together.  It was nothing more than heavy petting really but just seemed to fresh and nice.  I can't see anything ever really developing between the two, but it would be nice if they could be friends with maybe a few benefits along the way.  I think that Alistair would be really good for Will.

 

I don't see this going very far or for very long at all. Alistair's still at the same pre-puberty stage that JJ is, and I feel like it's only so long before either Will tires of hooking up with him in much the same way that he did in this chapter, or Alistair tires of Will pushing him to hook up.

 

That said, it's probably better in the long run if this ends sooner rather than later - there's something about hooking up with Alistair that makes me think that Will is treading on very dangerous (legal!) waters there... Just as a "for instance" - all it takes is JJ finding out somehow, toss in a little vindictiveness, and...there you go.

Edited December 19, 2012 by MJ85

[Westie]

You may be right about this, but I get the vibe that it'd be all too easy for JJ to completely "disappear" from the CAP universe if this happens. That said, about the only way I could imagine JJ willingly wanting to have this kind of separation is if Jeanine had already done an "Exit, Stage Left" - and if that happened, would he even want to be reminded of any relatives, no matter how distant?

 

Would it be such a bad thing?  I think its important to have characters disappear.  I think it was incredibly important for Billy to exit the series (and important that it was so final).  Its been so long since we had a death of a mainstream character.  I don't necessarily think it should be JJ, but he is a "prime candidate" for a that kind of exit.

[MJ85]

With the way people have been calling this another "potential Billy"...if he were to make a long-term exit in any fashion anytime soon, then his exit would serve largely as a Billy re-hash. And I'm not convinced that that's a good thing.

 

If it happens another time, then...whatever, but now......?

[Mark Arbour]

Would it be such a bad thing?  I think its important to have characters disappear.  I think it was incredibly important for Billy to exit the series (and important that it was so final).  Its been so long since we had a death of a mainstream character.  I don't necessarily think it should be JJ, but he is a "prime candidate" for a that kind of exit.

 

Good point.  Sometimes characters serve their purpose, and then it's time for them to vanish into the woodwork for a while.   They don't necessarily have to die.  

 

With the way people have been calling this another "potential Billy"...if he were to make a long-term exit in any fashion anytime soon, then his exit would serve largely as a Billy re-hash. And I'm not convinced that that's a good thing.

 

If it happens another time, then...whatever, but now......?

 

I agree that it's important not to repeat the past exactly.  That being said, things are rarely the same.  For example, Sharon longs to have JJ run over with a bus.  I think she visualizes the bus slamming into him, knocking him down, then accidentally running over him, then, as the driver freaks out, backing up and running over him again.  I've never done that before. 

 

Who says Tony has to be absolutely gay? I get the vibe that he has more of a "fluid" sexuality, and can be with either men or women as he prefers. While it may not be "widely acceptable" quite yet in 2000/2001 like it is now, the only vibe I get that he'd be totally totally gay is from people's wishful thinking.

 

 

Along those very same "challenging the status quo" lines, who says Will even has to settle down, or settle down with one partner?

 

Tony doesn't have to be absolutely gay.  I think that the fluid sexuality you describe can work for someone like Gathan, or even Ryan (who's just horny), but I think Tony is gayer than that.  

 

And Will is certainly capable of challenging any social more.  

[MJ85]

I agree that it's important not to repeat the past exactly.  That being said, things are rarely the same.  For example, Sharon longs to have JJ run over with a bus.  I think she visualizes the bus slamming into him, knocking him down, then accidentally running over him, then, as the driver freaks out, backing up and running over him again.  I've never done that before. 

 

LOL...he'd still die! :P

 

Tony doesn't have to be absolutely gay.  I think that the fluid sexuality you describe can work for someone like Gathan, or even Ryan (who's just horny), but I think Tony is gayer than that. 

 

Ryan is probably just as you said - just horny, while Gathan I feel like is a little more bisexual, but leaning toward the "straight" side. It's Tony that I don't really get a clear "read" on. I guess that would make him bisexual too by default, but somehow that feels like the wrong way to describe him.

[sat8997]

First time for everything!

I agree that it's important not to repeat the past exactly.  That being said, things are rarely the same.  For example, Sharon longs to have JJ run over with a bus.  I think she visualizes the bus slamming into him, knocking him down, then accidentally running over him, then, as the driver freaks out, backing up and running over him again.  I've never done that before. 

 

*Ugh! The quote function has gone whackadoodle. I can never tell where I'm typing.

[sat8997]

I gotta admit, I like Tony and I get why Will is so attracted to him, but I also don't really see them as a match. Even when they're 26 and 30, and Tony has finally become okay with being gay, there's something about Tony that tells me that they wouldn't be a good match. I think it's because my gut about Tony tells me that he's a guy who believes in the status quo and upholding tradition, while Will is very much about challenging the status quo and forging new traditions and modes of acting. I mean, can you honestly see Tony as he's being written now going off with Will to help save the marine life in Louisiana when the oil spill happens in '10? Tony strikes me as someone who is set for a very conventional life in a white-collar 9-to-5, even if he does wind up married to a guy. That's not to say he can't change, but that's how I'm reading Tony as a character.

 

I think it's really hard to predict what Tony will be like in 12 years, even tougher than it is to picture Will at that age. He has a lot of personal growth and evolution to go through. If he stays in the closet, I think he can end up as you described. If not, I can see him eschewing his traditional views.

 

 

 

Jeremy's hypothetical character plotlines are leaking again.

[MJ85]

Another alternative of course is that, assuming Will does eventually settle down, that it'll be with a guy who we don't even know about yet.

[GLH]

In spite of how evil the simpering little bitch is, where JJ is concerned, there's been too many kids met their untimely demise of late.

Edited December 20, 2012 by GLH

[methodwriter85]

I think it's really hard to predict what Tony will be like in 12 years, even tougher than it is to picture Will at that age.  He has a lot of personal growth and evolution to go through.  If he stays in the closet, I think he can end up as you described.  If not, I can see him eschewing his traditional views.  

 

See, the thing is though, I think Tony could stay that way even if he comes out of the closet. There are some very traditional-minded gay people around, and Tony strikes me as someone who'd wind up a gay conservative like Private Tim and the like. I mean, that's not to say I'm right, but that's how I'm reading Tony as a character. Tony strikes me as a white picket fence with 2.5 kids in the suburbs kind of guy, even if he does get married to a guy, and I can't see that for Will. For Darius, for yes, but not for Will.

 

Possibly.  I like your description, of Brad moving people around like chess pieces.  You're right.  Will doesn't do that at all.  He isn't that nuanced.  He tends to charge right at the problem.  

Yeah, I like that Will is allowed to be different and not a total rehash of Brad's old storylines with a younger model. I absolutely detest it when t.v. shows rip off old plotlines and rehash them with younger models. Glee this season basically has set up a re-hash of Rachel, Puck, and Finn with their new characters, and it's really obvious and tacky.

 

As for the openly gay thing...I started coming out when I was 14. By 15, I had made my gay friends. I'm able to relate to the idea of not announcing to everyone in the room that you're gay, but I can't relate to self-denial. I never had a period in my life where I tried dating girls to prove to myself that I'm not gay, because on some level I liked being gay. I liked being gay because it made me different, and I grew up in an environment that encouraged everyone to stand out and be different.

 

As for Westie's bit...I don't know. See, wouldn't it be kind of easy for Mark to kill off the character that no one really cares about and isn't all that closely tied to the family canvas? What made Jeff's death in 1968 so stong and powerful was because of the fact that so many people cared about and loved him...Mark STILL gets hate mail over that. If you kill someone like JJ off, wouldn't that be kind of a shrug moment? It'd be more shocking and important to kill off a character who doesn't seem like they're primed for an exit, because they'e well-loved and cared for.

   

[centexhairysub]

Would it be such a bad thing?  I think its important to have characters disappear.  I think it was incredibly important for Billy to exit the series (and important that it was so final).  Its been so long since we had a death of a mainstream character.  I don't necessarily think it should be JJ, but he is a "prime candidate" for a that kind of exit.

 

As for Westie's bit...I don't know. See, wouldn't it be kind of easy for Mark to kill off the character that no one really cares about and isn't all that closely tied to the family canvas? What made Jeff's death in 1968 so stong and powerful was because of the fact that so many people cared about and loved him...Mark STILL gets hate mail over that. If you kill someone like JJ off, wouldn't that be kind of a shrug moment? It'd be more shocking and important to kill off a character who doesn't seem like they're primed for an exit, because they'e well-loved and cared for.

   

 

I want to say first of all that I am not advocating for JJ's death...  That being said however, I don't think it would have to be a rehash of Billy's death, even if they died at or about the same age.  I have been saying for some time that I believe there is something going on with JJ besides the obvious; maybe something even Mark doesn't know about yet, LOL.....  You could have JJ die or even do himself in and then find out about what was really going on with him.  There has been an issue of bullying with him in the past, maybe it has gotten worse or his is being abused by someone, a coach or official in the skating world.  His death could either go ahead and push Jeanine over the edge or spur her to get better.  She could become a champion of anti-bullying or the mother that brings needed attention to the abuse problem in the sport.  This could open a whole new line of intrest.  I have never hated JJ or felt really negative toward him, I do find his actions in this story very annoying but....  For me, he will always be the happy go lucky child that he was introduced as; I just want to know what is beneath the surface that is causing his recent behaviour... 

[PrivateTim]

Who says Tony has to be absolutely gay? I get the vibe that he has more of a "fluid" sexuality, and can be with either men or women as he prefers. While it may not be "widely acceptable" quite yet in 2000/2001 like it is now, the only vibe I get that he'd be totally totally gay is from people's wishful thinking.

 

I don't get the impression that Tony is ambigious or bi-sexual. My impression is that Tony is gay, not comfortable with it and it working hard to being "normal". I don't that he is comfortable with his sexuality the same way that Gathan is.

 

I don't see this going very far or for very long at all. Alistair's still at the same pre-puberty stage that JJ is, and I feel like it's only so long before either Will tires of hooking up with him in much the same way that he did in this chapter, or Alistair tires of Will pushing him to hook up.

 

That said, it's probably better in the long run if this ends sooner rather than later - there's something about hooking up with Alistair that makes me think that Will is treading on very dangerous (legal!) waters there... Just as a "for instance" - all it takes is JJ finding out somehow, toss in a little vindictiveness, and...there you go.

 

Alistair is not in pre-puberty, he is just not as developed as Will, but not far behind a lot of 14 year olds.

 

And given that Will and Alistair are both 14 or thereabouts, how is the any legal issue?

[MJ85]

Because California's age of consent is 18, and CA's "close-in-age" portion of the law WOULD NOT provide either an exception or a defense in their case - it instead would lower the act to a misdemeanor. That is how.

 

Actually, both Will and Alistair can be held liable.

[methodwriter85]

You're telling a Californian attorney about CA statutory rape laws. Tread carefully there. I know our Private Tim's just a sweetheart, but even puppies can have some major bite behind the bark.

 

Although seriously, some of these laws are just crazy. Something needs to be changed if you can put a 17-year old girl on a sex offender list for sexting pictures of her breasts to her boyfriend. Situations like that are clearly not what the laws set up protecting kids fom child pedators were made for.

[Westie]

I want to say first of all that I am not advocating for JJ's death...  That being said however, I don't think it would have to be a rehash of Billy's death, even if they died at or about the same age.  I have been saying for some time that I believe there is something going on with JJ besides the obvious; maybe something even Mark doesn't know about yet, LOL.....  You could have JJ die or even do himself in and then find out about what was really going on with him.  There has been an issue of bullying with him in the past, maybe it has gotten worse or his is being abused by someone, a coach or official in the skating world.  His death could either go ahead and push Jeanine over the edge or spur her to get better.  She could become a champion of anti-bullying or the mother that brings needed attention to the abuse problem in the sport.  This could open a whole new line of intrest.  I have never hated JJ or felt really negative toward him, I do find his actions in this story very annoying but....  For me, he will always be the happy go lucky child that he was introduced as; I just want to know what is beneath the surface that is causing his recent behaviour... 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating death.... though Sharon's bus idea has merit... I would also like to see a storyline for "Who shot JR?"  "Who shot JJ".  But seriously, there is a huge cast of characters now with CAP, and I for one would not be sorry to see a large clear out of some of them.  I already suspect that Jeanine is going to be less prominent, and with that JJ also.  Going back to my thoughts on more "mature" voice as narrator, I would also see the teenage characters playing less of a main role until they are slightly older.

 

But thats just me.

[rjo]

Very interesting idea. The only mature character that I can think of is JP. It would be good to get his view point in this story. We have not heard from him in a very long time.

 

As for your other point, the death of JJ. I again disagree. Over the years I have lost almost all my family there is not a day I wish they were still alive. JJ has turned out to be a pain in you know where. Jeanine is almost beyond help and Robbie. well is being Robbie.  We forget that JJ was once that happy joyful child. Without Jeanine we would not have Mandy or Will. Some would be happy about that. Even though Robbie can be stubborn he is also one of the kindness, generious and loving persons around. None of these characters are perfect. That is what makes them seem so real. If they weren't we would not care about them so deeply.

Edited December 21, 2012 by rjo

[MJ85]

You're telling a Californian attorney about CA statutory rape laws. Tread carefully there. I know our Private Tim's just a sweetheart, but even puppies can have some major bite behind the bark.

 

California Penal Code, Sections 261-269.

 

Even with all of Will's sexcapades, though, I don't imagine that this will ever actually come up. Not unless...not unless it's a scenario like I suggested above:

 

Just as a "for instance" - all it takes is JJ finding out somehow, toss in a little vindictiveness, and...there you go.

[B1ue]

California Penal Code, Sections 261-269.

 

Even with all of Will's sexcapades, though, I don't imagine that this will ever actually come up. Not unless...not unless it's a scenario like I suggested above:

So, at most, he's guilty of a misdemeanor? And not just Will, but Alastair too?

 

Yeah...I can see that being pursued real hard.

 

JJ losing his shit, THAT is almost a given. But he's going to have to convince Alastair to feel a lot more torn up about it than a typical fourteen-year-old.

 

Edit: Something to keep in mind is that, due to a quirk in CA school system, Will is one of the youngest children in his grade, and JJ is one of the oldest. It's become common practice (and now codified policy) to let kids born late in the year, like WiIl is, to be held back a year in kindergarten, but that evidently didn't happen in his case. Which means Alastair is probably older than Will too, and the onus of responsibility would probably fall on him, ridiculous as that seems.

Edited December 21, 2012 by B1ue

[methodwriter85]

Edit: Something to keep in mind is that, due to a quirk in CA school system, Will is one of the youngest children in his grade, and JJ is one of the oldest. It's become common practice (and now codified policy) to let kids born late in the year, like WiIl is, to be held back a year in kindergarten, but that evidently didn't happen in his case. Which means Alastair is probably older than Will too, and the onus of responsibility would probably fall on him, ridiculous as that seems.

 

    Well, they would've started kindergarten in 1991, which is long before any of that became common. I had an online friend who was born, I believe, around November 1985. She started her school years in California, with the class of 2003. In third grade, her parents moved to Michigan, and the Michigan public school system tried to place her in second grade because of her age, despite the fact that she had already gone through second grade in California. Her parents won, of course, but the fact that they had to fight at all was pretty ridiculous.

 

      It's funny when you think though that in most other states, JJ would be in the class of 2004 and Will would be in the class of 2005, but the Cali school system made it so that they had to be in the same grade. Which seems to be part of what's causing all of the tension between them. I think if they hadn't been in the same grade there'd be less tension and less of JJ feeling like Will steals the spotlight wherever he goes.

 

    Anyway, I liked how that scene played out, with Will realizing on some level that Alistair just isn't ready to go all the way yet. I remember that age- you did have guys like Ryan and Will who were totally sexually experienced, but that was often because they were physically mature. Guys who aren't physically mature, like Alistair and JJ, still giggled at holding the hand of their significant other. Not every 14-year old was having sex in high school, and it was nice to be reminded of that.

 

      In the 8th through 10th grade era, sooooo much of what happens to you is based on how mature you are, both physically and socially. There were kids like Ryan and Will that could easily hang(and nail) older people in late high school or college, and then there were the kids like Alistair and JJ, who were too immature to do that. The differences don't really level out until 11th grade/12th grade, when the late bloomers finally start to catch up.

Edited December 21, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

    Well, they would've started kindergarten in 1991, which is long before any of that became common. I had an online friend who was born, I believe, around November 1985. She started her school years in California, with the class of 2003. In third grade, her parents moved to Michigan, and the Michigan public school system tried to place her in second grade because of her age, despite the fact that she had already gone through second grade in California. Her parents won, of course, but the fact that they had to fight at all was pretty ridiculous.

 

      It's funny when you think though that in most other states, JJ would be in the class of 2004 and Will would be in the class of 2005, but the Cali school system made it so that they had to be in the same grade. Which seems to be part of what's causing all of the tension between them. I think if they hadn't been in the same grade there'd be less tension and less of JJ feeling like Will steals the spotlight wherever he goes.

I'm well aware of when Will would have started school. It depended to some extent on where you grew up. When I entered school into the LAUSAD, I was one of the oldest kids in my grade (my birthday is in February). When I moved out of there into a different district, I was towards the middle of the pack, because in that district it was common for kids who were not yet six when kindergarten ended to be held another year. And that's just public schools; I imagine private schools could make whatever policies make sense to them.

 

Edit: From what my parent's tell me, the reason for the December 2nd cut if because there used to be two cut-off dates, one for summer class and one for winter class. I'm not sure how exactly that worked, but apparently every grade was split between a Summer and a Winter class, and December 2 was one of the cuts involved. I'll have to ask them to explain it again to me.

Edited December 21, 2012 by B1ue

[JLK9N]

.... Jeanine is almost beyond help and Robbie. well is being Robbie.  We forget that JJ was once that happy joyful child. Without Jeanine we would not have mandy or Will. Some would be happy about that. Even though Robbie can be stubborn he is also one of the kindness, generious and loving person around.....

 

 

I pine for the day when Will really needs Robbie for something, and he realizes how much he's taken his second parent for granted.  And Robbie will shower Will with his kind/generous/loving nature.  Until then, I simply want the little shit (that would be Will) to get knocked down a peg or ten.

 

But that's just me.  

[MJ85]

B1ue: Seeing as the law is rather...specific, I don't expect that anyone who does pursue it would already know the full legal scope of it, until they researched it - unless of course they're already a lawyer. I remembered from reading about ages of consent among states that CA's was 18, but the rest I had forgotten about until looking it up.

 

Jeremy: That's odd that whatever school district your friend was in tried to put her back in second grade. I'm not sure when the cutoff date thing was established (nor do I remember the date for here in MI, though I think it's December 1), but you're right - that shouldn't have happened at all.