Paternity

[MJ85]

At the risk of donning a Captain Obvious hat ... With Wade and JJ, again we have a case of common ground. I suspect that will be something that could be built on VERY quickly, depending largely on how often (or not) Wade interacts with him.

[PrivateTim]

My impression of the Cramptons is that like Turner Construction, Kiewit, Hensel Phelps and many others their fortunes really took off in the post WWII boom. They were successful companies before, but became billion dollar companies after.

 

I really liked the scene between Jeff and Matt because in all the fun we have here it is nice to remember the very real world of homeless and throwaway gay kids and the missions that guys Father Tim run all over the US.

 

The only disappointment I had in the dinner invite list was Nana not being there. Of all the people who might be able to reach through to JJ I think she has a better shot than most of snapping him back to the real world.

[methodwriter85]

My impression of the Cramptons is that like Turner Construction, Kiewit, Hensel Phelps and many others their fortunes really took off in the post WWII boom. They were successful companies before, but became billion dollar companies after.

 

I really liked the scene between Jeff and Matt because in all the fun we have here it is nice to remember the very real world of homeless and throwaway gay kids and the missions that guys Father Tim run all over the US.

 

The only disappointment I had in the dinner invite list was Nana not being there. Of all the people who might be able to reach through to JJ I think she has a better shot than most of snapping him back to the real world.

 

Yeah. I just didn't get the impression that the Cramptons are "old money" the way the Danfields are. They're not "nouveau riche" like Robbie Hayes is, but they seemed more like an affluent family who didn't start reaching the stratosphere until the second half of the 20th century.

 

I did like the deal with Jeff, and the reminder that Matt really did hit the adoption jackpot, even though his parents were kind of assholes to him for a couple of months. I did like how Gathan found Matt kind of arrogrant and didn't really seem to like him all that much, either. I think there's gotta be this certain "blue blood" bearing to Matt that people who know he's got trashy white trash roots would probably find annoying.

 

I think Nana could be a good influence on JJ. I'd love it if through her, JJ came to like learning about certain subjects, such as art history or literature. I think JJ would be good at those kind of subjects.

[rjo]

It is not often that I agree with both Tim and Jeremy, but I do in this case. I think the comment about Matt acting as a blue blood and not as his white trash roots was good. Matt did not know unti; he was 18 about his origins. Part of this as modified because of Robbie's wealth and his relationship to the family. Even JP sided with Matt over Brian from the beginning. Matt just fit in to the family seemlessly. The people who had a harder life, Marcel. Gathan, and both Jeffs did not. Look how Wade fit in, He was not from any of the three families but seemlessly  fit in . This last story show us how true it is, Almost 100 chapters and the duo of Wade and Will work so well. Why do Gathen and Marcel work better as side characters than narrators? I believe we as readers were and are more invised in Wade and Will than we were in Gathen and Marcel. The only big surpise is Matt. I think he came across more likable and because of his kidneys and his qwest to find his father he won us over.

 

Tim called my storyline twisted, I'm not sure about it being so twisted mainly because many of these things have happened before. an adopted child, a clue dropped chapters before and those Hayes looks all make it possible. Whether Jeff is a long lost part of this family or not isn't the point Jeff has been a interested character so far, he also has more polish than Gathan has. most of the time he has come across as a good guy, and the other times make him even more interesting.

[Mark Arbour]

It is not often that I agree with both Tim and Jeremy, but I do in this case. I think the comment about Matt acting as a blue blood and not as his white trash roots was good. Matt did not know unti; he was 18 about his origins. Part of this as modified because of Robbie's wealth and his relationship to the family. Even JP sided with Matt over Brian from the beginning. Matt just fit in to the family seemlessly. The people who had a harder life, Marcel. Gathan, and both Jeffs did not. Look how Wade fit in, He was not from any of the three families but seemlessly  fit in . This last story show us how true it is, Almost 100 chapters and the duo of Wade and Will work so well. Why do Gathen and Marcel work better as side characters than narrators? I believe we as readers were and are more invised in Wade and Will than we were in Gathen and Marcel. The only big surpise is Matt. I think he came across more likable and because of his kidneys and his qwest to find his father he won us over.

 

Tim called my storyline twisted, I'm not sure about it being so twisted mainly because many of these things have happened before. an adopted child, a clue dropped chapters before and those Hayes looks all make it possible. Whether Jeff is a long lost part of this family or not isn't the point Jeff has been a interested character so far, he also has more polish than Gathan has. most of the time he has come across as a good guy, and the other times make him even more interesting.

 

Tim also said he liked it.  It's entirely possible that Jeff is related to the Hayes family.  Then again, I already did that once.  

[Mark Arbour]

At the risk of donning a Captain Obvious hat ... With Wade and JJ, again we have a case of common ground. I suspect that will be something that could be built on VERY quickly, depending largely on how often (or not) Wade interacts with him.

 

Sometimes the obvious isn't really that obvious.      

 

Wade and JJ may have common ground, but only Wade knows that.  As far as we know, the only people who know about Wade's abuse by his father are Matt, Brad, JP, Stef, and Robbie.  (If I missed someone, let me know).  I don't think Wade's told Will about it, and he hasn't told Nana either.  

 

In order for Wade to come forward and share his story with JJ, and reach out to him, he has to reveal that he was abused.  (Duh).  I don't know that Wade feels comfortable enough to trust JJ with that.  My guess would be that he doesn't.  

[MJ85]

Ah. I hadn't thought of that, that only so much of the family knows about Wade's abuse. I was thinking of us the readers, to whom it is painfully obvious.

 

I'm thinking you're right that Wade wouldn't feel comfortable sharing that with JJ all on his own - but that could be where Matt comes in to help with that. Even then, I'm under no illusions that it'd be just that simple, but I do think that the most likely "common ground" scenario would involve Matt.

[rjo]

To answer both of you. I feel that JJ's  situation calls for everybody to step up and help. Wade may find this hard but I feel he will do the right thing. His is governed  by duty, he has done a lot of things which were distasteful because they were the right thing to do. If this family who opened their arms for him needed his help how could he not help. I think both Matt and Will are going to help Wade and JJ with this.

 

Back to my feeling that Jeff is another Hayes boy. Mark has repeaded a number of situtions in the past. I feel they only make the story richer. Many of my friends have started reading the saga and have been overwhelmed with all the characters. Which is sad. I think they only add to the richness of the story. It makes the saga more real, about real people. One of Mark's great strengths is that his characters jump off the page. They seem to have the same flesh and blood we do. They have the same problems, same joys and same sorrows. We can relate to them better than any other characters. This is what brings me back time after time. Honestly I hope Jeff is related to Robbie and the Hayes's it would only heighten the interest and tension.

[methodwriter85]

It is not often that I agree with both Tim and Jeremy, but I do in this case. I think the comment about Matt acting as a blue blood and not as his white trash roots was good. Matt did not know unti; he was 18 about his origins. Part of this as modified because of Robbie's wealth and his relationship to the family. Even JP sided with Matt over Brian from the beginning. Matt just fit in to the family seemlessly. The people who had a harder life, Marcel. Gathan, and both Jeffs did not. Look how Wade fit in, He was not from any of the three families but seemlessly  fit in . This last story show us how true it is, Almost 100 chapters and the duo of Wade and Will work so well. Why do Gathen and Marcel work better as side characters than narrators? I believe we as readers were and are more invised in Wade and Will than we were in Gathen and Marcel. The only big surpise is Matt. I think he came across more likable and because of his kidneys and his qwest to find his father he won us over.

 

I think it's fascinating to discuss why some narrators work well, and others do not. That is an incredibly good point that the two narrators percieved as "failures"- Marcel and Gathan- were people who came from a rougher background and didn't really fit seamlessly into the family like Matt and Wade did.

 

I know Mark's not from an "ultra rich" family, but if you go by how he described his family socioeconomic status in On The Mark, he seems to have come from an affluent, upper middle class background, meaning that it might be harder for him to get into the mindset of people who come from a blue-collar background. I'm from a poor background but I went to college with mainly upper middle-class kids at U of D (it was where affluent Jersey and Long Island kids typically went), and when I went to graduate school in a solidly working class Western Pennsylvania town called Indiana, I was shocked by how different the mindset is. Indiana is similiar in being a rust belt town like Zanesville (which Claremont is modeled on), and there's this very tough, blue collar mindset there despite there being a big university.

 

As for the "repeating of situations"...hmm. I think there are some things that can be homages, and history does have a way of repeating itself in some way. What myself and the rest of Mark's writing team try to steer him away from blatantly playing out the same storylines from older books with younger model characters. For example, if you brought in someone that could be a Hayes, that's one thing. If Mark brought in a Hayes who was looking for his father because he needed a bone marrow match, or a Hayes who was found being raised in Europe with mean parents, that'd be what we call a "redux" or a rehash of a previous storyline that was already done well in the first place. Re-hashing storylines (which is what Little House on the Prairie did when they introduced a "new Nellie" and a "new Laura" in the form of Nancey Oleson and Jenny Wilder) is the sign of a t.v. series or book series that is running on fumes creatively. What would be the point of reading a Matt Carrswold re-hash if we already have Bloodlines to read? 

 

I've talked to someone who stopped reading the series because he felt like Mark was setting up Will as being a "Brad Redux", as in Mark was going to give Will Brad's old storylines but just with new names and younger characters and have it take place in the 2000's instead of the 1980's. So far, Mark's done a great job in making Will his own character and not a knock-off of Be Rad. He's had similiar things occur to Will that occured to Brad when he was young, but at no point reading Poor Man's Son or Paternity did I think, "Wow, didn't we already do this in Be Rad?"

 

Now, that's not to say that Mark shouldn't have similiar situations re-occur, because that's life. So as long as it was done creatively in a way that didn't make one think, "Wait, didn't Mark already do this with Marcel and Matt?", I'm sure it'd be a good storyline.

Edited February 24, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I think it's fascinating to discuss why some narrators work well, and others do not. That is an incredibly good point that the two narrators percieved as "failures"- Marcel and Gathan- were people who came from a rougher background and didn't really fit seamlessly into the family like Matt and Wade did.

 

You state this as if it's a fact.  I liked Gathan's character.  I liked "Poor Man's Son."  I wasn't as fond of "A Summer Love," but that had less to do with Marcel than with the story (there were parts I liked, and parts I wish I would have written differently).  Just because you didn't like either one of those guys doesn't prove they were bad narrators.  It just means you're wrong.  

 

 

I know Mark's not from an "ultra rich" family, but if you go by how he described his family socioeconomic status in On The Mark, he seems to have come from an affluent, upper middle class background, meaning that it might be harder for him to get into the mindset of people who come from a blue-collar background. I'm from a poor background but I went to college with mainly upper middle-class kids at U of D (it was where affluent Jersey and Long Island kids typically went), and when I went to graduate school in a solidly working class Western Pennsylvania town called Indiana, I was shocked by how different the mindset is. Indiana is similiar in being a rust belt town like Zanesville (which Claremont is modeled on), and there's this very tough, blue collar mindset there despite there being a big university.

 

It's not easy to write what you don't know, so you're right, capturing a blue-collar family and their daily struggles just to make ends meet probably isn't my forte.  

 

As for the "repeating of situations"...hmm. I think there are some things that can be homages, and history does have a way of repeating itself in some way. What myself and the rest of Mark's writing team try to steer him away from blatantly playing out the same storylines from older books with younger model characters. For example, if you brought in someone that could be a Hayes, that's one thing. If Mark brought in a Hayes who was looking for his father because he needed a bone marrow match, or a Hayes who was found being raised in Europe with mean parents, that'd be what we call a "redux" or a rehash of a previous storyline that was already done well in the first place. Re-hashing storylines (which is what Little House on the Prairie did when they introduced a "new Nellie" and a "new Laura" in the form of Nancey Oleson and Jenny Wilder) is the sign of a t.v. series or book series that is running on fumes creatively. What would be the point of reading a Matt Carrswold re-hash if we already have Bloodlines to read? 

 

Definitely something to avoid, the repetition, and something you do a great job of helping me with. 

 

I've talked to someone who stopped reading the series because he felt like Mark was setting up Will as being a "Brad Redux", as in Mark was going to give Will Brad's old storylines but just with new names and younger characters and have it take place in the 2000's instead of the 1980's. So far, Mark's done a great job in making Will his own character and not a knock-off of Be Rad. He's had similiar things occur to Will that occured to Brad when he was young, but at no point reading Poor Man's Son or Paternity did I think, "Wow, didn't we already do this in Be Rad?"

 

You're telling me I should give a shit about a guy who stopped reading my stories because he was worried about what I might do?  Seriously?  Here's  a secret: I don't.  

 

I write because it's fun.  If people want to come along for the ride, that's great.  If they don't, and no one reads what I'm writing, then it's probably a good time to retire.  But at the same time, I'm not going to let anecdotal evidence influence me.  I have some bitchy queens here who don't like me, and as soon as they see me post a chapter, they run and rate it with one star.  That's the guy you talked to.  But the other readers chime in, and chapters end up with 4-5 stars.  That's more reflective of what the sample population thinks.  (See:  Grad School:  Research Methods).  

Edited February 24, 2013 by Mark Arbour

[Mark Arbour]

To answer both of you. I feel that JJ's  situation calls for everybody to step up and help. Wade may find this hard but I feel he will do the right thing. His is governed  by duty, he has done a lot of things which were distasteful because they were the right thing to do. If this family who opened their arms for him needed his help how could he not help. I think both Matt and Will are going to help Wade and JJ with this.

 

Back to my feeling that Jeff is another Hayes boy. Mark has repeaded a number of situtions in the past. I feel they only make the story richer. Many of my friends have started reading the saga and have been overwhelmed with all the characters. Which is sad. I think they only add to the richness of the story. It makes the saga more real, about real people. One of Mark's great strengths is that his characters jump off the page. They seem to have the same flesh and blood we do. They have the same problems, same joys and same sorrows. We can relate to them better than any other characters. This is what brings me back time after time. Honestly I hope Jeff is related to Robbie and the Hayes's it would only heighten the interest and tension.

 

I'm not sure I see Wade coming forward to that extent.  He's loyal, and has a strong sense of duty, but that's going to work against disclosure.  If he tells JJ about his father, and JJ gets into a bitchy snit and reveals what Wade said, Senator Danfield's career is over.  And Wade will have to bear the stigma of what happened to him as a public badge, because it will be out there.  In this case, I think he'd see his duty and loyalty demanding that he keep his mouth shut and not say anything about it.  

 

Now, if JJ shows Wade that he's trustworthy, then Wade may consider it, but I don't think JJ is in a position, nor does he have the maturity, to convince Wade that he's reliable enough to trust with confidential secrets.  

[rjo]

What is so interesting is that after reading the saga over and over again, there are so few times, so very few times that I don't agree with how you've written a character. Over three million words and as a reader I have gotten to know these characters and how they would react to a situation. Almost all of the time you are right on to what I think. When Brad took the hammer to Robbie's car I was not happy but I could see Brad do it. I think that is remarkable. It shows how well crafted each character is. One thing that impresses me the most is how you have taken Will on his journey from a bitchy teenage to the young man we have now. Even Tim agrees with me and that is something.

[methodwriter85]

Now, if JJ shows Wade that he's trustworthy, then Wade may consider it, but I don't think JJ is in a position, nor does he have the maturity, to convince Wade that he's reliable enough to trust with confidential secrets.  

 

I don't see JJ having any semblance of maturity until at least when he's 18 or 19. I think his little boy, emotionally stunted mindset will be around for at least a couple more years. It takes a long time for that to go away if you have it.

 

I do love the contrast though- that Will is for all intents and purposes a young man, while JJ, who's actually 9 months older, is still very much a little boy and will remain that way for at least a few more years.

Edited February 24, 2013 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

Jeremy you again hit the nail of the head. JJ is stuck as the little boy. He sees Will and many other his classmates grow and mature and he does not. I think that must be hard on him. We as readers know he will grow and mature. Maybe he will turn into this big football player type, who knows. Except for JP all the people here are six feet or more. I am glad I'm not JJ It would be so overwhelming. Hopefully, surrounded by his family, the people that loved him, he will show that strength he showed on the ice.

[PrivateTim]

Jeremy you again hit the nail of the head. JJ is stuck as the little boy. He sees Will and many other his classmates grow and mature and he does not. I think that must be hard on him. We as readers know he will grow and mature. Maybe he will turn into this big football player type, who knows. Except for JP all the people here are six feet or more. I am glad I'm not JJ It would be so overwhelming. Hopefully, surrounded by his family, the people that loved him, he will show that strength he showed on the ice.

 

I am going to disagree a little because we do have Alistair, but also because JJ is on the Harvard Westlake Lower Campus with 7th & 8th graders. There are a lot of even 9th graders in his same physical state of development. There are the bigger guys like Ryan and Will, but I don't know that we've had detailed physical descriptions of most of the friends other than the rather graphic one of Alistair.

[Mari]

 I am hoping the next story narrators are Will and perhaps JP or Brad for equal balance. I enjoy all the high school drama and whatnot.

[rjo]

When I was talking about most of the people being six feet I was talking about the family. Has JJ built that world of childhood around him to protect him from the evils of the outside world? What is so interesting I can not see of Will or Darius being taken advantage of like JJ was. They were out there engaging the world. JJ was hiding from the world. Thank God for Alistair, Alistair is a true blood friend Someone it is really good to have in situations like this. Interesting that Will had what he called shallow friends. However, now he has Noah, and Noah will be one of these true blood friends all of us need.

 

 

As for the next narrator, I think Mari's idea of Will and JP would be interesting. JP has the ablilty to detach himself and give us a overlook of the whole situation, add to that a character like Will who has both passion for life and for others that add to the interest. Brad is like two people in control or out of control. As we appouch 9 11 we may need a serious person like JP to guide us.

Edited February 25, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

When I was talking about most of the people being six feet I was talking about the family. Has JJ built that world of childhood around him to protect him from the evils of the outside world?

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the only male in the Crampton/Schluter family that has been described as short was JP. Otherwise, it seems like everyone else is six feet or more, or almost there like Will.

 

As for the childhood thing, one thing to keep in mind is that figure skaters are expected to repress any outward signs of sexuality, or partaking in activities that aren't considered wholesome. Unless you're safely over in EU competitions where they tend to care less about it, JJ needs to maintain a pristine image at all times. He can't do the kind of things that Will does, like drink or smoke pot or have an open sexuality. (And we're talking even a straight one- good little skaters don't have sex before marriage, or at least don't admit to it.)

[PrivateTim]

What is so interesting I can not see of Will or Darius being taken advantage of like JJ was. They were out there engaging the world. JJ was hiding from the world. Thank God for Alistair, Alistair is a true blood friend Someone it is really good to have in situations like this. Interesting that Will had what he called shallow friends. However, now he has Noah, and Noah will be one of these true blood friends all of us need.

 

I am hoping Will is not done with Ryan or Alistair yet as friends. A lot of the "fire road" friends might have been shallow, but I don't think those two are, even if Ryan is current in "little head" mode.

 

As to could Will or Darius have been "taken advantage" of by someone, I don't think I (we) know Darius well enough to make the call. While JJ has clearly been molested, there is also an element of agreement on his part. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying he "wanted it" or "deserved it", but an abuser seduces a kid the kid goes along at some point, may even enjoy it and get into it and it takes years to see it was wrong, or the kid is getting perks and goes along. If you ever want to read a classic seduction, read the Jordan Chandler Declaration in the Michael Jackson first molestation case (that never came to trial). Jordan clearly knew what was going on was wrong, but at some level was willing to go along with it for whatever reason.

 

Boys who have sex with older men or women do so because they are like JJ, have a need that needs filling (adult attention and approval) or they are a horny as hell teen (Will). Does anyone doubt that Will's surfing coach could have had sex with him when Will was 13? Or maybe even Lark? Just because Will might be more willing than JJ doesn't make it any less of a molestation in the eyes of the law or society. Whether boys at 13 years old ought to have the right to choose their sexual partners might be an interesting philosophical discussion (and I think we've had it here a few times) but it is pretty settled in society that the answer is no.

[centexhairysub]

Hi everyone, hope everyone has been doing okay...  I have just been really busy and while I have been reading everything that Mark has posted; I just haven't had time to get into the forums...

 

Have to say that I really enjoyed the latest chapter of Paternity.  I wonder if we aren't going to have one more reason to celebrate the title of the story; Jeff's parentage...  This is the not the first chapter that there has been mention of how much Jeff smells like Ryan and how similar their various body scents are.  This is something that can run in families.  I have known brothers, fathers and sons, and cousins that share similar body smells.  Have to wonder if Mark hasn't been dropping hints all along that maybe Jeff is Ryan's brother or half-brother.  I could really see Ryan's father getting a girl pregnant before he got married and paying for an abortion but she keeps the money and gives the kid up for adoption.  This might be a way of keeping Ryan and maybe even Alistair in a round about way in the storyline.  Although tying Alistair in with JJ might make more sense...  Anything that keeps Will tied to those guys in Malibu works for me though, I think both are really interesting. 

 

I have been trying to catch up on the post recently, still working through them all; but I have to say the one thing I want to suggest for the next story is another dual narration.  I really think for the 9/11 storyline, you need JP's voice to be one of them that is heard from and if there is only one narrator then he is the only choice for me; but I sort of would like to see him paired with either Will, Matt, or Wade.  I really think having two people from generations that are seperated not only by years but experience would lend a really poignant touch to what will be a very difficult storyline.  What does everyone else think???

Edited March 1, 2013 by centexhairysub

[MJ85]

Have to say that I really enjoyed the latest chapter of Paternity.  I wonder if we aren't going to have one more reason to celebrate the title of the story; Jeff's parentage...  This is the not the first chapter that there has been mention of how much Jeff smells like Ryan and how similar their various body scents are.  This is something that can run in families.  I have known brothers, fathers and sons, and cousins that share similar body smells.  Have to wonder if Mark hasn't been dropping hints all along that maybe Jeff is Ryan's brother or half-brother.  I could really see Ryan's father getting a girl pregnant before he got married and paying for an abortion but she keeps the money and gives the kid up for adoption.  This might be a way of keeping Ryan and maybe even Alistair in a round about way in the storyline.

 

"Have to wonder if Mark hasn't been dropping hints..." Is that what they're calling it these days? This sounds very much like making your case for that to be true.

 

If I sound annoyed right here, it's because it feels like a "spoiling the surprise" moment if you are correct.

[Mark Arbour]

Hi everyone, hope everyone has been doing okay...  I have just been really busy and while I have been reading everything that Mark has posted; I just haven't had time to get into the forums...

 

You're busy?  Cry me a river.  

 

Have to say that I really enjoyed the latest chapter of Paternity.  I wonder if we aren't going to have one more reason to celebrate the title of the story; Jeff's parentage...  This is the not the first chapter that there has been mention of how much Jeff smells like Ryan and how similar their various body scents are.  This is something that can run in families.  I have known brothers, fathers and sons, and cousins that share similar body smells.  Have to wonder if Mark hasn't been dropping hints all along that maybe Jeff is Ryan's brother or half-brother.  I could really see Ryan's father getting a girl pregnant before he got married and paying for an abortion but she keeps the money and gives the kid up for adoption.  This might be a way of keeping Ryan and maybe even Alistair in a round about way in the storyline.  Although tying Alistair in with JJ might make more sense...  Anything that keeps Will tied to those guys in Malibu works for me though, I think both are really interesting. 

 

Is Will seeing Ryan in Jeff because Jeff is like Ryan, or does he just miss Ryan?  You know better than to trust me when the clues seem obvious. 

 

I have been trying to catch up on the post recently, still working through them all; but I have to say the one thing I want to suggest for the next story is another dual narration.  I really think for the 9/11 storyline, you need JP's voice to be one of them that is heard from and if there is only one narrator then he is the only choice for me; but I sort of would like to see him paired with either Will, Matt, or Wade.  I really think having two people from generations that are seperated not only by years but experience would lend a really poignant touch to what will be a very difficult storyline.  What does everyone else think???

 

Interesting thoughts.  

[PrivateTim]

  This might be a way of keeping Ryan and maybe even Alistair in a round about way in the storyline.  Although tying Alistair in with JJ might make more sense...  Anything that keeps Will tied to those guys in Malibu works for me though, I think both are really interesting. 

 

No way man, I still want my scene with Alistair plowing Will for his first time at the "Big A"!

 

Mark has dropped hints that Jeff could be a Hayes, he's dropped hints he could be Ryan's half brother.....  given current events in LA (that were ongoing 12 years ago that could have happened in 1981) I'm gonna guess the father is Cardinal Mahony or Steve Garvey.

 

Edited March 1, 2013 by PrivateTim

[methodwriter85]

    I was about to say that wouldn't work because I thought Jeff was from Oklahoma, but then again, it's entirely possible that Jeff's father is from L.A. while Jeff himself was raised in Oklahoma.

 

     I do like that someone's interested in a college that's not Stanford or Cal. I remember Mark saying once to me that he needed to spread the characters out when it comes to colleges, and we've hit max density with Stanford. USC seems like a pretty fun school, and Jeff would be a senior in college when Zach Hayes is a freshman or sophomore, so there's possibilities there...

 

     From reviews:

 

 

I always thought it was odd that JJ was closer to Jeanine than Will. After all Will was her real son. Maybe Brad's fault but maybe now Will's bond with his mother can be restored

 

I think it makes perfect sense. Think about it. JJ was born a preemie to a crack-addicted mother, and there were concerns that Bitty might have relapsed at some points during that pregnancy with JJ ending up a deformed crack baby. He didn't, but right when he was born, Jeanine knew that JJ's mother couldn't be a mother, and his father thought of him as an unfortunate consequence with his whore that didn't really happen. JJ simply needed Jeanine, probably much more than Will did, because Will had Brad, and there was no way to cut into the bond that existed between Will and Brad. So Jeanine focused on building a bond with JJ, and to a slightly lesser extent Darius, instead.

 

And as Darius explained it, JJ is more into girly stuff than either Will and Darius are, so they had that in common. I'm sure JJ made a fantastic shopping and pedicure companion for Jeanine.

Edited March 1, 2013 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

My first comments disappeared so I will try it again. Jeremy when I said I was surprised Jeanine and Will wern't closer. SinceJeanine is his real mother and JJ is not. However Brad took Will at birth and JJ needed her, so that's what happened.

 

Now for something else, which poped into my mind. I know this will seem twisted but odder things have happened in the CAP world. Today people move around the country more then ever before. Which means even if Jeff grew up in OK he could have been birth someplace else and his birth parents could be from someplace else. Two other clues are out there. Robbie's sister had a baby and Robbie doesn't know what happened to the child. Then Jeff reminds Will of Ryan. I am not sure if that is a red herring or not. So what if sometime in the past Ryan's father  met Robbie's sister and had a child. Maybe Ryan's father knew about the child or maybe not. Robbie's sister is left high and dry, She adopted Jeff out and he ended up in OK with his adopted parents. Later Ryan's father moved to CA and had a second son, Ryan. It's a small world but stranger things have happen. If it is possible, it would be unbelievible funny. A few years ago Robbie was bent out of shape because JP, Stef and Matt had sex. Now the same thing has happened to him.