Graeme

That's okay, neither was I until I encountered him. Have a read of this essay on emotions by Dewey. He's the one I'm talking about and the essay explains how he never knew he was gay until he read a powerful story online. That essay is over six years old, and a lot has happened in that time. In particular, the revelation that he'd been suppressing memories of being raped as young kid, and the eventual failure of his marriage (This is public information from his website, so I'm not revealing confidences). I'm eternally grateful to Dewey for many things, but most important was that he was there for me when my marriage was being threatened by my coming out to my wife, and he helped us get through that time. That was just after he wrote that essay....

No, no, no and NO! Just because some of us 'knew' from a fairly early age, we can't generalise to the wider community and assume that they're all the same. As I said in my first post, I know of someone who really and truly did not know they were gay until they were in their thirties. With a suppressed emotional development they ended up going along with the societal norm (that's my interpretation -- he's never said that) until something happened and they had an epiphany as to what their sexual orientation really was. A lot of people may be like you say (I think I fell into that category), but that doesn't mean they all are. Without evidence to the contrary, I have to accept Ken at his word and say he's in the group that didn't know until something happened to open their eyes. Yes, it's hard to understand, and maybe if you've never encountered anyone like that it can be hard to believe, but since I know someone who is exactly like that I have to accept that it happens. If it happened to one person, I see no reason to not believe it can happen to others.

Just because I'm a bastard... you're using what appears to be a standard clock for time, though Mars's day is slightly longer than 24 hours. It's too early in the story to introduce what's been done, but how do you intend to resolve that? I remember one story I read where they essentially have the clocks stop for the required minutes (just under 37.5 minutes). A sort of 'no-time' period. If that approach is taken I can see some sort of rituals or conventions developing regarding that time period. Probably not significant to the story (though it could be), but it would add to the flavour. I said it before, and I'll say it again -- you've got a talent for science fiction!

Very true, James That 'pressure' from society can help someone decide that they're not gay for a significant period of their life. If you include other factors, such as the suppressed emotional behaviour that I mentioned, it's quite plausible that a 37 year old male would 'discover' that he's gay. Up until he gets some sort of epiphany, he can legitimately believe he's not gay. There are also the ones, like myself at that age, who know they're gay, but don't accept it and behave as if it's not a factor in their life, but I don't think that's what Mari was asking about.

As a married gay man who didn't accept his sexuality until he was 40, I'll take a stab at answering that question In my case, I knew I was gay, but I thought it wouldn't matter. I love my wife and I'm able to perform in the bedroom (with two kids as evidence ), so was I really 'gay'? The answer, of course, is that I am, but sexuality isn't as simple as the labels indicate. I have a good friend who was in a similar situation to Ken in that it came as a sudden revelation to him that he's gay. In his case he had a suppressed sexuality due to being raped as a young kid. That traumatic event caused him to block off large amounts of his feelings, including his sexuality, and so he honestly didn't realise he was gay until around the same age as Ken. If, as listed, Ken had never had sex before getting married, then I can certainly see that he would be able to explain away any interest in other males as something other than being gay. For example, admiration for someone keeping in shape, envy of someone who he thinks is better looking than him, etc. However, if he has been repressed emotionally (that's emotionally, not sexually), which is not that uncommon among males who are taught to be 'tough', then he may not have realised how strong his emotions to other males really was. Your comment about his lack of social skills is an indicator of this, as lacking social skills can be as a consequence of not understanding/appreciating emotions in others. He could easily have explained it away by saying it was just 'mateship' (to use an Australian term). That is, male bonding or male companionship -- something generally accepted in society and not linked to being homosexual. Both Ken and Christina are going to be going through a really rough time. It took my wife about six months to finally accept that I'm gay and what that means. We've kept our marriage together, but over 90% of marriages where one partner has come out as gay/lesbian fail. If Christina needs support, the Straight Spouse network was formed to support the straight half in a mixed-orientation relationship. You can look them up online (I've never checked out their site, but my wife read the stories there often when she was coming to terms with what had happened to our marriage). There are also some good books available. I'm hoping that Ken will also get support, but I'm not aware of anything explicit for men in his situation. He was stupid for coming out so publicly without letting Christina know ahead of time, but that's water under the bridge. He has, however, done more than I have. I'm out to my wife's family (though they haven't told their children) and to a couple of other people. I don't see the need to come out publicly to others at this point in time, so I haven't Good luck to both Christina and Ken! They will, unfortunately, be having a really rough time at the moment. My wife contemplated suicide at one point after I came out to her....

What's interesting to me is the figures that indicate gay sex (giving oral and receiving anal -- the giving anal to same sex is not separated out). There's debate from time to time about homosexuality percentages. This survey indicates that the percentage of men who have had gay sex is at least 4-5% of the population. Not the 1-2% that some people claim, and not the 10% that others claim, but right in the middle of that range Of course, because the giving anal to and receiving oral from other men percentages are not separated out, the percentage could be higher. Then again, some of those would have been just experimentation rather than regular practise, so I'm happy to take a figure of 5% as being in the right ballpark

*sighs and puts on his moderator hat* I'm sorry I haven't been keeping up to date with this thread. In future, can people keep their personal disagreements off the public forums? Use the PM system or email, or just yell at the computer screen. You don't need to make the statements public. *takes off moderator hat* Sorry, Myk, but definitions are at the centre of the debate. Without consistent definitions, we're not arguing about the same things. Now, you can disagree with the definitions being used (and I, for one, am not sure there are good definitions for either asexual or homosexual), but that doesn't invalidate arguments based on those definitions. I became aware a long time ago that there are two broad definitions for 'homosexual' being used in public life. I'm talking about day-to-day use, not formal definitions. The first is that of a sexual orientation -- defining what someone is attracted to. The second is that of a sexual act -- if a person performs same-sex sexual acts, then they're a homosexual. This dichotomy is also at the heart of the choice vs inherent attribute debate. By the first definition, homosexuality is an inherent attribute. By the second definition, homosexuality is a choice. I generally use the first definition as I disagree with the second. As for asexual, I'm using the simple definition of someone who has a sex drive that is close to zero. If you think of the spectrum from homosexuality to heterosexuality, and then added a vertical axis for sex drive, it becomes clear that an asexual can be anywhere along the spectrum. Taking the other side of the argument, though, it could be argued that if the definition of sexuality (homo, bi, hetero) is based on what excites a person sexually (is it males, females, or both), then it could be legitimately argued that someone who is asexual doesn't fit any of those categories because they're not excited sexually by either gender. So the answer to the question all comes down to what definitions are being used. QED As for love, I've always liked using the three main Greek terms for love, which can be roughly translated as: eros - love of the body. Also described as sexual love. philia - love of the mind. Also described as brotherly love. agape - love of the spirit. Also described as fatherly/motherly love. Based on my definitions, someone who is asexual is not interested in eros, but they can certainly have philia and agape NB: The above translations are based on various novel's I've read and are probably not particularly accurate, but they've helped me understand the various feelings of love I've experienced over the years. Sex and Love are not synonymous. Sex is a form of Love, but it's only one form. There are others. EDIT TO ADD: Oops... I missed page three of responses before I made this reply I'm a little behind, so just ignore me

Congratulations, James! Keep up the good work.

To play the web blanket... all they've discovered is a planet that is in the 'sweet zone' where liquid water is a possibility. The planet itself is three times that of Earth, so a Venus-type planet is probably just as likely as an Earth-type planet. However, this does make that star system a prime candidate for any interstellar probes. Time to bring out the automated light-sail probe design and send one off as soon as possible. NASA needs something inspiring to do, and I think this would do it. Even if it takes a hundred years to get any feedback EDIT FOR CORRECTION: The press release from the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa indicates that they believe the planet is 30% larger than the Earth, but three to four times the mass. That's not three times that of Earth as I original said, though the gravity could be close to three times that of Earth's.

There's a thread in the Story Cafe: Recommended college-based stories. Lots of suggestions there And on long high school based stories, I'd suggest the stories by Dewey over at DeweyWriter. The first four novels are linked and can be treated as one long saga.

While I understand the plea of the author, I want to point out that sometimes (not always), you need to appreciate things from the reviewers points of view. I've got a particular case in mind I know of one person who has Asperger's Syndrome (he's quite open about this). One of the consequences of this is that he is unable to only mention good things in a review. He has to list both the good and the bad. This is not because he thinks the story is bad, but because in his mind he's unable to separate things out and only list one set without the other. He only has a limited ability to prioritise comments and usually can't just mention the important ones. Not all reviewers are like that, but if a someone leaves a review that you're not happy with, don't automatically assume the worst. Sometimes you'll be correct with that assumption, but not always. Take the time to try to get more information from that reviewer if you can -- you may be surprised. Graeme

This thread is seriously going off topic. If you want a thread to discuss flavours of ice cream (James -- you and I need a long and involved talk, such as how I can find a way to come to where you're living....) then start a new thread. If you have complaints about moderators, then contact me, JSmith, Trebs, Talonrider or C James. The moderation team does not tolerate unacceptable behaviour from moderators, and we do investigate all complaints. We also recognise that the moderators are also members, and as such are entitled to opinions. We won't chastise a moderator for holding an opinion. We will take action if a moderator abuses their position. Baseless allegations against moderators are, unfortunately, easy to make. Moderators are not allowed to discuss the details of moderator discussions, and that makes us easy targets. But I would challenge anyone who says that we moderators don't discussed and debate issues at hand. If anyone thinks that we haven't tried our best to be fair and reasonable, then I'd like to hear the details, because from my position all I can see is that we bend over backwards at times, trying to be generous in our deliberations.

Since my anthology story seems to have a part to play in the creation of this thread, I probably should give my opinion Before I read the thread, my response to the question would have been 'No'. However, I've changed my mind. As hh5 said, it all comes down to definitions. Too many arguments I've seen have come down to people having different definitions for the same terms, and their disagreements can be traced back to those different definitions, and that appears to be the case here. I originally saw 'asexual' in terms of sex drive. An asexual would have a sex drive that's close to zero -- in other words, they're not interested in sex. HOWEVER, that doesn't stop them from loving someone, and that would include loving someone of the same sex. Their love wouldn't be a sexual love, but few, if any, serious long term relationships are based purely on a sexual love. Now, given that they aren't interested in sex, does that preclude a sexual relationship with someone? Of course not! It would probably be more difficult for them to take certain roles (eg. any role that would require an asexual male to have an erection), but there are other ways that they could perform sexually. They may not want to, but when you love someone you try to please the other person, and that would include doing things that aren't at the top of their list of things they want to do. So, even if they are asexual, they are capable of loving another person, and that includes another person of the same gender. They could also have sex with that person, because, as a loving person, they want to please the other person. While I personally may baulk at saying that they're gay, by all practical measures they're in a same-sex relationship and I think that's enough to say they're gay. And yes, I know I'm being a hypocrite with that last paragraph, as someone who self-identifies as gay who is in a long term heterosexual relationship (we'll have our 20th wedding anniversary later this year). My only defence is that people are complex and we don't fit into neat little boxes (unless you use a chainsaw)

I've got a foot in both camps Personally, I don't search out poetry to read, and I don't write it myself. However, people I know and respect do both, so I accept that it's like sex -- we all have our different tastes and what rings one person's bells isn't what necessary rings another person's bells. Having said that, as the GA Anthology Coordinator, I'm 100% behind creating a poetry anthology for next year. The poll I did earlier in the year indicated enough interest from the members that I thought it was worth trying. I'd love it if there was enough interest to make it a regular event. So what if not all members are interested in poetry? Not all members are interesting in Science Fiction, Fantasy, Romance, Horror, etc., either but there are enough that each of those genres has people who want to follow them. I personally don't like to read horror, either, but I'm quite happy with the fact that there are those who do -- enough so that authors such as Stephen King are quite wealthy -- and I'm perfectly happy accepting horror stories in the anthologies.

I'd also like to thank C James and Joe. C James helped out with the formatting when some real-life issues stopped me from having the time to do all of them myself, and he ended up formatting about half of them. Joe also helped out at the end with a couple of late hiccups with the posting (such as my not realising I had misspelt the word 'Kansas' ). Finally, to all the authors, editors and beta-readers -- thank you! Without all of you there would be no anthology.

Sorry, the typo was by me -- now fixed (the index page will be fixed shortly)

And the Australian takeover continues.... Oops, I wasn't supposed to say that :wacko: Welcome, Jus!

The theme for the 2010 Fall Anthology is "No Going Back". Surprisingly, there are a significant number of science fiction and fantasy stories in this anthology. No so surprising, a number of authors have interpreted the theme as being related to marriage, which just shows that we still have a lot of romantics amongst our authors! We also have what I believe is the first lesbian themed story in this anthology. Check it out, as it just goes to prove that when it comes to romance, we're all human. Have fun reading the stories (and two poems) everyone! Just remember to click on the feedback/discussion links at the bottom of each story to take you to the discussion threads in the forums so you can leave the author a comment. A special thanks to all the authors for contributing to the Gay Authors Anthology, and to the editors and beta-readers, without whom the stories wouldn't be the same. Graeme GA Anthology Coordinator Altimexis - A Golden Opportunity When Jack loses his wife of more than 40 years, he finds himself besieged by widows looking for a husband. How strange it is, then, when he realizes the one he wants is his neighbor, Larry. Anyta Sunday - Promise Two boys make a promise, but it might just cost John his life to fulfill it... Bugeye - Allure If life is a dream, then grasping at the unviable� If life is all there is, then� Why this hunger Cia - Eren's Light Light and Dark are opposing forces, destined to be apart forever. Everyone knows that until someone decides to take what he desires, consequences be damned! Dolores Esteban - Pale Moon Rising He was still waiting for the dazzling white light that announced the arrival of the transmitter cabin. Slowly, though, Adonis realized that something had gone terribly wrong. Emulated - Not my turn Aaron was days away from coming out when his brother held a family meeting... Graeme - Selection Criteria Ensuring the psychological stability of the crew for the first manned interstellar is a big responsibility. Hamen Cheese - Ben Goes To The Zoo Kyle's younger brother Ben has always been different and has been treated as such. For Ben's ninth birthday, Kyle wanted to do something special for him by bringing him to the zoo. Jan Vander Laenen - Panic at the Police Station No way back ... A police officer helps a gay through the eve of his marriage jian_sierra - A Chance Encounter Due to their personal circumstances, Bill and Nate only had a day together. But as they get to know each other, something more than physical attraction developed. What happens when the day comes to an end? Johnathan_Colourfield - The End of Time Itself This is the story of the end of everything. The universe depends on one creature. The boy with gingery hair. The universe will not die with a crash, but with a whimper for its soul... Kanaye - Waiting Jared waits for Tane's nice guy mask to slip. Will Tane be the same as Barry, Jared's abusive ex-boyfriend? kevduenas - Shade of Reality A poem on time and memories. Kevin Caucher - A Tug at... Cliff is to leave the city tomorrow, and today, he is meeting Phil. Lily Gilding - Discordant Harmony A lesbian romance. Lugh - My Mystic Knight Two kingdoms at war face a greater challenge to come. The mystic knights heed a warning from the priestess and hatch a plan to bring peace, but first they must find the ones the gods favor. Mark Arbour - Kansas Encounters of the Close Kind Taking chances. Breaking commitments. Myr - Psionic Corp - No Return Mike Valdius has completed his training and is going into deep cover. Can he infiltrate? Quonus10 - The Price of Love An unstoppable evil is threatening the world. Barh, the last Magi is on a quest to find Chenoth, a spirit of great power entrusted by the God's to protect the people. But Chenoth's aid comes at a price, a price Barh is not sure he can pay. Renee Stevens - Mountain Hideout After being attacked, Trace needs both a place to recuperate and a place to hideout from the men who want him dead. Ricky - Resolution-14 Martin Wagner is 14 and different than everyone else in his high school. It worries him but he has a resolution, one that will take him to the top. Rilbur Skryler - Choice Zachary was a goody-two shoes born and bred. He'd never break a rule, or a confidence. And now he faces two 'right' choices, between duty to the law and duty to his friend. Whatever decision he makes, there will be no going back. Young Sage - According to My Observations Though I hate your hair, and you talk way too much about stuff I find boring, you have team spirit and a level head...according to my observations.

Kansas Encounters of the Close Kind by Mark Arbour Taking chances. Breaking commitments. :nuke: :nuke: Spoilers Below!!! :nuke: :nuke:

Personally, I cheat I use an American editor, so if I set a story in the USA I let him have carte blanche with changing details, including speech patterns. Some of the changes don't feel natural to me, but I accept my editor's views as being correct since they know the USA a lot better than I do. Having said that, that doesn't allow for regional differences within the USA, but it's still a lot better than what I would have done But James's point is well taken. I can almost always spot a non-Australian author who sets a story in Australia, or uses Australian characters. They just don't feel right, though I can't always say why.

The mere fact that there is a category of writing known as 'short stories' I think answers the questions. Stories can be long or short, and in both cases, they can be good. Short stories and novels, while nominally just different lengths, are actually very distinct. A short story tends to be a lot more focused than a novel, and trying to compare the two types would be wrong. I saw a description once along the lines of: Imagine a room. There are many things in that room. A short story illuminates one thing. A novel illuminates the whole room. A great novel illuminates the whole room and the world outside. Comicality's questions can then be paraphrased as, if you're going to illuminate the whole room, how long should it take, and how much light do you shine on the different things in the room? Some people like to see just the big picture items. Sort of like a friend of mine who was a tourist in London. He drove past Westminster Abbey and crossed it off his list because he'd thus seen it. That's a contrast to another friend who spent two hours in Westminster Abbey examining everything. They both had different views on how much time they wanted to spend on the different items. You can't please everyone, because everyone is different. Some like detail. Some like brevity. Some like a slow buildup. Some like explosive action from page one. The ultimate answer to the questions is the same as the answer to the following question: How long is a piece of string?

A few sayings from the Dove Chocolate collection: Life -- it's not like the brochure Money talks, but chocolate sings When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate If your chocolate melts, you're eating too slowly

Since I won't be taking advantage of gay marriage, my perspective, while similar to a few people's comments about, is about what it would have meant to me if it had been available before I got married. The main thing, I think, is that it would have told me that I'm not weird, I'm not strange, I'm not odd, that I'm normal. Some people may think that's strange, but I grew up in a culture which was neither strongly nor overtly homophobic, but there were enough subtle comments that I felt that I needed to keep my sexuality hidden. If there was a public indication, such as allowing marriage, that society thought my sexuality was okay, I may have found the courage to have come out as a teenager, or young adult, and not have to wait until I was forty before I finally accepted myself. So gay marriage is a step that society needs to take along the path to saying that being gay is just another facet of a person, and no more significant that whether they are left or right handed. That's what it means to me.

A really interesting question. Thank you! In real life I have a very similar personality to what I have here. I'm too old to make up a new persona when I'm still getting used to my current one In my case, my online persona has helped my real life persona, and they two have largely merged. Before hand in real life I was very introspective and rather grumpy. A lot of that was due to not being out, and even though I didn't realise it, it was eating at me. I know this because once I finally came out to my wife, and endured several months worrying if I had destroyed my family, I finally relaxed. People who didn't know that I had come out remarked on the difference in me; how much more relaxed and happy I was. But that started with my online life, because that's where I finally found an outlet for being gay. As a consequence, I try to be as honest as I can online, and I try to be as honest as I can in real life. The one significant caveat is that my family takes precedence, so I don't lightly reveal information that may identify me. Technically, I'm still in the closet, but that's no longer for my own 'protection' -- it's for the protection of my two boys. Because people who make up fictitious persona can get confused and forget who they are.... Exactly I believe research has shown people tend to be more honest online (generally), because of that anonymity. On the downside, some people can also be more deceitful, too, as well as many people sometimes losing the social courtesies that make up part of our social fabric.

Voting for the 2011 Anthology Themes is now open. You can find the polls, and instructions, in the Gay Authors Anthology Forum.