Duplication

[Nephylim]

This has kind of been prompted by the thread about throwing away old work.

 

I have a story that I never completed. There are parts of it that I am pleased with but I just kind of petered out.

 

There is one particular scene in it that I... well I can't say I enjoyed writing it because is it quite a harrowing scene... but I am quite proud of it. I used the scene... reworked in another story... actually it crops up in the next chapter of To Have and to Hold (shameless plug).

 

The question is... is it okay to keep that scene in the original story, if I ever get to finish it, and put both of them 'out there'. The general storyline is very very different, it's just the one scene that is the same, or at least enough alike to be recognisably similar?

[Graeme]

As an author, you can do anything you like with your own work. However, a reader is almost certainly going to notice the similarity in the two scenes, and that is likely to jar them out of the story. Since you want the readers to be engrossed with what's going on, anything that takes them out of the suspension of disbelief and makes them realise it is a story should be avoided, in my opinion.

 

Sorry, but I would recommend changing the scene so the reader is unlikely to immediately realise the similarities.

[C James]

As an author, you can do anything you like with your own work. However, a reader is almost certainly going to notice the similarity in the two scenes, and that is likely to jar them out of the story. Since you want the readers to be engrossed with what's going on, anything that takes them out of the suspension of disbelief and makes them realise it is a story should be avoided, in my opinion.

 

Sorry, but I would recommend changing the scene so the reader is unlikely to immediately realise the similarities.

 

I agree with Graeme for the circumstances mentioned, but IMHO there can be a legitimate use of scene duplication. In one of my novels, I largely duplicated a scene (though with some changes) set in Rome, from earlier in the novel, of a character walking down a street near the Trevi Fountain. I did it for a reason; the character in the original scene was in the second one, but at that point in the story the readers were not yet aware that he was one and the same with the first character. The duplication was thus a kind of forshadowing, a setup for the reveal a couple of chapters later, and several readers did notice the partial duplication, as I'd intended.

 

CJ

[DragonFire]

I can only agree with what's been said. It would stop me mid sentence if I recognised a segment from another story, and I would hunt it down 'til I found it. Probably not the wisest thing to do for an author jarring a reader mid flow.

If I were you, I would re-write it to such an extent that it's barely recognisable.

[Nephylim]

Wicked!! Thanks everyone. That is pretty much what I thought, but just thought I would get some more perspective. Now you all have to read my stories to see if you can spot the re written scene

[Ashi]

Wicked!! Thanks everyone. That is pretty much what I thought, but just thought I would get some more perspective. Now you all have to read my stories to see if you can spot the re written scene

 

I don't know if this thread is too old to reply. I agree everything everyone has said so far. Repeated scene gives reader a sense of familiarity, and it can be used to your advantage if done right. In music and cinema, it's called leitmotif. They link stuff (usually theme) together.

 

If I were doing a series, I would intentionally repeat scenes, whether it be identical or given from a different perspective. I don't remember the author's name on top of my head (he was a major author from American deep south), but he has a character, General something I don't remember, who would appear in his various independent stories. When his faithful readers found such cameo, they're rewarded. Same concept, whether it's recycled scene or character. I think it's smart and cute. Have you watched a Hitchcock movie in theater? Everyone literally cheered and laughed when the filmmaker walked into the screen. It's so much fun.

[Nephylim]

I don't know if this thread is too old to reply. I agree everything everyone has said so far. Repeated scene gives reader a sense of familiarity, and it can be used to your advantage if done right. In music and cinema, it's called leitmotif. They link stuff (usually theme) together.

 

If I were doing a series, I would intentionally repeat scenes, whether it be identical or given from a different perspective. I don't remember the author's name on top of my head (he was a major author from American deep south), but he has a character, General something I don't remember, who would appear in his various independent stories. When his faithful readers found such cameo, they're rewarded. Same concept, whether it's recycled scene or character. I think it's smart and cute. Have you watched a Hitchcock movie in theater? Everyone literally cheered and laughed when the filmmaker walked into the screen. It's so much fun.

 

 

No thread is too old to reply to if you have something to say.

 

I have heart of leitmotif in things like opera and theatre. THat is intersting. Thanks

[kitten]

Same concept, whether it's recycled scene or character. I think it's smart and cute. Have you watched a Hitchcock movie in theater? Everyone literally cheered and laughed when the filmmaker walked into the screen. It's so much fun.

 

I'm afraid I disagree. Of course, this is just my own personal point of view as a reader and different people enjoy different styles of writing, so maybe others think cloned scenes are 'fun'.

 

I think there is a difference between a walk-on character in a movie or in a story, maybe even with a cloned description, and a whole cloned (i.e identical) scene either in different movies or in different stories. Also, it's not the same as a musical leitmotif because music is different. There are many, many musical works in which a phrase is repeated several times even during the course of that same piece and, because of the nature of music, that is successful. A leitmotif passage in different pieces can also work, but written words are not the same as music.

 

You might get away with a repeated phrase if, for example, it is a character's catch-phrase. However, repeating a whole scene, possibly with several paragraphs, would not only irritate me as a reader but, as a writer I would consider that the author was just being lazy. Of course, the situation is acceptable if the scene (i.e. a series of events and/or dialogue) is from a different POV because then it would have to be re-written to show that the POV was indeed different.

 

Even short phrases or even certain words be irritating if repeated several times in the same paragraph, and it's often a good idea to try to use alternatives. I often consult the Thesaurus on my computer!

 

Kit

[Ashi]

It's nice to have a debate like this, because it presents two sides of the argument. It's her decision now. I've played my part as the devil's advocate. It's nothing personal.

 

I don't mean repeat word for word (though a lot of time, the minor is so minor, it may not be noticeable); that'll just bore the audience.

 

Though in poetry, words and phrases are repeated in succession to gather special attention. I remember my teacher told the class, when some words/phrases are used the second time in poem, it's a signal to the reader the words/phrases are not used literally. It's exactly that jarring emotion we are evoking. Whenever a writer repeat something, the reader is going to ask "Why?" It can be a double-edge sword. Leitmotif can be an attention whore's best friend.... I'm just kidding..., I'm just kidding....

 

Movie like Memento, which has a non-linear timeline, the audience is going to get lost without some leitmotif.

 

Arguing for your view point, I am very frustrated with online chat. I often employ some real world interaction techniques, like using colloquialism (e.g., erm..., you know, well or any small subconscious gestures), making blunders, doing (*actions*), speak on top of my head, so people will FEEL I was with them, talking to them, face to face, so they don't feel so lonely (a projection on my part). Response was very mixed. Some people thought I was a kid, who couldn't speak properly. (ironically, some people think I am too analytical in real world..., especially if they don't know me too well. I'm shy, okay?).

 

Just an off-tangent point to explain no matter what you do, some people will not like it, because it's a diverse world we live in. I would say know your niche and target that niche. People who doesn't like The Catcher in the Rye is going to say it sucks, you know what I mean?

[Nephylim]

I hate it when the same word is repeated in a paragraph, or even successive paragraphs and that is always one thing I look for when editing.

 

Sometimes I use similar scenes for emphasis, that is something I have been specifically experimenting with in Hubble Bubble (okay shameless plug ), which is very much an experimental piece for many different things.

 

However, generally I have to say that things that are repeated, unless it is done sparingly for emphasis or contrast, are intensely annoying for me. Prose is not poetry and techniques which make a good poem make bad prose. Same with music.

[kitten]

However, generally I have to say that things that are repeated, unless it is done sparingly for emphasis or contrast, are intensely annoying for me. Prose is not poetry and techniques which make a good poem make bad prose. Same with music.

 

Exactly how I feel.

One can listen to the same piece of music over and over and over, or read the same poem several times, and still enjoy them. However, I almost never read the same story/novel more than once or twice, and even my favourite literature-books would require large time gaps before I can read them again.

 

Kit

[David McLeod]

I find myself repeating words, phrases, beats, concepts, and scenes from one story to the next, and usually consider it a limitation (I just can't quite say "failure") of my ability. On the other hand, when I take the time to compare the new with the old, I often see some improvement (at least, in my opinion), and that's heartening. Ashi and I had a discussion of leitmotif, some time ago, and I'll not repeat that except to say that one must be judicious when repeating words, phrases, etc. in a single work. They can "tie together," but they can also be annoying.

 

I hope not to offend anyone when I say that I view this site as an opportunity to grow my ability. I know my earliest stories are siimplistic and puerile; I hope that my later ones are more complex and meaningful. If I lift a scene from an earlier story, polish it, and inject it into a later story, I hope my comperes will see it as growth and not laziness.