Paternity

[centexhairysub]

Well, I am late getting to this chapter; this time of year always seems to bring out all these hidden and buried issues that people have and I get so much busier...

 

I really liked the new chapter, I was actually missing Will. I don't think Will's behaviour was out of line at all, he has been mad at his mother for a long time; but that doesn't mean that he doesn't love her. Will and his mother will probably never have a typical relationship but if they don't end up with some type of relationship then I don't think it will be Will's fault.

 

I hope that Will actually gets to spend a little time with Alistair; I think they would both benefit from the experience. I do have to wonder how much of this is will really wanting to get to know Alistair and how much is another way for him to annoy JJ???

 

Okay, on to what I think is the heart of this episode, what is the freaking deal with Robbie and JJ??? Is Robbie trying to use the issue of Jeanine as a way to win a battle with Will and is he doing it to show solidarity with Brad or in spite of Brad? I know that Robbie has always held onto grudges better than Brad, is he still fighting the battle with Will over his independence? I am just really confused by his actions and attitude here. The bigger issue for me really is JJ. I just don't understand how his whole personality can change 180 degrees over the last couple of stories versus where it was when the kids started to be introduced in the stories before the last couple. I know he has hit his teen years and has entered a sports field at a very high level but that just isn't enough to cause this change, at least not as a rule. I am starting to wonder if JJ wasn't molested or had some other trauma that he never told anyone about or that Mark hasn't made us aware of yet. I had two friends that I knew growing up that both made the upper levels of skating and tennis at the junior level. They were both among the best in the world at that level, neither made it as far on the senior level. I knew them before, during, and after they reached that level and neither they nor the people that I met through them had such a complete personality transformation just from moving into that level of competition. The guy I knew was a skater and the tennis player was a girl. They both left Texas to train in Colorado and Florida respectfully but that didn't become a completely different person in doing so. Even if you through in an issue with siblings, that never were there before; it just doesn't explain JJ's complete transformation.

 

p.s. I did a search and found over 20 world class athletes that go by the name JJ, am a little unclear why this name is considered immature?

[PrivateTim]

I don't think it's that Will isn't into socializing- he is- he's just not willing to play the social game b.s. that is so prevalent in high school. I thought the Menlo party scene made that abundantly clear. Whereas Brad was all about trying to control everyone at Gunn High, Will's more along the lines of being that guy in high school who was just cool and didn't play games with people. For example, High School Brad would have likely befriended Carter while plotting to destroy him socially, as in "keep your friends close and your enemies closer." Will would never do that.

 

And I hope Alistair sticks around, too. JJ does still go to HW and Alistair is his friend, so I'm sure he'll stick around.

 

I'm kind of surprised that JJ hasn't demanded that his family call him Jeremy yet and not the baby nickname. I'm sure that will come up at some point the further along JJ gets into his career, with JJ wanting to be called his actual name because it's more mature and he's trying to hold his own against the twentysomething greats in figure skating.

 

The one reason I can think of would be that at this point, JJ's in no kind of hurry to grow up yet and so it hasn't occured to him yet that JJ is not actually a grown-up name to get called.

 

I am sure it won't surprise you I completely disagree

 

We didn't see Brad in his Freshman year at Gunn so we don't know how he was. Will was establishing himself as the BMOC in his class due to the rafting trip. The legend of his big tool would get around, the coolness of drinking and smoking out, his makeout abilities, etc. Will was getting cred and he wasn't even on the big campus yet.

 

Will also isn't at Menlo yet, he's only been to one party. I also think in the same circumstances Brad would have decked Carter too. The same circumstances being that he didn't already know Carter and Carter was being a dick.

 

I also wouldn't call "JJ" a baby name, it is a cool nickname and I had a good friend who went by JJ all his life. It is like the nickname was Snookie-umms. JP has been JP for ever, why not JJ?

[methodwriter85]

We didn't see Brad in his freshman year, correct, but we're also supposed to think that Will is more physically and emotionally closer to being that of a high school junior or senior.

 

Will was establishing his popularity by being cool and nice to people- not by being the social tyrant that Brad was depicted as being, and playing the kind of games that Brad would play. My deal is that Brad would have likely put on a front to get people to like him- Will doesn't do that, because while I'm sure he doesn't mind people liking him and looking up to him, he doesn't need to be Social King the way Brad did, or Matt does. That is why Will is above the social game of high school- he'll make friends and enjoy them, but he won't play games. A male version of Mean Girls wouldn't suit Will as a character.

 

As for the nickname stuff, my family has called me JR since I was little. It annoys me. Hence, I'm projecting that onto JJ because Mark gave JJ some very similiar personality traits. Sure, I guess I probably shouldn't, but hell- I cringe at reading the stuff that JJ does while remembering the very bitchy things I could say when I was his age so it's hard not to project because he reminds me so much of myself at 14.

 

As for JJ's personality change...two things to consider- within the span of a year, he watched his two dads nearly implode in on themselves, and he watched his mother completely break down. That's a tough thing for a 14-year old boy to handle, and I think it'd be hard to maintain a happy, cheerful personality while going through that.

 

I also think that Mark is writing JJ kind of similiar to how he wrote Jim in The Box...maybe a case of nature over nurture?

Edited December 5, 2012 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

We didn't see Brad in his freshman year, correct, but we're also supposed to think that Will is more physically and emotionally closer to being that of a high school junior or senior.

 

The so called "Will is physically like an 18yo" argument has no bearing on the reality of a freshman's status and standing in a high school. The pecking order remains. And we have seen Will doesn't have the emotional maturity of an 18 yo, I am not sure he has the emotional maturity of a 14yo.

 

As for not playing games, Will is already a master gamer and manipulator.

 

And for Brad, when you have gotten to the top of the social pecking order, be it in high school or life, you don't have to work at making people like you, in fact you can be kind of a dick (think Darius) and people still want to be your friend.

 

[MJ85]

I don't think Will is above the social scene at all. He seemed to enjoy the social interaction on the rafting trip, he is obviously hurting from his lack of interaction with Ryan and he is reaching out to Alistair.

 

His interactions with Ryan and Alistair I would call more isolated interactions with them specifically, thus being a different animal of sorts.

 

The rafting trip...yes. A lot has changed since then. Maybe a better way to put it would be, if he does start at Menlo and ultimately, virtually no one likes him that much...so what? Life goes on. Maybe back around the time of the rafting trip it would have mattered more, but now? Seems like not so much.

[methodwriter85]

You're right, MJ. Think about it- this a guy who just got himself emancipated at the age of 14. As we've seen at the Menlo party, bowing down to the uber-elite of high school upperclassmen is just not something he's going to do, not if he doesn't like these people. Someone who was aiming for social king would have made the effort to play by their rules, and Will pretty much gave the middle finger to that crowd, showing that while he wants friends(which is natural), he's not going to make friends with people that are total assholes in order to better his social standing. And note that the one friend that Will did make was Noah, who is heavily implied to be more of a wannabee joke as opposed to someone who is legitimately accepted by the in-crowd.

 

So much of high school b.s. is based around the feeling that everything you do in high school is life or death, and that everything and every move is so important. A guy who has gone through what Will has gone through from July to November of 2000 just isn't look at typical high school situations of "I don't know where to sit in the cafeteria" or "the cool kids don't want to talk to me" and find them all that important. That is where Will is going to differ massively from a typical 14-year old guy.

Edited December 6, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

The school environment will always matter to someone like Will. For him, as he moves into high school (HW freshmen are still with the middle-schoolers and below), it becomes as much of a social as an academic environment, and quite frankly, that will be a big change for him. And while freshmen are freshmen, some freshmen are cool enough to be accepted by upperclassmen. I can see Will falling into that category.

 

I think the point Jeremy is making is that Will isn't as focused on projecting his power onto others as Brad is. He's pointing out that Brad was into controlling other people, and wielding power, while Will is less interested in that kind of personal power. At this point, as long as he's in control of his own life and destiny, he's not overly fixated on what other people are doing. It's quite possible that will change.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Mark Arbour

[Mark Arbour]

Well, I am late getting to this chapter; this time of year always seems to bring out all these hidden and buried issues that people have and I get so much busier...

 

I really liked the new chapter, I was actually missing Will. I don't think Will's behaviour was out of line at all, he has been mad at his mother for a long time; but that doesn't mean that he doesn't love her. Will and his mother will probably never have a typical relationship but if they don't end up with some type of relationship then I don't think it will be Will's fault.

 

I hope that Will actually gets to spend a little time with Alistair; I think they would both benefit from the experience. I do have to wonder how much of this is will really wanting to get to know Alistair and how much is another way for him to annoy JJ???

 

Okay, on to what I think is the heart of this episode, what is the freaking deal with Robbie and JJ??? Is Robbie trying to use the issue of Jeanine as a way to win a battle with Will and is he doing it to show solidarity with Brad or in spite of Brad? I know that Robbie has always held onto grudges better than Brad, is he still fighting the battle with Will over his independence? I am just really confused by his actions and attitude here. The bigger issue for me really is JJ. I just don't understand how his whole personality can change 180 degrees over the last couple of stories versus where it was when the kids started to be introduced in the stories before the last couple. I know he has hit his teen years and has entered a sports field at a very high level but that just isn't enough to cause this change, at least not as a rule. I am starting to wonder if JJ wasn't molested or had some other trauma that he never told anyone about or that Mark hasn't made us aware of yet. I had two friends that I knew growing up that both made the upper levels of skating and tennis at the junior level. They were both among the best in the world at that level, neither made it as far on the senior level. I knew them before, during, and after they reached that level and neither they nor the people that I met through them had such a complete personality transformation just from moving into that level of competition. The guy I knew was a skater and the tennis player was a girl. They both left Texas to train in Colorado and Florida respectfully but that didn't become a completely different person in doing so. Even if you through in an issue with siblings, that never were there before; it just doesn't explain JJ's complete transformation.

 

p.s. I did a search and found over 20 world class athletes that go by the name JJ, am a little unclear why this name is considered immature?

 

You mentioned some of this in your review. Here's my response, to complete the cycle:

 

You raise an interesting point about JJ. As mature for his age as Will is, so JJ is immature for his. Take that, and put the poor kid into a total pressure cooker, and I think that's bound to squeeze the cheerfulness out of him. What is his life really like right now? He skates, but that's not really going all that well, at least in his mind, since he'll still be brooding over Norway. The competitive pressure in a sport like that, where JJ is a future Olympic contender, is crushing. His main support, his mother, is hospitalized. He's got Robbie there, but JJ really does seem to rely on one parent, so I think that while he's glad Robbie's there, he's probably not entirely sure he can fully count on him. (Robbie probably knows that, and that explains some of his over-the-top support of JJ). And he's got this brother who seems determined to completely screw up his life, yet JJ can't really escape him. He's at school. He's at family events. He could show up at home at any minute.

Personally, I think it's amazing that JJ's not in the hospital with his mother.

[methodwriter85]

You mentioned some of this in your review. Here's my response, to complete the cycle:

 

You raise an interesting point about JJ. As mature for his age as Will is, so JJ is immature for his. Take that, and put the poor kid into a total pressure cooker, and I think that's bound to squeeze the cheerfulness out of him. What is his life really like right now? He skates, but that's not really going all that well, at least in his mind, since he'll still be brooding over Norway. The competitive pressure in a sport like that, where JJ is a future Olympic contender, is crushing. His main support, his mother, is hospitalized. He's got Robbie there, but JJ really does seem to rely on one parent, so I think that while he's glad Robbie's there, he's probably not entirely sure he can fully count on him. (Robbie probably knows that, and that explains some of his over-the-top support of JJ). And he's got this brother who seems determined to completely screw up his life, yet JJ can't really escape him. He's at school. He's at family events. He could show up at home at any minute.

Personally, I think it's amazing that JJ's not in the hospital with his mother.

 

That does make a lot of sense. It kind of feels like when it comes to JJ, this kid is walking on a bridge made of sand that could collapse any second. Knowing that he's walking a pathway towards a dream that will never get fufilled makes it even more precarious.

 

Will going off to Menlo will be good for JJ, but even better for JJ would likely be a move to New York City, Chicago, or maybe Europe after he finishes high school. That would be a way for him to develop his own network that Will can't intrude on. I think when they're in their mid-20's, they'll be happily skyping each other weekly, but at 14/15, it's really hard for two warring siblings to reconcile totally.

 

Anyway, thanks for the back up on Will. It's not that I think Will doesn't enjoy being social or would pass up being well-liked, but at the same time, acitvely campaigning to be social king like Andy and Matt did in Cross-Currents wouldn't be his style. I just can't see him buying into the high school mindset of "Oh, gawd, the seniors don't like me. I'm ruined forever!" that a lot of high school freshmen and sophomores buy into.He's more along the lines of the kid that was popular because he was actually cool and was friendly to everyone, not the "intimidation popular" that Brad was. The kind of "high school angst of peer pressure and upperclassmen intimidation" would be better suited to someone like John or JJ, I think.

Edited December 6, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

The so called "Will is physically like an 18yo" argument has no bearing on the reality of a freshman's status and standing in a high school. The pecking order remains. And we have seen Will doesn't have the emotional maturity of an 18 yo, I am not sure he has the emotional maturity of a 14yo.

 

That certainly wasn't my experience of high school. Elementary school was towards that, but in high school the social order snapped and realigned not along grades but along interests and activities. I was a freshman second, and a member of the soccer team or whatever first. Judging by how cliques have been described to me, that seems to be how it works more often than not. Age and grade might be a subclassification, but you're a football jock or a AV nerd first.

[methodwriter85]

He skates, but that's not really going all that well, at least in his mind, since he'll still be brooding over Norway.

 

I'm wondering where JJ will fit into the Evan Lysacek/Johnny Weir rivalry of the 2000's. He'd likely side with Evan, but it'll be interesting see if JJ is going to be right up there with them, or several notches behind. If JJ is always right behind them but never winning over both of them, I can see that driving JJ crazy, his friendship with Evan be damned.

 

I'm just itching for the inevitable cat fight between Johnny Weir and JJ, especially if JJ decides attending a well-regarded university on the East Coast with one of the best figure skating clubs in the country is a good way to prepare for 2006.

Edited December 6, 2012 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

I am sure it won't surprise you I completely disagree

 

We didn't see Brad in his Freshman year at Gunn so we don't know how he was. Will was establishing himself as the BMOC in his class due to the rafting trip. The legend of his big tool would get around, the coolness of drinking and smoking out, his makeout abilities, etc. Will was getting cred and he wasn't even on the big campus yet.

 

Will also isn't at Menlo yet, he's only been to one party. I also think in the same circumstances Brad would have decked Carter too. The same circumstances being that he didn't already know Carter and Carter was being a dick.

 

 

We didn't see Brad in his freshman year, correct, but we're also supposed to think that Will is more physically and emotionally closer to being that of a high school junior or senior.

 

Will was establishing his popularity by being cool and nice to people- not by being the social tyrant that Brad was depicted as being, and playing the kind of games that Brad would play. My deal is that Brad would have likely put on a front to get people to like him- Will doesn't do that, because while I'm sure he doesn't mind people liking him and looking up to him, he doesn't need to be Social King the way Brad did, or Matt does. That is why Will is above the social game of high school- he'll make friends and enjoy them, but he won't play games. A male version of Mean Girls wouldn't suit Will as a character.

 

 

The so called "Will is physically like an 18yo" argument has no bearing on the reality of a freshman's status and standing in a high school. The pecking order remains. And we have seen Will doesn't have the emotional maturity of an 18 yo, I am not sure he has the emotional maturity of a 14yo.

 

As for not playing games, Will is already a master gamer and manipulator.

 

And for Brad, when you have gotten to the top of the social pecking order, be it in high school or life, you don't have to work at making people like you, in fact you can be kind of a dick (think Darius) and people still want to be your friend.

 

 

Okay, I am going to start by disagreeing with Tim but then he and I have never seen Will the same way; I think that Will is really mature for his age and would put him up against most of the 17 to 19 year olds I deal with on a daily basis... That being said, I agree with Tim on this more than Jeremy. I think because of the circumstances Will already knows how to play the game way better than 99% of the kids in any high school. I also think that Will cares about what others think and were he is in the social strata; no he isn't going to make it a priority but he still cares. Anyone that says they don't care what others say about them or how others view them are either out right lying or deluding themselves.

 

Will has a lot going for him even going into a new school. He is rich, not just his family but he is already rich and has control over the money, plus his family is going to be so much wealthier than 95% of any of the families of the kids attending Menlo. He is physically mature and as written attractive, plus he is very well hung; that matters when you are in high school... He is also smart and athletic and both of these are big pluses as well. Will is also openly gay plus he has experience with a girl as well; in some areas this would be a detriment but not at Menlo. The fact that he is openly gay gives him a level of confidence that even those that may not agree with his choice will apperciate.

 

Will has already proven that he can be manipulative and can use his physical prowess to intimidate. I do agree that Will is not going to obsess about his spot on the pecking order but he is going to be aware of it and will care about it. Even with his level of " independence ", Will isn't going to just float through high school as if he is untouched but what is happening around him.... Will may not need to be the Social King, but he doesn't want to be the Joker either...

 

I really can't believe I am agreeing with Tim about anything, even partially; damn, I may need to call my therapist...

[PrivateTim]

That certainly wasn't my experience of high school. Elementary school was towards that, but in high school the social order snapped and realigned not along grades but along interests and activities. I was a freshman second, and a member of the soccer team or whatever first. Judging by how cliques have been described to me, that seems to be how it works more often than not. Age and grade might be a subclassification, but you're a football jock or a AV nerd first.

 

Unless you were a varsity star your freshman year, you were still a freshman even inside of your social cocoon.

[methodwriter85]

Am I the only one who thought the middle school was much more socially stratfied and mean than high school was? Middle school was basically killed or be killed. High school had some of the same leftover b.s., but it wasn't nearly as bad because people had their own activities and groups to be part of. Especially by senior year- most of the petty bullshit was over and people were more or less cool with each other. People were too into doing their own thing to care all that much about what people who were in other groups were doing to really bother with them. The only people who really got messed with where the people that tried too hard to fit into groups that they didn't really belong to, i.e. the wannabees like Noah.

 

As for Will...the way I have him pictured is like a high school "floater", i.e. the popular guy in high school who could be friends with people in all different groups and find something in common with all of them. There were people in high school that were popular because they were geuninely likeable and friendly to everyone, as opposed to the people in high school who were popular because they intimated the shit out of people like Carter, and I think Will would be the former.

Edited December 6, 2012 by methodwriter85

[sat8997]

I really can't believe I am agreeing with Tim about anything, even partially; damn, I may need to call my therapist...

 

I know, right? It's happened to me a couple of times, too.

 

And I agree with everything you (and by extension, sort of, Tim) said.

[MJ85]

Am I the only one who thought the middle school was much more socially stratfied and mean than high school was? Middle school was basically killed or be killed. High school had some of the same leftover b.s., but it wasn't nearly as bad because people had their own activities and groups to be part of. Especially by senior year- most of the petty bullshit was over and people were more or less cool with each other.

 

Rigid social "orders" simply did not exist in my neck of the woods. If they had, then I would not have been able to do things like hanging out with juniors and seniors during lunch hour while a freshman or sophomore. (That said, lunch was also not completely confined to a cafeteria at my high school, either.) Note that I say rigid orders though, because while people obviously had their friends that they were closer to and friends that were not-so-close, things like cross-class socialization were not exactly social blasphemy.

 

And for what it's worth, correct me if I'm wrong but Jeremy (methodwriter, not JJ) has the exact same HS timeframe as Will. I, being class of 2003, would be just one year ahead.

[B1ue]

Unless you were a varsity star your freshman year, you were still a freshman even inside of your social cocoon.

 

Well, actually.... Keep in mind, I went to a very small high school. Stardom wasn't exactly difficult.

 

In any case, I did say age and class level were a secondary sort, or as you put it, there were certainly freshmen within the cocoon. But people caught more flack by stepping outside their primary social status than by ignoring ages. A senior nerd could date a freshman nerd, but eyes were raised all around if she were to date a senior stoner. Will might not be the apex of the pecking order when he starts at Gunn (though that will depend on Ella and John, won't it?), but he's certainly going to stand out and be higher ranked than could be expected. Look at how, for instance, Claire was treated in Be Rad. She was a freshman, but she ruled right along side Ace and Brad. And Billy was able to pull rank on at least one person old enough to drive.

[Mark Arbour]

Okay, I am going to start by disagreeing with Tim but then he and I have never seen Will the same way; I think that Will is really mature for his age and would put him up against most of the 17 to 19 year olds I deal with on a daily basis... That being said, I agree with Tim on this more than Jeremy. I think because of the circumstances Will already knows how to play the game way better than 99% of the kids in any high school. I also think that Will cares about what others think and were he is in the social strata; no he isn't going to make it a priority but he still cares. Anyone that says they don't care what others say about them or how others view them are either out right lying or deluding themselves.

 

Will has a lot going for him even going into a new school. He is rich, not just his family but he is already rich and has control over the money, plus his family is going to be so much wealthier than 95% of any of the families of the kids attending Menlo. He is physically mature and as written attractive, plus he is very well hung; that matters when you are in high school... He is also smart and athletic and both of these are big pluses as well. Will is also openly gay plus he has experience with a girl as well; in some areas this would be a detriment but not at Menlo. The fact that he is openly gay gives him a level of confidence that even those that may not agree with his choice will apperciate.

 

Will has already proven that he can be manipulative and can use his physical prowess to intimidate. I do agree that Will is not going to obsess about his spot on the pecking order but he is going to be aware of it and will care about it. Even with his level of " independence ", Will isn't going to just float through high school as if he is untouched but what is happening around him.... Will may not need to be the Social King, but he doesn't want to be the Joker either...

 

I really can't believe I am agreeing with Tim about anything, even partially; damn, I may need to call my therapist...

 

I thought this was a very good description (except for that part about Tim being right).

[methodwriter85]

Well, actually.... Keep in mind, I went to a very small high school. Stardom wasn't exactly difficult.

 

In any case, I did say age and class level were a secondary sort, or as you put it, there were certainly freshmen within the cocoon. But people caught more flack by stepping outside their primary social status than by ignoring ages. A senior nerd could date a freshman nerd, but eyes were raised all around if she were to date a senior stoner. Will might not be the apex of the pecking order when he starts at Gunn (though that will depend on Ella and John, won't it?), but he's certainly going to stand out and be higher ranked than could be expected. Look at how, for instance, Claire was treated in Be Rad. She was a freshman, but she ruled right along side Ace and Brad. And Billy was able to pull rank on at least one person old enough to drive.

 

John's in 8th grade, which means he's still in the middle school part of Menlo, so he's not that much of a factor. I generally agree with what you're saying. We had a middle school combined with the high school, so the only real time eyebrows would be raised for ignoring age would be if you were in 10th or 11th grade dating an 8th grader. That would get some serious ribbing. (To the best of my knowledge, there wasn't a senior dating someone in 8th grade, although I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.)

 

MJ, not exactly. I started out with the class of '04(A December 7th, 1985 birthday gets you cut off to start with the 2003 class even in California, let alone in New Jersey), but I had to graduate with the class of 2005. I was held back in first grade over concern about my reading level. So my high school years(2001 to 2005) actually correlate exactly to John's. If we see John's perspective during his senior year of high school, I'll get to play such illustrious hits as this for senior prom:

 

 

True by Ryan Cabrera

 

If I recall correctly, at my senior prom the faculty basically had to force the DJ to play old stuff like Footloose by Kenny Loggins and

(Napoleon Dynamite for the win!) because they were so sick of having to listen to wall to wall hip-hop at proms. 2003-2005 was when hip-hop was really wall to wall and hard to escape, so I couldn't blame them. I really, really welcomed it when Green Day made their big comeback when I started college.

 

'05 turned out to have been a good year to have graduated though- it was the last entering class before my school initiated a lottery for people to get in, and it was the year before the implementation of the new SAT system. On a personal level, the class of 2004 and the class of 2006 had some seriously annoying people in them. It's not to say my class didn't- but by junior/senior years we had all mellowed out in a way that the '04 and '06 people hadn't. So I was happy to be a "5" boy.

 

 

Not my school, but eh. '05 forever!

Edited December 7, 2012 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

I wonder if some of the difference isn't about class or school size??? My high school only had 9-12 grades but didn't have four hundred students all together, my graduating class had eighty-two and that included four exchange students from Sweden. I think that in smaller schools the freshman versus senior lines get blurred more easily. It was the age or class that created groups at my school. The groups at my school were more along the lines of brains, jocks, stoners, cowboys/shitkickers, nerds, alternative, preppy, etc... We all crossed the age/class line very easily, it was much harder to go from group to group....

[rjo]

Well, my high school class was 49. It was also a area Lutheran High school so the major arguement was why we couldn't have dancing for the senior prom. Those Lutherans are so very uptight and straight laced ( during the late 60's when the rest of the world was havng free love ). I would agree that Will can relate to any group. He cares about what people think but it is low on his list. Somebody said he wants to be his own person, and that is the most important thing to him. All the Drama which has happened was about that and now he seems to be in a good place. Now is the time for Will to show he is not just a spoiled brat. I think his concern for Jeanine shows that coming out.

 

On a different track, I would agree Will's interlde was with John Carillo. If I remember a very handsome Itatian lad. John is so very much more stable person than Tony. In a few years they maybe very good for each other.

[Daddydavek]

The latest chapter of Paternity provides more insight into the growth of Will on many levels. I especially liked the exchanges between Will and Wade's grandmother while riding and the refinement of Will's motivation regarding his mother. Well done!

 

Of course the chapter also provided another episode in Will's charmed sex life and as I said in my chapter review, I somehow think Mark has a soft spot for Will.

[MJ85]

On a different track, I would agree Will's interlde was with John Carillo.

 

Isn't this obvious?? Honestly, I wonder what the point was by not having him identify himself somehow.

 

That said, I wasn't thrilled by Will even going to that party. It's one more thing that points to the question of, "does Will even need a school setting at this point?" since he can basically go and socialize with whomever he wants now, willy-nilly (no pun intended). Having to be in a high school environment for education is starting to seem more and more like something holding him back at this point more than it is anything else - and I'm very hard-pressed to believe that that would be a good thing.

[Mark Arbour]

The latest chapter of Paternity provides more insight into the growth of Will on many levels. I especially liked the exchanges between Will and Wade's grandmother while riding and the refinement of Will's motivation regarding his mother. Well done!

 

Of course the chapter also provided another episode in Will's charmed sex life and as I said in my chapter review, I somehow think Mark has a soft spot for Will.

 

The author has a soft spot for hot guys with big dicks. Then again, who doesn't?

 

I thought that ride (on horses) was a good opportunity to recap the horrible history these guys have had with their mothers.

 

Isn't this obvious?? Honestly, I wonder what the point was by not having him identify himself somehow.

 

That said, I wasn't thrilled by Will even going to that party. It's one more thing that points to the question of, "does Will even need a school setting at this point?" since he can basically go and socialize with whomever he wants now, willy-nilly (no pun intended). Having to be in a high school environment for education is starting to seem more and more like something holding him back at this point more than it is anything else - and I'm very hard-pressed to believe that that would be a good thing.

 

School is a rite of passage, and it's not an option for someone like Will. Yeah, he could have tutors, but that really negates the whole socialization point . Not just with the parties, but reinforcing how to interact in a closed social environment.

[MJ85]

School is a rite of passage, and it's not an option for someone like Will. Yeah, he could have tutors, but that really negates the whole socialization point . Not just with the parties, but reinforcing how to interact in a closed social environment.

 

Except he's not really interacting in the "closed social environment" now, anyway. Yeah, he's on his way out of HW, but there's really no evidence to show that he'll want to talk to people at Menlo, either. The significance of Menlo as it stands right now seems to be one that's less that it's Menlo and more that it's "anywhere but HW".

 

With his constant forays into the adult world - being emancipated, constantly hooking up with 18-and-overs, and now the upcoming legal battle over Jeanine's care - dealing with high school really seems like nothing more than "kid stuff" as opposed to actually being important for the sake of his education and such. With the way he is now, having to deal with a "closed" HS social environment comes off as purely a step backward.