[LittleBuddhaTW] SOOTB 20

[LittleBuddhaTW]

I wasn't planning on commenting on this chapter (yet), but I want to briefly mention the kissing thing ...

 

There are obviously some 'unrealistic' things that happen in the story, that's what fiction/fantasy is ... however, I think it is even more unrealistic to expect that sixteen-year-old boys would be completely chaste little angels in their first ever relationship. It just doesn't happen (often) in 'real life.' Teenagers are driven by hormones and curiosity. I think the important thing to keep in mind is how Connor grows/learns with each experience. And, in the end, who is to judge what is "right" or "wrong"? We don't like it when others try to apply their definitions of "morality" or what a "relationship" should mean on to us, so I'd like to think we wouldn't go around and do the same thing. If I was in Connor's place, I would probably have done the same thing as him.

[dkstories]

Watch out...he's written a chapter of Service now and it's been known to create a bloodthirsty trend in authors....

[ex52tech]

I feel like I've been torpedoed. I'm numb.

 

But its only a story, and a good one I might add.

 

Keep it up

 

Thanks for your hard work Kitty.

 

We can still get to you David, we know where you are. :nuke:

[Boxerdude]

Hi all,

 

I have spent the better part of the evening getting to know a new friend who is really into SOOTB. But, he can't stand the thought of Toby leaving us. I want to give a small but clear feeling on this whole subject. It has really bothered me and I feel that I need to voice my opinion.

 

Whether or not LB decides to let Toby die or live, we have to respect the opinions of those who voice them. Listen to what the people say or have to say. For some of them, it might be a little to close to home so their feelings might be different than our own. They may even choose to stop reading the story. Now, it is time for us to stop and think "why." We have no right to judge and I do not think that they are lashing out at LB eaither. We have all been judged and sent to jail by most of the straighty world, so why would we do that to our own. Read the posts that people put out. Think past what they are saying and maybe you might find someone who is in need of a friend. We have not right to judge as we detest it ourselves. Rise above what has been done to us and try and figure out how you can help your brother or sister. We have to be different and show the world that we care about one another and will suppor each other no matter what. No one out ther is perfect, but do not pass up the opportuinty to help another family member in need. Read past the writting and you will understand.

 

Sorry if I am preaching, but we do have a brother in need. I can not stand the thought that we would judge instead of offering a helping hand. We are better than that. Make sure that you see past yourself and are willing to give a helping hand.

 

Boxerdude

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi all,

 

I have spent the better part of the evening getting to know a new friend who is really into SOOTB. But, he can't stand the thought of Toby leaving us. I want to give a small but clear feeling on this whole subject. It has really bothered me and I feel that I need to voice my opinion.

 

Whether or not LB decides to let Toby die or live, we have to respect the opinions of those who voice them. Listen to what the people say or have to say. For some of them, it might be a little to close to home so their feelings might be different than our own. They may even choose to stop reading the story. Now, it is time for us to stop and think "why." We have no right to judge and I do not think that they are lashing out at LB eaither. We have all been judged and sent to jail by most of the straighty world, so why would we do that to our own. Read the posts that people put out. Think past what they are saying and maybe you might find someone who is in need of a friend. We have not right to judge as we detest it ourselves. Rise above what has been done to us and try and figure out how you can help your brother or sister. We have to be different and show the world that we care about one another and will suppor each other no matter what. No one out ther is perfect, but do not pass up the opportuinty to help another family member in need. Read past the writting and you will understand.

 

Sorry if I am preaching, but we do have a brother in need. I can not stand the thought that we would judge instead of offering a helping hand. We are better than that. Make sure that you see past yourself and are willing to give a helping hand.

 

Boxerdude

Well said, Boxer, I completely agree. I think it's important to remember that everyone has had a different past and everyone has a different perspective. What might be a delightful, moving, vicarious experience for some might turn into an agonizing, flashback of misery for others. I think it's of the utmost importance to remember that just because someone finds themselves unable or unwilling to read (and enjoy) a work which the rest of us have happily devoured doesn't imply that there's anything wrong with them or the piece.

 

I think if there's one great failing of serial stories it's that no one (not even the author in many cases) really knows exactly what topics and events are going to be touched on. This makes in impossible for people with key triggers to ask around and make sure it's "safe" for them to read. The single thing I feel the most guilt for having done in the past year is when recommended a certain movie to a close friend. I felt that it was an excellent, poignant movie which ultimately had a very positive, uplifting message. What I failed to remember is that the movie dealt with a woman (and mother)'s suicide, and that my friend's mother was a victim of suicide. You're quite right in pointing out that we shouldn't criticise such people. That truly is blaming the victim.

 

However, I think it's also important to remember that it's not the fault of the author, story, or audience if someone finds a story displeasing. Not everything is appropriate for everyone, but that doesn't diminish the quality of the work. Nor does it lessen the (positive) impact the story can make on others. I think all we can do is be aware of our own comfort levels, be supportive of people who inadvertently leave theirs, and trust the author to tell his or her story in the manner which they see fit.

 

Kevin

Edited June 21, 2006 by AFriendlyFace

[Boxerdude]

Kevin,

 

Very well put. I appreciate the fact that you really did get the just of what my long post had to say. Thank you again. I was very close to not post it but it was tugging at my heart.

 

LB has a wonderful story going and I for intend to be there to the end. If someone else finds it painful or hurtful to read, then I can only say, "It's Okay" and move on.

 

I hope to see more of your posts as I enjoy your point of view.

 

Talk with yall later. (yes I am from Texas, Yall is You All in country talk) LOL

 

Boxerdude

David

[C James]

I have spent the better part of the evening getting to know a new friend who is really into SOOTB. But, he can't stand the thought of Toby leaving us. I want to give a small but clear feeling on this whole subject. It has really bothered me and I feel that I need to voice my opinion.

 

Whether or not LB decides to let Toby die or live, we have to respect the opinions of those who voice them. Listen to what the people say or have to say. For some of them, it might be a little to close to home so their feelings might be different than our own. They may even choose to stop reading the story. Now, it is time for us to stop and think "why." We have no right to judge and I do not think that they are lashing out at LB eaither. We have all been judged and sent to jail by most of the straighty world, so why would we do that to our own. Read the posts that people put out. Think past what they are saying and maybe you might find someone who is in need of a friend. We have not right to judge as we detest it ourselves. Rise above what has been done to us and try and figure out how you can help your brother or sister. We have to be different and show the world that we care about one another and will suppor each other no matter what. No one out ther is perfect, but do not pass up the opportuinty to help another family member in need. Read past the writting and you will understand.

 

Sorry if I am preaching, but we do have a brother in need. I can not stand the thought that we would judge instead of offering a helping hand. We are better than that. Make sure that you see past yourself and are willing to give a helping hand.

 

Well said.

 

I'd like to add my own take on this. It might appear to be in opposition to some of your points, but I don't think it is, exactly.

 

There are a couple of parts of this story that hit exceedingly close to home for me. Toby is one of them. It wasn't cancer, and I'm recovered now, but last fall I was in the hospital and the Docs told my family, against my wishes, that I had a less than 50-50 chance of making it through the week. Not only did the news itself stress me out a bit, but I had to try and calm down my mother, who then went through a reaction much like Ryan's (or what I'm assuming is going on with Ryan). It wasn't a fun time.

 

So, does this bring back a few uncomfortable memories for me? Of course. But, let's try and imagine a story that had nothing in it that would make anyone uncomfortable in some way. It would have no drama, no suspense, not much of anything, really.

 

I certainly can understand why someone might need to skip sections of the story, or might decide not to read it, but there is something that I've seen that is bothering me a little. I've seen people say, roughly, "If X happens, then this story sucks". I have no clue how LB or Kitty feel, nor am I pointing a finger at anyone, nor do I have anyone in mind. It just bothers me when I see something like that, though I can also see it as a visceral emotional reaction to having a "nerve" unexpectedly "touched" by something in the story that hits on a sensitive issue for the reader. Just my opinion.

 

Toby is perhaps my favorite character in SOOTB, so of course I don't want to see him die. I even joke around about it here. But the story is the story, and it's IMHO a great story, whatever happens.

 

I think it's amazing just how many people this story has "connected" with in some way.

[LittleBuddhaTW]

I don't hold back when it comes to pushing certain buttons with readers. That's what an author does, and that's one of my goals. It's about manipulating the emotions of the readers in order to bring them further in to the story and to relate on a more personal level with the characters. Sure, at some times it may seem cruel, especially when readers are left with a cliffhanger, but that's all part of the process, and, IMO, is what good fiction should do.

 

I'm sure there are some points in there that certain posters would disagree with, and things they doesn't like about SOOTB, such as the use of cliffhangers, and how there are a number of "typical" cliches, etc., etc. However, each person has their own tastes in reading, and no one is "right" or "wrong" in determining what makes a good story. I don't mind the criticism, and much of it I take to heart and try to improve my writing. So don't feel like you'll be offending me if you point out something that you think is not written or expressed effectively or realistically (although you can't be totally 'realistic' when you're writing fiction/fantasy).

 

Anyway, that's all I have to say about that. And if you feel like you're being twisted and turned and emotionally manipulated, it's because you are. That's part of my job! :2hands:

 

And Chapter 21 will bring out a whole new set of emotions.

 

But all this talk about "death" ... who's to say that someone is actually going to die at all?

Edited June 22, 2006 by LittleBuddhaTW

[C James]

I don't hold back when it comes to pushing certain buttons with readers. That's what an author does, and that's one of my goals.

 

Minor nit-pick: I think the above should read "that's what a GOOD author does", because that's what LB is. When I made my first attempt at writing a story, I wrote it without any emotional things occurring. It would have made a good cure for insomnia, but little else.

 

It's about manipulating the emotions of the readers in order to bring them further in to the story and to relate on a more personal level with the characters. Sure, at some times it may seem cruel, especially when readers are left with a cliffhanger, but that's all part of the process, and, IMO, is what good fiction should do.

 

IMHO, a sure sign that you have succeeded is the cries of outrage indicating that readers have really grown attached to a character. If the readers weren't drawn in and involved, they wouldn't feel so strongly.

 

I'm sure there are some points in there that certain posters would disagree with, and things they don't like about SOOTB, such as the use of cliffhangers, and how there are a number of "typical" cliches, etc., etc. However, each person has their own tastes in reading, and no one is "right" or "wrong" in determining what makes a good story. I don't mind the criticism, and much of it I take to heart and try to improve my writing. So don't feel like you'll be offending me if you point out something that you think is not written or expressed effectively or realistically (although you can't be totally 'realistic' when you're writing fiction/fantasy).

 

IMHO, cliffhangers are great when there isn't a huge wait between chapters. (by huge wait, I mean several months). My view on criticism is that there is a huge difference between constructive and destructive criticism. For example, if I wrote something, I'd be delighted to hear "I think this was horrible because of X" but I wouldn't be so happy to hear it without the reason why. Just my opinion.

 

However, been as you asked for it, I will share one minor bit of nit-picking/constructive criticism: I'd have preferred to see slightly more medical detail regarding Toby's condition and prognosis. The lack of mention of treatment options (stem-cell/marrow transplant in this case) was slightly odd to me. Then again, there may have been good reasons for not doing so.

 

But all this talk about "death" ... who's to say that someone is actually going to die at all?

 

Uhoh... Just a hunch on my part, but I recall LB's response when Toby having Leukemia was first speculated about. It's in my sig.

 

I also note two lines of the song Connor and Cody played.

 

Sleepless child

There is so little time

 

I also think that it may not be Toby. There is an opening here for some very tricky misdirection and some surprises. The question is, did LB do so or not? Only Buddha knows (but the rest of us are free to speculate... )

 

My hunch though is that someone dies. Then again, that was my prediction for chapter 20, too, and no one did.

[Boxerdude]

Well, I think we have covered this subject enough. I appreciate everyone here. I think we are all on the same page. We all have opinions and emotions.

 

Thanks to everyone for allowing me to voice my opinion. I was extremely touched at LBTW's response. You are the best Author I have read in many many years. I have not read a book in over 10 years, but I have found myself glued to Nifty reading nearly every night now. Thank you for helping get back to it! I forgot it could be enjoyable.

 

Now, I really like your teasing us about chapter 21! I too have been under a different opinion and love the cliffhanger!! Excellent, Excellent writing!

 

Boxerdude.

[C James]

I'm definitely wondering what will happen with Ben now that he's discovered that he likes kissing boys.

 

I'm also wondering what will happen when Ryan finds out. That's a quandary: Ryan was fine with Connor and Cody's first kiss, but was not fine about the later ones. So, one has to wonder how he will react. I'd guess that much will depend on HOW he finds out.

 

I hope we get to see more of Cody and his mother. And, I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Cody in a loincloth was hot!

 

Even without the whole Toby sub-plot, I've had the impression that things have been "building up" for a few chapters now, towards some major happenings. Anyone else feel that way?

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Kitty has completed editing Chapter 21, and she spent an extra long time revising certain parts to make sure it is as powerful as possible. It's also a good place to stop for a couple weeks while I deal with my moving stuff and try to finish up on Chapter 22. It will be posted, as usual, this Saturday (US time).

[Drewbie]

Uh Oh. Crosses his fingers, that Cody and Toby will stay together, Toby is still alive.

 

 

Thanks Kitty for taking a long time for editing.

[Boxerdude]

I'm definitely wondering what will happen with Ben now that he's discovered that he likes kissing boys.

 

I'm also wondering what will happen when Ryan finds out. That's a quandary: Ryan was fine with Connor and Cody's first kiss, but was not fine about the later ones. So, one has to wonder how he will react. I'd guess that much will depend on HOW he finds out.

 

I hope we get to see more of Cody and his mother. And, I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Cody in a loincloth was hot!

 

Even without the whole Toby sub-plot, I've had the impression that things have been "building up" for a few chapters now, towards some major happenings. Anyone else feel that way?

 

Maybe Ben will end up with Mikeyl? I wonder if Ben kissed Mikey when he stayed all night??

 

Cody, I have figured out in my mind what I thing Cody looks like or should play him if there was ever a movie. Tom Welling!!! Tall, built, and very hot!!!

 

Thanks LB for letting us know when the next post will be. I know I am looking very forward to it.

 

Kitty, thanks for all the extra time to make sure that it will be the best chapter yet!! I am sure it is because both of you have invested so much into it.

 

Boxerdude

[NickolasJames8]

Maybe Ben will end up with Mikeyl? I wonder if Ben kissed Mikey when he stayed all night??

 

Cody, I have figured out in my mind what I thing Cody looks like or should play him if there was ever a movie. Tom Welling!!! Tall, built, and very hot!!!

 

Thanks LB for letting us know when the next post will be. I know I am looking very forward to it.

 

Kitty, thanks for all the extra time to make sure that it will be the best chapter yet!! I am sure it is because both of you have invested so much into it.

 

Boxerdude

um...I thought Cody was shorter than Connor though....maybe not....guess I have to go back and read the whole story again to find out for sure

[C James]

Maybe Ben will end up with Mikeyl? I wonder if Ben kissed Mikey when he stayed all night??

 

Cody, I have figured out in my mind what I thing Cody looks like or should play him if there was ever a movie. Tom Welling!!! Tall, built, and very hot!!!

 

I did a search for Tom welling, and didn't see any pics of him blond? I thought Cody was blond, but that might be just my bias (I like blonds).

 

Thanks LB for letting us know when the next post will be. I know I am looking very forward to it.

 

Kitty, thanks for all the extra time to make sure that it will be the best chapter yet!! I am sure it is because both of you have invested so much into it.

 

I certainly second that!

[LittleBuddhaTW]

um...I thought Cody was shorter than Connor though....maybe not....guess I have to go back and read the whole story again to find out for sure

 

To the best of my recollection, they're about the same height, with Cody maybe only slightly shorter. But what does that have to do with anything?

[Jaseon]

Hello,

I'm not sure how to address you, as LB or Buddha.

I have recently discovered your writing. Yesteray I finished SOOTB. I like the realism. There are many good gay stories, but many follow the same storyline. SOOTB is life as it really is. I especially relate, feel the emotions of Toby's illness. Last year, it's hard to believe it's been almost a year, there was a wonderful and very brave boy name Billy. He had many online friends. Billy first became sick with a blood disease in late 2004, but it went into remission and he was doing great. In the spring of 2005 Billy again got sick and this time he became sicker as the summer drew to a close. Billy left us last September. The wonderful person Billy was, he never compained but only woried about the pain his family and friends were going through. Billy had a very good friend from the Netherlands, Mattias. We kept in touch for a short time after Billy passed. Sadly, I guess life took us in diffferent directions. If by some chance you read this Mattias, you were very special to Billy. You should know this, but I have a felling you didn't believe it. You did so much for him last summer.

What I'm trying to say is. SOOTB storline about Toby's illness brought back memories of Billy. They are so much alike. outgoing. great sense of humor, alway smiling.

LB, I don't know if you knew Billy, he often visited the IRS,(Comicality) Chatroom. Because medication made him sleep alot he would be awake late at night and chat with us. Always asking how we were, interested in our lives. I thought maybe if you did chat with Billy, you were thinking of him when you were creating the character of Toby.

Your stories don't read like fiction, they are too realistic. They make one think an alwful lot about the realities of life. They offer so much more than the sugarcoated stories with farytale endings.

That's great when you're eight. As I get older I want to read about life as it is. I'm 20, and I want to read what about life I can relate to.

Tonight I'm going to read your "Coming Out Story"

Dom Luka is also one of my fav writers.

Thank you for sharing your awesome talent,

Jason

jasetomyfriends@aol.com

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Welcome to the forum, Jaseon, and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!

Edited June 23, 2006 by LittleBuddhaTW

[G4R3TH]

What if Toby told Cody he was dying and Cody killes himself to be with Toby in the after-life? It seems the type of thing he'd believe in.

[C James]

What if Toby told Cody he was dying and Cody killes himself to be with Toby in the after-life? It seems the type of thing he'd believe in.

 

That's downright spooky... And all too plausable.

 

The last chapter (20) was named "someone's final song". The only two people in that chapter who we actually see doing a song are Connor and Cody.

 

I think you just might have something here... It does sound plausible that Cody might, indeed, think that way. He might also want to "go first", to "be there" when Toby "arrived". We don't know what Toby and Cody discussed (though I'm certain Toby would never have gone along with that!). Toby might pull through, and find that Cody is dead. That would be utterly heart-wrenching.

[Boxerdude]

I don't know about Cody killing himself, besides LBTW has already tried stated that he never said anyone was going to die? He maybe aiding to his cliff hanger or he may be saying that we did not see a secret he planted in the last chapter.

 

I don't know why I thought that Cody was bigger than the rest and had dark hair? http://www.tv.com/tom-welling/person/12155/summary.html

This is a good website to go to for pic's of Tom Welling. He plays Superman as a teenager in Smallville. Used to be an A&F Model.

 

Real Hottie!! I still think of him when I think of Cody. Weird I know. But I guess I just did not think everyone was blond or red headed.

 

Boxerdude.

[LittleBuddhaTW]

This is the description of Cody from Chapter 8, his first appearance in the story.

 

As we were sitting there and the rest of the kids were leaving to go get drinks, talk, or whatever they did during their break, I noticed the boy who had been playing the guitar walking right toward Ryan and me. I instinctively wriggled myself as close to Ryan as I possibly could, practically ending up in his lap. The boy was about my height, pretty thin, although he was more built (heck, who wasn't more built than puny little me?) He had longish blond hair that came halfway down to his shoulders, penetrating bright blue eyes, very long eyelashes, and he appeared to be about my age or maybe a little younger.

 

He was actually stunningly beautiful, which I thought was an odd way to think about a boy, but he was ... beautiful. He wore a pair of tattered blue jeans, a brightly colored tie-dyed shirt, and a leather necklace with a strange kind of charm on the end. It looked like a little net, with small feathers sticking out all around it. I had no idea what it meant. I didn't even realize I was staring at him until he stopped in front of us and spoke.

 

"Hi, I'm Cody," he said, with a cheerful smile.

 

He's definitely one of my favorite characters, too ... especially when he's just wearing a loincloth!

[Jaseon]

One of the main point in the chapter will be obviously about Toby and it can go either two ways.

 

1) He dies.

 

2) He goes into coma because of high fever but pulls it off and recovers from the fever.

 

Basically it's extremely annoying to hold off us readers like that and make us wait for another week to see what the hell will happen never.

 

J'esp

[C James]

I don't know why I thought that Cody was bigger than the rest and had dark hair? http://www.tv.com/tom-welling/person/12155/summary.html

This is a good website to go to for pic's of Tom Welling. He plays Superman as a teenager in Smallville. Used to be an A&F Model.

 

Real Hottie!! I still think of him when I think of Cody. Weird I know. But I guess I just did not think everyone was blond or red headed.

 

I think there might be a reason for this. I know that when I read a story, I often envision the characters as more in accord with my personal preferences than as they are actually described.

 

In other stories that I have read, I tend to ignore descriptions that make the character less attractive to me. One example would be a hairy chest: Not something I happen to find attractive. So, I tend to "ignore" that fact and picture them otherwise. But, everyone is different, so I'm guessing that many people tend to "read in" their own preferences into an "attractive" character. Personally, I think that this is one of the advantages written fiction has over movies.

 

This is the description of Cody from Chapter 8, his first appearance in the story.

He's definitely one of my favorite characters, too ... especially when he's just wearing a loincloth!

 

Yes indeed! Tan, lithe, smooth, long blond hair.. And wearing a loincloth! HOT!

I didn't see any mention that he put on clothes while Connor was there, so I pictured him that way for the whole song scene. Wow!