(Married) with Children...?

[Procyon]

Marriage was mentioned as a way of passing on genes in another thread (the one called 'breaking up', somewhat paradoxically), and that made me wonder if you've been thinking of having kids, and how. Of course we all know that marriage doesn't mean kids, just as kids don't mean marriage. But how *should* one try to get kids -- if one wants them?

[Jack Frost]

Real-blood children.

 

Don't ask me how I could do it. It could be by old-fashioned way or in the lab.

[GaryK]

I'll be adopting a son later this year. He was supposed to be my foster child a couple of years ago but got yanked away from me at the last minute. He's gonna come live with me when the state kicks him out of foster care at 18.

[Meeko]

I'll be adopting a son later this year. He was supposed to be my foster child a couple of years ago but got yanked away from me at the last minute. He's gonna come live with me when the state kicks him out of foster care at 18.

 

Honestly I want a blood son, it's something I've always wanted, a son or daughter of my own, not quite sure how that's going to happen though.

[GaryK]

Honestly I want a blood son, it's something I've always wanted, a son or daughter of my own, not quite sure how that's going to happen though.

I can certainly understand that and it's admirable. In my case I was adopted so I don't feel as strong a need for a blood-son. To me family is about more than blood.

[Graeme]

Children are a responsibility and an obligation. One thing that can be said about same-sex couples -- if they have children it is almost always because they've thought long and hard about it (the main exception is when one partner had children prior to the start of the relationship).

 

I couldn't live without my two boys -- and that's not quite an exaggeration. If something happened to them, I wouldn't be surprised if I became suicidal. They mean that much to me. They can be aggravating, annoying and awfully antagonistic at times, but I still love them and want them to have happy lives. So, I understand those who wish to have children of their own.

 

As for how to get them, a lot depends on the importance that's placed on a genetic link to the child. Gary is correct in that it is not as important as people may think. Once you become responsible for a child, that is what's important. Not whose sperm or whose eggs was involved in the initial act. One of my sisters has two children. Only one is the biological child of her husband. The other was born through IVF using donor sperm (the second was born after advances in IVF technology made it possible to use her husband's sperm). You can't tell that by looking at the family, though -- he loves the elder child just as much as the younger.

 

Since I went the 'natural' route for my two boys, and I'm not looking to have any others, I'm not really in a position to say how I would go about it if I was in a same-sex relationship. I suspect I would start by fostering (legal for same sex couples here in Victoria), and then try adopting (currently not possible for same-sex couples here, but the law is hopefully going to be changed soon). The other options are much more complicated, both emotionally and legally. As an example, I don't think I could force a mother to give her child to me to raise, even if that was the agreement ahead of time. eg. If she changed her mind and decided to keep the child after she had become pregnant with my sperm. A child should never be a prize in a tug-of-war between adults. I would prefer to 'lose' than to subject a child to that.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Graeme

[AFriendlyFace]

I'll be adopting a son later this year. He was supposed to be my foster child a couple of years ago but got yanked away from me at the last minute. He's gonna come live with me when the state kicks him out of foster care at 18.

Oh my gosh, Gary! That's wonderful! Congrats!

 

I can certainly understand that and it's admirable. In my case I was adopted so I don't feel as strong a need for a blood-son. To me family is about more than blood.

That's how I feel. Having the child be genetically mine, despite the fact that I think I've got good genes, is really low on my list of priorities.

 

I definitely want kids, so I suppose that's one option, but the most likely would probably be adoption. Ideally it would be nice to have the child/children with a partner, but it isn't obligatory to me. I'm thinking when I feel 'ready' regardless of my relationship status (unless I'm in a serious relationship with someone that wants them but wants to wait) I'll do whatever is necessary to begin adoption proceedings. I'm rather counting on it being legal for gay people to adopt by then, but if not I'd be willing to leave the country (don't really expect to live here all my life anyway), or at least adopt from another country (the ethnicity and race of the child are equally unimportant to me).

 

Another option I would have, but would feel guilty utilizing, is a surrogate mother. I have a couple of close female friends who've offered (unprompted, they just know how much it means to me). So that's another possibility too.

 

I suppose in a weird, everything works out, movie sorta way it would be very ideal if I did have a partner and we made an arrangement with a lesbian couple (again I'm close with several) for each couple to have 2 kids (4 total) and then each family unit would have a biological child by each of the two parents. Continuing this lovely little fairy tale we'd live near each other and remain involved in the other kids' lives as well.

 

But yeah, I don't need the fairytale. I'm an independent person; one way or another I'll handle it on my own. (Assuming my health and economic status are adequate when I decide it's the right time. I personally wouldn't want to purposely bring a child into a situation of having a parent - especially a single parent - who wasn't healthy or financially stable enough to take proper care of him/her.)

 

I also want two kids ideally, but am willing to have as few as one or as many as three. I want at least one and failing some sort of twin situation or a death which results in my guardianship I'll stop at three for sure (and probably only go up to three if my partner wants more than two. If I'm a single parent I'll probably stop at one.).

 

As an example, I don't think I could force a mother to give her child to me to raise, even if that was the agreement ahead of time. eg. If she changed her mind and decided to keep the child after she had become pregnant with my sperm. A child should never be a prize in a tug-of-war between adults. I would prefer to 'lose' than to subject a child to that.

Right, I agree. That's why I said I'd be hesitant to utilize the surrogate mother option.

 

Good thread, Procyon

 

Take care all,

Kevin

[BeaStKid]

If I marry a woman, I'd love to have kids of my own. I mean, I simply adore them. There si something about the pitter patter of little feet inside the house that warms up my heart.

 

Though, if I settle down with a man, I would definitely adopt. I would love to give a home to a child who needs one.

 

Most probably, even if the former happens, I will adopt a child. I see too many children out there who could use some help, even though I may offer it to just one of them.

 

BeaStKid

[Bandage]

Well, since I'm still a big child myself, I don't really feel the need to have children, lol!

 

I did decide however that I'd only want children when I have a steady partner, and he's ok with that/asking for it. The main reason I'm a bit withholding is that I'm afraid my child('ren) would be labeled as being gay, whie they're not, or they would be made fun off, because they have 2 daddies... :wacko:

 

 

I'll be adopting a son later this year. He was supposed to be my foster child a couple of years ago but got yanked away from me at the last minute. He's gonna come live with me when the state kicks him out of foster care at 18.

 

Awww That's sooo sweet!!

But why did he go to a foster care if you were willing to be a foster parent?

 

I suppose in a weird, everything works out, movie sorta way it would be very ideal if I did have a partner and we made an arrangement with a lesbian couple (again I'm close with several) for each couple to have 2 kids (4 total) and then each family unit would have a biological child by each of the two parents. Continuing this lovely little fairy tale we'd live near each other and remain involved in the other kids' lives as well.

 

But yeah, I don't need the fairytale. I'm an independent person; one way or another I'll handle it on my own. (Assuming my health and economic status are adequate when I decide it's the right time. I personally wouldn't want to purposely bring a child into a situation of having a parent - especially a single parent - who wasn't healthy or financially stable enough to take proper care of him/her.)

 

A fairytale indeed! Would be nice, but I don't think many women want to give their child away like that... I mean, they can say they'd do it for you, but in the end... :wacko:

 

Nice topic, Procyon! I'd love to see what the others will write

 

Cheers

 

Niels

[Krista]

For me I want to have at least one child who is linked genetically to me, which is problematic since I cannot physically carry children so I'd have to go the surrogate mother route in order for that to happen, I'd have to "borrow" someone's uterus. I feel strongly about adopting as well two of my younger brothers and sisters are adopted so I want to adopt as well.

 

I want to be married before I have children.

[old bob]

If I remember well, somebody allready asked the same question in another thread (?). I didn't need to ask myself this question . As some of you know, I'm bi and my girlfriend got pregnant (it was 57 years ago, condoms were not so easy to get, and calendar-based methods like the Knaus-Ogino Method often failed ! ). But after the first schock, we were both happy, it was a proof that we were "in love". So we went on and you allready know the rest of the story from my blogs (4 children, 6 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren). I couldn't imagine my life without kids .

Adopted or blood, it doesn't matter. The only main point : you must be aware of the responsability to raise kids. It's always a challenge, but the "return of investment" is worthwhile.

old Bob

[AFriendlyFace]

Most probably, even if the former happens, I will adopt a child. I see too many children out there who could use some help, even though I may offer it to just one of them.

Awww, that's sweet

 

Well, since I'm still a big child myself, I don't really feel the need to have children, lol!

 

I did decide however that I'd only want children when I have a steady partner, and he's ok with that/asking for it. The main reason I'm a bit withholding is that I'm afraid my child('ren) would be labeled as being gay, whie they're not, or they would be made fun off, because they have 2 daddies... :wacko:

There is that to consider. Personally I'd only raise my kids in as liberal, accepting an environment as possible, and get them into a private school or something where, hopefully things would be as rough. Apart from which I don't expect this to happen for a good ten years (plus 5 more or so before the oldest would be ready to start school), so hopefully things will get even more accepting and stuff by then.

 

 

 

For me I want to have at least one child who is linked genetically to me, which is problematic since I cannot physically carry children so I'd have to go the surrogate mother route in order for that to happen, I'd have to "borrow" someone's uterus. I feel strongly about adopting as well two of my younger brothers and sisters are adopted so I want to adopt as well.

 

Good luck

 

If I remember well, somebody allready asked the same question in another thread (?). I didn't need to ask myself this question . As some of you know, I'm bi and my girlfriend got pregnant (it was 57 years ago, condoms were not so easy to get, and calendar-based methods like the Knaus-Ogino Method often failed ! ). But after the first schock, we were both happy, it was a proof that we were "in love". So we went on and you allready know the rest of the story from my blogs (4 children, 6 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren). I couldn't imagine my life without kids .

Adopted or blood, it doesn't matter. The only main point : you must be aware of the responsability to raise kids. It's always a challenge, but the "return of investment" is worthwhile.

old Bob

Awww, yay!

 

Well said, Old Bob

[Rakuten06]

If I were to have children, I would prefer to wait for a while until I got settled down with a partner in the future and if we have an agreement that financial costs would support us and the children we want, I would prefer to have a child with my blood because I suspected that I'm the last male of the family clan, so I would prefer to keep the line going with real-blood, not adopting or anything...

[old bob]

Awww, yay!

Well said, Old Bob

Hi Kevin,

Usually you are more prolix !

What happened ?

Your "Muse" is on holidays ?

(teasing is the pleasure of old men who can't think well anymore) .

Edited June 11, 2008 by old bob

[GaryK]

Awww That's sooo sweet!!

But why did he go to a foster care if you were willing to be a foster parent?

Let me try to offer the condensed version so I don't go too far off-topic. Kris was already in foster care when I met him. I was already approved to be a foster parent. We got along great and he wanted me to be his new father. I let foster care know I was willing to adopt him after the required one year of foster care. At the last minute the state replaced him with someone else that I refused. After a few months Kris contacted me via e-mail; I had given him my business card. He wanted to run away and come live with me. I told him I still loved him, but he had to tough it out where he was until he turned 18 and the state kicked him out of the foster care system, at which point I'd make sure he could get here where I could take care of him and get him off to a good start in life. There is so much more to the story, but I gave you just the essential details.

 

[...]I'm the last male of the family clan, so I would prefer to keep the line going with real-blood, not adopting or anything...

I'm in sort of the same situation. I'm the last male of the family. I do have a sister. Nevertheless, I used to feel sad that the family name would die with me. It took me awhile to accept that names are just names. My sister has two sons--I love my nephews as if they were my own kids--who will keep the family alive. Even though the family name will be different they'll still keep the family itself alive. I guess when you're gay sometimes you have to be willing to make some compromises with yourself about things like this. I've learned to be happy the family will live on via my nephews and their progeny.

[Bandage]

Let me try to offer the condensed version so I don't go too far off-topic. Kris was already in foster care when I met him. I was already approved to be a foster parent. We got along great and he wanted me to be his new father. I let foster care know I was willing to adopt him after the required one year of foster care. At the last minute the state replaced him with someone else that I refused. After a few months Kris contacted me via e-mail; I had given him my business card. He wanted to run away and come live with me. I told him I still loved him, but he had to tough it out where he was until he turned 18 and the state kicked him out of the foster care system, at which point I'd make sure he could get here where I could take care of him and get him off to a good start in life. There is so much more to the story, but I gave you just the essential details.

 

 

I still don't grasp why they put him with someone else :wacko: If you were both eager to live together, why separate you guys then??

Strange system in America, that much I can tell, LOL

 

It's neat that he'll soon come live with you though!

[Demetz]

Ideally a female friend would be willing to bear my child in exchange for me covering the medical costs.

 

Realistically, when I can afford it, I'm probably going to pay some indian lady (as in a woman from India) to bare a child for me.

[Tiger]

I want one or two children and in any way possible. Marriage to a woman is unlikely. However, I don't necessarily need invitro.

[GaryK]

I still don't grasp why they put him with someone else

The state knows I'm gay and also that Kris is gay. I suspect, but cannot prove, there was some discrimination involved. Let's just leave it at that please!

[scoopny]

I'd probably adopt, I mean if the circumstances were right and it was feasible, maybe I'd have a "genetically" similar to me child, but as Friendly said, it's not high on my list of proirities when it comes to having a child. I'm not worried about my family name "dying" with me though, I have the second most common last name in the United States, it's not like anyone would notice if there was one less of us.

[scoopny]

The state knows I'm gay and also that Kris is gay. I suspect, but cannot prove, there was some discrimination involved. Let's just leave it at that please!

 

Unfortunately in Florida, state law can ban gay men and women from adopting a child or prevent them from being foster parents. The law isn't always evenly applied, but it hangs over everything. .

Edited June 11, 2008 by scoopny

[GaryK]

Unfortunately in Florida, state law can ban gay men and women from adopting a child or prevent them from being foster parents. The law isn't always evenly applied, but it hangs over everything. .

That's what I meant about suspecting it was discrimination but couldn't prove it.

 

Since I lost Kris the first time around I've lined up the best lawyers in Florida when it comes to atypical adoption cases. So long as it's what Kris wants I will spare no expense to make sure I can adopt him, and will stop at nothing to back judges into a legal corner until they have no choice but to let the adoption proceed.

 

This is worthy of a thread of its own so I'll stop before I start the angry rant I was about to embark upon and let the thread get back on-topic.

[scoopny]

That's what I meant about suspecting it was discrimination but couldn't prove it.

 

Since I lost Kris the first time around I've lined up the best lawyers in Florida when it comes to atypical adoption cases. So long as it's what Kris wants I will spare no expense to make sure I can adopt him, and will stop at nothing to back judges into a legal corner until they have no choice but to let the adoption proceed.

 

This is worthy of a thread of its own so I'll stop before I start the angry rant I was about to embark upon and let the thread get back on-topic.

 

I would suggest you contact Lambda Legal's helpline at 1-866-542-8336, they should be able to refer you to attorneys in the area who may be able to help.

[GaryK]

I would suggest you contact Lambda Legal's helpline at 1-866-542-8336, they should be able to refer you to attorneys in the area who may be able to help.

Thanks Paul. I'm very confident in the team I've assembled, but I'll take additional help from wherever I can get it. If you knew more about my background and especially more about my father you'd understand why I'm so confident in the team I've put together. PM me if you want details.

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi Kevin,

Usually you are more prolix !

What happened ?

Your "Muse" is on holidays ?

Yep, she ran off and left me with only a handful of one and two syllable (except for that one) words until she gets back

 

 

Thus, to my readers out there, expect Aaron to speak alot of Cavemanese in the next chapter

 

I would prefer to have a child with my blood because I suspected that I'm the last male of the family clan

 

I'm in sort of the same situation. I'm the last male of the family.

As am I! It must be a an ironic joke of mother nature's to throw out gay boys when a family/blood line is about to end

 

The state knows I'm gay and also that Kris is gay. I suspect, but cannot prove, there was some discrimination involved. Let's just leave it at that please!

Personally speaking I think a gay child is slightly better off being raised with gay adoptive/foster parents (assuming these parents are safe, respectable, competent individuals, but then one hopes this about ALL adoptive/foster parents).

 

I know that may be a controversial statement, and I in no way mean to imply that straight adoptive/foster parents couldn't do an excellent job raising a gay child as well, and of course in an ideal world there would be no need for adoptive/foster parents in the first place and everyone would live happily ever after regardless of parent or child's orientation, but of course we don't live in that world, and I do think that, on average (as I said, not barring exceptional straight parents by any means or assuming any gay jerk would do well), a gay foster/adoptive parent might have extra skills, insights, and experiences that would benefit a gay child.

 

Personally speaking while I'll love and be happy with any child, I would like to have a gay or lesbian one. If it's possible for me to purposely adopt one I probably will.

 

That's what I meant about suspecting it was discrimination but couldn't prove it.

 

Since I lost Kris the first time around I've lined up the best lawyers in Florida when it comes to atypical adoption cases. So long as it's what Kris wants I will spare no expense to make sure I can adopt him, and will stop at nothing to back judges into a legal corner until they have no choice but to let the adoption proceed.

 

This is worthy of a thread of its own so I'll stop before I start the angry rant I was about to embark upon and let the thread get back on-topic.

Well I don't think this question is off-topic since it deals with adoptions laws. Why would need to adopt him after he turns 18? Just for various legal reasons regarding estate, inheritance, and/or next of kin? I was only vaguely aware that it was even possible to adopt someone of majority age (I think I knew that, but I could have been convinced otherwise pretty easily).

 

Forgive my ignorance, but adoption laws aren't my area of knowledge at all.

 

 

Take care all and have a great day

Kevin