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Friends and Lovers?


I don't sleep with my friends. Well actually I don't screw my friends. Sometimes we share a bed in the non-sexual sense. It's always just made more sense that way.

 

Recently, Scott seemed to have been hinting that we might make a good couple again. I stop and look at it objectively and I have to say it makes sense from a detached standpoint. We have a lot of fun together. We spend a lot of time together. We're each other's 'type', and we definitely care about each other a great deal. But just the though of ever doing anything sexual with Scott grosses me out. Don't get me wrong, he is attractive, and if I didn't know him I'm sure I'd want to f**K him (how's that for a classic gay male statement?). But..EEEWWW! That would be like screwing my brother. Literally, it would feel very incestuous to me. It's not just that I would worry about it messing up our friendship if we dated (although that's certainly a part of it), I'd seriously be kinda grossed out about the whole idea.

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but I really think friendship love, romantic love, and sexual lust are very different feelings. Those stories about close friends become lovers are romantic...in theory. I mean it makes for a great romance story, and some hot erotica, to imagine two good-looking guys are such good friends that it just seems natural to cross that line. I'm definitely turned on by the idea and it's definitely very moving and compelling. I just can't imagine it. I've had some REALLY close friends before - Scott is a REALLY close friend - we're pretty damn connected emotionally AND we're physically (but non-sexually) affectionate. So it seems like if those feelings were going to happen they would happen.

 

I had a really hot threesome recently (scandalous I know, but what do you expect with a title that has the word 'lover' in it). In fact, I think it may just have been the best sex I've ever had. It was a couple. I've never 'gotten' the whole couple playing together and having a threesome thing. I'd be mad as hell at my boyfriend for even suggesting it. Well that would be my pure emotional reaction. My calm, rational side would probably prevail and I'd do my best to listen to his feelings and explain mine. But either way the answer would boil down to a resounding "HELL NO!" That said, if other couples want to do it I've always said I thought that was completely their business. In this case I decided that if it wasn't against the terms of their relationship and it was something we all wanted to do then it was okay. And it definitely seemed like something we all enjoyed!

 

I won't share all the juicy details since this is a public blog, but suffice to say it was REALLY good. What made it really good though wasn't just the fact that they were hot and really knew what they were doing. Part of it definitely was the simple novelty and excitement of the whole thing, the wondering about their motivation and what they were thinking (yeah, leave it to someone with a psychology degree to wonder about motivation, thoughts, and feelings while he's f**king someone), but one of the main things may simply have been the fact that I genuinely liked both the guys, particularly the bottom. He was charming, beautiful, intelligent, and a really good conversationalist. I met up with him before his boyfriend got home and we had a really long chat. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation (which was completely non-sexual) and his company. In fact, I was concerned that I wouldn't actually want to screw him anymore because I'd spent to much time enjoying his company in a non-sexual way and casually discussing his relationship with his boyfriend (a four year relationship which seems remarkably solid). Turns out I think enjoyed the experience even more since I'd had time to become so fond of him. It was also nice seeing them interact. There was a certain pure sweetness in their touches that belied the general lust and passion that was floating around the round.

 

We chatted some more after we'd finished and I decided that the top was a really nice, sweet person as well. So I actually couldn't help but think, despite the fact that it was some of the best sex I've ever had, that it was sort of a shame I'd just screwed them since I'd really have enjoyed being friends with them. And I pretty much had already worked out that friendship wasn't in our cards by that point. I'm not sure what sort of arrangement they have, but my guess is that not maintaining a relationship of any kind with the trick is probably a requirement. In any case I've not heard from them again.

 

Some people would be disappointed I suppose, but I'm really not. I'm a firm believer in just happily taking what people are willing to offer, giving freely of yourself, and not having major expectations. So I could be disappointed that I won't get to have a friendship with them, or enjoy more sex with them, but instead I'm content with what we had. It was really nice and that's all I expected and more than enough to satisfy me.

 

The point of that little story wasn't just for the sake of dirty sex talk. It was actually because that encounter is probably the only time I've ever had what I would consider platonic feelings for someone I've had sex with. That isn't to imply that my sexual experiences have been distant and unfriendly, quite the opposite I think the majority of my experiences have been quite warm. I almost always feel positive, caring feelings toward the people I have sex with. But those feelings aren't typically 'friendship' feelings per se. The sexual experiences I've had within relationships have always been emotionally connected and warm, but the feelings were romantic in nature. The non-relationship sexual encounters I've had have been warm and positive, but while I did feel an emotional connection with the people it was one of a more nondescript positive regard. I cared about them as human beings. I took added pleasure in making them feel good, and I wanted them to feel good physically and emotionally. But I would call that a sort of 'affectionate sexual lust'. It wasn't romance and it wasn't friendship.

 

I suppose this 'affectionate sexual lust' has been a part of nearly all my sexual experiences even when there were romantic - or as in the above case, platonic - feelings as well. With the 'affectionate sexual lust' I don't suppose I'd have enjoyed sex with them at all. Indeed upon reflection the worst sexual experiences I've ever had have been situations in which I didn't feel any 'affectionate sexual lust' (or romantic or platonic feelings) for the people at all. Those experiences would be about as close as I come to 'regretting' having sex with someone, but even then I don't 'regret' it exactly. I don't consider the experiences to be negative. I don't find myself harmed by them, and I have no particular reason to think the other people were harmed either, so I don't 'regret' those experiences. I just find myself unsatisfied by them.

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is that sex without the 'affectionate sexual lust' is pretty boring and unsatisfying. Sex with the 'affectionate sexual lust' but in the absence of either platonic or romantic feelings is perfectly nice and enjoyable. Sex with the affectionate sexual lust AND the romantic feelings is thoroughly delightful. I pretty much already knew all that. What I didn't know was that sex with the affectionate sexual lust and the platonic feelings was really good as well. I had assumed that it would be weird. It wasn't.

 

So what does any of that mean? Nothing really. I guess just that I can readily allow for the fact that sex with friends might not be as strange as I would have assumed it to be. The argument always went that sex with friends was potentially better because the individuals involved cared more about each other's feelings and well-being. That makes sense of course, except that I don't really need to be friends with someone to care about them. I've always really liked people and enjoyed making them happy, and been considerate of their feelings, whether I knew them at all. I'm also more than assertive enough to express my own wants and feelings. So I always thought that just adding friendship into the equation would create awkwardness without any real benefit to the experience. For all I know maybe it still would. I mean I can accurately say that I 'had platonic feelings' for those guys. I could easily have become friends with them, but I certainly wasn't friends with them in the traditional sense of the word. It's not like I'd spent a great deal of time with them or gotten to know them really well.

 

I have always thought that surely the best relationship - and the best sex - would come with someone with whom I felt an intense emotional connection with, a connection with was strong romantically, sexually, and platonically. I've always thought that would be nice. I can't say I've ever loved a boyfriend in that way - all those ways - combined. I suppose that's why I don't think I've ever 'been in love' in the standard sense of the word. I've loved in all those ways, and I've loved in every possible two combinations of those ways, but I've never loved in all three at once.

 

The affectionate sexual lust part isn't particularly difficult, but when it comes to mixing the other two I've always attempted to do it through romance first, friendship second. I always assumed that if you have a romance long enough, eventually the passion would go to the backburner enough so that a friendship would also form and remain - on top of the continuing romantic feelings. I thought that's what 'being in love' was all about. I still do really. I think that 'love at first sight' is nonsense. Lust at first sight is easy. Developing romance from lust is doable. Adding a layer of friendship to that fragile, heated mess seems more difficult, but possible. I always though that was the best route to 'getting the whole package'. However, I suppose it's very possible to do it any order. Maybe one can start with lust, resist - but yet maintain - the lust long enough to form a friendship, and THEN add in the romance. I've never pulled that off. I'll either start with the friendship and have it stop there or else I'll start with the lust, ignore the lust and form the friendship, but then find that the lust is completely gone. Alternatively I'll start with the lust, form a romance, but never bump it up to that top level.

 

I suppose that's why I don't fall for straight friends - well apart from the fact that almost all my male friends are gay. There's really little danger of me falling for a straight friend though. Even if he's hot (and really I'm usually more attracted to gay guys to begin with) if I've had time to form an actual friendship with him it's a pretty good bet the lust is turned off by then.

 

Anyway, I miss talking about sex with William. He's moved even further out of town and I rarely get to see him anymore :( I miss all aspects of our friendship, but I have to say that discussing sex is one I miss particularly strongly. I rarely discuss sex with my other male friends and when I do it's not all as juicy as the conversations I used to have with William. Still, I've got my lesbians and they're fun to discuss sex with (seriously).

 

I think this may be the most sexual blog entry I've ever written. See what happens when I don't get to discuss this stuff with William? :P

8 Comments


Recommended Comments

corvus

Posted

Hey Kevin. :) I completely agree with you on 'affectionate sexual lust' -- that's why anonymous hookups are so unsatisfying: there's sometimes none of that ASL. However, from personal experience, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the impossibility of close friends developing into lovers. That's what happened to me, and that was when I got the best sex of my life.

 

I also agree with you that the ideal interpersonal relationship should include romantic, platonic, and sexual elements. I'm also not sure which one of those three one should "start" with. I don't think it really matters -- at least, in an ideal world. If the possibilities of the three exist, it shouldn't matter where you start. In physics terms, "true love" is a state function and therefore isn't path dependent. :P

 

I do want to add, though, that you have a very good point about maintaining non-sexuality in platonic friendships with other gays. It makes life so much less complicated... <_<

Drewbie

Posted

Hey Kevin. :) I completely agree with you on 'affectionate sexual lust' -- that's why anonymous hookups are so unsatisfying: there's sometimes none of that ASL. However, from personal experience, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the impossibility of close friends developing into lovers. That's what happened to me, and that was when I got the best sex of my life.

 

I also agree with you that the ideal interpersonal relationship should include romantic, platonic, and sexual elements. I'm also not sure which one of those three one should "start" with. I don't think it really matters -- at least, in an ideal world. If the possibilities of the three exist, it shouldn't matter where you start. In physics terms, "true love" is a state function and therefore isn't path dependent. :P

 

I do want to add, though, that you have a very good point about maintaining non-sexuality in platonic friendships with other gays. It makes life so much less complicated... <_<

 

Im gonna agree with Corvus friends can become lovers, just the part where if it doesn't' turn out right can you become friends again, the gay friends I have there's no romance in it, plus we can fight like husband and wife :P

NaperVic

Posted

I just realized you don't really have any questions in your blog, you just wanted to brag that you were in a 3some. :P

 

Good for you :)

Dion

Posted

I always enjoy your blog entries. They aren't just food for thought but more of a buffet of interesting tidbits that one can re-sample and come away with yet another new set of perceptions.

 

I think, Kevin, that when you finally manage to find the one that can provide all three aspects of what you seek in a relationship the result will be not unlike the 'shot heard round the world'.

 

And he would be a very lucky guy...

AFriendlyFace

Posted

Hey Kevin. :) I completely agree with you on 'affectionate sexual lust' -- that's why anonymous hookups are so unsatisfying: there's sometimes none of that ASL. However, from personal experience, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the impossibility of close friends developing into lovers. That's what happened to me, and that was when I got the best sex of my life.

 

I also agree with you that the ideal interpersonal relationship should include romantic, platonic, and sexual elements. I'm also not sure which one of those three one should "start" with. I don't think it really matters -- at least, in an ideal world. If the possibilities of the three exist, it shouldn't matter where you start. In physics terms, "true love" is a state function and therefore isn't path dependent. :P

Hey Corvus,

 

Yeah, I would agree with you on most of those points. I'm sure that when friends DO turn into lovers the relationship (and the sex) is amazing. I just think that's a difficult and potentially dangerous leap to take. Sometimes even if you're willing to take it you may not 'feel it'. I just don't feel it with any of my close friends, but theoretically I would be willing to take that leap under the right circumstances and with the right person.

 

 

I do want to add, though, that you have a very good point about maintaining non-sexuality in platonic friendships with other gays. It makes life so much less complicated... <_<

Well, I think what it really comes down to is that when you meet a new gay guy you're better off deciding right away whether or not you want to boyfriends or 'girlfriends' :P

AFriendlyFace

Posted

Im gonna agree with Corvus friends can become lovers, just the part where if it doesn't' turn out right can you become friends again, the gay friends I have there's no romance in it, plus we can fight like husband and wife :P

Yes, from my experience that's very common. At least the no romance part, I don't bicker with my friends that much.

 

I think that being friends again thing is easier said than done though. It's possible, but it's pretty darn tough! Once you've had a romance with someone, especially a failed romance, you can't help but to see them in a completely different light. With my ex-boyfriends I still get along fine with them. We're perfectly pleasant to each other and I can often enjoy their company. However, I find that I'm a bit more critical of them, at least in my head, and that there's also too much 'tension' (in good and bad ways) to make a sustained interaction comfortable.

AFriendlyFace

Posted

I just realized you don't really have any questions in your blog, you just wanted to brag that you were in a 3some. :P

 

Good for you :)

LOL Vic, well I didn't really have any questions per se, but as with many of my blog entries I just wanted to explore a line of thought and ponder things. The bragging about the threesome thing was a total side effect 0:)

AFriendlyFace

Posted

I always enjoy your blog entries. They aren't just food for thought but more of a buffet of interesting tidbits that one can re-sample and come away with yet another new set of perceptions.

 

I think, Kevin, that when you finally manage to find the one that can provide all three aspects of what you seek in a relationship the result will be not unlike the 'shot heard round the world'.

 

And he would be a very lucky guy...

 

Awww Thanks, Dion! :wub:

 

If I do find someone who can provide all three of those things I certainly hope I'm not foolish enough to let him get away!

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