The Box

[Mark M]

So guys in their 40s can still be attractive?

 

*breaths a sigh of relief*

 

 

Yes they can......but meh. Stef best be doing alot of perving on these younger guys!!!! wonder if brad still does art?

[Canuk]

Mark , continuing with the age discussion, I think you have nailed it describing the changing nature of relationships as the partners age.

 

a person I know classifies people into three groups: 1)wouldn't kick out of bed, 2) would invite into bed, 3) would spend my life with. in my five decades I have met many in cata 1, quite a few in cata 2, but only 1 in cata 3 and it took me 4 decades to find him.

 

CAP covers all three types of characters and the fact that it took Steph and JP a while to make that connection speaks to the realism and truth of your writing.

 

Now; the box - who is it going to crucify? I can't wait!!!

[Mark Arbour]

Mark , continuing with the age discussion, I think you have nailed it describing the changing nature of relationships as the partners age.

 

a person I know classifies people into three groups: 1)wouldn't kick out of bed, 2) would invite into bed, 3) would spend my life with. in my five decades I have met many in cata 1, quite a few in cata 2, but only 1 in cata 3 and it took me 4 decades to find him.

 

CAP covers all three types of characters and the fact that it took Steph and JP a while to make that connection speaks to the realism and truth of your writing.

 

Now; the box - who is it going to crucify? I can't wait!!!

 

Thanks! I think JP and Stef make a nice, mature couple. They can't f**k 10 times a day, but they still enjoy sex. Some on the forum just don't want the details.

 

The next chapter will be up soon.

[Tiger]

Thanks! I think JP and Stef make a nice, mature couple. They can't f**k 10 times a day, but they still enjoy sex. Some on the forum just don't want the details.

 

The next chapter will be up soon.

I'll pretend they're young.

[GLH]

If patience is a virtue, I'm goin' to hell...

[Mark Arbour]

If patience is a virtue, I'm goin' to hell...

 

You live in Marion. You're already there.

 

Sorry...couldn't resist.

[Enric]

ch3: he was hetero !

[rjo]

Maybe or maybe not. Even Stef had sex with women. Aaron is a "close friend". It's interesting that things have not changed much. 16 yo guys and cars. If Steve is 16 and JP is 5 that means Steve was born in 1925 and sadly died in 1945 only 20 yo how very sad. It is so very good to see Tonto alive and well being her indomitable self.

[Mark Arbour]

Maybe or maybe not. Even Stef had sex with women. Aaron is a "close friend". It's interesting that things have not changed much. 16 yo guys and cars. If Steve is 16 and JP is 5 that means Steve was born in 1925 and sadly died in 1945 only 20 yo how very sad. It is so very good to see Tonto alive and well being her indomitable self.

 

Tonto always was one of my favorite characters.

[rjo]

Tonto died off camera so to speak. Many of your readers never were able to say goodbye. You have given us two gifts. Steve the unknown father and Stef's relationship with him (priceless) and Tonto. It is great to see all the guys who loved her and still miss her. Of course who would't miss her. She's great! What's even better Wade and Matt will get to know and love her too. I thought it was so touching when JP pointed out her picture in the Great Hall. It tells you alot about her and JP.

[Enric]

it is intriguing to compare Stef with his father Steven. the old adage 'apple does not fall far from the tree', is it really true?

 

Steven has thus far displayed no tendency to be very promiscuous and a real sex maniac. Which is different than Stef. Would Stef have gotten that from his mother?

Stef's business acumen is nowhere yet displayed in Steven. I gather Steven was not a teenage entrepreneur by his nature....

 

poor Barry. seems we did not get familiar with his more annoying traits. My recollection of the guy what he was like in CAP and so, was just a man meek and ordinary.

 

Barry's father was alive. oh well. So, that guy was brother of the sometime-mentioned uncle Jacob. right? but where's uncle Jacob now?

 

So, the real money came from Tonto. Should have guessed. It's well known that judges, while often well off, are not exactly in way to become billionaires. A judgeship rather is an occupation for an educated descendant of blue-blooded family, owning some remnants of much earlier family money and properties. Quite often, judges are in generations when much of the earlier wealth had been lost, and replaced with 'good standing' and aristocratic demeanor, as well as high education.

 

I am somewhat suprised that Jim was so much older than JP. They did not give such an impression in CAP. Besides, Jim should have started to have his own kids before the age of 30. Rather, perhaps even as early as when 22 or something....

And I find it odd that these two pairs of cousins happened to be born so tightly as pairs. Billy and JP same age - and Jim& Steven same age. Not plausible. Stochastics should have distributed them a bit more.

my impressions were that Steven as oldest, Jim could well be some five years younger than him. And Billy should rather be one or two years older than JP. Besides, Billy strted to have kids in 1957 or so. It would be more fitting, had he been born already in 1934.... Because, men found their families usually only some years after turning 20.

Assuming Gail and Barry (who were siblings) to been born in years near one another, and knowing that women start family some years younger than men usually, Steven and Jim could more plausibly have some years between them, Jim being younger.

 

funnily enough, the tale brings to see that really, cars were huge piles of metal in those days. rolling heaps, and not yet designed for sleekness and compactness.

[Mark Arbour]

 

1941 Packard Convertible

 

 

 

Interior

 

[Mark Arbour]

 

1941 Buick Convertible

 

 

 

1941 Chrysler Imperial

[methodwriter85]

And I find it odd that these two pairs of cousins happened to be born so tightly as pairs. Billy and JP same age - and Jim& Steven same age. Not plausible. Stochastics should have distributed them a bit more.

 

It's not that far-fetched at all. My sister Jennifer and our cousin Stacey were both born in 1977. And I'm about the same age as my cousin Heather.

 

And it's something that will continue in the series- J.J. Schluter, Will Schluter, Marie Hobart, and John Hobart were all born in a span between December 1985 to March 1987. Forget a pair- the cousins are a quad, all within a year-and-half of each other. (And before you bitch about the implausibility of Marie and John Horbart being born just 11 months apart, it's been a regular enough occurence for two siblings to be born less than a year after each other that it's called the Irish Twin.)

 

Jim's age was never really that concrete in CAP, so Mark is allowed room to clarify it through this prequel. I think it works out fine that Jim is a contemporary of Steven. While I agree that it's unusual for Jim to have waited until he was in his 30's to get married and have kids, it's certaintly not unhead-of, especially considering what a heel Jim is. I don't think he was exactly fighting off the girls in his 20's.

[Mark Arbour]

It's not that far-fetched at all. My sister Jennifer and our cousin Stacey were both born in 1977. And I'm about the same age as my cousin Heather.

 

And it's something that will continue in the series- J.J. Schluter, Will Schluter, Marie Hobart, and John Hobart were all born in a span between December 1985 to March 1987. Forget a pair- the cousins are a quad, all within a year-and-half of each other. (And before you bitch about the implausibility of Marie and John Horbart being born just 11 months apart, it's been a regular enough occurence for two siblings to be born less than a year after each other that it's called the Irish Twin.)

 

Jim's age was never really that concrete in CAP, so Mark is allowed room to clarify it through this prequel. I think it works out fine that Jim is a contemporary of Steven. While I agree that it's unusual for Jim to have waited until he was in his 30's to get married and have kids, it's certaintly not unhead-of, especially considering what a heel Jim is. I don't think he was exactly fighting off the girls in his 20's.

 

I agree with you on everything except the last sentence. I see Jim as one of those guys who has everything, and uses it to exploit others, especially women. Women chase him because of what he is, not who he is. I suspect that's why he ended up with Bill Hendrickson's daughter...someone he couldn't just shit on.

[Enric]

It's not that far-fetched at all. My sister Jennifer and our cousin Stacey were both born in 1977. And I'm about the same age as my cousin Heather.

 

 

and, were the siblings who became one as parent of you and your sis, the other the parent of your cousins,

of different genders ?

 

I concede willingly that same sex, ie either two brothers born in near years, may marry in near years and have kids even in synchron;

and two sisters born near years, to marry near years and have kids even in synchron;

BUT, if the siblings are of opposite sexes and born near years, then normally the sister marries earlier and the brother some five years or so later. And consequently, their kids are usualy not exactly in synchron.

 

an exception of this, according to my demographical and genealogical data, is many lowest-class families where both sons and daughters start (because they are dork and not cautious, they tend to forget to use condoms) to make kids already in late teens. There are a number of forced marriages in late teens among boys of such social class.

but this exceptionality certainly is not usual for europeans above the lowest social class, and neither to americans of upper class.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Enric

[Enric]

will continue in the series- J.J. Schluter, Will Schluter, Marie Hobart, and John Hobart were all born in a span between December 1985 to March 1987. Forget a pair- the cousins are a quad, all within a year-and-half of each other. (And before you bitch about the implausibility of Marie and John Horbart being born just 11 months apart, it's been a regular enough occurence for two siblings to be born less than a year after each other that it's called the Irish Twin.)

 

 

JJ and Marie and John are kids of women of this family. They may have better synchron.

 

Brad, the father of Will, was elder by some years than his step-sister, mrs Hobart. So, his first kid and Claire's first kid being of almost same year is not implausible. Will is seemingly younger than the eldest kid of his step-aunt though the aunt is younger than Will's dad. Plus, Brad got a special start anyway, getting the rare opening to breed a kid despite of being gay. That would anyway creat an exception to demographic 'normalcy'

 

Poor Claire, you put her through childbirth twice in 11 months.... No wonder she won't have any more kids; right

It's not impossible to have kids within 10 or 11 months, it's just heavy, and most women try to avoid that sort of rapidity. in addition, breast-feeding the earlier kid, prevents somewhat effectively the next pregnancy, until...

[B1ue]

Three of my cousins are born within a year (each way) time span of my own birth, and one is only a month older than I am. And all three of my sisters have cousins within six months of their own age. Further, it's been a longstanding joke that whenever a certain aunt of mine has a grandchild, my eldest sister will get pregnant. She has four grandchildren, born three weeks, one week, one month, and six months apart from one my sister's children.

 

So, yeah. Stuff like that happens. It isn't statistically common, no, but as my ex's medical ethics textbook says, when it gets down to cases, all statistics are either 100% or 0%.

 

Edit: I should probably note that this certain aunt is *my* aunt, not my sister's, as we have different fathers.

[Enric]

It's not that far-fetched at all. My sister Jennifer and our cousin Stacey were both born in 1977. And I'm about the same age as my cousin Heather.

 

 

and, were the siblings who became one as parent of you and your sis, the other the parent of your cousins,

of different genders ?

 

I gather from Jeremy's writing elsewhere that

his cousin Stacey is a daughter of his uncle,

while his cousin Heather is a daughter of his aunt.

and that Stacey and Heather are not siblings.

Plus that each of these families had more chilödren than these Jeremy used as examples of pairings.

 

So, the situation in Jeremy's extended family (where already those cousins are distributed to different aunts and uncles) is not similar as that a-bit-implausible fiction which I critiqued: it is not that usual that two siblings of *different* genders, would have their all children in synchron as pairs.

As said, stochastics -and the additional factor that a male sibling is usually in different rhythm than a female sibling in their lives- usually makes children more distributed.

 

The CAP story actually gave originally me an impression that Billy could been a couple years older than JP. a bit older at least.

 

 

Three of my cousins are born within a year (each way) time span of my own birth, and one is only a month older than I am. And all three of my sisters have cousins within six months of their own age.

 

It looks like your extended family is pretty numerous. And thusly it is not that unusual that some of the children born to either sisters of near age, or to brothers of near age, happen to be born near one another.

 

From that listing you gave, I detect that you were speaking of at least four different aunts and/or uncles, as the parents who are blood-related to you.

 

aren't there any of your cousins who are NOT born as near pair of one of the kids of your parents? I would think that in a normal situation, there'd be a few of your cousins who are not in timely pair in that way.

The unusualness I critized, is in much part because these two fictional siblings, Gail and Jack (who are of opposite sex), would not have but two kids each, AND both have a big gap between first and second kid: ten years of no birth in either family;

and both ALWAYS have a kid in time-pair with another.

 

by the way, are those siblings who are your aunts/uncles, themselves born in near years from one another ?

 

and, does this big number of siblings and aunts and uncles in each generation, happen to correlate with them coming from 'poor folks' ?

(there are clear differences in demographic behavior of one hand well-to-do families, and on the other hand low-class families. In the latter, to express some things bluntly, the persons -both men and women- are not good at concentrating at obtaining good education, but they tend to get pregnant already around 20 or before, and have a bigger number of kids)

Edited February 7, 2010 by Enric

[Enric]

now that JP himself is over 60 years old, and recently made the feat of having sex with Matt,

it is funny to read what were the twentyish JP's thought (in early 1960s) in the opening chapter of CAP:

 

".....Other days I'd come in and the other stall would be occupied by one of the old trolls that lurked around here. Old men, men over 50, who lurked here hoping a young college guy wouldn't notice how ancient they were, or wouldn't care, and let them suck his dick anyway. Those trolls would camp here for hours, ruining the place for the rest of us."

[GLH]

If patience is a virtue, I'm goin' to hell...

 

 

You live in Marion. You're already there.

 

Sorry...couldn't resist.

 

 

Could be worse, I could be from the Bootheel...

[Mark Arbour]

now that JP himself is over 60 years old, and recently made the feat of having sex with Matt,

it is funny to read what were the twentyish JP's thought (in early 1960s) in the opening chapter of CAP:

 

".....Other days I'd come in and the other stall would be occupied by one of the old trolls that lurked around here. Old men, men over 50, who lurked here hoping a young college guy wouldn't notice how ancient they were, or wouldn't care, and let them suck his dick anyway. Those trolls would camp here for hours, ruining the place for the rest of us."

 

Yep. Amazing how perspective is everything.

[B1ue]

It looks like your extended family is pretty numerous. And thusly it is not that unusual that some of the children born to either sisters of near age, or to brothers of near age, happen to be born near one another.

 

From that listing you gave, I detect that you were speaking of at least four different aunts and/or uncles, as the parents who are blood-related to you.

 

aren't there any of your cousins who are NOT born as near pair of one of the kids of your parents? I would think that in a normal situation, there'd be a few of your cousins who are not in timely pair in that way.

The unusualness I critized, is in much part because these two fictional siblings, Gail and Jack (who are of opposite sex), would not have but two kids each, AND both have a big gap between first and second kid: ten years of no birth in either family;

and both ALWAYS have a kid in time-pair with another.

 

by the way, are those siblings who are your aunts/uncles, themselves born in near years from one another ?

 

and, does this big number of siblings and aunts and uncles in each generation, happen to correlate with them coming from 'poor folks' ?

(there are clear differences in demographic behavior of one hand well-to-do families, and on the other hand low-class families. In the latter, to express some things bluntly, the persons -both men and women- are not good at concentrating at obtaining good education, but they tend to get pregnant already around 20 or before, and have a bigger number of kids)

 

We're wandering pretty far off topic, but to answer your questions, yes my family is numerous. I actually have eight aunts and uncles (not including spouses) on my mom's side that I've met, and about half a dozen more that we all know about but no one mentions in public. My father has another five siblings. As far as the spread in ages, in the case of my cousin that was born at nearly the same time as me, our mothers are sisters who has less than two years apart in age, and we were the last child to both mothers. The other two cousins were born to siblings much younger than my parents, ten years in one case, fifteen years in the other. My eldest sister is only four years younger than that particular aunt.

 

My dads family is about half the size of my mom's, so there streaks are not readily apparent. On my mom's, births come in definite bursts. There will be two or three years where several women will have a child, followed by five years of quiet. The only outliers I can think of offhand are Victor, my oldest cousin on that side, and my uncle Joey, a late life birth who for all I know matches a second cousin I just haven't met.

 

We suspect that my family would be much larger, had TV only not been invented. Only my eldest sister and one of my cousins have broods that rival that of my grandmother.

 

Edit: And for this reason, it's a family joke that Women's liberation was only made possible by the advents of color television and remote controls.

[methodwriter85]

You are really goddamn obdurate, Enric.

[Enric]

You are really goddamn obdurate, Enric.

 

From my part, I have been despairing over some people's ignorance here about knowledge of demographics, and ignorance about results of genealogical research.

 

Then, from such ignorance, and misguided ideas concocted from whatever, rather than from real knowledge, have come some obdurate claims from some of those people that things (which I know to be unusual, even implausible) are happening. Particularly if they can find a misappropriated, wrongly interpreted occurrence in their own family tree - which tree they do not however seem to know exhaustively enough (so, a selective sample-taking for one's purposes takes easily place)

 

It has become amply established that those some do not actually know genealogy, nor demographics, well enough.

 

I see no reason to yield to claims which are contrary to research results, and which claims by deeper analysis turn out to be unwarranted.

 

Have you Jeremy considered to respect research knowledge in these matters?

or are you obstinately going to present parts, skewed, of your only-by-half-known family tree, to justify unusual occurrences ?