Homophobia

[Phantom]

I was thinking recently on what homophobia means to different people, no matter who you are. What I mean is, what do you think defines it?

 

To me homophobia is something that is very complex. To me, homophobia is an instance where someone harms you just because you are a homosexual.

 

Simple no?

 

Well, my friend Adam says otherwise. He thinks that any one who fights against gay rights or thinks wrongly of gay people is homophobic.

 

So that got me thinking and well, I wanted to get your guys input. Just please keep things nice and friendly, don't harass others for their opinion, but have a friendly discussion

 

Eric

[JamesSavik]

Getting kicked in the head is a clue.

 

But seriously folks... homophobia doesn't always manifest itself in violence.

 

It's the manager that says you have an attitude problem. It's the cop who pulls you over and searches your car every time you see them. It's the classmates that shut you out. It's the teammates that take cheap shots at your knees.

 

Overt homophobia can be dangerous and deadly. That is the snake you see.

 

It's the snake in the grass that can really hurt you.

[Benji]

Getting kicked in the head is a clue.

 

But seriously folks... homophobia doesn't always manifest itself in violence.

 

It's the manager that says you have an attitude problem. It's the cop who pulls you over and searches your car every time you see them. It's the classmates that shut you out. It's the teammates that take cheap shots at your knees.

 

Overt homophobia can be dangerous and deadly. That is the snake you see.

 

It's the snake in the grass that can really hurt you.

.............I couldn't agree more with you! I will add Rep. Sally Kern as a poster child.

[W_L]

An interesting topic,

 

I agree homophobia is more than just direct action; it can be overt or subversive anti-homosexual actions.

 

However, let me posit another issue that I am thinking about: Can we lump openly gay people as homophobic for certain actions they do?

 

Some gay guys have certain fears of the Feminine model of homosexual men that they are extremely antagonistic against that sub-group within our own community.

[Phantom]

An interesting topic,

 

I agree homophobia is more than just direct action; it can be overt or subversive anti-homosexual actions.

 

However, let me posit another issue that I am thinking about: Can we lump openly gay people as homophobic for certain actions they do?

 

Some gay guys have certain fears of the Feminine model of homosexual men that they are extremely antagonistic against that sub-group within our own community.

Thats my question as well... technically you can consider me homophobic for some of the jokes and comments that I make in fun with my other gay friends, which in turn makes them homophobic (technically speaking). But I know i'm not, just because of the way I feel about harassment and such, but at the same time there are others who would consider me homophobic.

 

Thus is my quandary (and yes Adam doesn't consider me homophobic but at the same time his definition makes me one so bleh).

[LongGone]

Thats my question as well... technically you can consider me homophobic for some of the jokes and comments that I make in fun with my other gay friends, which in turn makes them homophobic (technically speaking). But I know i'm not, just because of the way I feel about harassment and such, but at the same time there are others who would consider me homophobic.

 

Thus is my quandary (and yes Adam doesn't consider me homophobic but at the same time his definition makes me one so bleh).

I get what you're saying. Hell, I've told a few gay jokes because, well, dammit, some of them are FUNNY. But I am supportive of Gay rights. I'm not sure a gay person CAN be a homophobe but maybe so because you can hate yourself.

[JamesSavik]

Actually- gay people can be extremely homophobic under some circumstances. Usually because of religion or culture.

 

Like Ted Haggard preaching about the evils of homosexuality while getting blasted on crystal and going down on a gay prostitute or Senator "Wide_Stance" Craig who has voted against every possible measure that might advance gay rights and gets on his knees in air port mens rooms.

 

The internalized homophobia of these people harms us all.

[old bob]

Going to the essential, the definition of homophobia in Wiki is enough clear to understand the meaning of the word :

"Homophobia is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality, homosexuals,or individuals perceived as homosexual. Some definitions lack the "irrational" component. Homophobic is the adjective form of this term used to describe the qualities of these characteristics, while homophobe is the noun form given as a title to individuals labeled with homophobic characteristics. The term "internalized homophobia" is used to describe a prejudice against one's own homosexuality."

The important point in this definition is the words "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination..". Making a joke about gays has nothing to do with homophobia.

"internalized homophobia" exists as well, it leads often to suicide. It's our duty to fight against it, to talk about it and to help everywhere when you suspect somebody around you suffering of it. The difficulty is that these people are often aggressive against gays !

A lot of stories in GA show good examples how to help hidden gays to accept themselves.

[clumber]

Homophobia is fearing or hating gay people.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Any of the actions that people have mentioned such as violent attacks or attempts to discriminate against gay people are actions caused by homophobia. There is a difference between cause and effect.

 

 

Martin

[Benji]

Going to the essential, the definition of homophobia in Wiki is enough clear to understand the meaning of the word :

"Homophobia is an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality, homosexuals,or individuals perceived as homosexual. Some definitions lack the "irrational" component. Homophobic is the adjective form of this term used to describe the qualities of these characteristics, while homophobe is the noun form given as a title to individuals labeled with homophobic characteristics. The term "internalized homophobia" is used to describe a prejudice against one's own homosexuality."

The important point in this definition is the words "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination..". Making a joke about gays has nothing to do with homophobia.

"internalized homophobia" exists as well, it leads often to suicide. It's our duty to fight against it, to talk about it and to help everywhere when you suspect somebody around you suffering of it. The difficulty is that these people are often aggressive against gays !

A lot of stories in GA show good examples how to help hidden gays to accept themselves.

...........Excellent points 'Old Bob' I can't wonder that equation to our (US) treatment of black people before the civil rights movement. The fear of blacks raping our young women in the streets mentality, it seems to have evaporated for the most part in society. So where does Homophobia stand? It really can't, it is 'irrational' in thought, I can equate the former fears of the blacks produced upon the whites perception. To today's 'Homophobia bias' the latter a product of religious persecution, sound familiar?

[myself_i_must_remake]

yeah come to think of it, the person whose homophobia plagues me worst is me.

 

we're talking about the "phobia" part of that word. i really am afraid of most gay people for any number of reasons.

[AFriendlyFace]

However, let me posit another issue that I am thinking about: Can we lump openly gay people as homophobic for certain actions they do?

Some gay guys have certain fears of the Feminine model of homosexual men that they are extremely antagonistic against that sub-group within our own community.

Yes, that sort of homophobia really annoys the hell out of me as well.

 

I get what you're saying. Hell, I've told a few gay jokes because, well, dammit, some of them are FUNNY. But I am supportive of Gay rights. I'm not sure a gay person CAN be a homophobe but maybe so because you can hate yourself.

It's my opinion that some of the 'worst' homophobes are the maladjusted gay people. I say this because while I'm certainly not in favour of anyone being homophobic I think a lot of homophobic straight people don't cause that much damage to themselves or others. Of course a lot of them do, but I think very often someone can be homophobic and think homophobic thoughts without really acting on them or taking any initiative to hinder the rights of gay people. On the other hand, a gay person who is homophobic is going to be causing themselves a lot of major harm and considering that there's a good chance they are regularly interacting with other gay people they may also be hurting a lot of other people (for example the person with internalized homophobia who keeps needlessly breaking up with and hurting boyfriends).

 

It's also a good bit harder for me to tolerate in gay people. Again, I'm not too thrilled with homophobic straight people, but I can make 'excuses' for them and it doesn't seem quite as personal. I have very little patience with homophobic gay people, especially if they've had ample time and opportunity to deal with their issues.

 

 

 

Just a few of my thoughts

 

-Kevin

[JJFlame]

Homophobia: Harmful treatment of a homosexual that is based solely on his status or perceived status as a homosexual.

 

Let's not forget, some awkward and/or feminine heterosexual males bear a lot of homophobic abuse.

 

 

 

And as for jokes, jokes don't count. I completely accept myself as a gay guy and embrace it, but I enjoy a good gay joke now and then. Self parody is the path to self acceptance, you know.

[rknapp]

Honestly I think the best translation of the word "homophobia" is "the fear of homosexuality". People can fear it for any number of reasons, though I think one of the biggest is they don't understand it. A straight guy doesn't understand how a gay guy can love and make love to other men, since he has only ever loved and made love to women. Gay men, on the other hand, often go through phases in their adolescent development which causes them to love, or try to love, women. Thus, they understand how a man can love a woman and the term "heterophobia" has yet to be coined (I think).

 

How that fear reaches the surface is different for everyone. Some will keep it inside themselves and smile when confronted with that fear, preferring not exacerbate the issue. Unfortunately, many will try to do something about it. Like a person who fears spiders and is confronted by one, they will attempt to eliminate that which is frightening them through violence, or general malevolent actions (Proposition 8 comes to mind, among other unconstitutional laws).

 

But, that's just the ramblings of someone who got four hours of sleep, then washed and waxed his car, and then attended a 12 hours BBQ/Cruise/Birthday party. My head hurts.

[AFriendlyFace]

Honestly I think the best translation of the word "homophobia" is "the fear of homosexuality". People can fear it for any number of reasons, though I think one of the biggest is they don't understand it. A straight guy doesn't understand how a gay guy can love and make love to other men, since he has only ever loved and made love to women. Gay men, on the other hand, often go through phases in their adolescent development which causes them to love, or try to love, women. Thus, they understand how a man can love a woman and the term "heterophobia" has yet to be coined (I think)

I believe the term has been coined. I've personally used it on several occasions and also heard it on television before (Queer As Folk I believe).

[rknapp]

Even so, I bet 99% of the world has never heard it, while most of the world has heard of or experience homophobia.

[Nephylim]

I agree with Lily Allen

[JJFlame]

Homophobia:

Edited June 23, 2009 by JJFlame

[Nephylim]

Either down to my rank stupidity or my apalling eyesight... but... I really can't make out what I'm looking at here

[Benji]

Either down to my rank stupidity or my apalling eyesight... but... I really can't make out what I'm looking at here

..........The stone cross marks the place where Matthew Sheppard was murdered!

Edited June 23, 2009 by Benji

[Nephylim]

..........The stone cross marks the place where Matthew Sheppard was murdered!

 

I'm sorry. I have never seen that photograph or, I am sorry to say, heard of Matthew Sheppard. I have now read up on the whole thing. I am still in tears. Aren't humans such wonderful creatures...? I completely agree with you JJ

[Rilbur]

I'm a bit of a latecomer to this discussion, but I loath the word homophobia.

 

Why? Because it's the wrong word for what most people use it as these days. It's become the 'catch all' word for prejudice directed against homosexuals, rather than simply being afraid of homosexuals / homosexuality (with though strange, is a legitimate fear... much like my deathly, and completely irrational, fear of bees). There are many phobias out there, and a phobia is a psychological, not criminal, issue. Literally, it's 'fear of same', not 'bigotry against same'. And that kind of word mix-up just drives me nuts.

 

Practically speaking, it's become the word used to define prejudice and bigotry against homosexuality. This includes everything from social prejudice (don't get involved with 'those people' to 'go away faggot!) to physical violence (from slamming people up against lockers as you walk by to shooting them in the back of the head execution style).

[Former Member]

I have nothing to say.

 

 

[zland666]

to me i think other people thinks it means they are afraid of gays. which is sad if they really are cause gays are awsome and perfect shopping buddies

[NightOwl88]

Honestly I think the best translation of the word "homophobia" is "the fear of homosexuality". People can fear it for any number of reasons, though I think one of the biggest is they don't understand it. A straight guy doesn't understand how a gay guy can love and make love to other men, since he has only ever loved and made love to women. Gay men, on the other hand, often go through phases in their adolescent development which causes them to love, or try to love, women. Thus, they understand how a man can love a woman and the term "heterophobia" has yet to be coined (I think).

 

How that fear reaches the surface is different for everyone. Some will keep it inside themselves and smile when confronted with that fear, preferring not exacerbate the issue. Unfortunately, many will try to do something about it. Like a person who fears spiders and is confronted by one, they will attempt to eliminate that which is frightening them through violence, or general malevolent actions (Proposition 8 comes to mind, among other unconstitutional laws).

 

But, that's just the ramblings of someone who got four hours of sleep, then washed and waxed his car, and then attended a 12 hours BBQ/Cruise/Birthday party. My head hurts.

 

I think this is one the truest statements I have read. I'm *guilty* of this myself, having been involved with several girls between 14 and 16. Most teenage or adolecent boys WANT to experiment with other guys (for various reasons) but are afraid to for usually one of three reasons, fear of being branded as Gay, fear of physical harm from family (usually a father figure or other male reletive), or fear that they might enjoy it too much (these are the three reasons that I have encountered most).

Now I'm not saying every young guy should hook up with the boy next door just so they can see it from a gay guys perpespective but these are also usually the same three reasons that keeps people from associating with LGBT people until later in life, its during this indetermnate period where we get all of our negative programing against people who are different then us (not just gay people either) and when your that young your mind is very malleable and you tend belive all the negative stereotyping and propaganda about Gay people.

 

This in my opinion is where Homophobia comes from, one generations negative experiance (usually somewhere around 20 or 30 years old) being constantly insisted upon and drilled into a new generation of people even though a repeat of their experiance in todays world is unlikely. It is mankinds nature to fear, attack, and destroy anything that it does not understand.

 

The kind of homophobia I have come up against most in my life is Pedophilliac homophobia. I used to have to keep it hidden when i was teenager that I was gay because it would cost me babysitting jobs because my *clients* would be afraid that I'd molest their little boys and try to turn them gay. I know this sound a little radical but its true. I'm not saying that there are pedo's that prefer boys but to lump us all in to that catagory is unfair and frankly just insulting.

 

to me i think other people thinks it means they are afraid of gays. which is sad if they really are cause gays are awsome and perfect shopping buddies

 

That is SUCH a stereotype, I'm gay and ahve NO fashion sense and I HATE clothes shoping