Stellar Veil Of Shadow

[Stellar]

The title says what it is about. This is the Official Discussion Thread for Veil of Shadow, the sequel to Hidden Sunlight.

 

Here it lies, in all its glory!

[Stephen]

Light and dark. Veil of Shadow is certainly more dramatic a title than Hidden Sunlight, but I sense a

connection.

 

At the moment what interests me most is finding out more about these Mishish or Dagenith creatures of

Planet Otsin, (I hope I got all that right!) I like the respectful, traditional aspect of these aliens and their

history. Yugan is already a little charmer, a cute little spirited bug. He's special. You do special people so

well...

 

Are they an insectoid race? You taunt us with pointed vagueness. Just so you know, I do like bugs, but

not all of them.  

[Bleu]

Where the heck is Shay? Where is Mira? What the *CENSORED* is going on?!

Sorry, but I had to ask.

 

Thank you so much for this sequel. I already know I'm going to love it. The scenery is now moving way beyond Lucere and is full of promises.

I agree with Steven that you do special people/characters very well. Personally, I didn't see the Dagenith as insectoids, probably because of the ears. They felt more feline to me, not unlike the sharpelings.

 

I humbly request Shay's presence in the next chapter.

[Stellar]

Light and dark. Veil of Shadow is certainly more dramatic a title than Hidden Sunlight, but I sense a

connection.

 

At the moment what interests me most is finding out more about these Mishish or Dagenith creatures of

Planet Otsin, (I hope I got all that right!) I like the respectful, traditional aspect of these aliens and their

history. Yugan is already a little charmer, a cute little spirited bug. He's special. You do special people so

well...

 

Are they an insectoid race? You taunt us with pointed vagueness. Just so you know, I do like bugs, but

not all of them.  

 

I very much understand how the naming will be somewhat confusing to begin with, since the naming mechanisms are developed directly from the race's past itself and thus have a particular style to them, the meaning derived from that associated history. To clarify these terms for you (and for any others who are reading this thread):

• Otsin is the village/settlement in which Yugan and his tribe live.
• Their world is Dagen's Grace, named after the legendary ancestral figure that the Tale of Sundering talks of.
• While their race as a whole is called the Mishith, those originating on this particular planet call themselves Dagenith when they wish to specifically identify themselves as being from this world. Since their isolation from the end of the previous age, those two terms are largely synonymous, as the Mishith of Dagen's Grace are not in contact with others from different worlds -- nor do they even know if any exist. However, the terms *DO* have similar but different meanings and the attached cultural connotations can alter a spoken implication accordingly. Consider a (rough) human analog to be the difference between describing someone as an American and describing them as a New Yorker.
• The -ith and -ithi suffixes are plural and singular pronoun modifiers, respectively. The plural pronoun is only capitalised when referring to the demographic in its totality; otherwise for just a group or multitude of individuals (two or more) it will be lower case. The singular pronoun is never capitalised and is gender neutral. Also, the singular suffix is sometimes used as a diminutive for children or as a social endearment.

They are not insectoid. They are humanoid (or possibly anthropoid, but that's just a quibble over the precision of the terminology) in that their basic musculoskeletal shape resembles a human one; i.e. walking upright on two legs, possessing arms and a head in the same general format that a person does. However, their physiology is functionally different in a number of ways; some of those I have already outright mentioned, others will become more detailed as the plot progresses. The pointed vagueness is deliberate, as like Shay's image -- whom *I* have a very good mental picture of but have yet to give *you the reader* much more than a cursory description in the text after a whole freakin' book -- Yugan's exact appearance isn't the thing of primary importance.

 

That said, things will become clearer, I can promise! I say that a lot, don't I?

 

Where the heck is Shay? Where is Mira? What the *CENSORED* is going on?!

Sorry, but I had to ask.

 

Thank you so much for this sequel. I already know I'm going to love it. The scenery is now moving way beyond Lucere and is full of promises.

I agree with Steven that you do special people/characters very well. Personally, I didn't see the Dagenith as insectoids, probably because of the ears. They felt more feline to me, not unlike the sharpelings.

 

I humbly request Shay's presence in the next chapter.

 

Hah! I can't blame you for asking

 

I must add that Hidden Sunlight certainly was not the last we shall see of Lucere, but yes! New scenery, exotic locations and whatnot, for me to blow up and send all kinds of people to their death in!    Uh .. just kidding! Except, not really, because ... um ... it's gonna happen here and there. 

 

Re: the ears. The comparison to cats, again, is not without some truth to it. For the Mishith, just like a cat, the ears are an obvious visual cue of telling another's emotional state. Perhaps the most obvious one.

 

Lastly, I'm not going to say exactly when Shay will make his first appearance. Ah that accursed plot secrecy! You will have to wait and see on that count.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Stellar

[Kiltie69]

Ooooooooooooooooooo, breath. Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Sammy Blue]

I am not certain, but I do fear a (forced) separation between Shay and Mira coming. In plots where you have a couple like them, separating them is one of the possible ways for the author to create 'problems' to keep the story going. While it is a way that can be taken in a storyline like this, I think it would tear me to shreds if I had to read it. I really hope that you will find other ways to keep it up, or if you do separate them that it is only for a short period of time.

 

I do see a problem coming up with 'they are brothers'. I thought about this whole 'guardian' thing for a while. Would it not make sense if Konstantin said that he adopted both the boys after their respective parents died? After all, they can easily claim they all are from the colony and hence, the social services of the earth should not get involved in any way. It simply is not their job. I do not see why the family they have should get into any trouble about that. We will see in the upcoming chapters, I believe.

 

I discovered this story just yesterday and have hence never posted here or in the former thread. I need to say, I think the bound between Shay and Mira is very special, one of the most interesting I have ever seen. I cannot wait to see more of it in this story.

[Stellar]

I am not certain, but I do fear a (forced) separation between Shay and Mira coming. In plots where you have a couple like them, separating them is one of the possible ways for the author to create 'problems' to keep the story going. While it is a way that can be taken in a storyline like this, I think it would tear me to shreds if I had to read it. I really hope that you will find other ways to keep it up, or if you do separate them that it is only for a short period of time.

 

I do see a problem coming up with 'they are brothers'. I thought about this whole 'guardian' thing for a while. Would it not make sense if Konstantin said that he adopted both the boys after their respective parents died? After all, they can easily claim they all are from the colony and hence, the social services of the earth should not get involved in any way. It simply is not their job. I do not see why the family they have should get into any trouble about that. We will see in the upcoming chapters, I believe.

 

I discovered this story just yesterday and have hence never posted here or in the former thread. I need to say, I think the bound between Shay and Mira is very special, one of the most interesting I have ever seen. I cannot wait to see more of it in this story.

 

Ah! Well, that is one of many possibilities. Shay is a wanted person, so to speak, though at this point in the story he still does not realise how wanted or by whom.

 

The problem with the guardianship issue is that Lucere's legal status (and that of all the other colonies) is considered to be null and void. There is no precedent for people arriving from another colony because those worlds are all ruined, have no people and are disconnected from Earth -- as far as the home world understands it. So Earth's law is the prevailing law for these refugees, doubly so since they have been accepted and provided for by the federal government since they arrived. Konstantin already has adopted the two boys in a figurative sense before arriving at Earth so your words aren't untrue, but Mira had pre-empted this by calling himself 'Andersen' right as they arrived. This implied a direct family relationship to Shay. While Konstantin could still claim to be an adoptive parent, he had to explain this situation away and also wanted the premier to formally recognise him as their guardian, just so he can ensure their protection under the law.

 

Thank you The story of these two takes up an extraordinary amount of my spare time, but I do not regret it. It is worth every word.

[knotme]

I had related best to Konstantin, Carlos, and Lily.  It hurt to lose two of them, and to lose Konstantin soon would be tough.  As fond as I am of Shay and Mira, they are so much larger than life, so amazing, that they seem to me more idealized protagonists than real flesh and blood. Without them, I would fear for the entire structure you've created, so they must continue, but I don't crave their presence on stage right now. Does that make any sense?

 

To follow up on my over-the-top "glorious struggle" comment in a review of "Unto the Breach", I was referring mostly to concepts in Hidden Sunlight so foreign as to defy language. None of that so far in the sequel, that I've noticed, but you've kept me active. Now I know for example that a nimbus of light is like a fuzzy, blurry halo (right?), and that Yakutsk boasts some of most extreme weather of any city on earth.

Edited November 18, 2013 by knotme

[Stellar]

I had related best to Konstantin, Carlos, and Lily.  It hurt to lose two of them, and to lose Konstantin soon would be tough.  As fond as I am of Shay and Mira, they are so much larger than life, so amazing, that they seem to me more idealized protagonists than real flesh and blood. Without them, I would fear for the entire structure you've created, so they must continue, but I don't crave their presence on stage right now. Does that make any sense?

 

To follow up on my over-the-top "glorious struggle" comment in a review of "Unto the Breach", I was referring mostly to concepts in Hidden Sunlight so foreign as to defy language. None of that so far in the sequel, that I've noticed, but you've kept me active. Now I know for example that a nimbus of light is like a fuzzy, blurry halo (right?), and that Yakutsk boasts some of most extreme weather of any city on earth.

 

Well, that is entirely understandable as those three were (and are) the grounding elements of being 'normal' people versus the super ability of Shay and Mira. You need not fear Konstantin's health, he is not going anywhere any time soon - I am hardly that callous! Though, I do not want Shay to become too idealised; so much of the first book was devoted to showing the sort of person he is. That is to say: he was an introverted chronically-ill 14 year old boy who didn't ask for any of this but got it all thrown at him in one go. He's got plenty of insecurities, makes the sort of mistakes a teenager would, and then has to deal with a whole raft of emotional issues and his own sexual identity and romantic feelings for another boy on top of that. I get, however, that he is the central force of the plot and his presence is somewhat magnified when you realise how much of that narrative revolves around him. I just don't want anyone to forget who he is underneath that colossal burden. The other side of that coin is Mira, who is much easier to idealise because of the role he plays in Shay's life, and in general. Though, in a similar sense to Shay, I do not want his journey of finding his humanity to be lost beneath his ability to do all kinds of crazy stuff and kill people at the drop of a hat. He's just discovering what it's like to be a person in between bouts of superhero activity.

 

You are quite right about a nimbus. Yakutsk also, it is the capital of the autonomous Sakha Republic, which covers quite a large area of Siberian Russia. The city has the coldest winter-time temperatures of any urban location on Earth (and can also get pretty warm during the summer, though this season is comparatively shorter). It's due to the being very far inland and a long way north, lacking the moderating influence of the Pacific Ocean - the precipitation and air currents - which is more than 1000 kilometres to the east. It's early October in Chapter 1, so it's only starting to go a few degrees below freezing. Though if the story were set at the same time in November, the temperature would probably be somewhere between -20 and -30 Celsius. No thanks!

Edited November 21, 2013 by Stellar

[knotme]

Questions about arbiters for any fellow readers who might want to weigh in. (Stellar, please abstain for now. I'd rather find out for myself before asking you to explain redundantly.) I had not paid enought attention to arbiters in Book 1, leaving my holes in my understanding. How are arbiters related to the Sharpe's virus? For example, did one begat the other? How are arbiters related to a sharpeling? Would any of these common Earth analogies work?: owner to slave, manager to worker, parent to child, god to subject, creater to embodiment of the creation? I'll return to Book 1 and try to find out, because it looks like arbiters will remain important to the action.

[Stellar]

Questions about arbiters for any fellow readers who might want to weigh in. (Stellar, please abstain for now. I'd rather find out for myself before asking you to explain redundantly.) I had not paid enought attention to arbiters in Book 1, leaving my holes in my understanding. How are arbiters related to the Sharpe's virus? For example, did one begat the other? How are arbiters related to a sharpeling? Would any of these common Earth analogies work?: owner to slave, manager to worker, parent to child, god to subject, creater to embodiment of the creation? I'll return to Book 1 and try to find out, because it looks like arbiters will remain important to the action.

 

As requested, I'll leave this to any other reader(s) who may care to explain. The floor is indeed open.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Stellar

[Former Member]

Questions about arbiters for any fellow readers who might want to weigh in. (Stellar, please abstain for now. I'd rather find out for myself before asking you to explain redundantly.) I had not paid enought attention to arbiters in Book 1, leaving my holes in my understanding. How are arbiters related to the Sharpe's virus? For example, did one begat the other? How are arbiters related to a sharpeling? Would any of these common Earth analogies work?: owner to slave, manager to worker, parent to child, god to subject, creater to embodiment of the creation? I'll return to Book 1 and try to find out, because it looks like arbiters will remain important to the action.

 

Arbiters are (so far) the highest in the hierarchy of the alien race.  Sharpelings are their...following so to speak.  The alien race that the arbiters are a part of are the source of the Sharpe virus.  I think a good analogy would be alpha to pack where the sharpelings are the pack and when an arbiter calls, they heed to the call. Maybe an even better analogy would be Master to Pet. *shrug* either way, where our heroes are concerned, they are baaaaaaaad news.

 

ALSO.  I was thinking of Mira as being more on the 'normal' side.  Maybe around 5'9".  Shay is just a SMIDGE shorter at about 5'8".  At least that's how I interpreted it.

[Sammy Blue]

Uhg. Mira's size? That's a  tough question... I'd say 5'9 or 5'8... and also Shay an inch or two shorter. Did you really never give any indicators? I already have Hidden Sunlight on my list for rereads... I'll look out for it.

[CassieQ]

I am in agreement with Myiege.  I have a 14 year old boy in my clinic right now and he is about 5'9".

[knotme]

Arbiters are (so far) the highest in the hierarchy of the alien race.  Sharpelings are their...following so to speak.  The alien race that the arbiters are a part of are the source of the Sharpe virus.  I think a good analogy would be alpha to pack where the sharpelings are the pack and when an arbiter calls, they heed to the call. Maybe an even better analogy would be Master to Pet. *shrug* either way, where our heroes are concerned, they are baaaaaaaad news.

 

ALSO.  I was thinking of Mira as being more on the 'normal' side.  Maybe around 5'9".  Shay is just a SMIDGE shorter at about 5'8".  At least that's how I interpreted it.

Thanks Myiege! Your answer came just in time. I got waylayed by Thanksgiving and the Anthology, but then Veil 3 showed up, no more time!  Thanks again.

[Stellar]

Arbiters are (so far) the highest in the hierarchy of the alien race.  Sharpelings are their...following so to speak.  The alien race that the arbiters are a part of are the source of the Sharpe virus.  I think a good analogy would be alpha to pack where the sharpelings are the pack and when an arbiter calls, they heed to the call. Maybe an even better analogy would be Master to Pet. *shrug* either way, where our heroes are concerned, they are baaaaaaaad news.

 

ALSO.  I was thinking of Mira as being more on the 'normal' side.  Maybe around 5'9".  Shay is just a SMIDGE shorter at about 5'8".  At least that's how I interpreted it.

 

 

Uhg. Mira's size? That's a  tough question... I'd say 5'9 or 5'8... and also Shay an inch or two shorter. Did you really never give any indicators? I already have Hidden Sunlight on my list for rereads... I'll look out for it.

 

 

I am in agreement with Myiege.  I have a 14 year old boy in my clinic right now and he is about 5'9".

 

So you all think he's probably 5'9 -- interesting. Incidentally, the average height for adult men in most countries is in the range 5'8 to 5'10. Naturally there's a bit of variation there dependent on ethnicity; i.e. Asian countries average on the shorter side, while northern Europe breeds them tall. Also worth noting is that this is for adults. Mira is physically around 15 years old, so he would probably end up taller than that. Granted, this could be accounted for by his Norweigan blood, as the Scandinavian countries fit on the higher end of the scale.

 

The reason I asked this question was because of curiosity about reader perception. It was either that or to ask something equally ill-defined like: 'what colour is Shay's hair?' because I am fairly certain I did not mention it even once in Hidden Sunlight. I think it was only in the third chapter of Veil of Shadow that I even gave a hint. I was (and still am) fascinated by how people's minds connect information over the longer term; essentially how they fill the gaps when left with inconclusive data. The only reference for Mira's height is comparative; he's taller than Shay, but not as tall as Konstantin (who is definitely over six feet) or Carlos. However, given that Shay doesn't say much about his own height - and why on earth would he? - other than that he considers himself to be short, this is left quite open. There are several times in Hidden Sunlight where Shay notices physical differences between the two, and also where the text implies certain limitations one way or another.

 

All in all, I know I leave details on some aspects of the story quite indistinct. That's often by design, but it has made me wonder just how the imaginations of other people see what I have written - and how that differs from the 'canon' in my head.

 

You know what, I'm not even going to say the number. Well, maybe I will, but not yet. I'll see how many other people reply.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Stellar

[Sammy Blue]

I suppose that a reader will (subconsciously) assume that if something is not mentioned, it is average. I would've expected brown-ish hair (which is very average, at least where I live) and an average size. As long as you don't mention details, some readers might imagine the characters like they want them to be, but I assume that many will just read over the fact that you left it out and assume something average.

 

Actually, I do have a problem imagining what Shay looks like. I suppose that adds to the whole mysterious/magic aspect of this story... that's just a thought I had while writing this, though... might be just me

[LadyDe]

I  picture Shay as similar to Daniel Radcliffe in Goblet of Fire. Dark hair and eyes, shadows of a strong jaw. In Hidden Sunlight you did say that the chamber he was in for 200 years had changed his body to it's optimum condition. Hummm, must go back and find that part. But I have been waiting on your description. And I understand your reasoning. 

 

5'9?  Ok I can see that. Fifteen is usually when teenage boys start growing overnight. 

 

Myiege, You nailed that explanation on the relationship between the Arbiters and Sharpelings. That's exactly how I view them, followers or pets.  And the Big Bad seems to be very possessive. That was him who said "Betrayers" when the two new changelings stretched theirs powers and touched him. 

[Stellar]

I suppose that a reader will (subconsciously) assume that if something is not mentioned, it is average. I would've expected brown-ish hair (which is very average, at least where I live) and an average size. As long as you don't mention details, some readers might imagine the characters like they want them to be, but I assume that many will just read over the fact that you left it out and assume something average.

 

Actually, I do have a problem imagining what Shay looks like. I suppose that adds to the whole mysterious/magic aspect of this story... that's just a thought I had while writing this, though... might be just me

 

I'm not sure whether people assume the average or just simply fill in the blanks with what they would *like* to see. Perhaps a combination of the two. I did touch on his physical build here and there in third person, but as to what he looks like, facial shape, hair and eye colour, etc; you would have a much clearer view of Shay's personality than his looks. I refuse to be one of those writers who inserts self-descriptive character references to physical attributes. I'm positive I've said this before multiple times but what Shay looks like has little-to-no impact on the story. Apart from serving as a point of reference to what Mira finds attractive, which so far can be summarised as: a shorter, slighter build with dark brown hair, a somewhat 'pretty-boy' face as considered by others ... and a really nice ass.

 

I  picture Shay as similar to Daniel Radcliffe in Goblet of Fire. Dark hair and eyes, shadows of a strong jaw. In Hidden Sunlight you did say that the chamber he was in for 200 years had changed his body to it's optimum condition. Hummm, must go back and find that part. But I have been waiting on your description. And I understand your reasoning. 

 

5'9?  Ok I can see that. Fifteen is usually when teenage boys start growing overnight. 

 

Myiege, You nailed that explanation on the relationship between the Arbiters and Sharpelings. That's exactly how I view them, followers or pets.  And the Big Bad seems to be very possessive. That was him who said "Betrayers" when the two new changelings stretched theirs powers and touched him. 

 

A comparison to Daniel Radcliffe in Goblet of Fire wouldn't be completely off, though I would say Shay has a softer slightly-feminine androgynous quality to him. If you recall Carlos and what he said of his brother Esteban (who was 'delicate' and looked like his mother, contrasted with Carlos' genes drawing on his father's masculinity), that description was transferred to Shay and very much cements the 'pretty' image. It is something that tends to bother him when other people notice it because he doesn't like being considered 'girly' or that he's less of a male because of how he looks. During his earlier life on Earth and due to his introspective nature, he never really understood how others viewed him though. It only became noticed during the plot of Hidden Sunlight when he was forced out of his shell (and catapulted head-first into romance.) Of course, Mira managed to counter that gender-sex insecurity in his own typical way.

 

With reference to the chamber, the physical alterations that took place were mostly *not* visible things; they were cellular/molecular or things within the body's deeper structure; i.e. Shay didn't look that much different after it was done. Internally, a lot of things were fixed/changed and his body was strengthened too, but on the outside, he still appeared (more or less) the same.

 

I've tried to avoid the discussion over arbiters-sharpelings as knotme requested, but I will say this: you've got it fairly accurate. The relationship between them is probably closest described as a master to slave situation. In chapter 16 when he encounters an arbiter, Mira retrospectively considers that when he was a sharpeling, he was a slave. As a sharpeling, any individual willingly does what the arbiter tells it to do, though this willingness is artificially compelled. The sharpelings want to serve and it is their purpose to do so, but this is brought about by the Sharpe virus. The mutation itself is the bond of slavery, the means by which manipulation and control is enforced.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Stellar

[CassieQ]

To quote Argus….hoo-lee shee-it!!!

[Bleu]

I am re-reading Hidden Sunlight to understand Veil of Shadow better. Your chapters are so packed with descriptive information! I realise how much I've either missed or overlooked when I first read your story.

Anyway, it's just as enjoyable the second time round.

[Stellar]

Absolutely reread if you feel you must. The truth is in the details, and there are often hints hidden. I trust you will leave that experience entertained and perhaps even enlightened.

[CassieQ]

No matter how many times I read it, the enormity of what happened at the end of Chapter 4 is still hard for me to wrap my head around.  

 

Yugan.  The kitten.

 

Yugan was the kitten.

 

Yugan was the !@#$%* kitten!!

 

NOW I'm wondering what Yugan will be seeing in future chapters.  Was he stored with Mira or Shay?  Will he be seeing the mysterious Australian compound that Mira is held in or is he in some unknown place with Shay?  Or is he somewhere completely different?  I wouldn't put it past you  

 

More questions Stellar!  We need Chapter 5!!!

[Stellar]

No matter how many times I read it, the enormity of what happened at the end of Chapter 4 is still hard for me to wrap my head around.  

 

Yugan.  The kitten.

 

Yugan was the kitten.

 

Yugan was the !@#$%* kitten!!

 

NOW I'm wondering what Yugan will be seeing in future chapters.  Was he stored with Mira or Shay?  Will he be seeing the mysterious Australian compound that Mira is held in or is he in some unknown place with Shay?  Or is he somewhere completely different?  I wouldn't put it past you  

 

More questions Stellar!  We need Chapter 5!!!

 

Yugan was and still is a guiding conscience inside that kitten. In actuality, his real introduction was during Chapter One of Hidden Sunlight. He was connected to Shay well before Mira existed, regardless of sharpeling and human form. The long period of comfortable warm darkness in Yugan's 'night vision' was, of course, the 214 years that Shay was in stasis. Yes! You did read that correctly. Yugan's childhood and maturation was more than two centuries. The Mishith are a very stable, much longer lived race than humanity. Mikom, for example, is in her twilight years at the time of the events in Veil of Shadow, though she was born during Earth's 18th or 19th centuries.

 

Wherever Shay is at and whomever has him, I'm sure his pet is with him. After all, it's just a kitten. What possible danger could it be to let him keep this tiny harmless animal?

 

None at all .... right?

Edited February 1, 2014 by Stellar

[CassieQ]

….excuse me for a moment while I pick up the shattered pieces of my mind up from the floor...

 

damn Stellar.