C James

This discussion was in the song lyrics thread, but I thought that it needed a new thread, due to it being rather major news... Hehe ... since there's a possibility that the chapter may not be posted on time this weekend (Internet problems), I'll do it this one time, but I won't necessarily do so for every chapter ... we'll just have to wait and see ... Anyway, the song I chose for the title of Chapter 20 is from Elton Johnn's 1976 album, Blue Moves, and is called "Someone's Final Song." I won't say if only the title or the lyrics AND title are relevant, though ... And if Chapter 20 doesn't get posted this weekend, you'll have to blame Chunghwa Telecom and not me! I'll post the lyrics below... He died when the house was empty When the maid had gone He put a pen to paper for one final song He wrote - Oh babe, it's the only way I know it's wrong but I can't stand To go on living, to go on living, living life this way And I don't know what the time is Or what the next line is Or how you're going to take the news But if I had my life again I wouldn't change a thing I'd let nobody, I'd let nobody Stand inside my shoes Something's gotten hold of me This home is not the home it used to be I've gathered dust like the dying flowers And I've drunk myself sober After hours and hours After hours and hours

Well, we just found out the exceedingly ominous title of Ch. 20! It's in a new thread "Ch 20 is entitled "Somebody's final song"!! " I know it's not the same as a new chapter (Which I crave as much as you do) but LB has sure given us something to chew on!! I've posted a few thoughts on it in that thread.. Yipes!

Bob wrote.. I do agree that the solution isn't solely military, though I disagree on the economic development angle. In brief, many politicians and pundits have suggested spending hundreds of billions of dollars in direct Aid to the countries that are the source of much dissent and terror. The problem I have with that is that it seems to be a policy suggestion based upon political dogma rather than objective reality (unfortunately, exceedingly common in politics). The underlying reason why this would not work (and would, instead, likely make the problem worse) is a false precept: the idea that economic disadvantage is a root cause of terror. Simply put, in most cases it isn't, and I can prove it. Lets take a look at the nations that are the prime sources of terrorists and terrorism, and compare them to the more peaceful nations in their area. First we have Saudi Arabia: It is the single largest source of terrorists, especially on a per capita basis. 15 of the 19 9-11 hijackers were Saudis, as were the majority of the foreign fighters in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and Saudis compose the largest component of the foreign jihadists in Iraq. Saudi Arabia is also the richest nation in the region, and one of the richest on the planet. If one looks at the economies of the nations that are the worst sources of terror, one could actually make a better argument that it's prosperity and not poverty that is the culprit. As a point of fact, we do not see terrorists to any serious degree from any of the poorest nations on earth. Personally, I don't believe that either the cause or the solution is economic, nor can the area be looked upon as a homogeneous whole where similar causes and solutions apply. Saudi Arabia and Iran are both sources of terrorists, yet their respective internal sociaodynamic causes are very different. This is especially true of Palestine: It's a special case due to it's long conflict with Israel, and it has sociodynamics that would not apply elsewhere. With each nation (and sub-region) having different dynamics, the solution in each place must be tailored to it's individual situation. It's especially important to remember that things that work in one area may not work in others. One example would be an Israeli tactic: They often, as a matter of policy, bulldoze the homes of the families of Palestinian terrorists. This has, to the surprise of many, been a successful policy as it has deterred many attacks. It would not be practical to apply it elsewhere, though. My own view is that the solution needs to be multifaceted and varied, and every possible use of leverage must be made. I do agree about encouraging democracy, be it via friendly encouragement and help where appropriate, or by regime change when not (though for practical reasons this is can not be done frequently, and must be done for maximum benefit and leverage.). A gross generalization of my opinion would be that I favor the use of both the carrot and the stick. The recent changes in Lebanon and Libya, while very different in nature, were both in my view tremendous successes in the War on Terror. IMHO, we need to do more to take advantage of local differences, instead of viewing them as an obstacle. By applying multi-faceted and custom tailored policies and actions to each terror-source area and nation, and aiming for maximum leverage to achieve fixed goals, we could end this problem. Unfortunately, two prerequisites for success in foreign policy are coherency and consistency, which happen to be two things that the US has proven abysmal at, long term, for the last half century or more.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nick, that was hilarious, thank you!!! Kevin, you need to be careful what you ask for! First, you get to date you-know-who, and then DK has kindly offered to introduce you to a hungry Vampire Jarred!

Just in case you are referring to my post, I need to clarify it, as it could be interpreted in ways I didn't mean. I'm absolutely 100% in favor of gays having their right to marry recognized. I'd just prefer that the government got out of the marriage business altogether, though I realize that's unlikely to happen. Just stating my own opinion, not saying it's right. I also just realized that this might fit under the heading of "political", so if anyone feels the need to discuss my position with me, please do so via PM, as I won't respond here. I loved the humor in the original post.. Thank you Julien for posting it.

You have a good point.. He did say that he wanted to be in a G.A. story, when he really ought to have said he wanted to live in one... Just goes to show: When DK is around, you need to be VERY careful what you wish for...

Anyone who hasn't should check out DK's latest blog entry for his description of Dreams of Humanity. It sounds positively epic! I'm fascinated by the clones mentioned, and their respective status. I have to wonder if "Dreams of Humanity" is about their struggle for equality (being considered human)... The religious-fanatic Empire of Sol sounds sinister! This looks to be really, really good! To which Ghstwolf replied; Thank you! But, you see, I had no choice but to become Evil... I have after all only recently announced my intention to become an Author, and everyone knows that being Evil is a requirement for that.

THanks, Bob!! Both site look great! I'll read them in detail this evening. Your referendum process sounds similar to what we have in most states (but not nationally). Here in Arizona, the legislature can propose a referendum, though most come from gathering signatures. Referendums also over-ride the legislature, which I like.

Good thinking, but I have some doubts. It already seems like Mikey and the twins have known each other for years now. If something happened, it could've happened long ago. You're not alone that is curious about Ben's sexuality. Hmmm... That's an interesting angle. You may very well be right, but I see another angle being at least possible. OK, Mikey and the twins have known each other for years, but is this the first time that Mikey would have heard about Ben's possible sexuality? And when would Ben and Derrick hear about Mikey? Would they know before he was outed? I can speak from experience that it's very possible for two gay guys to know each other, and even live together as roomates, and be physically attracted to one another, yet still take months to figure out that they are both gay. That was without one of them being in denial, too, as Ben sounds to be. It;s also very possible to be in denial of being gay (and I imagine even easier to be in denial of being Bi) well past their ages. I certainly was. I'm certainly curious as to WHY Derrick and their parents think that Ben is gay or Bi. I'm not suggesting that anything physical will happen between Ben and Mikey, but like you I'm very curious as to what is happening with Ben, and wonder whether we will see some very interesting conversations there. It's definitely a puzzle.. Buddha works in mysterious ways..

I'd love to see a Jones Presidency too.. And as father-son presidencies have occured a couple of times in American history, perhaps, just perhaps, Davey someday? One possible twist on your scenario: Bush could be impeached, and then due to that impeachment lose the next election to Jones.

Thanks, Bob! Well, I'm submitting one story (across the Sand) for the GA Summer anthology. If it's accepted, you will see it then. If it doesn't make, it, I'll post it in e-fiction anyway, so it will be there. So, within a few weeks, one way or the other. For the multi-chapter stories, it should be immediately after that. I should warn everyone though: Neither "Across the Sand" or the first two multi-chapter stories have Sci-fi or politics. This is a surprise even for me as it was the politics and the technothriller aspect of DO (and the rest of the series) that I liked so very much. Basically, I couldn't think of a good plot for one when I first started to write. HOWEVER, I hope to fix that eventually as do have a third story that I'm working on for later that has a little sci-fi, and I have an idea (outline) for one with some politics.

I just read it, and that's intriguing! I do remember that when DOR was ended, the existence of DIR came as one heck of a surprise! I've been discounting the possibility of a new book in the DO series mainly based on things that have been said by DK, plus Trebs report on how happy DK was to have "finished" it. Hmmmm.. But, it could all be misdirection... DK is cunning.. So, could Dream of Humanity be a continuation of the DO saga? That might fit in with the hints of a "great finish". On the other hand, I think the last chapter of DIR will be great no matter what. I can only think of two endings that would disappoint me: One would be the world ending up a radioactive ruin, with Davey, Brian, and all the other characters dead. Not exactly a happy ending! The other would be if DK used a random word generator and posted nothing but 30 pages of random babble. Although, this method might be an amusing way for DK to drive Emoe crazy... "here, edit this, and I need it back by tomorrow". Other than those two scenarios, I think it will be great. But, that still leaves the question of what Dream of Humanity is. Talk about a cliffhanger: DK has given us one before we even see the first word of the story!

DK just announced in his blog comments that his new story is entitled "Dreams of Humanity". This is big news, as it means IMHO that we are closer to seeing it. Anyone have any hunches on what it's about, based on the title? Or on DK's past statements? Or on rumors? I think this MIGHT be the one that he mentioned was "real Sci-fi". I'm most likely wrong (I'm far better at predicting the past than the future ) but I'll give it a shot with a guess: It's set in space, and is based on a method of being able to use dreams to alter the fabric of reality. Anyone have Speculation? Rumors (either to report, or that you would like to start)? Guesses?

Very well said! LB and Kitty have done something wonderful in giving us SOOTB. BTW, if you haven't read it, I highly recommend LB's "Seeking Nirvana", a short story on his story page. As for you taking up writing, I certainly hope that you do! You have a way with both words and insight that is well-suited for writing IMHO. When I was in the far East, I learned that Buddhas like to have their bellies rubbed, too. It's considered good luck. Seriously though: I do hope the lurkers will start dropping in and posting! It makes things a lot more fun for everyone, and it's also a nice way to say "thanks" to LB and Kitty for giving us this fantastic story! I think it just might be... Hmmmmm.. First, he has Connor attacked, and then he gives Toby Leukemia, and now it's ransom demands!! Well, now you know why I sometimes say that "LB" stands for "Little Beelzebub". BTW, anyone besides me have any thoughts on why one of the twins, Derick (also known as Derick/Ethan ) is so sure his brother Ben is Bi? And, more to the point, what will happen when Mikey stays the night at their house? Maybe a whole new sub-plot in the making?

That's a good point.. My hunch is that LB did that for a reason, and that reason will involve some revelations and explanations in coming chapters. Just a hunch.

That sounds very similar to my own view. Technically, I am against gay marriage, because I don't think the government should be involved in ANY marriage, period. I think it should be just like any other partnership contract: the parties involved decide what the contract shall be. As long as the parties are consenting adults, I see no reason for the government to stick it's nose in. However, as long as there is government-recognized marriage, I certainly favor equal rights for all in that regard.

But Emoe, if it's you who encouraged me to write, surely you bear some responsibility for the anguish and misery of my reader (assuming I ever get one of those..).

Awww.... I think the final chapter of the DO series needs something to commemorate it.. Anyone else feel that way? Besides, DK, if you have your picture taken with your finger on the "send" key, you have a wide range of choices regarding which finger, exactly, to use.. (I'm recalling a photo of you, in your Navy uniform, on a park bench, flipping off the camera.. ) As for your last line... Hmmmm!! That's certainly enigmatic! I just hope you don't end the series with the world a nuclear wasteland, and Davey & Brian vaporized!

Thanks for bumping this, Myr! I wasn't around when it was first posted. This had me in stitches!! It's hilarious! And, I for one think that Myr makes an excellent evil overlord!

Was "Saturday nights all right (for fighting)" one of your candidates for the Chap 18 title? Interesting that the songwriter would characterize his own lyrics as being "rubbish"! What a really neat twist, using the song titles.. I recall that one of the qualities of Buddhas is that they are enigmatic... And you certainly are! I'm really looking forward to ch. 20.. Anyone else wondering what will happen with Mikey and the Twins, given that one is said to be bi or gay by the other?

Thanks, LB! Might I suggest putting a link to it on your page sometime? Just a thought. OK, I'm utterly useless at interpreting song lyrics.. So, what the heck does "I took myself a blue canoe" mean, in the song entitled "where to now, St. Peter"? The impression I got from the lyrics was that it's a song about indecision, choosing one's path, and mental angst. Did I even come close? I think I'll go back and look at all the previous chapter titles, now that I know what you were doing. I think this is very clever indeed, and gives the story a whole new layer of complexity.

For you and DK both, it must be awkward at times, as you probably both know that some of us sift through every word you you say looking for clues regarding upcoming chapters. You must also have to be darn careful what you say, as you aren't free to speculate (due to knowing!) Hmmm.. looking carefully at what you wrote above... could that be because something similar but different happens three chapters from now? BTW, I'll be happy to make chapter posts like that in future. It was certainly easier than trusting my memory! I think that makes perfect sense... And I also think it gave the actual scene far more impact (no pun intended) doing it the way you did it. DK, I have a suggestion: When the time comes to send in the final chapter of DIR, why not capture the event for posterity (and us)? Perhaps ask Trebs to take a photo of you hitting the "send" key, as you actually send in the final chapter? If you are feeling camera-shy, you could photograph just your finger and the button? Just a thought...

ROFL!! Funny that you should mention that.. Look for "Across the Sand" in the summer anthology. I'll be sending it in shortly, as I'm pretty well done. I don't know if it will make it through the selection process for actual selection for posting in the anthology, but I have high hopes. And, umm, I guess I'll mention it here: I have written a few multi-chapter stories. I just haven't ever posted anything, anywhere. I tried submitting one to Dabeagle a few years ago, but it got rejected. Frankly, there was probably good reason for that, as I think it's much better now since a re-work. I don't actually have any completed stories (except the short story for the Anthology). I've got two that are about ten chapters into roughly twenty chapter stories, plus a couple of stories that have only two or three chapters done so far. And, yes, I HAVE A PLAN! <cue sinister music...> I am trying to get the first ten chapters of three stories (so thirty chapters total) ready for posting. *IF* my summer anthology entry does ok, I plan on using the "success" of that, plus having thirty chapters ready for posting, to beg and cajole Myr for non-hosted "Author" status so that I can start posting in e-fiction and make the announcements in the non-hosted story annuncments group (I know I can post in the e-fiction now, but I want to be able to make announcements). I'd then post two chapters a week from two stories (four a week total) for a few weeks, and see what happens. So, Emoe, I am indeed giving it a try... And your post here today was indeed fortuitous! For now, in future years, as distraught and anguished readers, cradling their abused eyes, cry forth "why, why does he do this to us?" I shall be able to say "Don't blame me, it was all Emoe's idea..."

Some thoughts on Chapter 15... I thought I'd try something a bit different, and go through the chapter and quote and discuss some parts that really seemed especially significant to me. The first thing that I noticed was the especially well done lead-in.