Question: Aspergers and CT shooting

[hh5]

Sorry to find out about the shooting; 60 min said that initial reports was totally incorrect

 

They clarified that the 20yo had Aspergers and the mother has a gun hobby

He's home schooled since he's having social problems in school

 

The 20yo shot the mother and went to an elementary school and done the violence

 

60 min reports there is no link between Aspergers and violence ...

that people with aspergers are usually victims rather than perpetrators 

 

They also said generally the pattern to plot violence is known months before it would occur

 

Good question is if the mother did keep her guns safely locked; perhaps the 20yo knew how to gain access

 

my brother says the gun loving people tend to not keep their guns safely locked ... thus we get these violent occurance happening

 

 

The weird thing to hear LOCKDOWN ... one thinks gates are automatically closing by the press of a button

in reality its the doors of each class room and every part of the building are being locked up manually

it doesn't sound like that's enough to stop gunman from shooting the lock off

it sounds like its a petty solution to not have security at every school

 

we would assume the police will quickly respond

 

this occurance is in a small town ... perhaps looking at the signs of this to happen ...

no one saw it coming

 

I wonder if any one saw the signs before the mall shooting during Dark Knight Rises release

 

the responses from any gov official doesn't seem to prevent the columbine type violence from happening

 

 

Can any one explain why aspergers is not violent? or

why CT is possibly a rare case compared to the mall shooting?

 

Edited December 17, 2012 by hh5

[JamesSavik]

Aspergers is defined as an "autism spectrum disorder".

 

Apparently it is one of several forms of autism.

 

From what I understand, Aspergers varies greatly in degree of how profoundly it effects individuals. Some are easy to spot but many individuals that have it are high functioning. In the past, some weren't diagnosed for many years but diagnosis criteria have improved.

 

What really characterizes Asperger syndrome is severe difficulty with interpersonal relationships.

 

Some Aspergers sufferers can't read facial expressions or emotional states in other people. 

 

This guy is a professional surfer with Aspergers:

 

Edited December 17, 2012 by jamessavik

[hh5]

@james thanks for the reply 

that seems to concur with the 20yo having severe interpersonal problems in high school

but it doesn't explain why he shot up an elementary school

 

can people with aspergers plot revenge or violence?

Edited December 17, 2012 by hh5

[MikeL]

 

 

Edited December 17, 2012 by MikeL

[MikeL]

 

we would assume the police will quickly respond

 

I think police do respond quickly and in large numbers to such an event.  Unfortunately, once they arrive, they take a considerable amount of time for planning and procedures.  They establish a perimeter which succeeds only in allowing the shooter(s) to roam free within the perimeter and in preventing potential victims from escaping.  They wait for the SWAT team to arrive.  In most cities, the SWAT team doesn't arrive all at once in a big van.  Most SWAT officers are busy with routine patrol duty on the other side of town or out in the county.  They may be off duty.  They have to drive individually to the scene of the incident, find out where their assembly point is, and get all their equipment together.

 

At Columbine, the shooters killed ten people in the school library and took their own lives after police arrived.  They were dead for several hours before SWAT team members entered the library.  One teacher who was shot lay wounded for three hours before the SWAT officers reached him.  How many who might be alive today bled to death?  See Denver Post article.

 

Police respond quickly, but they may act very deliberately.

 

The recent Oregon mall shooting was different.  Police responded quickly and entered the mall (in pairs) immediately.  The shooter committed suicide early in the incident leaving only three victims behind (one survived).

 

Police departments across the US are changing their tactics as a result of Columbine.

[Dark]

There's no prediction of crazy.  Asperger's is not a reason for why this guy shot children. 

 

There are still multiple definitions of Asperger's.  It is even less understood than Autism and there is quite a lot of debate over whether or not Asperger's is on the Autism spectrum or completely separate.  People with Asperger's are typically easy-going and non-violent.  It's like living in a country where you don't speak the language; you nod and smile a lot and hope understanding will come eventually.  They can sometimes tell that they've made a social blunder (usually minutes or days after the event) but they have a hard time figuring out why and even if they figure it out, they still don't understand why the other person was upset.

 

Right now, people are grasping at straws.  There's no connection with Asperger's or Autism regarding violence.  It is wrong on so many levels to make wild generalizations like that.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Dark

[hh5]

First question, do you have a lot of experience in working with people with aspergers?

If not, you could be making generalizations too.

 

The police and doctors will be looking into case very closely

but of course they don't want the public to panic about people with aspergers.

 

In 60min, the police said they will be examining this case for years to come.

Its going to take time to examine about what events truly happen.

 

Coming up with the right questions and theories will be very hard.

 

The press will be interested to inform the public as its news worthy to keep them in business

 

There's no prediction of crazy.  Asperger's is not a reason for why this guy shot children. 

 

There are still multiple definitions of Asperger's.  It is even less understood than Autism and there is quite a lot of debate over whether or not Asperger's is on the Autism spectrum or completely separate.  People with Asperger's are typically easy-going and non-violent.  It's like living in a country where you don't speak the language; you nod and smile a lot and hope understanding will come eventually.  They can sometimes tell that they've made a social blunder (usually minutes or days after the event) but they have a hard time figuring out why and even if they figure it out, they still don't understand why the other person was upset.

 

Right now, people are grasping at straws.  There's no connection with Asperger's or Autism regarding violence.  It is wrong on so many levels to make wild generalizations like that.

 

 

The public will be commenting left and right ... making harsh comments ... ranging from all kinds of emotional response to the crime in the face of keeping their own children safe. we can not stop them ... we can just hope people don't take the wrong actions with people with disabilities

 

This is the price we all pay in free speech ... we all have to get use to this attitude of the public

 

 

It can be a source of questions to ask ... and we can only provide the best answers to understand the generalities and the specifics of the case

 

People will definitely question gun control. They will theorized that the mother didn't safe keep her guns well. They will also say bad things about the mother without understanding that she was very giving of herself to the public and cared for her child greatly,

 

People will think that maybe someone convinced the 20yo to do this crime?

etc

 

Here is a different case

 

Illinois Police Shoot Teen With Asperger’s in His Home

 

15-year-old Stephon Watts was shot by police on Wednesday and later pronounced dead. Stephon was diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome at the age of nine. According to the Chicago Tribune, Calumet City police had been summoned ten times to his family’s residence in less than two years, to “subdue” the teenager using tasers.

 

The Chicago Tribune gives this account.

 

On Wednesday, officers were called again to the teen’s home, where two officers found Watts in his basement wielding a kitchen knife. Watts “lashed out” with the knife and struck one of the officers in the forearm, said police Chief Edward Gilmore.

 

“At that time, cornered and having no way to retreat back up the stairs, the officers fired one shot each, striking the (boy) twice,” Gilmore said. “Unfortunately, the officer thought that his life was in jeopardy.”

 

Watts’s parents questioned the police for firing at their son, as they had not previously done so. Danelene Powell-Watts said “They didn’t have to murder him. This is nothing but murder.” Watts’s father, Steven Watts, witnessed the police shooting at his son and asked:

 

“They’re trained to disarm people. Why did they have to use deadly force on a 15-year-old autistic kid?”

 

While Steven Watts said that his son was shot in the leg and then, on moving, shot in the head, Gilmore says that he was “not being told” about this and was waiting for the coroner’s report.

 

On Wednesday morning, Stephon said that he did not want to go to school; his father took away his computer and put it in the basement of their home. The teen reportedly “tussled” with his father, who followed instructions that doctors and social workers had given the family to contact police when their son became agitated. These instructions were why police had made a number of previous visits to the Watts’ house; their address was “flagged” in the police’s system as a residence having “an autistic young man there who is very strong and likes to fight with the police,” says Gilmore. Indeed, all 84 Calumet City police officers had undergone training about dealing with autistic individuals and the lead officer who responded to the call had been at the Watts’s home before.

 

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/illinois-police-shoot-teen-with-aspergers.html#ixzz2FKDWcFqL

 

It shows that agitation is a problem element ... there can be cases where the teen is too much to be handled ... it could be the result of poor care ,,, by the doctor, social workers, police, and the parents ... right things with negative outcomes

 

for the CT 20 yo ... we don't know how he took to his peers or other people who may have tormented him during the years. we don't know the history of his care ... but we will learn more as the media probes in this towns lives about the family

 

We should realize that what will be examined by the experts is what is atypical but the public is cautioned in the typical ... not to take extreme actions. lol, to not impede an investigation,

 

so in months or years ... a doco will explain everything ... and possibly what we discuss here will be clarified later

Edited December 17, 2012 by hh5

[hh5]

@mikeL thanks for the reply

 

i think that word "deliberately" explains the actions of the illinois police case I've shared above

 

I think police do respond quickly and in large numbers to such an event.  Unfortunately, once they arrive, they take a considerable amount of time for planning and procedures.  They establish a perimeter which succeeds only in allowing the shooter(s) to roam free within the perimeter and in preventing potential victims from escaping.  They wait for the SWAT team to arrive.  In most cities, the SWAT team doesn't arrive all at once in a big van.  Most SWAT officers are busy with routine patrol duty on the other side of town or out in the county.  They may be off duty.  They have to drive individually to the scene of the incident, find out where their assembly point is, and get all their equipment together.

 

At Columbine, the shooters killed ten people in the school library and took their own lives after police arrived.  They were dead for several hours before SWAT team members entered the library.  One teacher who was shot lay wounded for three hours before the SWAT officers reached him.  How many who might be alive today bled to death?  See Denver Post article.

 

Police respond quickly, but they may act very deliberately.

 

The recent Oregon mall shooting was different.  Police responded quickly and entered the mall (in pairs) immediately.  The shooter committed suicide early in the incident leaving only three victims behind (one survived).

 

Police departments across the US are changing their tactics as a result of Columbine.

Edited December 17, 2012 by hh5

[hh5]

This is a share from someone who has an 11yo autistic son

 

Planned, social violence is not a feature of autism. Indeed, autistic people are far more likely to have violence done against them than to do violence to others. No one knows as of this writing what drove the Connecticut shooter to kill 20 children and 7 adults, point blank, although obvious candidates are rage, hate, a huge grudge against humanity and some triggering event. But if he turns out to have been someone on the spectrum, I'd like to remind everyone that autism is not an explanatory factor in his actions. And that autistic people like my son are fully, fully capable of empathizing with those who were the target of them.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/autism-empathy-connecticut-shooting_n_2314769.html

 

We still need to hear from someone who has a teen who's a handful to handle ... whats ATypical ... what society needs to educate everyone about prevention in every way

[MikeL]

i think that word "deliberately" explains the actions of the illinois police case I've shared above

 

 

I used the word "deliberately" in the sense of being slow and careful, not in the other sense of doing something intentionally.

[hh5]

the police is sort of free to take normal to delicate action depending upon their judgement call that may not always agree with the public

its not intentional sometimes ... but the public forces the police to do an internal investigation

I presume the intentional you mean in terms of doing something wrong in the situation that has consequences with public relations

I used the word "deliberately" in the sense of being slow and careful, not in the other sense of doing something intentionally.

 

A good question is what if the CT shooter was misdiagnosed with his autism ... that he had a mix of issues ,, since the sense of many people say its unlike for an aspergers to act in this way.

[Graeme]

I've had some experience with Aspergers after getting involved in an online project with someone with the condition. As a result, I did a fair amount of research into the topic.

 

James pretty much summarised the main points. However, it should be emphasised that while someone with Asperger's can have trouble with inter-personal skills, that does not mean that they lack empathy. Indeed, they can be quite empathetic - they just lack the ability to accurately read the emotions of others (NOTE: That's a generalisation - Aspergers is part of the Autism Spectrum Disorder, and that means there's a spectrum. Some people with Asperger's are quite capable of reading the emotions of others).

 

From a neurological point of view, it has been suggested (and partially confirmed via brain scans) that Autism Spectrum Disorders (including Aspergers) involves an impaired flight-or-fight mechanism. As it was explained to me, most people realise that they're getting aggravated, and will take action to remove the irritant that is annoying them. People with ASD don't always realise what's going on, which result the in the classic "off-on" situation where they go straight from apparently calm to extremely angry (and potentially violent, just like the rest of us would do if we are pushed too far). So people with ASD can certainly be violent, but if you want to blame the condition, you can only do so for spontaneous violence, not pre-planned. Pre-planned violence is the same for someone with ASD as for someone who isn't (colloquially, those without ASD are known as neurotypical, or NT for short, again emphasising that ASD is a neurological condition).

 

I hope this helps.

[Cia]

Good question is if the mother did keep her guns safely locked; perhaps the 20yo knew how to gain access

 

my brother says the gun loving people tend to not keep their guns safely locked ... thus we get these violent occurance happening

 

 

You speak in generalizations, and I find this one quite rude and misinformed. You do realize there are all types of people out there and saying statements like this, or your comments regarding Asperbergers, are ridiculous. A person who suffers from a mental condition (sorry-corrected due to improper designation and terminology) does not automatically lash out in violence. Additionally, out of the incredibly large group of gun owners few actually commit these types of crimes. Those who wish to hurt others with a weapon WILL find a way to do so. I grew up with unlocked guns and  I never shot anyone unprovoked or decided to go on a killing spree. Neither did anyone else in my family. Or my husband's family. Access to legally owned guns  is not the be all and end all factor in a killer deciding to kill. How many people are stabbed to death? Should we lock up knives too? Should a parent have to hide the keys to the weapon they keep for hunting, or protection, from their child who is AN ADULT? Stop and think about what you say, or repeat, before you post it next time.

[hh5]

@Graeme - Thanks, it helps.

 

Yeah, people will blame something. But, understanding these things is another story.

 

I rather look into what happen and understand the various issues.

 

I've had some experience with Aspergers after getting involved in an online project with someone with the condition. As a result, I did a fair amount of research into the topic.

 

James pretty much summarised the main points. However, it should be emphasised that while someone with Asperger's can have trouble with inter-personal skills, that does not mean that they lack empathy. Indeed, they can be quite empathetic - they just lack the ability to accurately read the emotions of others (NOTE: That's a generalisation - Aspergers is part of the Autism Spectrum Disorder, and that means there's a spectrum. Some people with Asperger's are quite capable of reading the emotions of others).

 

From a neurological point of view, it has been suggested (and partially confirmed via brain scans) that Autism Spectrum Disorders (including Aspergers) involves an impaired flight-or-fight mechanism. As it was explained to me, most people realise that they're getting aggravated, and will take action to remove the irritant that is annoying them. People with ASD don't always realise what's going on, which result the in the classic "off-on" situation where they go straight from apparently calm to extremely angry (and potentially violent, just like the rest of us would do if we are pushed too far). So people with ASD can certainly be violent, but if you want to blame the condition, you can only do so for spontaneous violence, not pre-planned. Pre-planned violence is the same for someone with ASD as for someone who isn't (colloquially, those without ASD are known as neurotypical, or NT for short, again emphasising that ASD is a neurological condition).

 

I hope this helps.

[hh5]

it didn't happen to your family

 

but it did happen to this family and the 27 

its a matter of keeping temptation out of the equation 

luck can run out and it did with this family

 

the 20yo is not a normal adult ... people knew he was a danger to himself ... but the surprise he was a danger to others

Did they know he had access to guns?

 

if you read the chicago case the 15yo picked up a knife and got shot for it

 

how you wish to keep weapons in your household is your own responsibility

but when the day god forbids someone uses the weapons that belongs to you irresponsibly that should have been secured ...

then you will think differently

 

the mother of the 20 yo ... doesn't have that choice ... she's dead with a few bullet holes .. she was the first to go

 

You speak in generalizations, and I find this one quite rude and misinformed. You do realize there are all types of people out there and saying statements like this, or your comments regarding Asperbergers, are ridiculous. A person who suffers from a mental disease does not automatically lash out in violence. Additionally, out of the incredibly large group of gun owners few actually commit these types of crimes. Those who wish to hurt others with a weapon WILL find a way to do so. I grew up with unlocked guns and  I never shot anyone unprovoked or decided to go on a killing spree. Neither did anyone else in my family. Or my husband's family. Access to legally owned guns  is not the be all and end all factor in a killer deciding to kill. How many people are stabbed to death? Should we lock up knives too?Should a parent have to hide the keys to the weapon they keep for hunting, or protection, from their child who is AN ADULT? Stop and think about what you say, or repeat, before you post it next time.

 

Nancy Lanza, Mother Of Adam Lanza, Taught Son To Shoot: Reports

 

Dan Holmes worked as a landscaper for the Lanza family, he told the New York Daily News. Holmes recounted that Adam Lanza's mother, Nancy Lanza, collected guns and enjoyed taking her children target shooting.

 

"The whole family would go together," Holmes told the paper.

 

 

Connecticut school shooting: Adam Lanza was assigned psychologist

 

The boy who would grow up to be America's deadliest school gunman caught the attention of Newtown High School members of staff, while teachers, counsellors and security officers helped monitor him, said Richard Novia, the director of security at Newtown School District at the time in 2007.

He wasn't feared to be a danger to others, however. Staff were instead concerned that he could be bullied or harmed by others or could harm himself.

"At that point in his life, he posed no threat to anyone else. We were worried about him being the victim or that he could hurt himself," Mr Novia told the Wall Street Journal.

 

Lanza mother "taught him to respect guns."

 

 

So you taught your family to respect guns and so did Nancy Lanza who taught her family too.

 

The difference is quite clear ... temptation won ... bang bang bang bang by her son

 

A non-zero statistic is enough to outrage the nation ... even Harry Reid

Harry Reid Open To Gun Control Debate After Sandy Hook Shooting

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid

 (D-Nev.) signaled Monday that gun control laws would be up for debate after the horror at Sandy Hook Elementary School, making him 

the highest-ranking pro-gun politician in the nation to hint that his mind may be changing

.

 

"I believe part of that healing process will require Congress to examine what can be done to prevent more tragedies like the ones in Newtown, Conn.; Aurora, Colo.; Oak Creek, Wis.; and Portland, Ore.," Reid said, referring to other recent mass slayings.

Edited December 17, 2012 by hh5

[hh5]

FoxNews details of the events of last friday

 

There was enough magazines to shoot at least 100 bullets.

 

On Friday morning, Lanza shot his mother, Nancy Lanza, four times in the head, authorities said.

He then drove to the school in her car with four guns, including a shotgun that was left in the back of the vehicle, and shot up two classrooms around 9:30 a.m., police say. Police added that multiple 30-round magazines and hundreds of bullets were also found at the scene.

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/16/at-least-26-dead-in-shooting-at-connecticut-school/#ixzz2FLtdgsxK

 

The gunman's father released a statement on Saturday. 

 

"Our hearts go out to the families and friends who lost loved ones and to all those who were injured," Peter Lanza said. "Our family is grieving along with all those who have been affected by this enormous tragedy. No words can truly express how heartbroken we are. We are in a state of disbelief and trying to find whatever answers we can. We too are asking why. We have cooperated fully with law enforcement and will continue to do so. Like so many of you, we are saddened, but struggling to make sense of what has transpired."

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/16/at-least-26-dead-in-shooting-at-connecticut-school/#ixzz2FLtH3POk

 

 

Victims List

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/15/officials-release-names-victims-in-connecticut-elementary-school-shooting/

 

 

Pre-massacre info

Suspect in massacre tried to buy rifle days before, sources say

 

Adam Lanza, the suspect in the suburban Connecticut elementary school shooting rampage, tried to purchase a "long gun" rifle from a local shop but was turned away because he did not want to wait for the required 14-day background check, law enforcement sources said Saturday.

Edited December 17, 2012 by hh5

[Zachary McGinness]

Asperger's syndrome dropped from psychiatrists' handbook the DSM

DSM-5, latest revision of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, merges Asperger's with autism and widens dyslexia category...

[hh5]

thanks for the info

Asperger's syndrome dropped from psychiatrists' handbook the DSM

DSM-5, latest revision of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, merges Asperger's with autism and widens dyslexia category...

[Graeme]

A non-zero statistic is enough to outrage the nation ... even Harry Reid

 

Politics will NOT be discussed in this thread or any other thread at GA. Please keep politics off site or on your own personal blog. Gun control is a political topic.

[NotNoNever]

DSMV has not been released yet, and Aspergers will not be dropped from it. Instead the entire ASD area is being reorganised into three easier to work with categories. That will include the elements which characterised Aspergers as well as some of the lesser difficulties in what will become moderate autism. The higher functioning, like Aspergers and Rhetts, and even some of the PDDNOS traits wil all be congregated under the mild autism category.

 

Autism, especially Asperger level high functioning autism, is not a disease. It is a condition, in many ways similar to homosexuality. It's just who you are.

 

The trouble here is that some autism, just like other conditions, can have other conditions present as well. So it is entirely possible that he had some other type of mental health condition which caused the switch.

 

In relation to empathy, I feel it would be better to clarify Graeme's point. In fact almost all autistic people have trouble with empathy. Empathy is not sympathy. Empathy, in this context, is the ability to read body language and other non verbal cues. That is not something that many autists can do. Added to that, when an Aspie knows you have a problem, they will go out of their way, if they can, to help you. That's the sympathy part. They also have a very pronounced sense of justice, which is one of the reasons there needs to be great care associating this case with autism or Aspergers. Personally, I think it's probably somewhat contributory, but actually minor in relation to some other mental health issue.

 

As for criticisms of the police, well it's a well established principle that you protect the unendangered first and the endangered second. When there's shooting going on in a building, you have absolutely no idea what you're dealing with. Hustling in could set of booby traps which will kill many more people - I think this was the case with the Chinese (?) school shooting a few years back. Also, what is the point in sending in a few relatively untrained, but well intended, officers. They might well end up killing people too, or getting killed themselves. Collateral damage blue on blue causes enough if an outcry when peope are being freed from kidnappers in the middle east. Imagine what would happen to an ordinary plod if he took out a couple of kids by accident. I do understand what MikeL was getting at, and I tend to agree, especially with the evidence he gives. But it is a very complicated thing.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Graeme

[NotNoNever]

Politics will NOT be discussed in this thread or any other thread at GA. Please keep politics off site or on your own personal blog. Gun control is a political topic.

Oops, ths post went up as I was writing mine. If I have erred, please let me know, and I'll edit. I think I kept within the parameters of Cia's comments, which should make it OK ... I hope

[Graeme]

DSMV has not been released yet, and Aspergers will not be dropped from it. Instead the entire ASD area is being reorganised into three easier to work with categories. That will include the elements which characterised Aspergers as well as some of the lesser difficulties in what will become moderate autism. The higher functioning, like Aspergers and Rhetts, and even some of the PDDNOS traits wil all be congregated under the mild autism category.

Thanks for that. I read the report recently about the changes, but I wasn't sure if they had been confirmed. I do know that there were proposed changes to bring the various items into a single ASD category from a diagnostic point of view.

Autism, especially Asperger level high functioning autism, is not a disease. It is a condition, in many ways similar to homosexuality. It's just who you are.

Absolutely! The best description I've heard is that the brain is wired differently. Not wrongly - just differently.

In relation to empathy, I feel it would be better to clarify Graeme's point. In fact almost all autistic people have trouble with empathy. Empathy is not sympathy. Empathy, in this context, is the ability to read body language and other non verbal cues. That is not something that many autists can do. Added to that, when an Aspie knows you have a problem, they will go out of their way, if they can, to help you. That's the sympathy part. They also have a very pronounced sense of justice, which is one of the reasons there needs to be great care associating this case with autism or Aspergers. Personally, I think it's probably somewhat contributory, but actually minor in relation to some other mental health issue.

Thanks for the clarification - you've explained it better than I did

[hh5]

@NotNoNever

I'm confused about what u said about empathy ... isn't empathy the ability to understand how ones action would affect others.

 

Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.

 

are indicating like "visual empathy" ... like if an aspie saw a person upset for missing the bus ... the aspie would not be able to figure out about the visual emotion ... and connect that with the bus leaving the bus stop ... I know this is a poor example ...

 

In relation to empathy, I feel it would be better to clarify Graeme's point. In fact almost all autistic people have trouble with empathy. Empathy is not sympathy. Empathy, in this context, is the ability to read body language and other non verbal cues. That is not something that many autists can do. Added to that, when an Aspie knows you have a problem, they will go out of their way, if they can, to help you. That's the sympathy part. They also have a very pronounced sense of justice, which is one of the reasons there needs to be great care associating this case with autism or Aspergers. Personally, I think it's probably somewhat contributory, but actually minor in relation to some other mental health issue.

 

Thanks for your agreement to graeme insight to a possible other issue ... its only a theory since there is no real hard evidence to back it up ... the many articles now available seems to share possible contributory issues ...

* 2009 divorce 

* quitting college at age 16

* interest in the unspeakable hobby

* dropping of other hobbies

 

certainly more investigation will uncovered things like motives, what signs to look for, what happen in the months prior to this event.

Edited December 18, 2012 by hh5

[Graeme]

hh5, the confusion lies in that we often use the word "empathy" to both represent sensing the emotions of others, and also sharing the emotions of others. NotNoNever split these into Empathy (sensing) and Sympathy (sharing). People with an ASD tend to have a deficiency in the former, but are generally 'average' with the latter.

 

Also, a deficiency doesn't necessarily mean that they can't sense other's emotions - they can, instead, have trouble identifying the correct emotion. eg. They may misinterpret grief for anger, because there's an overlap in how people express those two emotions, and they don't pick up enough of the non-visual clues to isolate one from the other.

 

I'm not explaining things well, but hopefully it's enough to make it clear that if you're talking pre-meditated violence, Asperger's is highly unlikely to be the reason.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Graeme

[Gene Splicer PHD]

I have been diagnosed as a very low-grade, high-functioning "aspie". It's not evident to people around me and in fact over the last couple of years - with some work - has pretty much stopped affecting me like it used to. It takes a lot of practice and I have to be very attentive to people and what they are saying, and then compare that to what their body language is telling me. I do have good friends who will also "fill in the gaps" if they think I'm misreading something someone is saying or doing.

When I am tired or inattentive, I miss social cues, like when someone is angry or upset. I also can completely misunderstand why people are upset or even happy. I have trouble reading people's moods, and that can also lead to misunderstandings. When I get in situations where this causes problems, I get very stressed and nervous, which makes it worse. This happens when I don't know what to do to fix it, usually. Long ago, I would hold this in and then pop off at people or situations, and really overreact in some extreme ways. Rage was common, so was isolating and being an insufferable ass. Nowadays, it means I need to take five and regroup away from the situation for a while.

 

I don't know where this kid sat with his diagnosis or treatment, and I'm sure I'm not anywhere near the level of extreme stress or antisocial behavior that consumed this guy. Still, I don't think that Aspergers is the issue here. It doesn't fit. Aspergers doesn't make you murder people. It makes you confused and mad - mostly at yourself. i think there have to be other factors aside from AS here.

 

I don't think we will ever know what went on in this kids world to make him go off like he did. The whole thing is just sad and rotten.