Bloodlines

[hombre]

I would predict that the said A LOT is a special, fashionable population, or something such - and not at all representative of any larger population.

 

Uh No, just plain old big city Dallas/Ft Worth Texas.

 

The truth is that also young people in general still today are not even willing to show gayness, even if they are gay - there are a lot of social pressure against that. So, 'advertising' bi-ness or somesuch, is a thing for a fashionable crowd.

 

You must live in a podunk town, even the most redneck suburbs here the young gay people are OUT and PROUD.

 

I suspect you have selected group. perhaps due to occupation or hobby or somesuch. I can understand that perhaps a clothes-seller or an hair-dresser would meet exceptionally big portion of gay-tendencied young males....

 

Occupation or hobby? Clothes seller or hair dresser? If I didn't think your post was condecending enough it just went even further south and smaks of stereotyping! How rude!

 

---------------------------

 

Hmm do I sound pissed and rude? Maybe - but your tone was such that warranted my outrage. I innitially replied to you in a JOKE hence the (jk) - what do you give back? Sarcasm, condecension, and stereotypical bigotry remarks. Tit for tat.

 

Have a great day! (sc)

Edited December 2, 2009 by gmendias

[jenni]

I don't care what the reason for it is, Senator Pervert needs to be drawn and quartered!! Now can we have someone call Alejandro?!?!?

 

I couldn't agree more! When it comes to child molesters, I really don't care about what has caused the abuser to molest, unless it is for the purpose of research to prevent it from happening in the future. There is simply no excuse for doing that to a child.

 

If the Senator started molesting Wade when he was twelve, then he has no qualms about molesting young kids and I would be surprised if he hasn't also molested Beau.

 

I wonder if Wade will come out to his brother by the time they head to Escorial?

 

I'm really glad Wade's anger at Matt didn't last too long and that he's willing to go along with Matt's plan. I was afraid Wade might be harder to convince.

 

I will feel much better once the trio of boys is safely away from Washington.

 

You must live in a podunk town, even the most redneck suburbs here the young gay people are OUT and PROUD.

It's true. I say I live in Indianapolis so everyone has an idea where I am, but I am really out in the country near Indy. My husband works in schools as a consultant, and even in some of the most small town, rural, backwards areas it is almost a popular thing to come out as gay. I'm not saying that's true everywhere, but it's not just the "fashionable" places by any means.

Edited December 2, 2009 by jenni

[Conner]

Enric, you really need to cut back on your drinking, or at least don't post when you do.

[Vacartu]

So next chapter is going to be like showdown at high noon? Only in an office and with politics instead of guns. Matt is definitely channeling his internal JP. Who wouldn't? I just think that Wade is the actual connoisseur and he should be the one to nail his father with the whole "dealing". To show his true value. He would definitely need Matt for support. After all, he has ate, breathed and lived politics all his life. I'm actually kind of surprised the way Matt dealt with the whole therapeutic session. Few people'd have the strength to help someone through something like that. Very

[amBIguoustwo]

Mark,

Some of my comments will be a little dated. Unfortunately, I've been busy trying to earn a living, so I haven't posted or followed the posts for much of November.

 

Brian's outing of Matt was a spectacular chapter, in spite of being saddened by his parents' rejection. While we all knew that would be their reaction, it didn't make it any easier to experience. An exceptionally well written chapter (hell, they're all well written, but this one was even better).

 

I always suspected something about the Senator, as I do for any over the top bigot. I always assume they are trying to restrain their true self. And, I'm rarely proved wrong. For some reason, Wade's reaction to being f**ked by Matt further raised my suspicions about Wade's father. Then, when Matt received the camcorder, I knew where this was going. You handled the subject matter well. Another great chapter.

 

As always (too many f**king always in this post!), thank you for sharing your writing.

 

Bryan

[Mark Arbour]

This will teach me to post a story and then go to bed. The responses pile up! AWESOME!!!

My experience in a VERY traditionally heterosexual (maybe rabidly might be a better word) backwater of hicksville, having a VERY out gay daughter is that many many more people than I thought are not only gay but openly so. It may of course very well be the case that my daughter, being gay would naturally gravitate towards other gay people but more than half of her friends are gay or bi. Having been a solicitor for almost 20 years with only one gay client in all that time I am noticing that I have far more these days... I have four at the moment. I don't know whether this is a sign of there being more people who are being open about it, or whether I am noticing it more... or something else entirely... just my thoughts.

 

This is an interesting topic, and one that I got bitched at for raising in another forum a bit ago. I think that you're right, that there are a lot more people out and unafraid to flaunt their sexuality, and I also agree that a lot of guys aren't willing to label (and thus limit) themselves. As for a preponderance of gay guys in the story, I think there's a good and valid reason for that. Like people tend to migrate towards each other. It's not a bigotry or stereotype thing, it's a natural process. It only makes sense that gay guys would look to be around each other for companionship, and to get laid. When a straight guy walks into Escorial, they're all disappointed. When a gay guy does, everyone is all keyed up and trying to nail him (Stef usually gets there first).

 

 

I couldn't agree more! When it comes to child molesters, I really don't care about what has caused the abuser to molest, unless it is for the purpose of research to prevent it from happening in the future. There is simply no excuse for doing that to a child.

 

If the Senator started molesting Wade when he was twelve, then he has no qualms about molesting young kids and I would be surprised if he hasn't also molested Beau.

 

I wonder if Wade will come out to his brother by the time they head to Escorial?

 

I'm really glad Wade's anger at Matt didn't last too long and that he's willing to go along with Matt's plan. I was afraid Wade might be harder to convince.

 

I will feel much better once the trio of boys is safely away from Washington.

 

It's true. I say I live in Indianapolis so everyone has an idea where I am, but I am really out in the country near Indy. My husband works in schools as a consultant, and even in some of the most small town, rural, backwards areas it is almost a popular thing to come out as gay. I'm not saying that's true everywhere, but it's not just the "fashionable" places by any means.

 

 

So next chapter is going to be like showdown at high noon? Only in an office and with politics instead of guns. Matt is definitely channeling his internal JP. Who wouldn't? I just think that Wade is the actual connoisseur and he should be the one to nail his father with the whole "dealing". To show his true value. He would definitely need Matt for support. After all, he has ate, breathed and lived politics all his life. I'm actually kind of surprised the way Matt dealt with the whole therapeutic session. Few people'd have the strength to help someone through something like that. Very à la "Good Will Hunting" at the end. "It's not your fault" kind of thing. I'm definitely with you guys.

 

 

I think this whole thing, IMHO, shows how incredibly strong Wade is. He's stuck in a "Catch 22" where family obligations and an overwhelming love for his brother have tied his hands and forced him to live through this hell, yet he manages to lead a relatively normal life unless he's having sex. It made sense to me, though, that he would be unable to deal with this without the help of someone like Matt. It's often easier to solve other people's problems than your own. Plus, having been in this hell for six years, he'd probably given up on a way out. He must truly feel liberated.

 

Mark,

Some of my comments will be a little dated. Unfortunately, I've been busy trying to earn a living, so I haven't posted or followed the posts for much of November.

 

Brian's outing of Matt was a spectacular chapter, in spite of being saddened by his parents' rejection. While we all knew that would be their reaction, it didn't make it any easier to experience. An exceptionally well written chapter (hell, they're all well written, but this one was even better).

 

I always suspected something about the Senator, as I do for any over the top bigot. I always assume they are trying to restrain their true self. And, I'm rarely proved wrong. For some reason, Wade's reaction to being f**ked by Matt further raised my suspicions about Wade's father. Then, when Matt received the camcorder, I knew where this was going. You handled the subject matter well. Another great chapter.

 

As always (too many f**king always in this post!), thank you for sharing your writing.

 

Bryan

 

 

I'm glad you caught up. I'm with you on bigots. Actually, I tried to splay the evidence out there on this thing, because child-molestation isn't something that I wanted to just throw in there all of a sudden. I think the interesting thing was why Wade did it. It shows how deeply he can love someone and care about them. If you think about it, the love that he has shown his brother has kept him in chains, while Matt's inability to let himself fall for someone kept him from being truly happy.

[Tiger]

This will teach me to post a story and then go to bed. The responses pile up! AWESOME!!!

Well, everyone needs sleep. And it's hard to predict when Joe gets around to posting stuff. He's almost as busy as Myr.

[methodwriter85]

As for a preponderance of gay guys in the story, I think there's a good and valid reason for that. Like people tend to migrate towards each other. It's not a bigotry or stereotype thing, it's a natural process. It only makes sense that gay guys would look to be around each other for companionship, and to get laid. When a straight guy walks into Escorial, they're all disappointed

 

Right. And it's not like straight people don't exist in this story- Cole's mainly straight- he doesn't mind sex with guys, but his heart is with women. Jack and Claire Hobart are straight. (We haven't really met their kids Marie and John yet, not really, so I can't judge.) Ace is straight. Isidore and Frank are straight. (Although Frank is a little less straight.) Darius, at the age of nearly seventeen (his birthdate is mid-January, 1982), seems firmly in the "straight" camp. I'm not sure about Brad's son Will yet-Will could very well end up straight, or maybe only bisexual and not full-gay. Although JJ- that kid is gay, gay, gay. LOL.

 

One thing I think is interesting is that like Robbie, Matt can enjoy sex with women. He physically can get into girls, and doesn't have to think about men to have sex with them. It's just that he identifies as gay, rather than as bisexual, because of the fact that he emotionally doesn't fall for girls in the way that he falls for guys- guys do it for him on both levels. Girls just don't do it for him the way guys can. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a woman- and how funny would that be? Maybe he'll end up like JP- married to a woman but also with a guy. Although in this case, the woman will be well-satisified sexually. LOL.

 

Mark M, your pondering about the use of technology was interesting. I think Mark has done a good job of showing how technology changes the world that the people of CAP inhabit- with the emails, the cell phones, the plans for Google, Matt watching flat-screen TV's, and the digital video camera. It doesn't overtake the story, but it serves as background ambiance so you know that their world has changed as CAP World has progressed from 1962 to 1998. It's kinda funny you didn't get your cell phone until 9th grade in '05...I got mine when I was in 8th grade in 2001, and I thought that you young'uns were supposed to have gotten your cell phones in elementary school or something. LOL. The big thing I remember about 11th grade, which was 2003-2004 for me, was that the camera cell phones had come out, and it was the big thing to have. IPods were around starting in 2001, but it wasn't until '03-'04 that everyone I went to high school with started having one. As for Facebook- Facebook hit in 2004, but I remember in '04, most of the kids I went to high school with were using LiveJournal. Myspace hit more in '04-'05. When I started college in 2005, Myspace was already "hot", and alot of kids I knew had it. Facebook was known, but Facebook was initially only for college students- you had to have a college email to register an account there. It wasn't as popular as Myspace, where everyone could register. When Facebook changed that policy, which I think was around 2006, that was when Facebook really took off.

 

I'm looking forward to when CAP World hits 2001(prolly in the next story), and Will and JJ try to show Stefan how to download music to an IPod that looks like this-

http://www.tgdaily.com/picturegalleries/20070409/1st_gen_ipod.jpg

 

Speaking of Mp3 stuff, wouldn't it be hilarious if Luke Carruthers not only invests in Pets.com, but also Napster? Geez.

[Mark Arbour]

You mentioned the flat-screen TV's, and that was really a stretch for this story. I remember those, and you had to lay out some big bucks to get one of the earlier plasmas. But Matt seemed like the kind of guy who could finagle that out of his parents. I kind of pegged Dr. Carrswold as one of those tech junkies, who buys cool stuff even if he doesn't quite know how it works, or even quite how to use it. I visualized him at the TV store (probably BestBuy) getting a plasma for their family room and picking one up for Matt too, just to reward him for his good grades or his latest big game goal.

[Wiz_89]

As much Escorial is a gay haven I believe Isidore alone could draw significant straight attention. Besides Claire's the secret family head :king: she has JP wrapped around her finger , not to mention she's fear by them all for some reason Mark hasn't let us know.

 

 

In the Senator Pervert situation I can't express how much I want the guy to suffer, but I believe Mark might use this to give the main characters some stronger villains . The guy can't be easily disposed off and would prove a mighty adversary against the Crampton Family. An underground war were they might end up pulling past skeletons. He might even team him up with JP's brother. Two forces in opposite coast reaching to kill one another.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Wiz_89

[Mark Arbour]

As much Escorial is a gay haven I believe Isidore alone could draw significant straight attention. Besides Claire's the secret family head :king: she has JP wrapped around her finger , not to mention she's fear by them all for some reason Mark hasn't let us know.

 

They're not really afraid of Claire, they're just very respectful of her. She doesn't really assert herself unless it's important, and when she does, they listen. Besides, I'll bet there are a lot of guys in here who have a sister like that, one who just sort of commands obedience without even asking for it.

[Tiger]

They're not really afraid of Claire, they're just very respectful of her. She doesn't really assert herself unless it's important, and when she does, they listen. Besides, I'll bet there are a lot of guys in here who have a sister like that, one who just sort of commands obedience without even asking for it.

As they should. She's a great woman! Anyway, when is 40 coming out? I'm having withdrawals already, and I bet everyone else is too.

[KJames]

As they should. She's a great woman! Anyway, when is 40 coming out? I'm having withdrawals already, and I bet everyone else is too.

 

The respect they all have for Claire and Jack is a return of the respect they all got from Claire and Jack. Neither of them was lacking in giving support to JP, Stef, Brad, Ace or anyone else when they needed and deserved it. That is how they accumulated their power, they earned it the old fashioned way.

[Mark Arbour]

The respect they all have for Claire and Jack is a return of the respect they all got from Claire and Jack. Neither of them was lacking in giving support to JP, Stef, Brad, Ace or anyone else when they needed and deserved it. That is how they accumulated their power, they earned it the old fashioned way.

 

Very well said.

[KJames]

Very well said.

 

 

But being around when she's in a mood to go shopping would still scare the piss out of me and I'm sure JP wouldn't appreciate puddles on his floors.

[Conner]

They're not really afraid of Claire, they're just very respectful of her. She doesn't really assert herself unless it's important, and when she does, they listen. Besides, I'll bet there are a lot of guys in here who have a sister like that, one who just sort of commands obedience without even asking for it.

 

OMG! You've met my sister!

[Mark M]

Declaired cliff hanger! Worst one of "life" and i duno whats wronge with my but the whole chapter was really good, but i found it lacking in politics and the drag-out the problem, i'm not entilry sure but the speed these chapters move are getting to be....annoying? there good but when at the begining of a chapter were showering and the next were ready to nail a senator to the wall is just....to quick to really develope the full effect of beau's and wades relationship. (DON"T STONE ME PLEASE :S)

 

I think if we went into like wade and Beau interacting more there would be more of an effect. Mark i may just turn into a writer just to show you how details can control the emotions of the reader even stronger than i'm getting from your stories (sorry again... but there's positive coming....eventually).

 

The technology just jumped in there with the cell phone.....i missed the whole flat-screen refrence because they really arn't something that is used evey minute of every day.

 

plus the quickness of stories and the rather unexpected reliance on a cell phone was just like waaa!

 

 

Senitor Danfield.......*hit* not impressed.

 

 

Matt *hug* lovable teddy bear to still....love.....that....and maybe even imlicated....:|

 

mark next chapter please! make it a combo of 40 and 41 but call it 40 that way...they'll take some time to read. and then u'd have 47 chapters instead f 48

[someone else]

Uh No, just plain old big city Dallas/Ft Worth Texas.

 

 

 

You must live in a podunk town, even the most redneck suburbs here the young gay people are OUT and PROUD.

 

 

 

Occupation or hobby? Clothes seller or hair dresser? If I didn't think your post was condecending enough it just went even further south and smaks of stereotyping! How rude!

 

---------------------------

 

 

Hmm do I sound pissed and rude? Maybe - but your tone was such that warranted my outrage. I innitially replied to you in a JOKE hence the (jk) - what do you give back? Sarcasm, condecension, and stereotypical bigotry remarks. Tit for tat.

 

Have a great day! (sc)

 

 

Most of the posters and lurkers in this forum, and others on this site, know that there is a protocol about responding to certain posters who exhibit an almost unnatural preoccupation with stereotyping people by sex roles, particularly the primary roles in anal sex; it is the nancy reagan protocol - just say no (i.e do not do it). Now you know, and you perhaps weren't to have known, so please take this in the lighthearted spirit it is offered in.

 

Also, I think I can settle the argument here: 16.6 (repeating) is the percentage of the population that is gay (or, at a stretch, bisexual). For evidence, I offer "Five to One":

(for listening) http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ciBpob-Lo4A

(for watching)

While there are many theories about the semiotics and literal meaning of the lyrics, it is clear to me from the combination of the band, the singer, the lyrics, the musicc and the times that it refers to the ratio of non-gay to gay people. And, if you peek over the brim of your tin-foil hat, Jim Morrison's dad worked in intelligence, so he would know the real deal. I think that irrefutable evidence is rare, anecdotal has little weight. Anyway, I hope this helpful.

 

Regarding the preponderance of gay characters in the story, it could have something to do with where it is posted, maybe? Alternatively, it could be that a major theme of CAP, to me and mr music at least, is family and how gay people make families where blood relationships are secondary but the family is a strong unit made up of people that love each other.In any case,CAP is so well written with such great characters that it provokes a large amount of discussion, here and elsewhere - this shows that people relate to the characters and story easily, typically because it reads as true to life, despite being fiction - it is just the way the story is, take it or leave (but I'll alwasys enjoy it). And yes, the story pprovides insight to how mark would like to be perceived by his audience; read it as you may.

 

It must be 4:20 now, even in the southern hemisphere, so thank you for indulgng me.

Edited December 3, 2009 by someone else

[Enric]

 

Regarding the preponderance of gay characters in the story, it could have something to do with where it is posted, maybe?

 

 

that is not a good explanation to meaningfully explain the implausibility why blood relatives of this story's protagonists would number so many gays - that is exceptional, in terms of real world, as opposed to wishful thinking or somesuch.

 

There's a difference between blood relations and gay-relations-by-gayness-bringing-people-together. Of course families formed by the latter, would be mostly gay and bi. But as clear it should be that majority of blood relatives of gay people would in real world be heterosexual.

 

'Someone else', thank you for your theories. I must say that they taste relatively odd.

[Enric]

 

Also, I think I can settle the argument here: 16.6 (repeating) is the percentage of the population that is gay (or, at a stretch, bisexual). For evidence, I offer "Five to One":

(for listening) http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ciBpob-Lo4A

(for watching)

While there are many theories about the semiotics and literal meaning of the lyrics, it is clear to me from the combination of the band, the singer, the lyrics, the musicc and the times that it refers to the ratio of non-gay to gay people.

 

...... tin-foil hat, Jim Morrison's dad worked in intelligence, so he would know the real deal......

 

It must be 4:20 now, even in the southern hemisphere, so thank you for indulgng me.

 

okay, I see that there definitely had to be tinfoil hats involved in forming those theories.

 

[Ivy]

Enric, While there might be a lot of gay characters in the story and many of them are related in some way, there are many brothers and sisters that were strait as well. They just weren't important as characters to the story, so Mark didn't include them unless he needed to. As this is a story that began with JP as the main character and tells his life from a gay man's perspective, naturally there would be gay men in his life because Mark has said that he likes happy endings and wouldn't leave JP or any of the main characters to live a solitary life with no companionship.

 

The fact that we see gay men popping up in the same families is (IMHO) the way Mark wants to relate the story. I mean the title of this section is "Bloodlines". It's fiction. Mark is so good at including real life historical elements, but its not fair to expect any author to relate a story that exactly mirrors real life.

 

So there are probably too many gay men in the Hayes, Crampton, and Shluter family trees. Who cares? It a great story about interesting people. Read it for that and let yourself enjoy it for what it is. Fiction by defintion is not reality. There are plenty of depressing documentaries out there if we want factual entertainment.

 

No disrespect meant, I have enjoyed reading your post's and comments.

 

 

[Tiger]

I happen to agree with Ivy. Fiction is fiction. We don't want it to mirror real life.

[methodwriter85]

And by the way, I know a poster. She's got four children. Her two sons are bisexual, and she has a daughter she believes will turn out to be a lesbian. So you never know.

[Tiger]

And by the way, I know a poster. She's got four children. Her two sons are bisexual, and she has a daughter she believes will turn out to be a lesbian. So you never know.

There are factors to remember. Here is what I believe causes it. I believe there is a genetic marker. If this genetic marker is activated, the child will be gay or bi. Sadly, this might mean that science will eventually eliminate same-sex attraction, but that's a story for another time and place. That's why, in theory, some families have more gay or bi people than others. I also believe that same-sex attraction can be caused by sexual abuse.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Tiger

[Hermetically Sealed]

Just to add my 2 cents to the topic; my ex has a great nephew that's gay, 3 first cousins that are gay, a bi sexual brother, and it is thought (based on things stated by him and his mother) that his father was bent as well. That isn't even going into the several second cousins who are gay or bi. So the concept of several gay members in a family isn't that out there.

 

 

He also grew up in a backwoods redneck town that is literally less than a square mile in size, and yet, he had same sex experiences with nearly half the straight guys his age in town, and more than a few who were older than him. One need not be from a big liberal area to encounter such things. Hell, a friend of ours from Ireland is constantly making out with his straight friends, even had sex with a few. I can honestly state that none of us associate with many other gay men. Hell, my ex and I still hangout, but that's about it for us. Most of our friends are straight, and we don't go to the clubs or bars, or surround ourselves with other gays.

 

 

As for realism, I don't read fiction when I want reality. If I need things to be that ridged, I'll read nonfiction or just visit friends. I read these stories to be entertained, not educated.

 

Btw, Mark, thank you for providing a wonderful story. I've enjoyed the whole thing, even 1968.

 

 

Liam