What do you like about being gay?

[Tiger]

Wow James! I am so sorry that people would treat you like that. I really do think you need to seek a way out of there so that you can move to a more progressive area. In addition, you probably need to help sorting it all out. I hope you don't take that the wrong way. I say it with nothing but compassion, sympathy and respect.

[Jack Frost]

Though that does present another new problem... who pays for dinner? LOL

It gets worse. Try be in the "married" shoes and I had a few people subtly mocking me and calling me or my hubby "the wife" or ... I'll quote someone who said to me a month ago.

 

Oh, now I remember. He's got a wife husband.

It was the most insulting remark I ever heard in months. I so wanted to give him a bloody nose on his face, but that assf**k is lucky enough to be living on the other side of the world. And I tell you, you would have to do A LOT to offend the shit out of me.

 

*ends rants*

 

 

Why do I like?

 

Simple, I can lust after wonderful chests and still be a guy. Being a woman lusting after the same thing is just shanky.

 

And I can get another point of view of the world being in a minority. ^^

Edited June 7, 2008 by Jack Frost

[JamesSavik]

Wow James! I am so sorry that people would treat you like that. I really do think you need to seek a way out of there so that you can move to a more progressive area.

 

This is where the war is. This is where my lovers and friends are buried. The problem with a war is that after you've been in it so long, there's nothing left of you and there's nowhere you are fit to be.

 

That's why I started writing my story Broken but it got to a point to where I couldn't face it anymore.

 

I didn't really mean to piss in the punch-bowl but a lot of people seem to have forgotten what its all about. My story is a 70s era horror story and I doubt it would be tolerated anywhere in the US today but people still suffer because they are GLBT. People still give into the despair. Suicide is still one of our biggest killers.

 

 

 

In addition, you probably need to help sorting it all out. I hope you don't take that the wrong way. I say it with nothing but compassion, sympathy and respect.

 

I see a shrink once a month and go to 12 step meetings a couple of times a week.

[Razor]

This is where the war is. This is where my lovers and friends are buried. The problem with a war is that after you've been in it so long, there's nothing left of you and there's nowhere you are fit to be.

 

 

Y'know, a lot of people ask me why I chose a college in Mississippi when I probably could've gone out of state, or they ask me where I intend to live... and oddly enough I really want to live here. I don't know whether I can invest the amount of stoicism and effort it would take to live normally (at least my version of normal) here, but it is kind of like James said. I've thought about it, and the big problem with Mississippi is that it's the dregs; everyone that gets rich leaves, all the smart people leave, and all we're left with is the dregs of society.

 

Is it really okay to just run away in search of something a bit better and leave the next round to deal with the same shit? And if I did stay, would it really make any difference at all to have just one more out gay guy trying to be normal in the midst of southern baptists?

 

~shrug~ I do like the small town feel sometimes, and I'd want to have a family somewhere with the same small town feel, but I don't want them surrounded by idiots, either. Too many factors right now for me to make a choice, but it would really be nice if more people actually stayed in Mississippi other than religio-conservative freaks.

 

For some reason, even though Columbia, MS gave me all kinds of hell, it still kind of feels like home. That might be how everybody feels about their hometown, though. Hey, maybe I could find a better home, dunno.

[GaryK]

Is it really okay to just run away in search of something a bit better and leave the next round to deal with the same shit? And if I did stay, would it really make any difference at all to have just one more out gay guy trying to be normal in the midst of southern baptists?

Don't look at it as running away Jamie. You've done the best you can there and perhaps it's time to move to a place where you can live your life without constantly trying to measure up to everyone else's expectations of what normal means. It's always nice to do stuff that'll leave the next generation in a better place than you were. But that shouldn't be the focus of your life. Live your life the way you want to and you'll set a good example for the next round to deal with.

[Tiger]

I can understand that, Jamie. I happen to live in hostile territory as well. While I will always consider this region home, there is a part of me that eventually wants to leave. That is a personal decision I have to make for myself. However, I can understand sentimentality, because there is a side of me that would be content with living closer to the city (Kansas City) but still in driving distance to where I live now.

[AFriendlyFace]

Well I can certainly understand and respect that and I think it's very admirable! I also agree that it's probably the only way it's going to get better. However, personally speaking there IS a limit to how much I'm willing to do and how much I'm willing to sacrifice, and that doesn't include living somewhere I'll be unhappy or won't be treated fairly. Worse, I couldn't imagine being comfortable raising kids (which is a goal for me) in such an environment. I agree that someone should do something about it, but I'm going to be selfish and defer that to someone else. For me living in a gay friendly city with a large gay community will probably remain a priority for the foreseeable future.

[Jonnie]

I've never totally liked being gay. It's not to say I'm ashamed of it, I'm just not proud of it, and don't find it too important. I really don't like the connotation of being gay, and I'm glad don't fit nearly any of the gay stereotypes I've heard (well, I heard listening to classical music was a stereotype, but I think that stereotype has no basis at all: how is that a gay thing?).

 

Anyway, if there's anything I do find good about it, it's the fact I don't have to deal with women unless I absolutely have to. I want meaningful relationships—my idea of a good relationship is any straight, strong-Christian guy's, except with a man. Being gay, I don't have to deal with women on any sort of deep level, and being misogynistic (not a whole lot, mind you, but a lot more than most guys, I think), that aspect of being gay makes me a happy camper.

 

Therefore, if a straight pill were ever made, I would flat-out refuse to take it. But...if there was a pill to make me asexual, I'd probably take it.

[AFriendlyFace]

Well, I was thinking today that being gay was probably the best thing that ever happened to me...so I thought this was an appropriate place to share that

[Tiger]

Jonnie, I think from what you said (despite saying otherwise) there is still some shame there. Perhaps you need to work out some of the issues. I know it is not easy. It never is for any of us, but we learn to accept and even embrace our sexuality as we get older.

[Graeme]

I've never totally liked being gay. It's not to say I'm ashamed of it, I'm just not proud of it, and don't find it too important. I really don't like the connotation of being gay, and I'm glad don't fit nearly any of the gay stereotypes I've heard (well, I heard listening to classical music was a stereotype, but I think that stereotype has no basis at all: how is that a gay thing?).

 

Anyway, if there's anything I do find good about it, it's the fact I don't have to deal with women unless I absolutely have to. I want meaningful relationships

[AFriendlyFace]

I think I have to disagree with Tiger.

LOL, I think I have to disagree with Graeme!

 

Being gay is just one aspect of a person.

Well you're right, but it sounds to me like Jonnie might also have a ways to go on his quest (no shame in that, nearly everyone does ). For example what I took from it was that in many ways he was being counter-gay culture, and doing his best to avoid stereotypes. While it isn't healthy and meritorious (in my opinion) to say "oh look I'm gay" and then rush out and start acting as stereotypically 'gay' as you can, it similarly isn't healthy and meritorious (again just in my opinion) to actively resist everything you can. It is my belief that people are best off just being themselves and if they fit stereotypes, great, and if they don't, great. Personally speaking I fit quite a few and I don't fit quite a few, and I have a wide range of degrees to which I either embody or disprove them.

 

It should not be the defining attribute (unless you're looking at a career as a gay activist or gay porn star).

Ah, well as it turns out I am considering a career in this field.

 

(I could leave it scandalous and open to speculation, but I'll clarify that I mean a career as a gay activist not as as a porn star )

 

I heard someone say once that they didn't like Gay Pride because it was the flip side of Gay Shame. They consider being gay something that requires neither pride nor shame. It just is, just like I'm male and white.

I definitely do agree with that; however, your being male and white IS a pretty darn major aspect of who you are. It's unfortunate that is, personally I think gender and race (and obviously sexuality) should be completely irrelevant. But they are NOT. Society will not let them be. You are treated and (whether it's pleasant to admit or not - I hate admitting personally) act completely different because you are male and white. I definitely bemoan this fact, but it's inescapable in today's world. I agree that being gay or straight is no more significant than being male or white, but race and gender are pretty darn significant and so is orientation. It sucks, I wish all three were societally irreverent - and definitely personally irrelevant - but they are not.

 

As I said, I can't stand admitting that I do and don't do certain things because I'm male and not female. I can't stand realizing that people look at me and make certain assumptions about me because I'm white. I can't stand knowing that my sexuality does influence my world view. I try very hard to completely blend gender, racial, and orientation lines. I try very hard not to give such things consideration and to conduct myself in whatever manner feels most natural to me. However, I can't deny the relevance these things do hold in my life, and I dare say that for quite a few other people who haven't given them as much thought and merely behave as they've been socialized to do, they probably hold even more significance.

 

Jonnie is essentially saying he's a homosexual, not gay. The difference between the two terms, for him, is that gay has connotations (because of the stereotypes) that don't apply to him, and hence he has trouble accepting that label as being appropriate for him. I can understand that. I personally don't share his sense of connotation with the word, but I appreciate he does,

The way I understand and interpret the difference between 'homosexual' and 'gay', is that all gays are homosexual, but not all homosexuals are gay. Being 'homosexual' only relates to one's sexuality, being gay includes sexuality but incorporates a whole range of other cultural, historical, and social phenomena.

 

It has been my experience and is my opinion that typically an individual who is 'gay' feels better about their sexuality, and is healthier and better adjusted (physically, emotionally, and spiritually), than an individual who is only 'homosexual'. As I said, this is just my opinion and this is just my opinion generally and overall not in every instance.

 

For me the word 'homosexual' holds more negative connotations than the word 'gay'. I'm very unlikely to refer to myself as a 'homosexual' unless I'm having a very scientific discussion. In every day conversation, and certainly in a conversation related to any other discipline besides science I would always refer to myself as 'gay' instead.

 

Actually, while we're on this topic, it's interesting to ponder if, according to the structure I've discussed above, all 'gay' people do have to be 'homosexual'. Can a straight or bisexual person be 'symbolically gay'? My answer would be 'yes and no' and to some extent, but not completely. In many ways I could consider myself a 'symbolic lesbian' and perhaps even a 'symbolic bisexual', because I have a great deal of support and interaction with the communities and I know a great deal about their issues, history, and culture; however, I definitely don't think I can experience lesbianism and bisexuality to the same fullness of extent that a natural lesbian or bisexual can.

 

and since we're talking about a label he's applying to himself, if he doesn't like the word, then that's fine.

I wholeheartedly agree here!

 

One should always have the prerogative of labeling (or not labeling) one's self however one sees fit!

 

 

 

I enjoyed that!

 

Take care all,

Kevin

[Daisy]

It has been my experience and is my opinion that typically an individual who is 'gay' feels better about their sexuality, and is healthier and better adjusted (physically, emotionally, and spiritually), than an individual who is only 'homosexual'. As I said, this is just my opinion and this is just my opinion generally and overall not in every instance.

 

For me the word 'homosexual' holds more negative connotations than the word 'gay'. I'm very unlikely to refer to myself as a 'homosexual' unless I'm having a very scientific discussion. In every day conversation, and certainly in a conversation related to any other discipline besides science I would always refer to myself as 'gay' instead.

 

Actually, while we're on this topic, it's interesting to ponder if, according to the structure I've discussed above, all 'gay' people do have to be 'homosexual'. Can a straight or bisexual person be 'symbolically gay'? My answer would be 'yes and no' and to some extent, but not completely. In many ways I could consider myself a 'symbolic lesbian' and perhaps even a 'symbolic bisexual', because I have a great deal of support and interaction with the communities and I know a great deal about their issues, history, and culture; however, I definitely don't think I can experience lesbianism and bisexuality to the same fullness of extent that a natural lesbian or bisexual can.

Kevin

 

In the UK, 'homosexual' isnt really used anymore. Its only really used I think in stuffy formal references and by older people. I can see how there could be a difference in definition. But gay to me sounds/seems nicer. So I think while 'gay' can refer to the culture as you said, it doesnt completely, or even in alot of circumstances at all. I'm sure that for most though, no-matter how used to the idea that a gay person can be any type of person, they may still link (subconciously) some associations with the word that aren't true or real in every sense. It depends on who is using the word and what context as to what the wor 'gay' signifies, culture or general sexual orientation. Some of the old people who don't use the word gay (well, some are homophobic) because they say they don't like how a word they grew up with has been hijacked to mean something else .

 

I definitley don't think you can experience lesbianism, in the sense that its from women. But this is about identity, or at least what I think you are referring to. So if you feel you identify with them and all that is associated then of course you can be identified as part of their group, under their label, but not actually in the physical sense.

 

Celia

Edited June 15, 2008 by Smarties

[Tiger]

Graeme, in all due respect, I do have the impression that there's some shame there. These are emotions I have felt, and I know that it's hard to accept. I personally do not use gay as a political label. I use it to describe my sexual preference. I do believe I have adequately described my feelings about gay pride parades in that thread about them, but I will say that I don't fit into such stereotypes simply because I happen to be gay.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Tiger

[old bob]

Well, I was thinking today that being gay was probably the best thing that ever happened to me...so I thought this was an appropriate place to share that

Kevin, you are an "incorrigible" optimist . First I thought just to say here "I agree 100% with you". Then I looked back my about 65 years memories (I was 14 when I made my first "gay" experiences) and it seems to me that I have to explain a little more. I'm bi that means I have the advantage to compare my both sides, gay and straight. The feelings of Love and Lust can have the same strength on both sides; it depends only of whom you have before you. It's like a game the hazard (or the destiny) plays with you. I played a lot and I won each time. I would never change my fate and I'm grateful to be how I am.

It was not always an easy path, I had to "organize" my life to make myself understood by the people around me, but I was accepted as I accepted myself . From the beginning, it was my choice and I'm proud of it.

Old Bob

[AFriendlyFace]

Kevin, you are an "incorrigible" optimist . First I thought just to say here "I agree 100% with you". Then I looked back my about 65 years memories (I was 14 when I made my first "gay" experiences) and it seems to me that I have to explain a little more. I'm bi that means I have the advantage to compare my both sides, gay and straight. The feelings of Love and Lust can have the same strength on both sides; it depends only of whom you have before you. It's like a game the hazard (or the destiny) plays with you. I played a lot and I won each time. I would never change my fate and I'm grateful to be how I am.

It was not always an easy path, I had to "organize" my life to make myself understood by the people around me, but I was accepted as I accepted myself . From the beginning, it was my choice and I'm proud of it.

Old Bob

Well done, Old Bob!

 

I'm happy for you! It is indeed wonderful to be 'lucky in love'. I think it's something most people desire very much! Looking back over the Love and Lust relationships/encounters I've had over my life, I don't regret any of them either, so I suppose I've 'been lucky'. On the other hand, I have not found enduring (romantic) love...but then I'm not sure I've even been looking for it *shrug*. So I guess I've been lucky in love, but I could stand to be luckier

[GaryK]

Well done, Old Bob!

 

I'm happy for you! It is indeed wonderful to be 'lucky in love'. I think it's something most people desire very much! Looking back over the Love and Lust relationships/encounters I've had over my life, I don't regret any of them either, so I suppose I've 'been lucky'. On the other hand, I have not found enduring (romantic) love...but then I'm not sure I've even been looking for it *shrug*. So I guess I've been lucky in love, but I could stand to be luckier

Hey Bob! Don't you just love it when these youngsters use phrases like the one I bolded?

 

Sorry Kev. I you, but I couldn't let that line go without some sort of comment.

[AFriendlyFace]

Hey Bob! Don't you just love it when these youngsters use phrases like the one I bolded?

 

Sorry Kev. I you, but I couldn't let that line go without some sort of comment.

LOL, well I have had experiences over the course of my life. I should hope there will be others, but regardless I'm still in a position to evaluate the ones in the past.

[old bob]

LOL, well I have had experiences over the course of my life. I should hope there will be others, but regardless I'm still in a position to evaluate the ones in the past.

Hi Gary and Kevin

Never heard anything about reincarnation ?

Kevin's soul could be much older as you think. Its just that he doesn't remember his former other lifes , but his inconscious does.To find out, he should be hypnotized .

Old bob

[GaryK]

Good points Bob.

 

Hmm. In a past life maybe Kevin was straight, a lesbian, or a goat.

 

I do believe in reincarnation as the ultimate form of recycling. Here are two lines, taken slightly out of context, from one of my favorite songs:

 

I am made from the dust of the stars

and the oceans flow in my veins

 

OK, time for a serious question Bob:

 

Is there any empirical evidence to suggest that our former lives play any part in shaping our current life?

 

[Moderators: I know this is off-topic so maybe it would make sense to split it into a new thread about reincarnation.]

[Jonnie]

Jeez, if anything, I thought the last line of my post would have sparked a discussion.

 

Jonnie is essentially saying he's a homosexual, not gay. The difference between the two terms, for him, is that gay has connotations (because of the stereotypes) that don't apply to him, and hence he has trouble accepting that label as being appropriate for him. I can understand that. I personally don't share his sense of connotation with the word, but I appreciate he does, and since we're talking about a label he's applying to himself, if he doesn't like the word, then that's fine.

 

For example what I took from it was that in many ways he was being counter-gay culture, and doing his best to avoid stereotypes. While it isn't healthy and meritorious (in my opinion) to say "oh look I'm gay" and then rush out and start acting as stereotypically 'gay' as you can, it similarly isn't healthy and meritorious (again just in my opinion) to actively resist everything you can. It is my belief that people are best off just being themselves and if they fit stereotypes, great, and if they don't, great.

 

Graeme, I think you've hit the nail on the head in your post.

 

I'm not ashamed, I just don't fit stereotypes. Which by the way, I never try to not fit them, I don't fit by being myself, because I am a unique—and as I've been told on many an occasion—weird person. So, no shame, just a deep resentment towards gay stereotypes. Actually, I don't fit a lot of stereotypes for being a guy, and I find a lot of them (both gay and guy) to be offensive. So I'm just glad I don't fit them, and I think that too many people think, "Well, he's gay, so he's gotta do such and such a thing," even if it's not so direct.

 

Actually, in effect, I could guess you could say I'm ashamed of gay culture or something like that. But being a homosexual? No.

[Benji]

Jeez, if anything, I thought the last line of my post would have sparked a discussion.

 

Actually, in effect, I could guess you could say I'm ashamed of gay culture or something like that. But being a homosexual? No.

 

 

.......Well, that was refreshing, interesting remark about the asexual pill too! Jonnie, Popeye said "I yam what I yam"

Edited June 16, 2008 by Benji

[GaryK]

.......Well, that was refreshing, interesting remark about the asexual pill too! Jonnie, Popeye said "I yam what I yam"

Ugh. A pill to make me asexual? I think I'll take a pass on that one.

 

I am curious why you feel that way Jonnie. Is being homosexual really that bad for you?

[Jonnie]

I said I'd "think about it." I find the idea of having sex is not appealing to me at all, and so I think that being free of any sexual attraction might be liberating. Might be. Mainly it's just much more likely I'd want to be asexual than straight.

[GaryK]

I said I'd "think about it." I find the idea of having sex is not appealing to me at all, and so I think that being free of any sexual attraction might be liberating. Might be. Mainly it's just much more likely I'd want to be asexual than straight.

Would it be too personal to ask why you find the idea of sex unappealing? Please don't misunderstand my intentions. I'm merely curious, not making any sort of judgment.