Paternity

[MJ85]

JJ really can't do that.  Jeremy has pointed out to us that JJ has to live in something of a bubble, to cut that wholesome, post-Tonya Harding image skating demands.  Emancipation would not work for him.  I can't see his skating career surviving that.  He really has more restraints on him because of that, and it gives Brad a lot more leverage over JJ than he had over Will.  To JJ, his skating career is everything.  And Brad has the ability to destroy that career.  

 

Assuming, of course, that things go that far with the skating career pursuits. What if that doesn't happen?

[Mark Arbour]

Assuming, of course, that things go that far with the skating career pursuits. What if that doesn't happen?

 

Good question.  I still don't see JJ as the rebellious type who would go to that extreme.  Part of the reason why Will was able to pull that off is because he's  mature for his age, and he's smart.  JJ may be smart (we don't really know the limits or expanse of his intellect) but he isn't mature enough to handle the process.  

 

In a strange way, he'll probably benefit from the trail Will has blazed.  Usually it's the first kid who has to push the boundaries and get the parents to come to grips with what it's really like to raise a child, but Darius pretty much worked around them.  I think Will's taken over that role.  

[MJ85]

Good question.  I still don't see JJ as the rebellious type who would go to that extreme.  Part of the reason why Will was able to pull that off is because he's  mature for his age, and he's smart.  JJ may be smart (we don't really know the limits or expanse of his intellect) but he isn't mature enough to handle the process. 

 

I agree, and actually, that's not even what I'm getting at.

 

What I am getting at is that there's been lots of talk about JJ's future skating aspirations, while in the meantime, he placed 13th at the competition earlier in the story. Granted, that was under heavy distractions, but it was still a 13th place finish nonetheless. Now...maybe there's something about the skating world that I'm not familiar with that I'm not factoring in here, but a 13th place finish there doesn't seem to showcase a future tip-of-the-top contender, now does it?

Edited January 12, 2013 by MJ85

[PrivateTim]

 but a 13th place finish there doesn't seem to showcase a future tip-of-the-top contender, now does it?

 

It does when it is an international competition of younger competitors. Just being selected to the US team speaks of the promise he shows.

[methodwriter85]

   “I’ll be there,” he said.  “I wouldn’t let JJ go to his meet in Scotland last week because his grades were bad.  So he and Robbie are both on the warpath over that.  If you’re there, they may be a little more calm.” 

 

    Just a reminder that figure skating competitions aren't referred to as meets or tournaments, as per Daisy's instructions. You can call them competitions, if you're being generic, or you can call them by what they are. What JJ missed was the ISU Junior Grand Prix Finale in Scotland, which were held December 14th to December 17th, 2000. Although Brad calling them "meets" actually kind of works because it shows that he's kind of clueless about the sport.

 

     I thought it was pretty clear that it was an abberation for JJ to do that bad at Norway. During this 2000-2001 season, JJ also got a bronze medal at the International Junior Competition in France in August and won the Southwest Pacific Regionals in October. We didn't see JJ at the Pacific Coast Sectionals on November 15th, but I'm betting he did well there, too. Remember, we've only ever actually been to like two of JJ's competitions- Southwest Pacific Regionals and the Norway Junior Grand Prix.

 

       But yeah, JJ would never file for emancipation. I think it kind of speaks to something I saw once on Behind the Music: Tiffany. Tiffany was an 80's teen pop star, kind of like a less popular version of Debbie Gibson. She filed for emancipation and it hurt her career. Why? Because you can't maintain a wholesome, happy-go-lucky teen innocent image if you're battling your parents in court. It ruined her image of being the carefree teenaged mall rat. If JJ filed for emancipation, it would ruin his image of being a happy, innocent teenager like on those Disney sitcoms.

 

       What JJ could do, but I'm not sure JP would be ever be cool with, is to take the GED and drop out of school. He's 15, so he's old enough to take it. I'm getting the feeling that as a consequence of basically letting Jeanine parent JJ without much interference from Brad or Robbie, the typical Crampton/Schluter attitude towards education wasn't exactly passed down to JJ like it was to Will. I don't get the feeling that JJ isn't smart- I think he's probably a bright person, but he's not particularly motivated to do well so he does just enough to get by without ever fully applying himself. And the more he's gotten into figure skating, the less motivated he feels to do well at school.

[B1ue]

I also got the impression that 13th was extremely out of character for JJ, and part of why Jeanine and JJ were so pissed.

 

I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that the characters ever had a strong academic tradition. JP did, but he seemed to be an anomoly for his family. Going to school was important, yes, but because that showed good class, not for it's own sake. JP took that to an extreme though. Brad, Ace, Claire, and Robbie all got into good schools, but the first three were raised by two college professors and Isiodore, and Robbie had all the reason in the world to prove he wasn't his brothers. No one in the current generation has that kind of motivation, with the exception of JJ, and he's channelling his efforts elsewhere.

[methodwriter85]

That's a good point, Blue. You are right that it seems like other than JP, education has been more about the status symbol rather than having a true love of learning. There was only one academic with Max in Brad's generation, and none of this current generation really seem like they're headed that way. Will likes learning and school, but more because That's What You're Supposed to Do, as opposed to having a real thirst for knowlege.

 

It kind of reminded me of what someone said to me once about rich families and colleges. The kids go to college because it allows their parents to put them into high positions at their family companies, rather than some idealistic love of knowledge.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when JJ decides not to go to college. Because I'm pretty sure at this point, JJ sees himself at 20 traveling the world showing off his shiny new gold medal, not going through his sophomore year of college struggling through a stats class. Would JP be okay with JJ pursuing his career instead of college, or would he threaten to disinherit him?

Edited January 15, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I think that Will approaches school pretty enthusiastically, but that probably doesn't show through in the story.  I'm sure it's hard for him to get as into it as he may otherwise, because his life tends to have a bit of drama to distract him.  

 

Something to remember is that times have changed, and a bachelor's degree in Brad's day is probably a Master's degree today.  I thought that having Brad and Robbie dabble in grad school after college and then drop out as life enveloped them was pretty  normal for my generation.  This generation has a different norm.  

 

I also don't see JJ ultimately blowing off college, but I can see him going later.  Nothing says he has to stick to a textbook life plan.  What JP et al. will point out to JJ, though, is that his time in college will probably give him valuable critical thinking skills, and help him train his mind.  That's important no matter what you do.  

[rjo]

I am not sure what Will will do for a living. With Wade as a mentor, maybe Senator or Governor are in his future. JP had a passion for French History. I am not sure if Will has that same passion. However once he finds that passion nothing will stop him. I think once Will has his own life in order, he would be great with a job that helped people, much like the job he did at the Mission. He cares about the people he helps, cares about Pat his driver, even cares about Robbie and Jeanine when thy don't seen to care about him. Maybe he could manage the Schluter Trust giving Stef's money away for good causes.

 

Then we come to JJ. I believe Mark was right JJ needs to play out his passion. My greatest fear is that JJ will crash and burn. Long ago, Jeff Hayes did that. Could the same thing happen to JJ? Once his bubble brakes what will he have? Will Will be the first person he needs to help? Will has a inner strength which I don't see in JJ. Honestly I hope I am wrong.

[PrivateTim]

I think that Will approaches school pretty enthusiastically, but that probably doesn't show through in the story.  I'm sure it's hard for him to get as into it as he may otherwise, because his life tends to have a bit of drama to distract him.  

 

Something to remember is that times have changed, and a bachelor's degree in Brad's day is probably a Master's degree today.  I thought that having Brad and Robbie dabble in grad school after college and then drop out as life enveloped them was pretty  normal for my generation.  This generation has a different norm.  

 

I also don't see JJ ultimately blowing off college, but I can see him going later.  Nothing says he has to stick to a textbook life plan.  What JP et al. will point out to JJ, though, is that his time in college will probably give him valuable critical thinking skills, and help him train his mind.  That's important no matter what you do.  

 

I think you've done a pretty good job actually at showing how academically oriented Will is, even when he was running away he made sure his school work was done.

 

I also think Brad and Robbie were pretty serious students too. You didn't get into the schools they did unless you were a serious student. It wasn't the early 60's and before when family connections could get you in a bit easier at a Princeton or Yale. By the time B&R went off to college, it was more merit based or AA based.

 

Just because we haven't seen a lot of talk about their college or alumni lives in CAP doesn't mean that Robbie and Brad are not still connected. LA has very strong alumni groups from all the Ivy colleges. The mere fact that the boys went to H-W over the other elite prep schools like Crossroads or Brentwood says that Brad and Robbie take the academics seriously. It would have been much easier to send them to the closer, more "progressive" schools over traditionalist H-W, but they didn't.

 

They also live in the virtual shadow of Pepperdine University ( http://goo.gl/maps/BkbEy ) and it would be hard to ignore the university and its heavy influence in that area, especially as close as they are.

 

Darius had the grades to get into a service academy and dummies don't get in there and Santa Clara is no slouch university either so obviously he did some studying along the way too.

 

As to JJ, there is a lot of down time at skating competitions and a lot of the younger skaters used that time to study. Michelle Kwan, who was the queen of JJ's era was very academically oriented and that kind of atmosphere filters down and sets the tone.

[methodwriter85]

This generation has a different norm.  

 

Yeah. I feel like anybody I know who went to college and got a degree are at least thinking about graduate school, if they didn't already do it. I mean, even nursing and elementary school teachers want masters now. The only people I know who were able to pretty much go straight into having a good job with just their bachelor degree were like accountants and engineers.

 

As for JJ, I think his graduation year- 2004- nicely sets him up to be able to do his freshman year of college, for 2004-2005. He'd probably take off for his sophomore year to concentrate on the 2006 Olympics. I think he'd probably do a lot of summer sessions, and I think JJ would probably pick a college that has a well-known and well-regarded figure skating program affliated with it, because it would be a culture that would understand how to deal with his abscences. My guess would be he graduates in 2009 or 2010. Which is actually very "of the times"- like grad school, it's starting to become normal for people to go through college in 5 years or more.

 

Darius had the grades to get into a service academy and dummies don't get in there and Santa Clara is no slouch university either so obviously he did some studying along the way too.

 

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you here. But didn't Darius also make it pretty clear that the only reason he was even being considered for Anapolis was because his rich granddaddies tried to pull some strings for him? As in Darius's grades were maybe just barely tolerable for him to get in, and he wouldn't have if he were just from a normal family? And didn't Darius mention to Will that his grades at Santa Clara aren't all that good, either?

 

 

As to JJ, there is a lot of down time at skating competitions and a lot of the younger skaters used that time to study. Michelle Kwan, who was the queen of JJ's era was very academically oriented and that kind of atmosphere filters down and sets the tone.

 

But don't we also know that JJ's grades are bad which is why he's being punished and not allowed to go to the Junior Grand Prix Final in Scotland? And I'm not sure JJ's looking up to Michelle Kwan. I think his likely idols are probably Evengi Plushenko and Alexei Yagudin. This was the era of Russian Male Figure Skating dominance, I believe.

 

I wonder if that's the reason why Johnny Weir began to believe he was Russian.

 

 

[Mark Arbour]

I think you've done a pretty good job actually at showing how academically oriented Will is, even when he was running away he made sure his school work was done.

 

I also think Brad and Robbie were pretty serious students too. You didn't get into the schools they did unless you were a serious student. It wasn't the early 60's and before when family connections could get you in a bit easier at a Princeton or Yale. By the time B&R went off to college, it was more merit based or AA based.

 

Just because we haven't seen a lot of talk about their college or alumni lives in CAP doesn't mean that Robbie and Brad are not still connected. LA has very strong alumni groups from all the Ivy colleges. The mere fact that the boys went to H-W over the other elite prep schools like Crossroads or Brentwood says that Brad and Robbie take the academics seriously. It would have been much easier to send them to the closer, more "progressive" schools over traditionalist H-W, but they didn't.

 

They also live in the virtual shadow of Pepperdine University ( http://goo.gl/maps/BkbEy ) and it would be hard to ignore the university and its heavy influence in that area, especially as close as they are.

 

Darius had the grades to get into a service academy and dummies don't get in there and Santa Clara is no slouch university either so obviously he did some studying along the way too.

 

As to JJ, there is a lot of down time at skating competitions and a lot of the younger skaters used that time to study. Michelle Kwan, who was the queen of JJ's era was very academically oriented and that kind of atmosphere filters down and sets the tone.

 

What he said.  

[GLH]

Robbie needs to remove his anterior from his posterior and take a few breaths before he succumbs to asphyxiation.  I can't help feel that JJ is rapidly circling the drain.  There seriously needs to be a professional intervention take place before he winds up as bat s#!t as Jeanine, or dead.

Edited January 17, 2013 by GLH

[mmike1969]

Lets all pretend for a moment and think we are all either skating divas or a high level movie producer:

 

Round Table Pizza sucks compared to whom?

 

Yeah sorry but I really can not think of a better pizza place that actually delivers. Most local mom/pop's pizza joints do not deliver.

 

Thanks Mark for the latest chapter!

[PrivateTim]

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you here. But didn't Darius also make it pretty clear that the only reason he was even being considered for Anapolis was because his rich granddaddies tried to pull some strings for him? As in Darius's grades were maybe just barely tolerable for him to get in, and he wouldn't have if he were just from a normal family? And didn't Darius mention to Will that his grades at Santa Clara aren't all that good, either?

 

But don't we also know that JJ's grades are bad which is why he's being punished and not allowed to go to the Junior Grand Prix Final in Scotland? And I'm not sure JJ's looking up to Michelle Kwan. I think his likely idols are probably Evengi Plushenko and Alexei Yagudin. This was the era of Russian Male Figure Skating dominance, I believe.

 

I wonder if that's the reason why Johnny Weir began to believe he was Russian.

 

The "bare minimum" to get into the US Naval Academy would be 3.4 or thereabouts, The Naval Academy or any academy isn't like a regular college that lets in marginal academic students, the curriculum is so heavily science and math based they can’t afford the marginal students. The kids that drop out of the academies are not dropping out because of the academic load usually but the military routine and discipline is too much.

 

Trust me, when you are a US skater and you are involved at the national level and you travel on national teams, a dominating presence like Michelle Kwan would be who all the younger US skaters looked up to. JJ might have admired the Russian skaters, but when you are wrapped in the cacoon of USFSA it is flag waving and "USA, USA". Johnny Weir tried to buck the organization and it bit him in the ass a couple of times.

[PrivateTim]

Lets all pretend for a moment and think we are all either skating divas or a high level movie producer:

 

Round Table Pizza sucks compared to whom?

 

Yeah sorry but I really can not think of a better pizza place that actually delivers. Most local mom/pop's pizza joints do not deliver.

 

Thanks Mark for the latest chapter!

 

D'Amore's Pizza.....  or Johnny's NY Pizza and screw the pizza at Johnny's, just send me 10 orders of garlic knots.

[Mark Arbour]

D'Amore's Pizza.....  or Johnny's NY Pizza and screw the pizza at Johnny's, just send me 10 orders of garlic knots.

 

When I wrote that line in about Round Table, I was wondering how the Californians out there would react.  I figured you would scoff at some plebian chain and propose something much more trendy,   but I'm not sure I'd put D'Amore's in the 'trendy' category. 

 

I like Round Table. 

[centexhairysub]

Tim is right, you have to have major grades or scores to get into any of the service academies.  I had a kid that I was counseling get into one either eight or nine years ago and he had a 3.7+ gpa and really worried that it wouldn't be enough.  I don't care how much pull your family has, you aren't getting into any of them without the grades...

 

I really think that Will maybe the one to save JJ; I think a major crisis is coming with him and I am not sure anyone else is going to be able to help him in the end.  From personal experience, you may hate your siblings but in the end you will always try and protect them from the outside world.

 

I thought is was really telling that Will viewed Alistair as the one person from H/W that he was really going to miss.

 

Great job setting up the last few chapters Mark...  Can't wait to see what happens.

[Westie]

I think mark may have given is a clue in the last chapter... I think JJ's new coach may be part of the problem??

[methodwriter85]

Trust me, when you are a US skater and you are involved at the national level and you travel on national teams, a dominating presence like Michelle Kwan would be who all the younger US skaters looked up to. JJ might have admired the Russian skaters, but when you are wrapped in the cacoon of USFSA it is flag waving and "USA, USA". Johnny Weir tried to buck the organization and it bit him in the ass a couple of times.

 

Except it's already being said that JJ's grades are bad, and if they're bad, then that probably suggests that he hasn't soaked up the Michelle Kwan mode of being academically diligent. I've consulted with Daisy on this, and she said the mindset of the time period was actually pretty split- yes, you had the Michelle Kwans of the world. But you also had a fair amount of people who would totally backburner school in order to pursue this, and JJ seems to have fallen into the latter category.

 

From Mark in reviews:

 

 

You're probably right about H-W intervening, but then again, just because they intervene doesn't mean JJ's going to change. I see him as a passive aggressive kid. You know, where they have a big meeting, lay out all these plans for him to be more successful, while JJ sits there, seemingly nodding in agreement.  The meeting ends, and he doesn't give a shit and ignores all the resolutions.  Rinse, repeat.  

 

Okay, this is where I go with the whole "JJ parallels my life" deal. I bombed out my freshman year of high school. I somehow managed to flunk or get a D in computer applications, gym, and Algebra. My grades were really bad, and I kept getting pulled into conferences about how to do better. I would nod my head, then go straight back into slacking off. It wasn't until 11th grade, when my slacker friends had gotten kicked out of school and I had discovered a love of history due to history camp that I started trying more. I think if someone find a hook with a him- a subject that he loves- he'd have more motivaton to do well in school. But for now, his concentration is on this stuff.

 

As for Darius, the real naval service academy probably would haven't accepted him, but in the story, and for story purposes, they did. Which is where Darius decided to give up the spot because he realized it could go to someone more deserving.

 

There was one moment in chapter 86 that I really liked- Will having this little moment where he realizes that barring Ryan, most of his current high school friendships are pretty shallow. I think what Will doesn't realize yet is that he tends to make friends with guys on the basis of how hard they make his dick, instead of what their personalities are like,  and because of that he's setting himself up for shallow relationships. I had something similiar freshman year of college where I tended towards trying to make friends with guys I liked looking at, rather than guys I actually had stuff in common with. When you make friends with people for superficial reasons, you tend to get back pretty superficial friends.

 

Have you noticed that his best friendships right now- his friendship with Wade and with Tiffany- are friendships were sex isn't really part of the equation?

     

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2013 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

When I wrote that line in about Round Table, I was wondering how the Californians out there would react.  I figured you would scoff at some plebian chain and propose something much more trendy,   but I'm not sure I'd put D'Amore's in the 'trendy' category. 

 

I like Round Table. 

 

I like Round Table too, but there just ain't any in the Bu.

 

People forget how isolated the Colony is. The Colony is popular with the glitterati precisely because it is isolated.

 

Oh and despite the fact that I do like Round Table (King Arthur Supreme WITH anchovies) I'd never choose it over Johnny's.....  but maybe over D'Amore's.

[MJ85]

There was one moment in chapter 86 that I really liked- Will having this little moment where he realizes that barring Ryan, most of his current high school friendships are pretty shallow.

 

From the chapter:

 

        “Dude, it’s going to suck without you around next year,” Ryan said at lunch.  I’d gone out to the fire road to eat with my friends on this, my last day at Harvard-Westlake. 

        “I’ll miss you guys,” I said, lying just as he’d done.  This was all so much bullshit.  They didn’t really want me around, and I really didn’t want to be around.  Now we were just going through the motions so we could all still say we were friends.  I got up to go and gave Morgan and Shiloh brief hugs, and fist-bumped the guys.

 

Unless I'm reading this wrong, he's put Ryan into that category now too. Or at least, he's in the category of people that he's not going to bother keeping an active friendship with (whereas with Alistair, he likely will try to keep it going).

[B1ue]

I like Round Table too, but there just ain't any in the Bu.

 

People forget how isolated the Colony is. The Colony is popular with the glitterati precisely because it is isolated.

 

Oh and despite the fact that I do like Round Table (King Arthur Supreme WITH anchovies) I'd never choose it over Johnny's.....  but maybe over D'Amore's.

 

And damn if I know anything about pizza in that area. Santa Barbara, sure. I liked Woody's, and they delivered on campus. But as to the rest of California, yo no se. I'm technically a hick. The only pizza place in my town as a teenager was a family owned restaurant that all of my immediate family everyone except my father worked for at some point or another, though not all at the same time. 

[Mark Arbour]

I like Round Table too, but there just ain't any in the Bu.

 

People forget how isolated the Colony is. The Colony is popular with the glitterati precisely because it is isolated.

 

Oh and despite the fact that I do like Round Table (King Arthur Supreme WITH anchovies) I'd never choose it over Johnny's.....  but maybe over D'Amore's.

 

 

Excellent point about Malibu.  Had some friends I stayed with down there way back when I was in college, and felt like I was kind of on an island.  But I figured for the right price, the kid from Encino will drive it down to Malibu.  I'm a purist:  Pepperoni and extra cheese.  

 

From the chapter:

 

 

 

Unless I'm reading this wrong, he's put Ryan into that category now too. Or at least, he's in the category of people that he's not going to bother keeping an active friendship with (whereas with Alistair, he likely will try to keep it going).

 

These are teenage friendships.  I think that Will is being negative about Ryan because he's actually hurt that Ryan blew him off.  He's smart enough to know that bitching about it won't get you anywhere (see: unsatisfactory Tuesday hanging out), but it has to bug him when Ryan doesn't really want to hang out with him anymore.  And quite frankly, I think Will has a valid bitch.  The question is whether that's a fixed situation, or whether he and Ryan will end up as closer friends after he breaks up (or gets sick of) Shiloh.  

[PrivateTim]

 Santa Barbara, sure. I liked Woody's,

 

Oh yeah, I have no doubt you like woodies in college at UCSB......