Lifestyle

[jamiiewhiite]

Dear friends,

 

So a very close friend of mine came into town for a visit. I haven't seen her in over a year. We were catching up over dinner. With wine in my hand and she sober (being the responsible driver) we came on the topic of one of her friends who came out to her. When I came out to her a few years ago, I remember it not being such a big deal. We were still friends. She didn't bat an eye. As far as I could tell, nothing has changed but we never really talked about it after that. So when she told me about her friend coming out to her and she said it was a lifestyle choice, I got really confused. She said she didn't care what the gay community did. It was none of anyone's business to who I love. I should have the opportunity to be miserable just like the rest of the world she said jokingly. Which I can totally agree on but what got me is that she thought it was a choice and a certain lifestyle that I choosen to live. It kinda threw me for a spin. I mean on one hand she's supportive but on the other, she thinks I choose to do this to myself... Which is bull. I was buzzed at the time but now thinking about it, I'm really conflicted. She been a friend of mine since 8th grade.

 

So what do you guys think? Should I approach her on the subject or leave it be? And if I were to, what should I say?

 

Lovealways,

Jamie

[1Coley]

Personally, I think that you should let this one go. If she doesn't have a problem with gay people, or their "lifestyle," then I wouldn't press the issue. It's her opinion and she's entitled to it. Why potentially put a rift between you two if she's okay with how you live your life, but simply has a different view on it? This is just my opinion, take it or leave it...but I hope it helps.

[Nephylim]

This is a really tricky one. Is it worth straining or breaking the relationship over something this small? On the other hand is it something small? Is it something that is important to you. Different people have different feelings about the subject. To some it's important; to some it's not. Is it something that is going to ruin the relationship anyway because you'll think of it every time you see her and gradually confusion will turn into anger and it will be a real barrier between you?

 

Only you can know

 

If you do decide to tell her I would suggest you do it in a non confrontational way. For examply.... You know what you said the other day about being gay is a lifestyle choice well I've been thinking and that;s not the way I see it, can we talk about it? Give her your point of view and if she's a friend she'll either accept it or accept your opinions differ. If she makes a huge deal of it then I think you can assume that she wasn't that easy with it in the first place.

[Former Member]

Personally, I would bring it up but in a non confrontational way. Only because it would niggle at me until I knew for sure how my friend came to the opinion that it was a' chosen lifestyle'.

I had a discussion with someone once, a similar one to which you've brought up. I was told that my desires may not be a choice but my acting on them was a choice.

What can you say to ignorance?

[J_C_Lawrence]

You should understand that what affects a person to come out or be known to be gay is due to his evironment and his biological predisposition to be a homosexual. There are some people who choose to be on the pretext that they only realized they were gay, due to the fact that they were affected by their stimulus or environment. If you isolate a rednecked man in a town where homosexuality is non-existing and his latent propensity to be gay is never tested, then how can he himself say that he is gay? There are some situations where a person becomes gay, and thus is associated with the lifestyle choice of being gay, when he lets his environment influence him to become one.

 

There are people who realized they are not gay when they reach their mid-forties or early thirties, while living a lavish homosexual lifestyle in their youths, and in the aftermath become straight. They may be deemed as bisexuals but either way, it's a broad spectrum of sexuality to limit oneself to one category. If we, the homosexual community, revere people who come out of the closet and pronounce their homosexuality to the world as something forthcoming to their true nature, how about those who thought they were gay, due to their chosen environment, who realized that they were straight all along.

 

Albeit the percentage of this ever to happen is slim to one, there is that possibility occuring. Imagine a son brought up by two gay parents who expects their son to be gay as well. Nonetheless, the same expectation that men fall under the stereotype that they have to be attracted to the opposite sex.

 

I watched a commercial in youtube about a guy who was scared shit of admitting to his gay parents that he is straight. A parody if you must percieve, but still...it is the same logic that applies to a gay man being affected by his surrounding and succumbing to a lifestyle he has chosen on the pretext that he thought he was gay, or thinks he is straight.

 

Most of us are born this way, according to Lady Gaga, and some are made to be this way. Even the laws of inertia applies to such logic, action and reaction, cataclysm equates to pandemonium.

 

And for those who were made to be gay because of their homosexual environment, being gay is still a lifestyle choice that is dependent on the person who sees which action plan he wishes to take...to which breaks down all the stereotypical homosexuals out there who chooses to live a life so farfetched to the preconcieved notions of soceity.

 

If i were you, just explain to your friend that she does not have the righ to say that it is a lifestyle choice, but ask the person (her friend) if she has made that choice of being gay and accepting her homosexuality.

 

I am not overgeneralizing that being gay is or not a lifestyle choice, but to some...it is or has been.

[jamiiewhiite]

Personally, I think that you should let this one go. If she doesn't have a problem with gay people, or their "lifestyle," then I wouldn't press the issue. It's her opinion and she's entitled to it. Why potentially put a rift between you two if she's okay with how you live your life, but simply has a different view on it? This is just my opinion, take it or leave it...but I hope it helps.

 

I totally agree with having your own opinion. I might just let it go. There's no point to starting something up. What bothers me is, is she really my friend if she knew what I believe.

She might be ignorant on the subject. If I can't maybe shed some light on it then maybe she would have a change of heart. People sometimes need to be educated. If not then nothing in the world would ever change.

Just my take on it.

 

 

 

[Cyhort]

I hate when people call it a "lifestyle". Who you're attracted to has nothing to do with how you live your life and it doesn't help that a lot of gay people seem to think the same way. Honestly, it just sounds like she's misusing the term because everyone else does. Like when people say "could care less" when they really mean "couldn't care less". I wouldn't worry too much about it. It it bothers you then maybe the next time it comes up politely correct her but it's not something to get offended over. She doesn't seem like she has a problem with anyone being gay, just not a full picture of what it means.

[JamesSavik]

Oh Yeah. I'm stupid enough to chose to be gay and take on all the bullshit that goes with it. I personally decided to be gay because you get your ass kicked so much better this way than wearing a kick me t-shirt.

 

F-ing idiots.

 

The only people that think homosexuality is a choice and call it a lifestyle are religious retards nuts.

 

I don't want to disparage retards.

[KYE]

The only people that think homosexuality is a choice and call it a lifestyle are religious retards nuts.

 

 

I do not necessarily think that is true. I know many people that do not have a religious bone in their body but still think being Gay is a lifestyle choice. We cannot blame everyone with negative and ill-informed views about one being Gay upon Religion.

[KYE]

So what do you guys think? Should I approach her on the subject or leave it be? And if I were to, what should I say?

 

Lovealways,

Jamie

 

This would be a hard thing to give firm advice to you upon, not knowing her or how true of a friend she is to you. The question is how good of a friend is she and how open-minded do you think that she truly is? Maybe you feel you can educate her upon her opinions but only you can really know what her reaction as your friend could be. At the same time is her opinion killing your friendship to her, if you constantly wonder what her true opinion of you is everytime you meet? Good Luck with how you decide to approach this for it is obviously something that is bearing heavy upon your mind.

[jamiiewhiite]

If you do decide to tell her I would suggest you do it in a non confrontational way.

I can say our relationship is strong enough to withstand it. In our friendship, I can't remember a time when we ever fought on anything. And it shouldn't the case here. I was just surprised that's all. I never knew she felt that way and if I was gonna talk to her about it, it would just be in a nonconfrontational way. I don't think she would take it badly. I just want to know why she thinks the way she does.

 

Thanks for you input Nephy:]

[jamiiewhiite]

I was told that my desires may not be a choice but my acting on them was a choice.

What can you say to ignorance?

I find this to be most sound. I took a lot out of your advice and a agree wholeheartedly.

Thanks for the advice!

[jamiiewhiite]

F-ing idiots.

The only people that think homosexuality is a choice and call it a lifestyle are religious retards nuts.

 

I agree with KYE. I feel like you were mis-outspoken. My friend is not religious at all to say the least. Plus she has no animosity towards gay people.

I just thought you should know that. She a great person and I do not fault her for having her own opinion or that I fault you. Just think before you say things like that. Its all I ask

[jamiiewhiite]

There are people who realized they are not gay when they reach their mid-forties or early thirties, while living a lavish homosexual lifestyle in their youths, and in the aftermath become straight. They may be deemed as bisexuals but either way, it's a broad spectrum of sexuality to limit oneself to one category. If we, the homosexual community, revere people who come out of the closet and pronounce their homosexuality to the world as something forthcoming to their true nature, how about those who thought they were gay, due to their chosen environment, who realized that they were straight all along.

Most of us are born this way, according to Lady Gaga, and some are made to be this way. Even the laws of inertia applies to such logic, action and reaction, cataclysm equates to pandemonium.

If i were you, just explain to your friend that she does not have the righ to say that it is a lifestyle choice, but ask the person (her friend) if she has made that choice of being gay and accepting her homosexuality.

I am not overgeneralizing that being gay is or not a lifestyle choice, but to some...it is or has been.

 

I have to say I'm not completely sure what you are getting at. Is it the whole nature vs. nurture argument?

I can understand that evironment plays a role in it maybe. I am not an expert or that I claim to be. I'm just as confused to it as how it happens. But from my upbringing, I had a very stabled if you will environment. I was adopted at a very young age to a very loving and 'straight' parents. We are basically the all American family. I'm am an only child. I grew up with a normal childhood. I played sports and join the band. My parents all supportive. It was straight as straight lifestyle can get. All of my friends are straight as well. I live in the south of the United States and if anything I'm very sheltered to the whole gay community since I live in the 'bible belt.' But in the end I know I"m gay. I'm not sure if the environment has to do with anything but I could be completely wrong.

 

I will agree that not everyone is born the same way and things happen in the environment to change you perception. Like I say I am not an expert. I'm sure people can 'change their mind' if you will due to their environment. You make some really good points and I will take them into consideration.

[jamiiewhiite]

This would be a hard thing to give firm advice to you upon, not knowing her or how true of a friend she is to you. The question is how good of a friend is she and how open-minded do you think that she truly is? Maybe you feel you can educate her upon her opinions but only you can really know what her reaction as your friend could be. At the same time is her opinion killing your friendship to her, if you constantly wonder what her true opinion of you is everytime you meet? Good Luck with how you decide to approach this for it is obviously something that is bearing heavy upon your mind.

 

I can safely say that if I did confront her, I am sure we still would be friends. I was just confused to why she might have thought that but you make a good point. Thanks for the luck

[JamesSavik]

I agree with KYE. I feel like you were mis-outspoken. My friend is not religious at all to say the least. Plus she has no animosity towards gay people.

I just thought you should know that. She a great person and I do not fault her for having her own opinion or that I fault you. Just think before you say things like that. Its all I ask

 

 

You're from Georgia. Maybe not as deep in the heart of the bible belt as Mississippi but the influence of religion is still deeply ingrained.

 

Look up any speech on the subject by say... Eddie Long.

 

The KEY to the idea that gay people are unclean and are unworthy of Christian forgiveness is the idea that homosexuality is a choice.

 

I don't remember ever making such a conscious decision. I've never met anybody that has.

[jamiiewhiite]

I don't remember ever making such a conscious decision. I've never met anybody that has.

 

And I completely agree with you. I just thought what you said earlier had nothing to do with what I was saying.

I feel you man. Its a horrible world out there sometimes

[Conner]

Throughout the centuries, ignorance has caused considerable human suffering. However, when ignorance is combined with religious fervor,the results have been even more horrific. A very simple example and one that can be easily researched is left-handedness. When I was a kid, you did not want to be left-handed and Catholic.

 

I am of the view that the belief that homosexuality is a concious choice is a belief based in ignorance. The science that is available predominantly points to biologic/genetic causes. Is it definitive? No, it isn't. Are behavioral/environmental factors involved as well? More than likely, but that's just a guess on my part - part of my own ignorance I suppose.

 

The religious right maintains this position of ignorance. It serves their purposes. I need not get into the damage this has caused gay people.

 

Do gay people have a responsibility to inform and educate here? I believe so and we should do so whether there is a religious element involved or not.

 

When you ask the members here at GA for their views, not all of them will be sugarcoated.

[jamiiewhiite]

When you ask the members here at GA for their views, not all of them will be sugarcoated.

 

I wasn't expecting for them to sugarcoat anything. I was not surprised or offended.

I am not so ignorant to not know the world. I maybe sheltered but I am not stupid. And I do not act as if I am an expert.

If anything this whole discussion has gone off topic. It is not what I originally asked.

[Michael9344]

I have tire of this argument. Everybody around here has swallowed the idea that being gay is a lifestyle. Even most 'gay' ppl themselves believe in the ridiculous idea. I've learnt to put a blind eye when someone says that because they've swallowed it hook and nail. It's most times useless trying to make them see fit.You might have to mention it to her that it's not a lifestyle. And keep it cool.

[Graeme]

From many years of experience, I can say that most of the time when there's such a fundamental disagreement, it almost always comes down to definitions.

 

In this particular case, what is "gay"?

 

The 'clinical' definition is 'homosexual', which in turn means 'sexually attracted to the same sex'.

 

However, 'gay' is also used to mean 'effeminate', as well as a synonym for 'gay lifestyle' - with the latter meaning gay clubs, etc.

 

If you start looking at the different definitions, you can see:

 

1. It's not a choice to be a homosexual.

 

2. It's not a choice to be effeminate (which may or may not also mean that you're homosexual - the two, while correlated, are not synonymous).

 

3. It is a choice as to how you live your life - including how you act on your homosexuality.

 

I'm gay, but I don't live a gay lifestyle (eg. married with two kids is not typically considered to be part of the 'gay lifestyle'). To be honest, that's not really a choice I made, but more an product of the environment in which I grew up in. I could, if I wanted to, choose to become part of the 'gay lifestyle', but I'm unlikely to do so because my family is too important to me, and at my age I don't see how I could have both.

 

It's possible that Jamie's friend is talking about the way a person lives, with some nebulous concept of a 'gay lifestyle' (I've never really heard a decent definition of what a 'gay lifestyle' is - more a case of 'I know it when I see it' response), and not about sexual attraction. I'm not saying that that is the case - just presenting it as a possibility.

[TetRefine]

Hmm, well like James said, I don't ever remember making a choice of what I liked. If I had the choice, I would have (back then) never in a million years chosen to be gay. It caused a lot of personal problems (and to some extent still does), and completely isolated me from what I saw back then as the 'ideal teenage boy'. I fought it for so long, but the harder I tried to get rid of it, the stronger the urges became. Also, leading a double life is no fun and is mentally exhausting. Some days I look back on those days and its a wonder I didn't go crazy and/or put a gun to my head.

 

A lot of people have it in their head that gays are effeminate, wimpy whores who suck every dick and screw every ass that is put in front of them. Many view it as a culture out on the fringes that could never be 'normal'. Well, when I told people I broke that stereotype in their mind. They were shocked that someone like me could actually be gay. A guy who played sports, had all straight friends, had aspirations (and still do) to serve in the Army, etc could be a fag. I honestly wish I could have recorded the looks on some of the faces. They were priceless.

 

There is no gay lifestyle. There will always be the tweeking whorish club boys, the monogamous couple with the white picket fence in the suburbs, the jocks, the geeks, the fems, the masculines, on and on and on.

 

Tell me. Can you really lump all straight people into one category? Answer: No. Same goes for gay/bi/lesbian/trans or whatever.

 

Anyone who believes that many people would make a choice to go through hell in one point of their life or another is f**king retarded.

[JamesSavik]

I can't be gay. I don't listen to dance music and I'd rather fish than shop.

 

That's such a relief.

[colinian]

From many years of experience, I can say that most of the time when there's such a fundamental disagreement, it almost always comes down to definitions.

 

In this particular case, what is "gay"?

 

The 'clinical' definition is 'homosexual', which in turn means 'sexually attracted to the same sex'.

 

However, 'gay' is also used to mean 'effeminate', as well as a synonym for 'gay lifestyle' - with the latter meaning gay clubs, etc.

 

If you start looking at the different definitions, you can see:

 

1. It's not a choice to be a homosexual.

 

2. It's not a choice to be effeminate (which may or may not also mean that you're homosexual - the two, while correlated, are not synonymous).

 

3. It is a choice as to how you live your life - including how you act on your homosexuality.

 

I'm gay, but I don't live a gay lifestyle (eg. married with two kids is not typically considered to be part of the 'gay lifestyle'). To be honest, that's not really a choice I made, but more an product of the environment in which I grew up in. I could, if I wanted to, choose to become part of the 'gay lifestyle', but I'm unlikely to do so because my family is too important to me, and at my age I don't see how I could have both.

 

It's possible that Jamie's friend is talking about the way a person lives, with some nebulous concept of a 'gay lifestyle' (I've never really heard a decent definition of what a 'gay lifestyle' is - more a case of 'I know it when I see it' response), and not about sexual attraction. I'm not saying that that is the case - just presenting it as a possibility.

Doug and I, and my brother Chris and his boyfriend, don't live a gay lifestyle. And it is a choice we all made, individually and together. We don't go to gay bars or clubs, we don't walk nearly naked in the Pride Parade, we're not gay activists, we don't wear badges that proclaim that we're gay. For us being gay is normal. If someone asks "Are you gay" we say "Yes" and see where the conversation leads. We do all of the normal sorts of things like all other people where we live. We go out to restaurants, we go shopping, we go to the local frozen yogurt shops, we go to school, we go hiking, we go to the local sports bars, we go to the YMCA and exercise, we go to Peet's and hang out and drink coffee, Chris and I go cross country skiing, all of this like anyone else who isn't gay. We like to think that we're normal guys who just happen to be gay. It's no biggie.

 

Colin

[Former Member]

From many years of experience, I can say that most of the time when there's such a fundamental disagreement, it almost always comes down to definitions.

 

In this particular case, what is "gay"?

 

The 'clinical' definition is 'homosexual', which in turn means 'sexually attracted to the same sex'.

 

However, 'gay' is also used to mean 'effeminate', as well as a synonym for 'gay lifestyle' - with the latter meaning gay clubs, etc.

 

If you start looking at the different definitions, you can see:

 

1. It's not a choice to be a homosexual.

 

2. It's not a choice to be effeminate (which may or may not also mean that you're homosexual - the two, while correlated, are not synonymous).

 

3. It is a choice as to how you live your life - including how you act on your homosexuality.

 

I'm gay, but I don't live a gay lifestyle (eg. married with two kids is not typically considered to be part of the 'gay lifestyle'). To be honest, that's not really a choice I made, but more an product of the environment in which I grew up in. I could, if I wanted to, choose to become part of the 'gay lifestyle', but I'm unlikely to do so because my family is too important to me, and at my age I don't see how I could have both.

 

It's possible that Jamie's friend is talking about the way a person lives, with some nebulous concept of a 'gay lifestyle' (I've never really heard a decent definition of what a 'gay lifestyle' is - more a case of 'I know it when I see it' response), and not about sexual attraction. I'm not saying that that is the case - just presenting it as a possibility.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there Graeme