[Grammar] Who vs. That

[gardentuber]

I've been seeing a construction in many stories by many authors that peeves me. That is, the replacement of the word 'who' with 'that'. For instance:

 

>She is a person with cat allergies that loves her cat.

>The Freedom League is a small group of people that support free speech.

 

Now, I'll admit the construction of the sentences is clumsy, but they're just to illustrate my point. When speaking about a person, shouldn't the modifying clause start with 'who' rather than 'that'?

 

I would modify the examples as follows:

 

>She is a person with cat allergies who loves her cat.

>The Freedom League is a small group of people who support free speech.

 

In an alternate to the second example, would it be correct to write;

 

>The Freedom League is a group that supports free speech. (and where do I put the question mark?)

 

I'd appreciate responses (especially correct ones, or at minimum, ones that agree with me! )

[TalonRider]

Funny this topic should pop up. While working on a chapter I'm proofreading, I came across this, At the departure of the Emperor, the Avionne page stroked his wings, flew back to the imperial box, and joined the second page who was following behind the imperial retinue.

 

While grammar/spellcheck pointed it out, I still had the option to choose. Sometimes it's a matter of what sounds/looks better. In the sentence above, we have one individual joining another in an action.

 

So in this case, I agreed with the author.

[sat8997]

Who refers to people. That and which refer to groups or things.

 

 

Who Versus That

[gardentuber]

Who refers to people. That and which refer to groups or things.

 

 

Who Versus That

 

 

Thanks, Sharon. I've always thought that was self-evident, but I'm seeing so much confusion in stories, I wanted to confirm (and perhaps get on a soapbox on the subject). While I've got your attention... I am not clear on when which or that should be used. Care to elaborate?

[sat8997]

Which Versus That

 

[gardentuber]

Which Versus That

 

 

Brilliant! Many Thanks!

 

Do you, like, have an English degree or something?

[sat8997]

Nope...just the ability to find grammar-related sites and bookmark them for future reference.

[gardentuber]

Maybe, but you seem to be able to recollect what you've found and bookmarked and, what's more, be able to apply it!

 

I've got a seat-of-the-pants understanding of grammar, syntax and punctuation, but the rationale has been lost to the mists of time. I've been impressed that you can not only discern correct from incorrect, but can give the reasons behind the correctness or in... Hats off!

[TalonRider]

If she wanted to, she could post some of those links in the Reference topic pinned at the top of this forum.

[sat8997]

Subtle, Jan...very subtle.

 

Thank you, Gardentuber. I try to be helpful where I can.

[Guest The Nature Nut]

I love Grammar Girl! She has podcasts and books on cd too. (Should a comma go before that "too"?) I'm currently reading a grammar book titled, The Handbook of English Grammar and Usage by McGraw-Hill. It's good. San Diego University offers a course titled, Grammar Lab. They also offer a copy editing certification course. I'm currently taking the grammar lab. That's how I discovered the McGraw-Hill book.

 

http://extension.ucsd.edu/programs/index.cfm?vAction=certDetail&vCertificateID=41&vStudyAreaID=13

[John Doe]

Which Versus That

 

 

So I guess I have been using that wrong many times. Who knew! Good to know. Haha.