M/M Romance is not the same as Gay Fiction

[Luca E]

...gay fiction is about living life as a gay person (or bisexual, pansexual, asexual, the term gay is used because that's the term most used for this fiction)... the goal of the story is not romance. The story realistically touches on just living life with a sexuality that is not heterosexual.

...a romance, whether you enjoyed it or not, you probably noticed a lot of unrealistic things about the novel. The characters constantly think about each other, there was likely a Happy Ever After or Happily For Now ending, they fell in love very rapidly, the sex was wildly passionate and amazing. Obviously, not what most people experience in real life, right?

Not to say that all romance fans are female; ...m/m romance is not an exception; it's written for women. Some of you are probably going to reel back like, No way, it has gay characters and they're men, you can't seriously be writing for women, that's not possible. Actually, it is.

(Gay fiction books) books are typically published either in small niches of mainstream companies or from small LGBT presses, many of which are now online.

"Gay" is put in front of fiction, and the genre describes gay fiction. When you put "gay" or "m/m" in front of romance, the genre describes romance,

...many of these novels (published by publishing companies) take place in alternate universes where being a man and having a man for a partner are not only not looked down upon but normal and even expected.

Romance Characters Act One Way; Realistic Characters Act Another.

...most hetero romance features these large, muscled men... m/m romance can and has featured everything from these guys to smaller, more effeminate twinks to the über-amazing, heavyset and often cuddly bears.

Gay fiction, as said before, is realistic fiction and therefore the goal is to make the characters and their lives as true-to-life as possible while still telling a dynamic story. 

In a genre (m/m romance) that does not focus on the real lives of realistic characters, almost anything goes.

What might be best for the gay fiction community is that it stops criticizing romance for not being realistic and, just perhaps, starts to work on accumulating more realistic stories to better reflect its culture.

All the extracts are from an article published in Mibba Creative Writing, the full article is on this link: http://www.mibba.com/Articles/Literature/6535/Gay-Fiction-vs-M-M-Romance/

 

[gdaniel]

Oh boy, do I agree with this analysis. That's why I write gay romance, and all of my stories have a lot of "not realistic, wish it were so," content. I have gien a gay friend two blow jobs (two years apart) which I enjoyed tremendously, but I could never write about them because there was no love involved. 

[Zombie]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

...gay fiction is about living life as a gay person (or bisexual, pansexual, asexual, the term gay is used because that's the term most used for this fiction)... the goal of the story is not romance. The story realistically touches on just living life with a sexuality that is not heterosexual.

some may well be

in fact this became very popular in post-war Britain where it was even given a name - “kitchen sink” drama - but for me it’s kinda dull, such that re-runs of Dallas start to look appealing…

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

...a romance, whether you enjoyed it or not, you probably noticed a lot of unrealistic things about the novel. The characters constantly think about each other, there was likely a Happy Ever After or Happily For Now ending, they fell in love very rapidly, the sex was wildly passionate and amazing. Obviously, not what most people experience in real life, right?

unrealistic is what most entertainment is about and again it’s been given a name - “escapism” - which is what most folks seem to want

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

Not to say that all romance fans are female; ...m/m romance is not an exception; it's written for women. Some of you are probably going to reel back like, No way, it has gay characters and they're men, you can't seriously be writing for women, that's not possible. Actually, it is.

m/m romance written by+for women is certainly a significant market segment but guys also write+read a lot of this stuff  And women writers have written m/m romance read avidly by a huge male readership ever since the English writer, Mary Renault, really opened up this market in the 1950s

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

...many of these novels (published by publishing companies) take place in alternate universes where being a man and having a man for a partner are not only not looked down upon but normal and even expected.

it’s called “Fantasy” for a reason

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

...most hetero romance features these large, muscled men... m/m romance can and has featured everything from these guys to smaller, more effeminate twinks to the über-amazing, heavyset and often cuddly bears

don’t think it’s true that most hetero romance is about musclemen - I’m sure some is but Jane Austin is still pretty popular…

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

Gay fiction, as said before, is realistic fiction and therefore the goal is to make the characters and their lives as true-to-life as possible while still telling a dynamic story

sure it can be but I think a lot of people want something else

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

In a genre (m/m romance) that does not focus on the real lives of realistic characters, almost anything goes

which might explain its popularity 

On 2/25/2023 at 8:30 AM, Luca E said:

What might be best for the gay fiction community is that it stops criticizing romance for not being realistic

agree, if that’s happening, cuz there’s nothing wrong giving people what they want (Oooh Matron!… )

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Zombie

[ReaderPaul]

I think each person who has posted has brought up valid points.  Some of the best stories I have read have been a mix of the viewpoints expressed.  At one point, I was asked by a relative who used to write romance stories for some suggested story titles and plot ideas.  One I proposed was, the title "Bye, Bye, Black/Byrd."  Plot: A bisexual man, Mr. Blue, is very attracted to two people: Mr. Black, and Ms. Byrd.  Which will get Blue?  While improbable, it could, in theory, happen.

I have read some very good books where people do ordinary things, for the most part -- go to work, pay bills, take care of the kids, get the vehicles repaired, go grocery shopping (growing up, the men and boys in my family did most of the grocery shopping; all of us shingled roofs, we all put up sheetrock on the ceiling for better insulation in that old house; we all carried water from the spring to the house, etc.). 

Sometimes, even books about the seemingly mundane can seem escapist.  IMO (In My Opinion), some of that might be seeing things from a slightly different angle that we are used to.  there is room for all of it.

[Aditus]

Or you could say whatever romance is not the same as whatever fiction. Not being realistic is one of the main points of criticism of the romance genre, hence @Zombie mentioned escapism.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Aditus

[Zombie]

Just noticed this final comment in the OP source article:

“Unfortunately, f/f romance has had trouble finding its niche in the world, and so m/m romance was used if only to reflect the majority of the same-gender romance genre.”

Seems to me that’s worthy of much more than just a single throwaway line, because the very first same-sex novel (in the English language) was the lesbian The Well of Loneliness written and first published in Britain in 1929 by Radclyffe Hall (again an English writer). My mum had a copy and she never expressed strong views on social political issues, so the fact that she had it and had kept it throughout her life impressed upon me the huge impact that book had in Britain. And yet “f/f romance has had trouble finding its niche in the world”…

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Zombie

[Libby Drew]

 I agree with many points of the article and, frankly, all of the responses. I will not belabor those issues, but I will add this:

As a published author of M/M fiction (this term is direct from the publisher's website), I can say with confidence and experience that the "unrealistic" "happy ever after" "smoking hot sex" "romantic" story is required if you want to be published in that industry. Obviously there are existing markets for gay fiction/gay literature, and I'm not speaking to those here, since it seems to me the original article is not focusing on them either. 

It would make me incredibly happy to be able to present a manuscript to my editor into which I haven't had to shoehorn the above prerequisites. I could do it, but I'm sure I would get a return email from the publisher with a LMAO emoji, and "No, really, what have you got for me?" in the subject line.

It's a business. So you provide the consumer of your product what they want and expect. I think it's an important point.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post. 

[gdaniel]

1 hour ago, Libby Drew said:

 I agree with many points of the article and, frankly, all of the responses. I will not belabor those issues, but I will add this:

As a published author of M/M fiction (this term is direct from the publisher's website), I can say with confidence and experience that the "unrealistic" "happy ever after" "smoking hot sex" "romantic" story is required if you want to be published in that industry. Obviously there are existing markets for gay fiction/gay literature, and I'm not speaking to those here, since it seems to me the original article is not focusing on them either. 

It would make me incredibly happy to be able to present a manuscript to my editor into which I haven't had to shoehorn the above prerequisites. I could do it, but I'm sure I would get a return email from the publisher with a LMAO emoji, and "No, really, what have you got for me?" in the subject line.

It's a business. So you provide the consumer of your product what they want and expect. I think it's an important point.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post. 

And you do a damn fine job of it, thank you very much.

[Zombie]

2 hours ago, Libby Drew said:

It's a business. So you provide the consumer of your product what they want and expect. I think it's an important point.

Exactly, and every business has its own templates and if you’re able and willing to deliver these then everyone’s happy  And “romance” of all kinds is a massive genre

But there’s nothing stopping you going outside the template and writing something different. Many writers do this, sometimes using pseudonyms (to avoid confusing core readers) and with a different publisher if needed.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Zombie

[Libby Drew]

4 minutes ago, Zombie said:

Exactly, and every business has its own templates and if you’re able and willing to deliver these then everyone’s happy  And “romance” of all kinds is a massive genre

But there’s nothing stopping you going outside the template and writing something different. Many writers do this, sometimes using pseudonyms (to avoid confusing core readers) and with a different publisher if needed.

 

Too true. But there must be marketability in some form.  I think we can agree on that. 

That's why I'm here, as a matter of fact. It's why I came to GA in 2007 and it's why I'm back now. Writing to the "template" bores me. 

No, that's not fair. It doesn't bore me. I still love it. But I have ideas for things that don't fit a publishable template. And maybe somebody wants to read those things. I don't know. Time will tell.

There is an enormous amount of freedom here. And acceptance. I've always found it a more honest, relatable environment than traditional publishing in that respect. 

[Luca E]

Publishing a novel (whether you do or don't) is in some way a guide to where those big numbers of readers are. Publishers want a book that they can sell in sufficient quantities (to make money). What are publishers looking for? They are not normally interested in anything less than 60,000 words. They are looking for a strong plot which is based on characters who are seen in depth, and for an original approach. They want authors who use words well, who understand such basics as spelling, punctuation and grammar, and whose prose is easy to read. Thet want authors who will be able to write additional publishable books or stories or features for them. They prefer an author who continues to write books in the same genre as their first work, rather than one who is a jack-of-all-trades.

To summarise: a successful book is:

• 60k plus words
• Original
• Easy to read
• Has a strong plot and characters 

All these pre-requisites are stated in this article https://www.writersservices.com/resources/what-do-publishers-want by Michael Legat.

My personal thought is that many stories lack that important strong characters and plot, because they focus entirely on the protagonist and his lover, those more successful novels expand to include sub-plots and additional important characters. 

When talking about a strong plot, that seems to me difficult to achieve if nothing is planned, simply sitting down and writing the story is likely to produce a simple two person love found, happy ever after, still popular, but never a great original story with intriguing plot and twist, turns, and surprises!

[Krista]

My mother had a thing for Fabio, I think... but since I thought he was butt-end ugly, I never wanted to read them growing up. At least the book covers have gotten better.  

I do like a strong plot to go along with the Romance aspect. I get bored very easily if I don't get it. It is escapism in a nutshell.

Cerebral gay fictions are typically great reads as well. I wish I had been more exposed to those in my earlier reading habits. Maybe give some suggestions so that I can pick up a few new things to read along the way, I'm finding myself becoming very picky about the Romances I've attempted to read of late.