MIllennium

[B1ue]

I must admit to liking the Jeanine theory. Fascinating really. A question though - does she really have the finances to be the money clip behind Amphion? Everyone talks about Stef having more money than God. Frankly, I can't remember her history at all.

 

I don't think she'd have enough to do it on her own, no. But she'd have enough to seed the intial moves, and she'd be in a position to know every single person Brad, Stef, and Luke have managed to piss off over the years.

 

The real problem with my thoery is when she'd have done all this. Her movements are pretty limited in her role as nanny, and while Brad and Robbie would have no call to place actual restrictions on her, they'd have every right to wonder where she was going and why.

[Mark Arbour]

if you know all their names its a "-some", if you don't it's an orgy........

 

 

Now that's funny.

[Mark Arbour]

I agree with this. Since 1986, Jeanine has been essentially treated like the live-in nanny for Darius, JJ, and Will. After 13 years of this, she's got to be pretty pissed off, and I'm betting the Brad/Robbie shenanigans have to be the last straw for her. Brad and Robbie are not 17 years old, but they're acting like they are, so Jeanine is basically supposed to do all the parenting responsibility by herself when there are not just one, but TWO dads around in the household.

 

With JJ and Will being thirteen years old, and Darius getting ready for college, I'm betting that Jeanine is really ready for finding a life of her own. Hopefully she does find a girlfriend, maybe even a career. She could become a tutor or a teacher or something like that- she does seem to enjoy being around kids. You do have to compare her to Isidore, who was treated as a full member of the household and even got to field her own career when it wasn't common for a woman to have one, and you do find Jeanine's relationship to Brad and Robbie to be pretty lacking in comparison.

 

I'm hoping Brad's going to realize at some point, "My kids have been growing up, and I have been completely blind to it because I've been so wrapped up in my own life that I haven't taken the time to look at theirs." I also hope he realizes that he's been playing favorites with the kids, and overall that he really needs to tweak his parenting style before he can honestly call himself a great parent. But the good thing is that it's not too late- the kids aren't out of the house just yet. And I think it's really those last years- the high school years- that a kid needs their parent the most. I hope Brad and Robbie get it together to really be there for their kids.

 

Brad and Robbie are just lucky that Darius, JJ, and Will are esentially good kids who aren't going to go off the rails when it comes to adolescence. JP, Sam, and Isidore's laconic, overindulged parenting styles had some consequences- Brad and Ace's anger issues, Claire's stuck-up shallowness, and Billy's self-centered attitude. I think it took the tragedy of Billy's death to help Brad, Ace and Claire learn to become better people.

 

In contrast, this generation of kids seem like nice, mellow people with good heads on their shoulders, and don't seem stuck-up at all. Which is nice.

 

Although JJ is really, really prissy. LOL.

 

I really haven't given you a detailed enough picture to define whether or not they're good parents. Parental relationships aren't defined by time spent, but by quality time spent. Brad, Robbie, and Jeanine seem to be fine with all three guys, and they seem pretty happy. Not sure where the problem is. It's not like teenagers want to spend tons of time with their parents anyway.

 

 

I'm going to need to reread Bloodlines, because I don't remember him being that fussy, so perhaps there are other things I missed.

 

I don't think I truly believe what I'm about to type, but throwing out theories is fun, especially with Mark's dark muttering in the background.

 

We've essentially figured out who the insitgators of Amphion are (Dan and Lark), who their most active agents are (Brandon, Carson), their public face (Cary Chase and that other dweeb from chapter 4 or so), but who came up with this operation? Who is driving the timing, found all these people with their axes to grind and made sure they met not only each other but the right people in Brad and Robbie's world? Who might have enough second or third hand knowledge of both of their careers in order to come up with an idea to wreck them both but not, perhaps, enough saavy to beat them both on their own turf and on their own terms? Who has, better than a half-forgotten high school crush, a solid seventeen years of exasperation and bitterness built up against Robbie and Brad? Who might see Matt, especially, as a threat to her own continued lifestyle, due to the role he has assumed in the lives of JJ, Darius, and Will, and saw in the stories of Brian, Bitty, and Nick that not even a blood tie is truly enough to keep you around if the clan decides you are no longer welcome? And, who, with college coming up fast for all three boys, might just realize her own usefulness might be coming to and end, and might have decided to stake out a retirement claim?

 

Jeanine has the contacts, knows the family and it's history, and has money enough of her own by now, and most certainly has enough motivation to want to wreck Robbie and Brad, if only to more firmly cement her own ties in JJ, Will, and Darius's lives. The timing troubles me, ideally she'd have wanted to wait at least a couple years to limit the fall-out if the plan blew up in her face. But she may have originally hatched a slow, long term plan that got snatched out of her hands by her idiot co-conspiritors, or the targets themselves. Robbie, one could have predicted he'd wilt like the delicate flower he is, but Brad going crazy would have been impossible to predict. And having both a Brandon and a Carson planted in the right places, especially Carson as Robbie's confidant, might have been planned to take longer than it actually did.

 

Like I said, I'll need more information before I think something that elaborate was actually plausable, but I am the product of my upbringing. As the child, grandchild, and little brother of sergeants and petty officers, the Keep It Simple Stupid principle was drilled in fairly early. The Cramptons revel in soap opera thinking, so this might be right up their alley.

 

There's a consideration you didn't mention: If Jeanine attacks Brad, she attacks her sons. His wealth will (most likely) become theirs. To do that, she'd have to subjugate her maternal instincts or do some serious rationalization.

 

I must admit to liking the Jeanine theory. Fascinating really. A question though - does she really have the finances to be the money clip behind Amphion? Everyone talks about Stef having more money than God. Frankly, I can't remember her history at all.

 

I too was surprised by Cody's reaction to Brad's teasing. It seemed out of character. He's never done the whining thing before.

 

I'm pleased that Robbie's starting to think straight again. Brad is too.

 

Super chapter, Mark!!!

 

 

It would be ironic if Jeanine was behind it, and using Brad's own money against him. I think he'd notice the drawdown in the bank account....or maybe not. Maybe he neglects her and she spends money, so he assumes she's happy with that.

 

I don't see where Robbie and Brad are thinking "straight" at all.

 

 

[Henson]

First post. Sometimes the forum is more fascinating to read than the story itself.

 

To add to all of this speculation, how about someone from Wade's world? The timing of all of this is interesting, to say the least, and there's plenty of power and money sitting on the east coast, just waiting to stir up trouble...

[centexhairysub]

Jeanine started out as a nanny to Darius and after a sexual encounter with Brad, believe it started in or happened in a pool, became mother to Will. While she may have some well deserved anger issues, she once again is a character that doesn't have the financial resources to be the one truly behind all of this. To fund something like this would require hundreds of millions of dollars and no matter how disctracted Brad is, I think he would notice that much being missing... The other issues with this theory is that she came in after Brad/Robbie were graduating college. She would have not known anything about Dan or even really Lark, by that time he was really only involved with Max. I know I keep going back to it and no one else ever seems to agree but I think it is someone from Claremont. I guess Dan could have used his own money and then redirected/skimmed/stolen enough from the company he works for but such a huge amount seems unlikely.

 

The investment companies that seeded a lot of the tech companies during that time invested tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars on the deals. This isn't an amount that you just saved out of the grocery money or set up a line of credit for at the local bank. Now I guess they could have taken the profits from the first few deals and plowed that back in but still don't think they would have had the money that seems to be behind this other company.

 

Plus and I know this is really trivial, but doesn't it seem just a little cliche to have the one lesbian in this storyline turn out to be a total bitch???

 

P.S.... My only deal with it being someone from Wade's family is the tape that Matt/Wade have of Wade's father, I just can't see anyone in his family taking a risk that would come out. Wade had indicated that he really had never had any serious relationships with anyone before Matt, so why would anyone hate him that much??? Plus something like this would take years to set up, getting Brandon and Carson in position, etc... Wade has only been with the family less than two years at this point, not sure that is enough time.

Edited August 20, 2010 by centexhairysub

[rjo]

If this is a attack on Brad, I doubt if it is Jeanine I think she wants things to just go along is they are. Shes mad at Brad because he added another teenager Drew and both him and Robbie are leaving her with all the work. Also I think she's not too happy that Drew and Will are lovers at such a early age. Brad unlike JP has never included her in his plans or gone out of the way for her. Think of it she is setting at home taking care of the kids when both Brad and Robbie have these important powerful jobs. Throwing money at her is not the answer. Spending time with her caring about her is.

 

I agree that the mastermind has not been reviled yet. I still think it is Nick, Brad brother and maybe Brian both have good reasons to hate Brad. Also maybe Rev. Carmichael Brad's half brother.

 

One more thing this last chapter showed Robbie and Brad slowly getting things together. For once they are controlling things event are not controlling them.

 

I can't wait until the next chapter. Thanks Mark for a great story!

[Mark Arbour]

First post. Sometimes the forum is more fascinating to read than the story itself.

 

To add to all of this speculation, how about someone from Wade's world? The timing of all of this is interesting, to say the least, and there's plenty of power and money sitting on the east coast, just waiting to stir up trouble...

 

A posting cherry! Yeah!!!

 

Welcome, and thanks for sharing with us!

[Mark Arbour]

Plus and I know this is really trivial, but doesn't it seem just a little cliche to have the one lesbian in this storyline turn out to be a total bitch???

 

 

 

You're suggesting that most lesbians are bitches? Better watch this.

 

You guys are really good at working out these threads. You intrigue me, and I know what's happening.

[methodwriter85]

If this is a attack on Brad, I doubt if it is Jeanine I think she wants things to just go along is they are. Shes mad at Brad because he added another teenager Drew and both him and Robbie are leaving her with all the work. Also I think she's not too happy that Drew and Will are lovers at such a early age.

 

It's weird. When I was 13 back in '99, I knew kids who were having oral sex and the like and it didn't bother me at all. I started having oral sex when I was Drew's age of 15. But now at 24, I get pretty squirmy at the notion that Will's engaging in third base right now. I guess that's how age and perspective changes things.

[Mark Arbour]

It's weird. When I was 13 back in '99, I knew kids who were having oral sex and the like and it didn't bother me at all. I started having oral sex when I was Drew's age of 15. But now at 24, I get pretty squirmy at the notion that Will's engaging in third base right now. I guess that's how age and perspective changes things.

 

It may have more to do with you not getting any.

[methodwriter85]

It may have more to do with you not getting any.

 

Thanks. That made me feel SO much better, Mark. Two years, man. Two frickin' years and nothing. Ugh.

[Mark Arbour]

So now JP thinks he has to save Claremont.

 

I was pretty proud of myself for the way I tied John back in there.

[Caedus]

Not even JP can save Claremont from it's fate. Even in 99 globalism was already contributing to the decline in manufacturing in the Midwest. Hopefully Brad's interaction with Nick will be nothing like Bitty's(RIP). Jeanine would be pissed if she got shouldered with more kids. Seriously, he can help reform the system and give the closet cases more options, but that's pretty much it. I can't believe I thought we'd be done with Claremont after Granny Crampon passed. At this rate JP will likely kick the buck first.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, I liked how you brought John back in there. Although having it turn out that he's the boyfriend of Brad's oldest nephew seemed like a stretch, but eh, Claremont IS an inbred town. Isn't JJ like his own uncle or something? LOL.

 

You know, I protested you giving Harry such an old-fashioned name, but now that I think about it, Nick WOULD give his son a name that hasn't been popular in 50 years. He's seems like he would be old-fashioned and stuffy that way.

 

We'll see what JP cooks up to save Claremont. I actually think this makes a lot of sense in terms of his character- JP is 63 now, and in the twilight of his career. He's probabaly got retirement on his mind, and so he needs causes to campaign for. After reading Steven's diary, he probably has had nostalgic memories of what Claremont used to be like before the Rust Belt, and wants to make the town the way it used to be.

 

Urban renewal has had VERY mixed results throughout the 20th century and early 21st, but I'm betting if anyone is going to succeed at renewing a whole town, it'll be JP. And it's actually a pretty timely story- attempts at urban renewal of rust-belt towns really kicked up during the 90's, at least in my area. In the case of the college town I went to in Delaware, it was actually pretty successful. It went from an economically depressed town in the mid-80's to a prosperous town with loads of construction going on by the mid-90's. Of course, the town also had a rising state university there, and it man did it capitalize on it.

 

I can't believe I thought we'd be done with Claremont after Granny Crampon passed. At this rate JP will likely kick the buck first.

As long as Will doesn't meet and fall in love with some Hayes boy at the 2004 Fourth of July festival, I'm okay with it. I'm fine with Will and Brad having things in common. But having a repeat of Be Rad would be a little bit too much. It'd be like the last couple of seasons of Little House on the Prairie, where the show in its later years completely ripped off its own storylines from its early years.

 

As for the manufacturing stuff, I don't think JP's goal is to try and make Claremont into a center of manufacturing again. I'm thinking he wants to attract new, different kinds of jobs and people there.

Edited August 22, 2010 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

:wacko: :wacko:

 

Okay, I like how JP is tying things back to Claremont because I, at least, still believe the person that is really behind all of the business issues is someone from there... I know that it is totally illogical but until proven otherwise, I am sticking to that theory.

 

I cannot tell you how bad I think the idea of Brad sleeping with Matt will be... Nothing is ever really a secret and if three people know, at some point, in some way, this will come out. I don't think anyone else in the family will ever get over it. I think it could ruin Matt's relationship with Wade, I don't think Wade would object as much to a open declaration but doing it behind his back, isn't something he will accept. Robbie will never get over this, it doesn't matter what Robbie did, Brad sleeping with Matt is worse than anything that Robbie did or ever thought about doing.... Besides Wade and Robbie, I don't think anyone else in the immediate family is going to take this well. There is no diffrence between Brad sleeping with Matt and Brad and JP or Stef sleeeping together and does anyone think that is really a good idea??? Brad needs to be mature and think with his big head instead of his little head and help Matt get over this without it becoming more physical than a couple of kisses and gropes.

 

As always the writing and character development is wonder, keep the chapters coming...

[Hoskins]

Yeah JJ is JP's nephew and is a cousin to JP's kids, and is also Brad's nephew.

 

Here's where my mind gets blown (from another thread):

 

JJ is also a first-cousin-two-times-removed from his own father. I think. It makes my brain hurt: Tonto is his grandmother via Bitty. Tonto is also the sister of his, uh, grand uncle (?) Jack Crampton, who is also his grandfather via Jim Crampton.

 

I believe this gives him the ability to flex the fabric of space time.

 

*makes a mental note to put that CAP family tree back into circulation and get the spreadsheets to Jeremy*

[gjtravel2a]

While there are many differences, I still get the Woody Allen/Soon-Yi image now and then when I picture Brad & Matt. It would be a hell of a lot hotter, but still, it would hang over them all. The image I got while reading this most recent excellent chapter was that of Tim sitting on one shoulder of Brad's and Cody sitting on the other. As I thought about it, it was not in terms of good and evil, but more spiritually verses existential (in my more cynical mode, I might say theoretical verses practical or spoilsport verses fun party boy>>>). Were it so easy to keep a secet, Cody would be correct, but in my experience, it doesn't take three to challenge secrecy, it seems more often if even only one person knows something, it is hard to keep it to themselves. Example, Matts obsession with Brad, he just couldn't keep it even to himself! Now, something as hot as Matt and Brad getting together even once, were Cody not now involved, would be hard to keep, let alone this threesome (Back to threesomes again). There would be the looks/smiles/nuances that even Robbie would pick up on eventually...much less Stef. Matt and Wade talked about it in the past as something to do as a couple, that might be the only way it would not hurt them as a couple, but it would still eventually come out and that would trouble. Perhaps Tim's more 'sainted' approach would prove better for all. Less fun, but more....noble. Is Brad turning noble on us!?!?

 

There is an interesting assumption in some of the writing that Brad and Robbie will get back together, after Brad has made him feel the pain, but it is not a given. What is the actual price Brad will demand and will Robbie balk? He will regret it if he does, but he could be so short sited that he fails to meet the demand. Brad and Cody seem like a good fit, but would it really give Brad the stability he needs?

 

There was a nice moment with Jeanine and Brad at the table, but I would have my lawyers review any contractual paperwork regarding their living arrangement. If there is none, oy....

 

The swerve back to Claremont is a rather noble act and seems to confirm that JP is beginning to worry about his legacy as he sees Brad step more and more in role of godfather....Don Brad, eh?

 

Thanks for another great chapter!

gj

[Mark Arbour]

Well, as far as Brad and Matt are concerned, the die is cast. The chapter is written. It's done, however it turns out. You all should know next week.

[gjtravel2a]

Tis fun to have a forum such as this to share speculations....even knowing that Matt and Brad may alreay have slipped between the sheets as such in the written word and our ramblings won't change it, the various ideas are fun to see. Thanks for providing and guiding a fun 'speculatorium'!!!

[mmike1969]

You know, Carson is playing the Mommie card pretty hard and I am wondering if he's being used as a patsy too?

 

I too am surprised that Nick would wind up with a gay/bi kid. I am sure when the first lawsuits against the school, people's attitudes would go from bad to worse against John. Happened every single time a gay kid got harassed @ school and the school lost their lawsuits...

 

But that's where Nick would come in handy as the local DA... Unless he's part of the Amphion conspiracy.

 

Now I am wondering if this is not about Brad but about going against Stef and his company since most people would not have Millions of dollars just lounging around and Brad was just a ideal target. Hurt Brad and you hurt Stef?

 

Matt and Brad? Keep it a secret?? Sure, like JP kept his true heritage a secret for decades.

[Mark Arbour]

You know, Carson is playing the Mommie card pretty hard and I am wondering if he's being used as a patsy too?

 

I too am surprised that Nick would wind up with a gay/bi kid. I am sure when the first lawsuits against the school, people's attitudes would go from bad to worse against John. Happened every single time a gay kid got harassed @ school and the school lost their lawsuits...

 

But that's where Nick would come in handy as the local DA... Unless he's part of the Amphion conspiracy.

 

Now I am wondering if this is not about Brad but about going against Stef and his company since most people would not have Millions of dollars just lounging around and Brad was just a ideal target. Hurt Brad and you hurt Stef?

 

Matt and Brad? Keep it a secret?? Sure, like JP kept his true heritage a secret for decades.

 

It did work for decades.

[gjtravel2a]

Without trying to come off as some obsessed Millenniumfile, it is fun to wonder, Mark if your statement is:

1. A simple statement of fact that JP did keep his secret (and lord knows what else!) for years and reveals nothing about what you have written for Matt, Brad, et al.

2. Information tempting us to believe M&B will have this as a shared secret/bonding and probably one hot chapter in the next few days....

3. Dis-information tempting us to believe they will have that hot and erotic encounter when in reality they will remain chaste....or is it chased?

4. In a wild card, Matt and Brad run off to some south seas isle and open us a surf stand. This would be more like a bad 'Dallas' episode and it would end up being Aaron, who in a "Who shot JR" redux, would be the mystery person behind the plot! Gosh, I am glad you are in charge of the story and not the writers from Dallas...or even myself for that matter!!! I rather enjoy just reading your stories, thanks again for making them available to us, particularly as quickly as you do.

gj

[Mark Arbour]

4. In a wild card, Matt and Brad run off to some south seas isle and open us a surf stand.

 

 

They could go live with Aaron!

 

*rushes off to re-write Chapter 22*

[methodwriter85]

Really? I was thinking instead of that, Matt and Brad could eff like bunnies, and then Brad declares, "Sorry, Jeff- I mean, ROBBIE, I've got a new wonderful love now." And then Robbie goes beserk and accidentally dies by overdosing on a speedball. And then at the funeral, JJ, Will, and Darius talk about how they never much cared for Robbie anyway, and Brad talks about how Matt will make a much better father to the kids than Robbie ever did.

 

I'm sure that would go over extremely well in the fandem, Mark.

Edited August 22, 2010 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

Sure! Why not!?!

 

And then we have Matt wake up in the hospital, Jack telling him the transplant was a success and The Box and Mill. Stories never happened... Just like Dallas...