9.11

[Daddydavek]

The interesting thing to all this is that Will has given the car to Zach and now that he has it, I don't think it will be taken away unless he screws up which as a kid he may do.  But if he doesn't and acts responsibly, then it is a win for him.   I mentioned before that I think from the clues Mark has dropped that Zach has made a conscious decision to be better and to do better.  I wish him success.  

[methodwriter85]

    That's my take, too. Do they really think Zach is going to go on late night burn rides* with his friends or something? He's a guy, living with a host family, in a strange town, without any people that are inclined to give him slack.  Zach's a star running back, but this isn't Claremont so he's not the Hometown Hero, and if he messes up there are other guys they can recruit. Zach's a sociopath that knows how to play by the rules, and as such, he's destined for major success. Probably as a CEO of a major corporation or something.

 

*Burn rides refer to when people go on drive around the backcountry roads, while smoking pot. I used to do that with my friend Steve and the guys who lived in the dorm that Steve was an R.A. for.

Edited November 28, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

    That's my take, too. Do they really think Zach is going to go on late night burn rides* with his friends or something? He's a guy, living with a host family, in a strange town, without any people that are inclined to give him slack.  Zach's a star running back, but this isn't Claremont so he's not the Hometown Hero, and if he messes up there are other guys they can recruit. Zach's a sociopath that knows how to play by the rules, and as such, he's destined for major success. Probably as a CEO of a major corporation or something.

 

*Burn rides refer to when people go on drive around the backcountry roads, while smoking pot. I used to do that with my friend Steve and the guys who lived in the dorm that Steve was an R.A. for.

 

Maybe.  But if he is a sociopath, it's probably more accurate to say he knows how to work around the rules. 

 

I think that you hit on something important here, and that is that he his now out of his element, away from his hometown.  That pulls him apart from friends who could have been a bad influence, and away from situations and routines that were causing him problems.  A lot of times, guys like him will just find new friends in the new town to screw up with, but as noted, Zach's a bright guy, and he's good at getting what he wants. 

 

So that means he'll still go on burn rides, but even though he has a car, he'll make his friends drive, just in case they get busted.

[methodwriter85]

   Nah, that wouldn't help. They'd test for everybody in the car, too. Still, the main point here is that Zach's not an idiot, and he knows that if he blows this ride, he's stuck back in Claremont working construction or signing up for the Army. I can't see him downing a 6 pack ofYuengling and going for a drive with a car packed with 4 or 5 guys.

Edited November 28, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Sammy Blue]

I don't get the whole quoting thing working on my cell, so lets hope this makes sense without it.

 

It has been said that Will is the one with control issues. This is an old topic, actually. Both of them have major cotrol issues, only for Will it is a problem when peoply try to control his life, while Brad is insecure and tries to gain as much control over others as he can.

---------

 

Is the real issue really the car and asking Wally and Clara? Okay, Will did not make the best decision. However, it's not really a biggie, is it? its not like a tatoo against the parents will. If they don't like it, they can take it away. The thing that this is actually about, is that Will decided to give Zach a chance. If Zach screws up, as said here before, then he will have major consequences.

 

Nobody else was willing to give Zach a chance. If they don't want this they can even revoke the chance Will gave him. But what I thought was good is that Will showed Zach that he was on his side.

 

I can see that Wally and Clara want best for Zach, even if they are sometimes off. As for Gathan, he is definitely NOT a fit for his responsability and I see Brad having control issues and all here. Yes, Zach did screw up, but I don't think that anyone but Will is willing to give him a chance at all. As in, forever.

 

It's not about the car, really, it could have been anything.

 

I think the others will eventually drive Zach out of their lives. If I was him, even if I screwed up, I wouldn't see much reason to have anything to do with any of them. Will is the one who might be able to change that. I'm not sure if that is a good thing ot not, Zach remaining in the picture more than some might want, but I think it is a good thing that Will gave him that chance.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[Henson]

Young guys have a way of being incredibly stupid, and yet holding to an arrogance that keeps them in a fog of absolute faith in the moral rightness of their every opinion. Guys right up into their mid twenties are self-centered, oblivious, think everything is binary good/bad, and are capable of believing they're standing in a crowded room of very smart people who are "wrong" while they, and they alone, know what is "right." Some outgrow this. Some don't, which is how we get people like Brad.

 

What I appreciate about the way Mark writes Will is that he is true to this character flaw present in just about every smart young man in the history of ever. Will is a good kid. He's also pretty true to life if you can get past the early bloomer plot device. He is interesting to the story, not because he's right all the time, but because his mistakes and learning process are pretty true to life and relateable. The reader is like an uncle orva teacher (or JP) watching him grow and cheering him on. It's obvious to me that his character is being written by someone with a very smart young man in his life, because he's able to craft a growth process for the character that feels "right" for a kid in his extraordinary circumstances.

 

There are a lot of people who dislike the immaturity that, lets face it, is there and will be there for ten more story years. Those of us who enjoy Will's story along with the older guys are enjoying that he's basically a pretty-colored lump of self-righteous but compassionate clay that we get to watch the author mold into someone who either redeems Brad, or ultimately self destructs. That's an interesting story arc, whether you think he's a brat or not.

 

And get real - of course he's a brat. He's a smart, rich, attractive, teenaged guy. He acts like it. For the folks in either "camp" of thinking he does no wrong or does only wrong, I think you're missing the point in all of your cheerleading. Let's see who he is when he's Wade's age. Or Brad's age. Bet he's a better man than his father...

[Mark Arbour]

Young guys have a way of being incredibly stupid, and yet holding to an arrogance that keeps them in a fog of absolute faith in the moral rightness of their every opinion. Guys right up into their mid twenties are self-centered, oblivious, think everything is binary good/bad, and are capable of believing they're standing in a crowded room of very smart people who are "wrong" while they, and they alone, know what is "right." Some outgrow this. Some don't, which is how we get people like Brad.

 

What I appreciate about the way Mark writes Will is that he is true to this character flaw present in just about every smart young man in the history of ever. Will is a good kid. He's also pretty true to life if you can get past the early bloomer plot device. He is interesting to the story, not because he's right all the time, but because his mistakes and learning process are pretty true to life and relateable. The reader is like an uncle orva teacher (or JP) watching him grow and cheering him on. It's obvious to me that his character is being written by someone with a very smart young man in his life, because he's able to craft a growth process for the character that feels "right" for a kid in his extraordinary circumstances.

 

There are a lot of people who dislike the immaturity that, lets face it, is there and will be there for ten more story years. Those of us who enjoy Will's story along with the older guys are enjoying that he's basically a pretty-colored lump of self-righteous but compassionate clay that we get to watch the author mold into someone who either redeems Brad, or ultimately self destructs. That's an interesting story arc, whether you think he's a brat or not.

 

And get real - of course he's a brat. He's a smart, rich, attractive, teenaged guy. He acts like it. For the folks in either "camp" of thinking he does no wrong or does only wrong, I think you're missing the point in all of your cheerleading. Let's see who he is when he's Wade's age. Or Brad's age. Bet he's a better man than his father...

 

What a great post!  I especially liked your last paragraph.

[PrivateTim]

What a great post!  I especially liked your last paragraph.

 

I loved the post too except for the last paragraph or actually the last sentence. Brad is not a bad guy or father, he is protective (which some people translate to control issues).

 

What will be interesting is when Will has teenagers (if we all live so long to read and Mark to write it). We will see if Will allows his 13 year old to do anything he wants. Like I said earlier, pay backs a bitch as Brad found out with Will after what he pulled on JP.

 

As to Zach, there is a difference between "giving him a chance" and giving him a car. Even though it seems like a long time ago that Zach was a complete asshole, it hasn't really been that long in CAP time. We are just in October of the school year so Zach doesn't even have one semester in yet at Don Bosco so we don't know how his grades are. Maybe he is capable of doing well during football season because he has to to stay eligible, but how will he be when football ends? Giving him a chance would be to evaluate him at the end of his semester (January 2002 probably) and see where he is.

 

Frankly I'd have sent Zach to Loyola High School (Los Angeles) or Bellarmine or St Ignatius (San Jose & San Francisco) because 1) the Jesuits would straighten him out and 2) he'd be close to Escorial or Malibu for the family to check up on him.

 

Again, like with Will, is isn't that I don't like Zach, I think I commented on how much I enjoyed seeing more complexity written into the character, but that Zach still has a ways to go before before I am ready to pronounce him a reformed sinner.

[Kitt]

Jimminy Cricket guys!  I take a couple days off to start the holiday cooking and it takes me an hour of reading to catch up!

 

 

First off - I hope those of you who celebrate Thanksgiving have a wonderful meal with family and friends around you.  Also to those who celebrate it a Happy Hanukkah. I hope your first night celebrations last night were all you wanted them to be.

 

 

Now - You all are missing a fairly important point regarding 16 yr old Zach being given a car.  While he might have a drivers permit at this point - he cannot get a licence until he turns 17 in the state of NJ.  The only way to have a licence at 16 ( being allowed to drive without a licensed driver with him) is to get a farm licence, and even that is restricted to farm registered vehicles between dawn and dusk and only on farm business.  So at this point having a car is a moot point. Without a licensed driver with him he can't drive it. And yes I know he can drive in Ohio, but you cannot transfer the licence to NJ.

 

Wally and Clara may not be the swiftest train on the rails, but I can completely understand why they would want him to get a licence first.

 

What ever their reasons however, we should all keep in mind that parents are human too, and as such make mistakes.  My own father disagreed so vehemently with a decision I made at the age of 20 as to go to great lengths to try and reverse it, including attempting legal action.  Many years later he apologized to me and admitted I had been right, that he had not been "acting in my best interest" as he claimed at the time, but had reacted to the fact I had made this major decision without his help.

 

People keep referring to Zach as a sociopath. Did I miss a plot twist?  The word is defined by Websters New Collegiate Dictionary as "having a psychopathic personality" and psychopathic is defined as "a mentally ill or unstable person".  When was he diagnosed as having a mental illness?  I admit it has been a long time and they were only freshman psych classes, but being a self centered brat wasn't a mental illness back then.

 

I get that Gathan and Zach have an unpleasant history.  Somehow I can't help but think that even considering placing him as trustee is a mistake, no matter how responsible he is capable of being. I cannot picture being put in that position with my brother and not have it cause problems. We think much too differently, and we have none of the bad blood Gathan and Zach have yet to get past. I think Zach has good reason to believe he will not see a penny for quite some time. Which raises my other question about the trust. If he has a $20k allowance, how is he supposed to access that money?  Are there restrictions on what he may buy and how? Do Wally and Clara have to approve every pair of jeans he wants?  $20k isn't a whole lot of money, even back in '01, and while controls are usually a good thing ( witness Gathan's excesses when he first had his trust) there is a limit as to what is reasonable.

 

As for a 16 yr old "needing" a car?  Aside from the fact he cant drive it until spring, even if NJ Transit buses were 100% on time and reliable (Ha!) it gets damn cold in NJ in Jan and Feb.  If i had a million dollar trust fund and was told to take the bus i would be pissed too! But still - even with the relatively low annual income from the trust, if he is judicious and puts money into an account he opens in a local bank no one could stop him from buying the car himself once he turns 17 - like so many of us not-rich kids did. And it isn't impossible to get good grades, play sports AND work a part time job. I never had a problem with my bosses working around my school schedule.

[B1ue]

I loved the post too except for the last paragraph or actually the last sentence. Brad is not a bad guy or father, he is protective (which some people translate to control issues).

I definitely got the sense that Brad had control issues, even back in Be Rad. I think he's protective because he has control issues, not the other way around, but that's just my reading.

 

As to Zach's inheritance, 20k was more than was taken home in a year by quite a few people I knew in 2001, including each of my parents individually. Looking at average wages for waste management employees in Ohio in 2001 (isn't the internet wonderful?), that would be about half of Wally's annual gross income pre-Robbie. So, to them, that probably did look like a fair bit of money, especially since Zach wouldn't have a lot of expenses as a scholarship kid.

 

Would the restriction to only drive past 17 apply to Zach? He's not a resident of New Jersey, no matter where he goes to school. As far as I know, going to school is specifically one way in which you cannot establish residency. I could understand him not being able to get a NJ license, but wouldn't they recognize his Ohio one?

[Daddydavek]

 

 

 

Now - You all are missing a fairly important point regarding 16 yr old Zach being given a car.  While he might have a drivers permit at this point - he cannot get a licence until he turns 17 in the state of NJ.  The only way to have a licence at 16 ( being allowed to drive without a licensed driver with him) is to get a farm licence, and even that is restricted to farm registered vehicles between dawn and dusk and only on farm business.  So at this point having a car is a moot point. Without a licensed driver with him he can't drive it. And yes I know he can drive in Ohio, but you cannot transfer the licence to NJ.

 

Wally and Clara may not be the swiftest train on the rails, but I can completely understand why they would want him to get a licence first.

 

 

 

Kitt's post got me curious.   It seems in May 2001 NJ updated it's driving rules.....

 

The info below copied from:     http://www.nj.gov/faqs/drive/index.html

What is the driving age in NJ?

In 2001, New Jersey joined 23 other states and several Canadian provinces in implementing a multi-stage driver licensing system.

 

The new system introduces driving privileges gradually to first-time drivers and applicants under 21 years, extends their practice driving time, and raises the unrestricted basic driver license age from 17 to 18 years.

 

 

[Sammy Blue]

1) What will be interesting is when Will has teenagers (if we all live so long to read and Mark to write it). We will see if Will allows his 13 year old to do anything he wants. Like I said earlier, pay backs a bitch as Brad found out with Will after what he pulled on JP.

 

2) Frankly I'd have sent Zach to Loyola High School (Los Angeles) or Bellarmine or St Ignatius (San Jose & San Francisco) because 1) the Jesuits would straighten him out and 2) he'd be close to Escorial or Malibu for the family to check up on him.

 

3) (...)but that Zach still has a ways to go before before I am ready to pronounce him a reformed sinner.

1. It will definitely be interesting, however, I am positive that he will be more understanding and less of a control-freak than Brad was, other than if some major change happens to him.

 

2. C'mon I know you hate Zach ( )but seriously? Sending a gay kid to a Jesuit school? There ought to be better options. I'm not exactly a pro on religion, but as far as I know they are Catholics. Now I do know that they are a bit more progressive than other Catholics (aren't they?), but then again I also remember hearing some pretty bad stuff, and we have to remember this is 2001, not 2013. Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the CAP family would EVER send one of the kids to a Catholic school. Other than when it comes to the mission, they are not exactly friendly when it comes to religion.

 

3. While we simply do have to agree to disagree on some issues, I can understand that. I guess I'm just a bit quicker there. However, we're yet to see if I was wrong. I might well be.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[methodwriter85]

 

Guys right up into their mid twenties are self-centered, oblivious, think everything is binary good/bad, and are capable of believing they're standing in a crowded room of very smart people who are "wrong" while they, and they alone, know what is "right."

 

     Well, my early and mid-20's thought process is basically documented both here and within the memories of members of Adam Phillips's multitude of discussion groups. I'm sure Adam, Mark, and Sharon wouldn't have ever characterized 23-year old Jeremy as "self-centered", or "oblivious", or someone who would tell an entire room of very smart people that they're all wrong while I'm completely right. Right, guys? *SILENCE*

 

      LOL. Yeah, Henson, you hit the nail on the head with that. I think back on the crap that I wrote when I was a teenager up through my early 20's, and cringe. I think when you're a smart young guy, you often have this mentality that everyone is going to be naturally in awe of how smart and insightful when you are, and that older people just don't get things as well because they're older and stuck in their old ways, and it's up to you as this smart young guy hip to the new ways to illuminate them. Will is seriously guilty of that- he has a strong tendency of calling Stefan, Brad, and JP out on their traditional ways of thinking and doing. I really can't see Will taking part in the "mafia justice" tendency of the family.

 

Would the restriction to only drive past 17 apply to Zach? He's not a resident of New Jersey, no matter where he goes to school. As far as I know, going to school is specifically one way in which you cannot establish residency. I could understand him not being able to get a NJ license, but wouldn't they recognize his Ohio one?

 

 

 

      For the purposes of the story, we're going to say that Zach got his Ohio license when he turned 16 in May, and that he's keeping his car licensed with Ohio.

 

       I knew a girl who was from Maryland who had her car registered with Florida because Florida is cheaper, so it does happen. Given that Zach doesn't have his own place, is only temporarily staying with the family for the 2001-2002 and 2002-2003 school years, and doesn't intend of permanently living in New Jersey, I can buy that Zach can get away with it. It's basically like a college student from out-of-state- they don't have to change licenses or anything like that. I had a coach who went to University of Delaware while being from Massachusetts, and he kept his Massachusetts license/registration faaaarrrrr past his UD years- probably not until he bought a house here. By that point he had to give up the charade of being a Massachusetts resident.

 

       It's probably to Zach's benefit that he doesn't get caught driving late at night or get pulled over, though.

 

 

C'mon I know you hate Zach, but seriously? Sending a gay kid on a Catholic school? There ought to be better options. I'm not exactly a pro on religion, but as far as I know they are Catholics.

 

     Don Bosco is a Catholic school, too.Zach is fine. He's deeply closeted, passes himself off as a macho straight guy, looks like Liam Hemsworth, and unless he gets horribly outed, his final 2 years of high school should go fine.

 

     Again, the reason why Zach is at Don Bosco is because Mark wanted Zach to be recruited by a private school that had a top football program in the 2002/2003 era. Don Bosco was ranked 9th nationally, and they won back-to-back state champs for 2002 and 2003. Zach will get to celebrate a state championship for his senior year, which is what any guy aspiring to be in college football would want. It's also to show that Zach is someone who isn't just an Ohio high school football star, but someone that's getting national notice- probably the biggest Hayes star since Jeff Hayes. (I got the vibe that Robbie was okay enough to get a scholarship to Princeton, but Jeff Hayes and now Zach Hayes are the ones that people are really seeing as having major potential.)

Edited November 28, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

     Again, the reason why Zach is at Don Bosco is because Mark wanted Zach to be recruited by a private school that had a top football program in the 2002/2003 era. Don Bosco was ranked 9th nationally, and they won back-to-back state champs for 2002 and 2003. Zach will get to celebrate a state championship for his senior year, which is what any guy aspiring to be in college football would want. It's also to show that Zach is someone who isn't just an Ohio high school football star, but someone that's getting national notice- probably the biggest Hayes star since Jeff Hayes. (I got the vibe that Robbie was okay enough to get a scholarship to Princeton, but Jeff Hayes and now Zach Hayes are the ones that people are really seeing as having major potential.)

 

Some clarifications:

 

1.  I don't necessarily want Zach to go to a private school, but I think it's important that he goes to a school with a good football program.  That could very well be a public university.  You're very correct, though, that with a top-rated football program like Don Bosco was fielding in the early 2000's, it definitely sets Zach up for a lot more visibility, and a lot more options.

 

2.  I don't think I ever wrote that Robbie got a scholarship to Princeton, and I'm thinking that if he did, it was negligible.  Paying for school wasn't something he had to worry about. 

[methodwriter85]

1.  I don't necessarily want Zach to go to a private school, but I think it's important that he goes to a school with a good football program.  That could very well be a public university.  You're very correct, though, that with a top-rated football program like Don Bosco was fielding in the early 2000's, it definitely sets Zach up for a lot more visibility, and a lot more options.

 

2.  I don't think I ever wrote that Robbie got a scholarship to Princeton, and I'm thinking that if he did, it was negligible.  Paying for school wasn't something he had to worry about. 

 

    1. Good point. And I've checked Don Bosco, and damn they've sent a lot of people to college ball and the NFL, although no super-stars. Still, getting into the NFL alone is tough as hell.

 

    2. Also good to know. I got the feeling that Robbie was good enough at football that he'd make a college team, but not a super-competitive one. My friend Tom played for Princeton, but it's not like it was a super-renowned program. Jeff Hayes and Zach Hayes seem like the big, major football hopefuls you've had, which makes sense- talent on that level is supposed to be pretty rare.

[PrivateTim]

    1. Good point. And I've checked Don Bosco, and damn they've sent a lot of people to college ball and the NFL, although no super-stars. Still, getting into the NFL alone is tough as hell.

 

In 2001-03 De La Salle in the East Bay (Concord) would have been the way to go. They were still in their national record 151 consecutive win streak and were named national high champions four years in a row (2000-2003). I am not a big fan of the Lasallians, I prefer the Jesuits, but it is hard to argue with what De La Salle did on the field in that win streak.

 

Or he could have gone to Mater Dei in Orange County. He would have just missed Matt Leinart, but Colt Brennan would have been his QB and Darryl Strawberry Jr a classmate.

[methodwriter85]

In 2001-03 De La Salle in the East Bay (Concord) would have been the way to go. They were still in their national record 151 consecutive win streak and were named national high champions four years in a row (2000-2003). I am not a big fan of the Lasallians, I prefer the Jesuits, but it is hard to argue with what De La Salle did on the field in that win streak.

 

Or he could have gone to Mater Dei in Orange County. He would have just missed Matt Leinart, but Colt Brennan would have been his QB and Darryl Strawberry Jr a classmate.

    

     I get the feeling that Mark wanted to pick a school in the Greater New York City area, so that it's possible that when Will does go to visit, he can take advantage of that great condo that the family has. Having Zach in close proximity gives Will a reason to hit up the greater New York area. (Will did basically say that he wanted to watch Zach play, right?)

 

    Although damn to the lost opportunity with Colt Brennan. God, that guy is fucking hot. (I checked out the NFL alumni from Don Bosco and none of them looked nearly as yummy.)

Edited December 1, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

In 2001-03 De La Salle in the East Bay (Concord) would have been the way to go. They were still in their national record 151 consecutive win streak and were named national high champions four years in a row (2000-2003). I am not a big fan of the Lasallians, I prefer the Jesuits, but it is hard to argue with what De La Salle did on the field in that win streak.

 

Or he could have gone to Mater Dei in Orange County. He would have just missed Matt Leinart, but Colt Brennan would have been his QB and Darryl Strawberry Jr a classmate.

 

I considered De La Salle, but I wanted Zach on the East Coast. 

[B1ue]

interesting chapter. I 'm glad Gathan was allowed to realize it was in no one's best interest for him to retain any control over Zach. I'm not sure putting Will in charge would be a better idea if this were real, but Brad was also correct that Will was assuming the role anyways. May as well make it official and give it restrictions, as well as throw Will into adulthood to see if he can handle it.

 

One thing though. When Will fired at JP:

“No, it is not,” I disagreed.  “Seems to me you didn’t feel like you had to disclose how much money you gave to Brian.  Now you’re saying I have to disclose whether or not I gave money to Zach?”

 

 I wanted JP to answer back "And I was mistaken in that case." Would have taken a lot of the wind out of Will's sails, but perhaps that's for the best. Gathan or Brad would have gone on the offensive at that point, and no one was in a state to think of all this rationally.

 

On that note, Will seems to be developing a tactic. He seems to be getting really good at firing everyone up so that no reasonable discourse can occur, which forces JP to shut everyone down for losing their crap. It doesn't seem like he's noticed that he's doing that, but I wonder if anyone else, like Isiodore or JJ, has.

[Kitt]

. I 'm glad Gathan was allowed to realize it was in no one's best interest for him to retain any control over Zach.

 

 

While I am not a legal expert, and I am sure if I am mistaken here someone will correct me, I don't think it matters one iota if GATHAN realized it was not in anyone's best interest.  The important point is BRAD realized it.  Unless I am mistaken, the decision on the successor trustee is his alone and Gathan at best can voice an opinion. Gathan would actually have no more right to determine the successor trustee than I do. Even if Brad were to pass without naming a successor at all, the responsibility would go to his heirs, so looks very much like Will would end up with the responsibility either way.

[methodwriter85]

 

On that note, Will seems to be developing a tactic. He seems to be getting really good at firing everyone up so that no reasonable discourse can occur, which forces JP to shut everyone down for losing their crap. It doesn't seem like he's noticed that he's doing that, but I wonder if anyone else, like Isiodore or JJ, has.

 

     Will is rarely if ever called on his bullshit. I really, really hope that the guy that Will falls in love with does that for him, because he needs it, badly. (Which is why I can't root for Tony, because Tony can't really seem to engage in toe-to-toe banter with Will.)

 

      It would be interesting if JJ did notice that. For a guy that's pretty self-involved, he can also be pretty damn observant when he wants to be. The line about the price you have to pay for Brad's deep love really sticks out to me, because it's so true.

[PrivateTim]

 I wanted JP to answer back "And I was mistaken in that case." Would have taken a lot of the wind out of Will's sails, but perhaps that's for the best. Gathan or Brad would have gone on the offensive at that point, and no one was in a state to think of all this rationally.

 

On that note, Will seems to be developing a tactic. He seems to be getting really good at firing everyone up so that no reasonable discourse can occur, which forces JP to shut everyone down for losing their crap. It doesn't seem like he's noticed that he's doing that, but I wonder if anyone else, like Isidore or JJ, has.

 

 

I agree that JP could have fired back that he judged wrongly on Brian, but more to the point I made earlier, Brian was an adult. As far as I know everyone in the story who got a car or gift from the Schluter/Crampton clan has been an adult and the gift giving member wasn't stepping in between a minor and his parents/guardians. That is my issue with the car.

 

And Will is very much a passive - aggressive. People need to start calling him back to the current situation and not let him distract with a "well you were worse" retort.

 

     Will is rarely if ever called on his bullshit. I really, really hope that the guy that Will falls in love with does that for him, because he needs it, badly. (Which is why I can't root for Tony, because Tony can't really seem to engage in toe-to-toe banter with Will.)

 

      It would be interesting if JJ did notice that. For a guy that's pretty self-involved, he can also be pretty damn observant when he wants to be. The line about the price you have to pay for Brad's deep love really sticks out to me, because it's so true.

 

I like Alistair as Will's future mister because he is someone not afraid to call William on his bullshit. Alistair comes from the background and breeding to not be cowed or awed by Will's money like Kai & Berto might have been.

 

**************************************************************************

 

Now I know this is going to shock people, but I don't like Tony.

 

Tony's problem is not that he has a hard time accepting his homosexuality, his problem is he is an asshole.

 

If Tony's problem was accepting his homosexuality on the float trip where he treated Will like garbage he would have been banging Betty Sue (or whatever her damn name was) not the football guy. No he was banging the football guy and treating Will like garbage because he is an asshole. Therapy can't fix that.

 

I hope Skylab falls on him on the drive back to Stanfurd.

[Mark Arbour]

 

If Tony's problem was accepting his homosexuality on the float trip where he treated Will like garbage he would have been banging Betty Sue (or whatever her damn name was) not the football guy. No he was banging the football guy and treating Will like garbage because he is an asshole. Therapy can't fix that.

 

 

 

 

Tony's problem (at least as he's explained) is that he thought of guys in terms of people you hook up with, not someone you fall in love with and have a relationship with.  So I think that in that situation, he didn't really give Will "girlfriend" status, which he should have.  That he loves Will, and has intense feelings for him, but still fucks around with Rick also dovetails into that classic closet scenario, where he probably convinced himself that blowing another guy wasn't really cheating, so messing around with Rick wasn't a big deal.

 

I hope Skylab falls on him on the drive back to Stanfurd.

 

 

 

LMAO

[Mark Arbour]

On that note, Will seems to be developing a tactic. He seems to be getting really good at firing everyone up so that no reasonable discourse can occur, which forces JP to shut everyone down for losing their crap. It doesn't seem like he's noticed that he's doing that, but I wonder if anyone else, like Isiodore or JJ, has.

 

That's a good point, and a good strategy in battle, but not if you really want to communicate.  And Will does seem to view this latest confrontation as a battle, and adopted almost a military strategy to eliminating his opponents. 

 

 

 

While I am not a legal expert, and I am sure if I am mistaken here someone will correct me, I don't think it matters one iota if GATHAN realized it was not in anyone's best interest.  The important point is BRAD realized it.  Unless I am mistaken, the decision on the successor trustee is his alone and Gathan at best can voice an opinion. Gathan would actually have no more right to determine the successor trustee than I do. Even if Brad were to pass without naming a successor at all, the responsibility would go to his heirs, so looks very much like Will would end up with the responsibility either way.

 

Actually, the only way the trust can be changed after it's set up is if the trust allows someone to change it, so presumably Brad is the one who is allowed to make those changes.  And unless the trust gave Gathan the right to make changes, which it wouldn't, you're right, his acquiescence isn't needed.  But it is symbolic, and since this is a family, harmony counts for something.

[B1ue]

While I am not a legal expert, and I am sure if I am mistaken here someone will correct me, I don't think it matters one iota if GATHAN realized it was not in anyone's best interest.  The important point is BRAD realized it.  Unless I am mistaken, the decision on the successor trustee is his alone and Gathan at best can voice an opinion. Gathan would actually have no more right to determine the successor trustee than I do. Even if Brad were to pass without naming a successor at all, the responsibility would go to his heirs, so looks very much like Will would end up with the responsibility either way.

I have no idea on the legal ramification, but I wasn't really talking about those. I mean, if Gathan wanted to spend the rest of his life trying to exert control over Zach, he's free to do so until someone stops him. But in this case, he stopped himself, which is growth for him that I liked to see.