Homophobes have homosexual feelings?

[shadows]

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/sundays...-name_page.html

 

This article seems to state so. I'm too tired (and busy) too look for the source article from the APA. Still, it's an interesting proposition. What if all those people who shout "fag" were secretly wishing they could take part in that which they publicly claim to loathe. Sort of the ultimate revenge fantasy isn't it?

 

I know the urban legend about the most rampant homophobes being closet homosexuals has been around for awhile, still nice to see a little evidence. Pity the level of homosexuals, and the level of those who are comfortable with their homosexuality isn't equal.

 

//shadows

[AFriendlyFace]

Well I think it's definitely true that some people who are vocally homophobic are indeed secretly freaked out about some of their most private feelings. However, I think there's ALOT of stuff coming into play here with not only the tests but also homophobia on all it's different levels.

 

Firstly, I tend to hold a view on human sexuality which is very unpopular in both the straight and gay culture. In fact I'm a tad hesistant to even voice it here; however, I will and I don't mean to challenge anyone else's beliefs/opinions. Also anyone can just assume they are one of the "rare cases". Basically I feel that sexuality is EXTREMELY complicated, and very very few people fit neatly into the gay/straight/bi boxes we've built. People in our culture, for whatever reason, need a label so they're pretty much stuck with one of the three. Frankly though I believe that most people will, at least on some level, find sex and sexuality arousing. I think it's true that many (or maybe even most) people are predominately attracted to one gender or the other, but I find it really hard to believe that MOST people can't find ANYTHING that they find sexually exciting in ANY members of the "unchosen" sex.

 

People connect in so many different ways and are attracted to so many different things. Have many of you really never found yourselves checking someone out from behind; "enjoying the view", then when the person turned around you realized they were the "wrong gender". Well what's really the difference? If you were checking them out and enjoying what you were seeing that's really all that matters (IMO). I for example am much more often attracted to guys. I find the male face more compelling emotionally and erotically, and I really like the male body. However, any attention/attraction I have towards the male genitals is on a more intellectual/emotional level than an animal/physical level. But don't get me wrong, I'm very animal/physical about other aspects of the male body, especially the face/stomach/HIPS/butt and arms and legs.

 

With women I'm less often attracted to them sexually. I find the face generally less "exciting", and with the exception of the breasts and genitals, which I am somewhat "interested in"; I'm mostly indifferent about their bodies. But of course I can easily form good friendships with women. I also tend to think any expression of love/affection between any two people is sweet and touching. To add to the mix there are general types of people I find more attractive than others. Which I won't go into for fear of offending anyone.

 

But all of these are just general rules about MY sexuality. I see exceptions to the "rules" all the time. Do I care? Nope, not one bit. I don't care who I'm attracted to or why. If I'm attracted to the person then so be it. It's the same with all my "likes" and "dislikes". I have no problem adjusting my previous assumptions/beliefs to fit with new information. I don't like pork but sometimes I find a dish I like. I don't like rap or techno as a whole but there are still many songs I do like. ETC. ETC. So I identify as "gay" because it seems to hold the most features I find important, and because while it might be possible for me to be physically attracted to some women I feel that for the most part I wouldn't be able to connect in a "romantic" way. However, if I found myself physically attracted to a women and rapidly developing romantic interest, then of course I wouldn't look back. I just think that while that's vaguely possible, it's highly unlikely.

 

So anyway getting back on topic, I don't think it's at all odd that the majority of men ("homophoic" or otherwise) would be able to become slightly aroused watching something sexual. I also think that there may have been a sort of mental thing going on as well. I mean the guys may have been extremely concerned about becoming aroused and thus did, in sort of the "don't think of a blue elephant" way.

 

Also I think that a great deal of the less aggressive, more implicit homophobia found in society is largely a result of fear of the unknown and unfamilar.

 

So anyway that was long-winded and probably full of things people can flame me for. But that's what I think. Take care and have a great day all!

 

Kevin (I'm "gay" I promise! )

Edited February 6, 2006 by AFriendlyFace

[NickolasJames8]

:pickaxe: :ranger:

Well I think it's definitely true that some people who are vocally homophobic are indeed secretly freaked out about some of their most private feelings. However, I think there's ALOT of stuff coming into play here with not only the tests but also homophobia on all it's different levels.

 

Firstly, I tend to hold a view on human sexuality which is very unpopular in both the straight and gay culture. In fact I'm a tad hesistant to even voice it here; however, I will and I don't mean to challenge anyone else's beliefs/opinions. Also anyone can just assume they are one of the "rare cases". Basically I feel that sexuality is EXTREMELY complicated, and very very few people fit neatly into the gay/straight/bi boxes we've built. People in our culture, for whatever reason, need a label so they're pretty much stuck with one of the three. Frankly though I believe that most people will, at least on some level, find sex and sexuality arousing. I think it's true that many (or maybe even most) people are predominately attracted to one gender or the other, but I find it really hard to believe that MOST people can't find ANYTHING that they find sexually exciting in ANY members of the "unchosen" sex.

 

People connect in so many different ways and are attracted to so many different things. Have many of you really never found yourselves checking someone out from behind; "enjoying the view", then when the person turned around you realized they were the "wrong gender". Well what's really the difference? If you were checking them out and enjoying what you were seeing that's really all that matters (IMO). I for example am much more often attracted to guys. I find the male face more compelling emotionally and erotically, and I really like the male body. However, any attention/attraction I have towards the male genitals is on a more intellectual/emotional level than an animal/physical level. But don't get me wrong, I'm very animal/physical about other aspects of the male body, especially the face/stomach/HIPS/butt and arms and legs.

 

With women I'm less often attracted to them sexually. I find the face generally less "exciting", and with the exception of the breasts and genitals, which I am somewhat "interested in"; I'm mostly indifferent about their bodies. But of course I can easily form good friendships with women. I also tend to think any expression of love/affection between any two people is sweet and touching. To add to the mix there are general types of people I find more attractive than others. Which I won't go into for fear of offending anyone.

 

But all of these are just general rules about MY sexuality. I see exceptions to the "rules" all the time. Do I care? Nope, not one bit. I don't care who I'm attracted to or why. If I'm attracted to the person then so be it. It's the same with all my "likes" and "dislikes". I have no problem adjusting my previous assumptions/beliefs to fit with new information. I don't like pork but sometimes I find a dish I like. I don't like rap or techno as a whole but there are still many songs I do like. ETC. ETC. So I identify as "gay" because it seems to hold the most features I find important, and because while it might be possible for me to be physically attracted to some women I feel that for the most part I wouldn't be able to connect in a "romantic" way. However, if I found myself physically attracted to a women and rapidly developing romantic interest, then of course I wouldn't look back. I just think that while that's vaguely possible, it's highly unlikely.

 

So anyway getting back on topic, I don't think it's at all odd that the majority of men ("homophoic" or otherwise) would be able to become slightly aroused watching something sexual. I also think that there may have been a sort of mental thing going on as well. I mean the guys may have been extremely concerned about becoming aroused and thus did, in sort of the "don't think of a blue elephant" way.

 

Also I think that a great deal of the less aggressive, more implicit homophobia found in society is largely a result of fear of the unknown and unfamilar.

 

So anyway that was long-winded and probably full of things people can flame me for. But that's what I think. Take care and have a great day all!

 

Kevin (I'm "gay" I promise! )

oooh....I like boobs :pickaxe: :ranger:

[vlista20]

There's a couple of people where I work who are homophobic. They never say anything outright to me but I hear them a lot talking about it. And I mean a lot. And I always wondered if it grossed them out so bad why they talked about it sooooo darn much. I'd think if it was something they didnt like they wouldn't devote so much of their time to discussing it. I don't work in the same area as these people, and I don't hear a lot of what they say first hand. I feel bad though cause there's a woman that works in their area who has a gay son. I don't think she's told anyone. And I feel bad that she has to sit there and listen to their nasty comments day after day. But I've strayed from my point. I think the article must have some basis of truth to it cause I see no other reason why these people who protest it so would dedicate so much time to anything unless deep down they were somehow interested. I dont' know that's just my opinion.

[TheZot]

While it's definitely true that some of the virulent homophobes are themselves gay and their homophobia is their (rather poor) way of dealing with it, unfortunately it's not the case with all of them. A lot of the 'phobes are just haters of one sort or another -- no hidden sexual issues or deep-seated attractions, I'm afraid. Scratch the surface and you don't find any gay, you just find slime. Most of the racists you'll find aren't secretly black (or whichever group they rant about) any more than the people who decry papists as evil are secretly Catholic.

 

Some of them are, certainly, and there's a lot of black, vicious irony there, but the plain fact is that an awful lot of people are just... scum.

[JamesSavik]

As a writer, I do a good bit of research to develop my characters. This is a result of the information that I've gathered. I won't write a slack-jawed yokel that hates those people. That's a useless stereotype. People are a LOT more complex than that.

 

This research comes from several sources including the DSM-IV.

 

 

_________________________________________________

 

Anti-Gay Bias

 

There appear to be several distinct "flavors" of anti-gay bias which tend to overlap in many cases.

 

I have observed that often when a person exhibits extreme bias, some underlying pathology may be involved. When one of these lines of reasoning is shown to be false, another one of the reasons will be brought forward.

 

I will try to list the typical reasons for bias and the pathologies because it is important for us to look at the reasons why people hate us.

 

 

I. Typical Bias

 

1). the Ick factor- the idea of two people of the same sex having sex is gross to some people.

 

2). religious objections- the Judeo-Christian tradition and the Islamic faith have strong taboos against gay sex. In some cultures this has been taken so far as to criminalize gay sexual acts.

 

3). It's not natural- this school of thought seems to think that same-sex attraction does not occur in nature despite all evidence to the contrary. They do not seem to have the same objections to organ transplants or in-vitro fertilization.

 

4). Gays are all Predators- despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

5). plain old garden variety bigotry- these guys hate anything different be it race, religion or sexual preference.

 

6). Erroneous Misconceptions- these people have heard something or have some belief about gay people and their behavior.

 

 

II. Atypical/Pathological Bias

 

1). ego defining bigotry- in this type of bias, the bigot believes that he is superior because of a defining characteristic like his race, gender or sexuality. Typically, this person doesn't have a lot going for them so their ego depends on a characteristic like race or orientation for their self-esteem.

 

2). Homophobia- this is a person that has some same-sex attraction but turns their self-loathing outward against others. Gay people constitute a serious threat to their identity

 

3). Post-Victimization Projection- this person has been sexually abused or sexually assaulted and turns his anger toward all gay people as potential sexual abusers or assaulter's.

 

4). Religious Fanaticism- this person has an underlying psychosis and believes that their actions are guided or directed by god. This is sometimes what is going on with many ritualistic serial killers.

 

 

The difficult part of this analysis is that the reasons for bias usually overlap and sometimes cover an underlying pathology. There is almost always no single reason for anti-gay bias and it's layers and psychological complexity make it a difficult issue to pin down.

[Eddy]

As a writer, I do a good bit of research to develop my characters. This is a result of the information that I've gathered. I won't write a slack-jawed yokel that hates those people. That's a useless stereotype. People are a LOT more complex than that.

 

This research comes from several sources including the DSM-IV.

_________________________________________________

 

Anti-Gay Bias

 

3). It's not natural- this school of thought seems to think that same-sex attraction does not occur in nature despite all evidence to the contrary. They do not seem to have the same objections to organ transplants or in-vitro fertilization.

I just this morning received the following and just had to send it along

 

Gay flamingos, steal chicks, good parents

 

DURSLEY, England, Feb. 4 (UPI) --

 

Two male flamingos at a British wildfowl reserve, inseparable for five years, steal chicks but make good foster parents, wildlife officials say.

 

Officials at the Slimbridge Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust in Dursley say the homosexual pair perform the elaborate courtship dance -- usually confined to males and female couples -- twice each year before building a nest, the Daily Telegraph reported Saturday.

 

"They seem very happy. They will probably stay together for the rest of their lives," said Nigel Jarrett, the reserve's aviculture manager.

 

"They are not picked on by the other birds. If anything they are afforded more respect because two males together can be a pretty fearsome prospect for the other flamingos."

 

The two birds, Greater Flamingos native to the Mediterranean and Africa, fight the heterosexual birds and steal their eggs -- and have raised baby chicks three times.

 

"They are very good parents though and behave just as the heterosexual birds do when rearing their young," said Jarret.

[libbonobo]

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/sundays...-name_page.html

 

This article seems to state so. I'm too tired (and busy) too look for the source article from the APA.

 

Link to abstract on PubMed

 

Looks like you need a subscription to get the text of the article though.

[AFriendlyFace]

I hear them a lot talking about it. And I mean a lot. And I always wondered if it grossed them out so bad why they talked about it sooooo darn much. I'd think if it was something they didnt like they wouldn't devote so much of their time to discussing it.

Yep that definitely seems to be a common thing for very homophoic individuals. It is very tempting to give them the old "Methinks thou doth protest too much" line. But it is possible other things are coming into play (I think anyway). Like simple socialization, a perception of how "a man's man" is supposed to act and talk etc.

 

"They are not picked on by the other birds. If anything they are afforded more respect because two males together can be a pretty fearsome prospect for the other flamingos."

[/size]

I quite liked this story, and you know on the surface of things you would naturally assume that the above quote would be applied to gay men too. I mean theorhetically a homophobic straight guy (by himself) would be hesistant to tick off two other men (in this case gay).

[Conner]

While I prefer to describe it as being "slow out of the gate", I'm one of those gay men who spent several years in denial. The denial, of course, was brought on by fear, both fear of exposure and fear of having to face my homosexuality. The denial was so strong that I married at 22, raised three children and stayed married for 23 years. Within a year of my separation, I found myself in another hetero relationship. That lasted 3 years. For 6 years after that, having decided that maybe women weren't my cup of tea, I tried to be asexual. It wasn't until I was 54, extremely depressed and ready to off myself, that I finally screamed, "You're gay dammit!" I'm pleased to say I've been getting better ever since.

 

I can honestly say that I never did the homophobic thing. Then again, I was never challenged on my sexuality. I just sort of held my breath for 40 years. Needless to say, I was less than an ideal father and husband given those long years of denial (read as emotional and psychological stress).

 

I just wanted to say that being a GA member for the past year has been a significant part of my self-acceptance / coming out process. It's threads like this one and the many great stories posted here that have contributed to that. So thanks for that.

 

Hugs,

Conner

[Klopfer]

There's also a penguin couple at new york aquarium.

 

Click Me.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Klopfer