Labels...?

[Eros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZIA1AbT3J8&feature=feedu

In my response to this video, I'll just say, I'm not gay. I'm not straight. I don't mind being called "bisexual". But, overall, I'm just "sexual". The term "bisexual" is just the closest thing to describe my preference. Also, I mainly disagree with this guy's opinion, although I see his point. But, he basically claims that whoever says, "I don't like to be labeled", is just saying that to be nonconformist. But, I mean it when I say, I don't like being labeled. Sexuality is a consistent fluctuation. And as I said before, bisexual is just the closest thing to describe my preference. But, my official response to the question, "Are you gay, straight, bi...?" is, "I'm just sexual. Plain and simple."

So, what I'd like to know, is how you guys feel about this topic. I'm curious to see where you all stand on this, because it's pretty interesting.

-Eros

[TetRefine]

If people want to label me, they are going to and theres nothing I can do about it. Sexually, I strongly prefer guys but I still think girls are hot, but I wouldn't be rushing to jump into bed with them like with guys. So I guess the closest thing to that is 'Gay' hence why I put it in my profile. Although, I hate and avoid saying at all costs 'I'm gay' because that label denotes weakness and effeminacy to many people; two things I've worked hard throughout my life to not be.

 

We as people want to put everything into neat little categories because it makes it easier to distinguish us from them. But like you pointed out, sometimes people don't entirely fit into the category and vary widely. I'm gay, but would never want to live among the 'gay community' because its just something that makes me gag and is the anti-me. So, since I'm gay shouldn't that mean I wanna go to gay pride parades, do drugs and screw every guy I can get my hands on at the club, or not act like a real man? No. Gay, bisexual, lesbian, whatever are just like straight people. We have a wide variation among us, and there isn't a 'one size fits all' category like so many people believe.

[Tipdin]

The man in this video had some interesting points. He was awfully disrespectful, but if one can look past all the labels that come to mind for HIM, he addresses some valid issues. Many people try to avoid being pigeon-holed for good reasons. Humans tend to like everything nice and neat, especially their categories of right and wrong, good and bad. And most of us have a need to be accepted, even by those we don't particularly like for some reason. We fear being labeled because it might be a label that doesn't have the designer rating that we're taught to think is best.

 

Sorry Tet, but here comes the age thing - again. Usually, by the time someone gets to my "dinosaur-ick" age, labels no longer have the power they once had. Being gay once meant something so horrific, that I would rather have died than be thought of as 'one of them.' (And almost made it happen!) Today, being gay is not such a big deal for most people.

 

Being left handed used to be a big deal too. I refused to use my right hand and demanded left-handed desks in schoolrooms. Being a southpaw meant being different, and being different meant not-as-good-as...

 

Society has come a long way and so have I. Call me whatever you want, even OLD... big deal. (It's pobably an accurate label anyway!) Eventually, the old saying of sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me - actually comes true. It only matters now when it matters - to me.

[Mark Arbour]

I'm betting that the guy in the video runs into this answer a lot.

 

Guy in video: "Are you straight, gay, or bi?" He snaps fingers and does head move thing a few times.

Dude who is his victim: "Um, I don't believe in labels."

Guy in video: "What? You don't believe in labels? What are you, a can of soup...a box of crackers? What..."

Dude who is his victim cuts him off: "Well actually I was just trying to be polite and not hurt your feelings. I just don't like you."

[Conner]

Chris (the guy in the video)said everything he had to say in the first minute of the video. He spent the last two minutes just being an idiot.

 

Chris is of course entitled to his opinion on labels. It seems likely, given his largely effeminate presentation, that Chris got labelled at an early age as gay. He had no choice but to deal with it. So Chris doesn't mind labels. Good for him, but, frankly, I don't give a crap.

 

Chris' metaphor (soup labels)totally misses his own perspective. The people responding to him are saying - I don't want to be like a soup label.

 

In my view, labels can be damaging. They go hand-in-hand with stereotyping. Labels often involve someone's judgement on you. Consider the label "loser". How would you like to have to live with that?

[Cia]

Well how you label yourself is what's important. If you don't... great for you. Why care about what others think? I know that's a rosy view but for the most part I could care less what others think of me. They don't like it they can keep it to themselves or become intimately familiar with my middle finger. I'm bisexual but married to a man and have 2 kids. I liked to be with guys and girls before I met my husband and I never worried about the future spouse back then. It happened to be a guy and yeah, I don't tell my bi-selfness to some people, like my redneck biased dad, but if it were a part of my life other than doubling my opportunities to eyeball cute people I would. Right now it's no one's business but mine and it's not like anyone really asks. I mean... how likely is it for someone to look at a mom of 2 with a hubby and go.. hey, do you like to look at a girl's ass too? LOL

[Bleu]

Chris (the guy in the video) said everything he had to say in the first minute of the video. He spent the last two minutes just being an idiot.

 

Chris is of course entitled to his opinion on labels. It seems likely, given his largely effeminate presentation, that Chris got labelled at an early age as gay. He had no choice but to deal with it. So Chris doesn't mind labels. Good for him, but, frankly, I don't give a crap.

 

I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one who was thoroughly annoyed by this guy. For some people "I don't believe in labels" might well be a cop-out strategy... or maybe just a more polite way to say "Why the heck do you care? It's none of your business".

 

I mean it when I say, I don't like being labeled. Sexuality is a consistent fluctuation. And as I said before, bisexual is just the closest thing to describe my preference. But, my official response to the question, "Are you gay, straight, bi...?" is, "I'm just sexual. Plain and simple."

-Eros

 

I like your idea of sexual preferences being a constant fluctuation. It is particularly true when you're young and still experimenting sexually and maturing psychologically. Later on, you pretty much know the hierarchy of your preferences. However, as you age you also need to assert your place in society and these preferences can be somewhat rearranged to something more socially suitable.

I don't like to wear a label either because sexuality is not something people should judge me by. It's a personal subject, which only the closest people in my life should be privy to. Unless you're trying to hit on me, what is it to you?

 

Now, since he likes to categorize people so much, why doesn't he go further and create many more labels: gay mostly top, gay mostly botttom, etc. With bisexual people, it lends itself to a multiplicity of possibilities. He should have some fun!

 

 

I hate and avoid saying at all costs 'I'm gay' because that label denotes weakness and effeminacy to many people; two things I've worked hard throughout my life to not be.

I was suprised by this: do you mean that you consciously fought a natural tendency to be weak and effeminate (you just don't strike me as either of those) or do you just mean that you were always careful not to appear such because of the social stigma?

[paya]

I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one who was thoroughly annoyed by this guy. For some people "I don't believe in labels" might well be a cop-out strategy... or maybe just a more polite way to say "Why the heck do you care? It's none of your business".

 

 

 

I was suprised by this: do you mean that you consciously fought a natural tendency to be weak and effeminate (you just don't strike me as either of those) or do you just mean that you were always careful not to appear such because of the social stigma?

 

This guy is just too effeminate

 

 

I guess Matt was trying to say that coming from butch hick hills and valleys, they eat the effeminate guys for breakfast which means everyone there is butch, straight bi or gay

 

 

[TetRefine]

Paya is right. No, I'm not naturally weak or effeminate. I'm very much a manly man, and thats just how I am. I don't pretend to be very macho because inside I'm effeminate; I am macho because thats just how I naturally am. But like all people, I do do some things that could be considered weak or 'gay' by others, so I do those things in complete privacy or around people I trust (aka my boyfriend or parents).

 

Part of the reason I haven't come out yet completely is because I fear being labeled as weak and girly because I'm gay, even though I'm far from it. I have concluded to myself that I will prove to people over the next little bit of time that I am every much as masculine as my straight friends, and when I feel I've finally proven that beyond a reasonable doubt I will come out. I figure that if I leave no doubt in their minds to my masculinity, then even their preconceived notions can't override what I've proven to them.

 

There, you just got a look inside the psychology of the mind of TetRefine.

[TrevorTime]

OMG, the guy in the video is totally annoying. I sure do have a label for him, and it's not something someone under 18 needs to see.

 

Anyways, I'm very SA / SA (that's straight acting, straight appearing), but I have no qualms labeling myself as gay, because that's what I am. I'm not "confused" or bisexual; I know that I am 100% gay and I have zero problem with it.

[W_L]

Paya is right. No, I'm not naturally weak or effeminate. I'm very much a manly man, and thats just how I am. I don't pretend to be very macho because inside I'm effeminate; I am macho because thats just how I naturally am. But like all people, I do do some things that could be considered weak or 'gay' by others, so I do those things in complete privacy or around people I trust (aka my boyfriend or parents).

 

Part of the reason I haven't come out yet completely is because I fear being labeled as weak and girly because I'm gay, even though I'm far from it. I have concluded to myself that I will prove to people over the next little bit of time that I am every much as masculine as my straight friends, and when I feel I've finally proven that beyond a reasonable doubt I will come out. I figure that if I leave no doubt in their minds to my masculinity, then even their preconceived notions can't override what I've proven to them.

 

There, you just got a look inside the psychology of the mind of TetRefine.

 

Close enough to my psychology.

 

Let's see if you want to label me: I am blind, Asian, gay, and conservative.

 

All four carry stigmas with different areas. I am good in math, but I use my profession to mask it. I have a cane, but I usually don't use it as I can see out of one eye and hate using the thing. I donate to gay charities, but don't participate in parades or other stuff. I still have strong ties to conservative friends, but I don't tell everyone my political views in real life.

 

I guess a combination of the four has made me a man that strives and fight to achieve something in my life. I don't want to be looked down upon for my weaknesses or treated differently due to my thoughts. Perhaps, fundamentally, labels have power over you either as a positive or negative influence based on each person.

 

At least that is how I have come to see it.

[Eros]

Paya is right. No, I'm not naturally weak or effeminate. I'm very much a manly man, and thats just how I am. I don't pretend to be very macho because inside I'm effeminate; I am macho because thats just how I naturally am. But like all people, I do do some things that could be considered weak or 'gay' by others, so I do those things in complete privacy or around people I trust (aka my boyfriend or parents).

 

Part of the reason I haven't come out yet completely is because I fear being labeled as weak and girly because I'm gay, even though I'm far from it. I have concluded to myself that I will prove to people over the next little bit of time that I am every much as masculine as my straight friends, and when I feel I've finally proven that beyond a reasonable doubt I will come out. I figure that if I leave no doubt in their minds to my masculinity, then even their preconceived notions can't override what I've proven to them.

 

There, you just got a look inside the psychology of the mind of TetRefine.

 

I definitely understand where you're coming from. Explains myself in many ways.

[rustle]

I've been wrestling with this one for most of my life. Finally, I think I'm getting it. I'll never be a manly man. I hate team sports, I don't hunt or fish. But I love to spar with heavy weapons, backpack, and kayak in gator-infested waters. I'll never be a girly man: I hate ballet, I don't dance, and my favorite band is Nine Inch Nails. But I'm great with color and I know how to embroider. I'm left-handed when I write, shoot a gun right-handed, shoot a bow left-handed.

 

The past few years, a whole spectrum of human sexuality and gender has emerged from the shadows. Even as a gay man, I fight the urge to stereotype, to categorize, to label. Every single day. Because it doesn't matter what you wear, what you do, or who you do. It doesn't affect me.

 

Labels are convenient. Labels are crap.

 

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To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. ~e.e. cummings, 1955

 

 

[Skyline]

In my opinion its all pretty simple. Label yourself for convenience, not because you have to. Don't try to conform to fit perfectly into a group of people described by a label, and don't let your life be run by said labels. Thats all there really is to it as far as I'm concerned.

[Bumblebee]

omg that guy actually made me laugh he was so stupid haha

 

I'm a lesbian because I don't find guys attractive.

I'm not confused... I'm not bi, and I'm definitely not straight.

 

The only "Labels" I don't like is stuff like butch, femme etc.... but only for me lol

Lesbian Labels - I found this which is all the lesbian labels

being labeled a butch/boi means to some people that I want to be/look like a boy or that I have short hair or that I wear flannel all the time (just no to flannel shirts)

or being fem that I'm a weak blond fashion loving bimbo freak who doesn't do anything for fear that I might break a nail or ruin my hair.

Now if we were using labels, sometimes I'm alot more butch, and sometimes I'm a total lipstick lesbian.... I guess If I'm a label I would be a "soft butch"

 

The only "Label" I like, is that I'm a girl and that I'm a lesbian.... call me anything else fine but don't say it to my face and expect me to be nice about it

I don't really fit Labels so why bother trying to change something about myself just to please other peoples need to fit me in a box with everyone else

[Zolia Lily]

Wow, almost couldn't sit through that video.... eck!

 

Labels are a couple of things. They're easy, and convenient, and sometimes damn useful... but sometimes they're also restrictive. I never really saw it that way until a few months ago when i started to write a new story. This story contains a character (who is now my all-time favourite) but i didn't know what to call him. I spent weeks trawling internet sites and stories and forums and things all in the vain attempt to find a label that fits this character.

And i can't. I still haven't come up with anything that fits, that feels right. Nothing matches this character...

 

I hope no one is offended / weirded out by me talking about my character. My point is merely that people are way more complicated than my character is, and i beleive that people can be complicated enough that there aren't labels that fit everyone.

 

I don't feel like it's impossible for people to not know what they are or not want to define themselves.

 

 

[old bob]

Label, way to be better recognized by those around, really ?

 

The label is a way to hide its true nature, how to hide who you really are, to appear to everyone, wearing a mask and showing only your good sides (or your bad sides if you prefer it !)

Labeling is describing someone or something in a word or short phrase, a label.

The use of the term labeling is often intended to highlight the fact that the label is a description applied from the outside, rather than something intrinsic to the labeled thing. This can be done for several reasons:

To provoke a discussion about what the best description is,

To reject a particular label,

To reject the whole idea that the labeled object or person can be described in a short phrase.

 

From your reactions on my posts, comments and blogs (BTW most of them are deleted), from the nice phrases some members wrote about me during the 4 years I participated in GA, I can describe my label as “a quiet, peaceful, serene, cushy old bi man, more dreaming of the past than being active in the present”.

I hope you agree with my description, because it’s what I want to show. In fact, what you don’t see, is an old geezer, cynical, proud of his not always clean past.

 

As I found in Wikipedia about the “label” thing (see above), “a labeled person can’t be described in a short phrase”. So I don’t .

The best way to explain : I’m a “Janus”, like the two-faced Roman god of gates, doors, doorways, beginnings, endings and time, having two heads, facing opposite directions; one head looks back at the last year while the other looks forward to the new, simultaneously into the future and the past.

I’m a Janus with two faces : the face I show and the face which is my real face. That's my real label .

[TetRefine]

I've been wrestling with this one for most of my life. Finally, I think I'm getting it. I'll never be a manly man. I hate team sports, I don't hunt or fish. But I love to spar with heavy weapons, backpack, and kayak in gator-infested waters. I'll never be a girly man: I hate ballet, I don't dance, and my favorite band is Nine Inch Nails. But I'm great with color and I know how to embroider. I'm left-handed when I write, shoot a gun right-handed, shoot a bow left-handed.

 

The past few years, a whole spectrum of human sexuality and gender has emerged from the shadows. Even as a gay man, I fight the urge to stereotype, to categorize, to label. Every single day. Because it doesn't matter what you wear, what you do, or who you do. It doesn't affect me.

 

Labels are convenient. Labels are crap.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. ~e.e. cummings, 1955

 

 

 

Dude! Heavy weapons, backpacking, kayaking in gator waters! Sounds pretty damn manly to me. You may not like to do all manly things, but if you like to more manly things then not, then in my book you can consider yourself a manly man. I don't like to drink beer at all, I hate it. I would rather drink Mikes Hard Lemonade, or a Martini (often called vagina drinks ) but just cause I don't like drinking beer (which is considered something every manly man should do) doesn't make me less manly.

[Marzipan]

I'm a woman (at least I think I am) and I'm allowed to change my mind. For a while I thoughed I was straight. Then it turned out I like the ladies and really thoughed I'd be lesbian instead. Then came the "I must be bi". Now I'm just thinking outside the box. Love is love is love.

 

So putting myself in a strict box is just boring. I will, in the honor of this thread, go and take the tab "bisexual" out of my info box. That just doesn't tell the whole story of me. I haven't read that story yet myself.

[Toast]

My label is Bugeye, make of it what you will.

[Bleu]

Paya is right. No, I'm not naturally weak or effeminate. I'm very much a manly man, and thats just how I am. I don't pretend to be very macho because inside I'm effeminate; I am macho because thats just how I naturally am.

 

That's what I thought, but the way you phrased your first comment made me wonder.

[AndyM]

If we label (name) something, we think we understand it. Most things ... and all people ... are too complex to understand, so we label. It's not lazy ... it's how our minds work. When we mis- label, or label without attempting to understand, we may do harm. Labels change. Consider the evolution of terms used to label those now (mostly) called African-American. If we are aware of our tendency to label, we can look beyond the label, but it takes effort.

[Tipdin]

The human brain is set up to label things. Our brains automatically categorize and identify in order to understand and remember. All of that is simply the mechanics of neurotransmitters. The hurt only comes in when people treat each other badly because of a label.

 

...or worse, when we think of ourselves as being "less than" because we have bought into a negative view of a label. If someone believes that dragons and leprechauns live down the street, we'd dismiss them with a chuckle. But when someone believes in homophobia we take them seriously...?

 

If someone wants to believe in their meaning of the label of gay or godless or ugly, what the heck do I care? It is not my own belief and has nothing to do with me - I have no reason to pay any attention to such things. If they tell me I fit their label, ...so what...? I don't share their definition of those labels, so it's the same as if they were telling me that dragons have 5 legs and leprechauns are all over six feet tall. OK. Have another drink.

 

I am not obligated to believe that a given label means what YOU think it means. I do not believe that all leprechauns have red hair or Irish accents. Are you obligated to agree? So when I say that I believe that all gay men SHOULD be manly and have back hair, are you obligated to believe that as well? So why would any of us feel obligated to believe that being gay is inherently wrong or bad? Why would any of us believe that we can't be great writers, or great thinkers?

 

Why do we accept someone else's definition of a label? Really. Why do we buy into someone's ideas or beliefs? I don't think people under the age of 30 are as willing to automatically buy into the status quo as people of my generation or before me. I applaud that. Why should you? Being gay used to mean something so horrific that many of us committed suicide rather than give in to it. Now, I see young kids announcing their homosexuality almost as if it were a challenge.

 

The horror is gone. Cripe, the shame is gone and it's been replaced with an amazingly POWERFUL sense of... F-you!

 

I support that philosophy. If you want me to believe something, then give me a damn good reason - or get the hell out of my face.

 

I said it before, and I think it's worth repeating: Talk all you want. Label everything you want to label. It only matters to me when I decide it matters to me.

 

I'm glad that you young'ens are challenging, ...well, EVERYTHING! I say, go forth and remake the world! (But please make it better, not worse...)

Edited February 25, 2011 by Tipdin

[AndyM]

Yeah, what Tipdin said. That's what I wanted to say.

[rustle]

Dude! Heavy weapons, backpacking, kayaking in gator waters! Sounds pretty damn manly to me. You may not like to do all manly things, but if you like to more manly things then not, then in my book you can consider yourself a manly man. I don't like to drink beer at all, I hate it. I would rather drink Mikes Hard Lemonade, or a Martini (often called vagina drinks ) but just cause I don't like drinking beer (which is considered something every manly man should do) doesn't make me less manly.

 

 

Thanks for the vote for manliness, but I do things because they're fun or interest me.

 

I'm with you on the beer. Wild Turkey or Cuervo Gold, on the rare occasions that I drink.