Clementi trial starts today

[hh5]

Feels like the MJ trial ... the accused doesn't want to be on the witness stand

Its going to feel like third person about getting to know ravi ... what he's really like

lol I hope this trial leans more to like the MJ trial ... he will get sentence for something ...

I would hate to be on the jury to not hear the real side from the guy who did things he's accused of

It would complicate answering the petition questions to charge ravi with something

Making one feel force to vote from the lack of first hand answers ... like Why did ravi do what he did?

Hiding i case the prosecution asks the many "Are you ..." and the many other questions.

It really would feel like a waste of time to be there to render a decision from a gambit of legal plays to hide the truth.

It is very unlikely @rock9449: will ravi take the stand at all during this trial ? @mckoenigs”

[Rilbur]

Its her mistake for letting ravi use her computer for the crime ... if she refused ... then ravi would have to find another way or forget about it. Perhaps Clementi would be alive .

It's incredibly difficult to read through your posts, but right here you show the emotion behind your logic.

 

You're too focused on the outcome -- Clementi's suicide -- rather than the crime, which was mischief that rose to the realm of the criminal, and even then only as a misdemeanor. The outcome of his actions wasn't simply beyond his control, it was outside of his ability to predict. I wouldn't consider 'suicide' to be a reasonably predictable outcome from having a tryst put 'on camera'. Outrage, yes, suicide, no. Frankly, Ravi's case is being blown up over people's outrage that he 'drove' Clementi to suicide. If Clementi hadn't thrown himself off a bridge, this case wouldn't have even hit the papers -- and probably wouldn't be pushed so hard by the police.

 

So far, all the evidence I've seen is that Ravi decided to 'snoop' on his roommate having sex, and then decided to make that snooping public. To me, that might, maybe, justify a small modicum of jail time, but I'd be much more inclined to view it as something that justified a few hundred hours of community service.

 

As for Molly, 300 hours seems a bit heavy to me. She was, at worst, an enabler. 300 hours community service is, by way of comparison, about two months worth of full-time employment. She's already got a 'full time' job in being a student, so lets cut that back to one day's work (eight hours) a week on the weekends. That's about nine months of her life that she's going to be paying for her 'crime', four and a half if you remove all her days off.

[Benji]

It's incredibly difficult to read through your posts, but right here you show the emotion behind your logic.

 

You're too focused on the outcome -- Clementi's suicide -- rather than the crime, which was mischief that rose to the realm of the criminal, and even then only as a misdemeanor. The outcome of his actions wasn't simply beyond his control, it was outside of his ability to predict. I wouldn't consider 'suicide' to be a reasonably predictable outcome from having a tryst put 'on camera'. Outrage, yes, suicide, no. Frankly, Ravi's case is being blown up over people's outrage that he 'drove' Clementi to suicide. If Clementi hadn't thrown himself off a bridge, this case wouldn't have even hit the papers -- and probably wouldn't be pushed so hard by the police.

 

So far, all the evidence I've seen is that Ravi decided to 'snoop' on his roommate having sex, and then decided to make that snooping public. To me, that might, maybe, justify a small modicum of jail time, but I'd be much more inclined to view it as something that justified a few hundred hours of community service.

 

As for Molly, 300 hours seems a bit heavy to me. She was, at worst, an enabler. 300 hours community service is, by way of comparison, about two months worth of full-time employment. She's already got a 'full time' job in being a student, so lets cut that back to one day's work (eight hours) a week on the weekends. That's about nine months of her life that she's going to be paying for her 'crime', four and a half if you remove all her days off.

 

It's incredibly difficult to read through your posts, but right here you show the emotion behind your logic.

 

You're too focused on the outcome -- Clementi's suicide -- rather than the crime, which was mischief that rose to the realm of the criminal, and even then only as a misdemeanor. The outcome of his actions wasn't simply beyond his control, it was outside of his ability to predict. I wouldn't consider 'suicide' to be a reasonably predictable outcome from having a tryst put 'on camera'. Outrage, yes, suicide, no. Frankly, Ravi's case is being blown up over people's outrage that he 'drove' Clementi to suicide. If Clementi hadn't thrown himself off a bridge, this case wouldn't have even hit the papers -- and probably wouldn't be pushed so hard by the police.

 

So far, all the evidence I've seen is that Ravi decided to 'snoop' on his roommate having sex, and then decided to make that snooping public. To me, that might, maybe, justify a small modicum of jail time, but I'd be much more inclined to view it as something that justified a few hundred hours of community service.

 

As for Molly, 300 hours seems a bit heavy to me. She was, at worst, an enabler. 300 hours community service is, by way of comparison, about two months worth of full-time employment. She's already got a 'full time' job in being a student, so lets cut that back to one day's work (eight hours) a week on the weekends. That's about nine months of her life that she's going to be paying for her 'crime', four and a half if you remove all her days off.

 

It's incredibly difficult to read through your posts, but right here you show the emotion behind your logic.

 

You're too focused on the outcome -- Clementi's suicide -- rather than the crime, which was mischief that rose to the realm of the criminal, and even then only as a misdemeanor. The outcome of his actions wasn't simply beyond his control, it was outside of his ability to predict. I wouldn't consider 'suicide' to be a reasonably predictable outcome from having a tryst put 'on camera'. Outrage, yes, suicide, no. Frankly, Ravi's case is being blown up over people's outrage that he 'drove' Clementi to suicide. If Clementi hadn't thrown himself off a bridge, this case wouldn't have even hit the papers -- and probably wouldn't be pushed so hard by the police.

 

So far, all the evidence I've seen is that Ravi decided to 'snoop' on his roommate having sex, and then decided to make that snooping public. To me, that might, maybe, justify a small modicum of jail time, but I'd be much more inclined to view it as something that justified a few hundred hours of community service.

 

As for Molly, 300 hours seems a bit heavy to me. She was, at worst, an enabler. 300 hours community service is, by way of comparison, about two months worth of full-time employment. She's already got a 'full time' job in being a student, so lets cut that back to one day's work (eight hours) a week on the weekends. That's about nine months of her life that she's going to be paying for her 'crime', four and a half if you remove all her days off.

 

 

I disagree, Ravi violated the personal space of Clementi by broadcasting it, from which he planned and timed the episodes, that is clearly intent of invasion of privacy of an individual. He needs more then a spanking of so called community service, he needs some time spent behind bars fo his actions.

[hh5]

What the man is dead? If he were to walk into the court room, then Ravi would be had by the prank of all time.

What holds back the entire trial is Ravi not explaining his actions and his defense team won't let him take the stand (per reporter opinion) If I were to be on the jury, I could not accept people sharing something that only ravi can tell us on the witness stand. The witness's illustration will not truly depict ravi at all. No one knows him well enough to share what he is like that would convince he was just being naughty.

 

Even if Tyler were alive, the two will be at each other throats until Admin can find them new accommodations and keep them from killing or destroying the place. Perhaps the RA may have to keep the two from physically fighting each other.

 

It's more than the video camming in terms of the invasion of privacy. It's how he found out Tyler is gay. How much he tracked down or taps into Tyler social media habits. Ravi, who learned so much from his father about computers, can easily hide the evidence of his mischief. We can only hope the prosecution can track down any evidence of ravi trying to spy on Tyler's personal background from his computer. Discover where if any, he hid any evidence of his discoveries. Even to check Tyler's laptop to see if ravi ever broke into it or planted spy ware.

 

Look in the four years at college, I never dug through my roommate's belongings to find out his sexuality or what he does with his life. There are better ways of finding out. The whole purpose of the college exposure is to become friends, learn diversity, and respect each other space.

 

We don't know how far ravi investigated Tyler. If it's just more discovering sexual orientation, it could it stalking. Perhaps ravi was too inquisitive and Tyler is too private. The oil and vinegar. I hope someone would have to give testimony during orientation time. But perhaps this mutual dislike is a private matter between them that no one knows.

 

Ravi could have satisfied his curiosity at a porn site. Visit the LGBT and sit in on some meetings to learn what this gay sexuality is. Buy his own toys. It's the question of why he had this fascination with Tyler. We won't get his testimony because ravi is afraid to be forth coming to the world. It would be interesting to find out he's BI. Certainly, that would change the trial a bit. lol it be funny if he told his lawyer.

 

The bottom line, making himself available for prosecution to cross examine would at least let us see to make it clear he has nothing to hide in a fair trial. But there may be fear that prosecution may question his sexuality and other unknown reason why he abstains.

Its may also be a matter of his using advance knowledge of computers perhaps that's what's being hidden from the trial. If he is not put on the witness stand, then perhaps his father would be or anyone who contributed to ravi advance knowledge. They would be asked to give a picture of ravi computer ability and what kinds of projects and things he did with his ability.

 

I don't think it just going to be a slap on the wrist with a few hundred hours of community service. That's the goal of his defense. If prosecution can cast the doubt to ravi innocence in the whole matter, then it's going to be interesting through the 6 to 8 weeks. There's more to the trial than just privacy the news said other crimes ... we don't know the entire agenda of the trial.

 

For Molly, it only means she loses one of her summer vacations. That nearly two months full time. That's rather light sentence. Make it the whole summer, three months. This would mean she has to give up her summer job. Still, the question is what kind of community service.

 

I forget what would make a teen work an entire summer when a parent is angry. But I bet if the teen caused this kind of trouble, it probably be more than one summer, especially since this is an Asian family. We tend to punish much more severely than whites.

 

It"s incredibly difficult to read through your posts, but right here you show the emotion behind your logic.

 

You"re too focused on the outcome -- Clementi"s suicide -- rather than the crime, which was mischief that rose to the realm of the criminal, and even then only as a misdemeanor. The outcome of his actions wasn"t simply beyond his control, it was outside of his ability to predict. I wouldn"t consider "suicide" to be a reasonably predictable outcome from having a tryst put "on camera". Outrage, yes, suicide, no. Frankly, Ravi"s case is being blown up over people"s outrage that he "drove" Clementi to suicide. If Clementi hadn"t thrown himself off a bridge, this case wouldn"t have even hit the papers -- and probably wouldn"t be pushed so hard by the police.

 

So far, all the evidence I"ve seen is that Ravi decided to "snoop" on his roommate having sex, and then decided to make that snooping public. To me, that might, maybe, justify a small modicum of jail time, but I"d be much more inclined to view it as something that justified a few hundred hours of community service.

 

As for Molly, 300 hours seems a bit heavy to me. She was, at worst, an enabler. 300 hours community service is, by way of comparison, about two months worth of full-time employment. She"s already got a "full time" job in being a student, so lets cut that back to one day"s work (eight hours) a week on the weekends. That"s about nine months of her life that she"s going to be paying for her "crime", four and a half if you remove all her days off.

 

[hh5]

In jail, perhaps all of ravi fetish fantasies will come true!!

But he's scared to exercise that need ... his parents and family all believe he's straight!!!

ready for arrange marriage

lol

 

I disagree, Ravi violated the personal space of Clementi by broadcasting it, from which he planned and timed the episodes, that is clearly intent of invasion of privacy of an individual. He needs more then a spanking of so called community service, he needs some time spent behind bars fo his actions.

 

[Rilbur]

I disagree, Ravi violated the personal space of Clementi by broadcasting it, from which he planned and timed the episodes, that is clearly intent of invasion of privacy of an individual. He needs more then a spanking of so called community service, he needs some time spent behind bars fo his actions.

In that case, we've come to an impasse and can never agree.

 

As for the rest of your post... you're right, we don't know. Therefore, we can't judge from it. Innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, you're throwing wild speculation about what may or may not have occurred out as reasons to punish Ravi, which is absurd. We have to fit the punishment to the facts, not the facts to the punishment. Wild speculation about what may or may not have happened is pointless.

[Benji]

In that case, we've come to an impasse and can never agree.

 

As for the rest of your post... you're right, we don't know. Therefore, we can't judge from it. Innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, you're throwing wild speculation about what may or may not have occurred out as reasons to punish Ravi, which is absurd. We have to fit the punishment to the facts, not the facts to the punishment. Wild speculation about what may or may not have happened is pointless.

 

In that case, we've come to an impasse and can never agree.

 

As for the rest of your post... you're right, we don't know. Therefore, we can't judge from it. Innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, you're throwing wild speculation about what may or may not have occurred out as reasons to punish Ravi, which is absurd. We have to fit the punishment to the facts, not the facts to the punishment. Wild speculation about what may or may not have happened is pointless.

 

In that case, we've come to an impasse and can never agree.

 

As for the rest of your post... you're right, we don't know. Therefore, we can't judge from it. Innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, you're throwing wild speculation about what may or may not have occurred out as reasons to punish Ravi, which is absurd. We have to fit the punishment to the facts, not the facts to the punishment. Wild speculation about what may or may not have happened is pointless.

 

In that case, we've come to an impasse and can never agree.

 

As for the rest of your post... you're right, we don't know. Therefore, we can't judge from it. Innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, you're throwing wild speculation about what may or may not have occurred out as reasons to punish Ravi, which is absurd. We have to fit the punishment to the facts, not the facts to the punishment. Wild speculation about what may or may not have happened is pointless.

 

'Wild speculations' ......... What part of the testimony did you miss? Did not Revi organize his web cam towards Clementi's bed area? Did he not go to another room of a classmate and monitor it and invite people to see it, not once but twice? As I listen to the testimony I can conclude on my own that Ravi was a guilty prankster, but crossed the line in sending out the feed for others to see. INVASION OF PRIVACY, and he is clearly guilty of it, and he should pay for that CRIME.

[hh5]

there is another issue ... if that one and only transmission was porn ... and went over to another state ... it would be consider highly illegal distribution

but since they were half naked ... I am not sure if this is an illegal transmission or should it be subject to any laws or not ... besides IOP

 

'Wild speculations' ......... What part of the testimony did you miss? Did not Revi organize his web cam towards Clementi's bed area? Did he not go to another room of a classmate and monitor it and invite people to see it, not once but twice? As I listen to the testimony I can conclude on my own that Ravi was a guilty prankster, but crossed the line in sending out the feed for others to see. INVASION OF PRIVACY, and he is clearly guilty of it, and he should pay for that CRIME.

 

[Rilbur]

'Wild speculations' ......... What part of the testimony did you miss? Did not Revi organize his web cam towards Clementi's bed area? Did he not go to another room of a classmate and monitor it and invite people to see it, not once but twice? As I listen to the testimony I can conclude on my own that Ravi was a guilty prankster, but crossed the line in sending out the feed for others to see. INVASION OF PRIVACY, and he is clearly guilty of it, and he should pay for that CRIME.

 

 

 

​Go re-read HH5's posts; he's been talking about future events that may have occurred. That's the 'wild speculation' that I'm decrying.

 

Let me be clear on my position: What Ravi did was wrong, was illegal, and he should be punished. Where I disagree is with the witch-trial mentality people are developing over it, trying to turn it into murder charges and arguing for punishments more suitable to a severe crime. Ravi's actions were those of a prank that got out of hand -- extremely so, yes, but a prank. As such, while he does deserve punishment -- innocent intents do not excuse the criminal act, they merely mitigate it -- I don't view him as a severe criminal deserving of 'hard time'. Six months, max. (For reference, a quick bit of research shows that invasion of privacy is a class A misdemeanor, which in some jurisdictions is punishable by 10,000$ fine, up to nine months jail time, or both) And please note that even this 'mild' sentence is still a life-long penalty; he'll be branded a criminal for the rest of his life and as such will not be eligible for bonding in most professions. While most work places focus on felonies, even a misdemeanor can disqualify you for any number of 'good' jobs.

 

As for distribution, I went and dug into the matter a bit more; you are correct that he didn't invite friends to watch on a single machine, but rather used twitter to make the 'livecast' available. Since the prosecution hasn't brought any such charges against him, I'm going to assume those charges are not viable for some reason beyond the scope of my limited legal 'expertise'. He's certainly brought the less-justified bias charges, at any rate! (Less justified as in nothing I've seen supports that these acts were a bias crime)

[hh5]

the infamous rilbur research ... please list all the charges ... leader of the ravi fan club

 

see! there is some evidence of covering up!! not enough digging by prosecution!!

 

Legal Issues

In April 2011, Mr. Ravi was indicted, by a New Jersey grand jury, on 15 counts, including tampering with evidence, witness tampering and bias crimes.

Mr. Ravi has not been charged with playing a direct role in the suicide of Mr. Clementi, a shy aspiring violinist from Ridgewood, N.J., and the authorities have not said why Mr. Clementi killed himself.

By itself, what prosecutors call an invasion of his roommate’s privacy, motivated by antigay bias, would have drawn no attention beyond the college campus. But according to the Middlesex County prosecutor’s office, Mr. Ravi raised the stakes in the case by trying to persuade a witness not to cooperate with investigators, erasing text messages and changing a Twitter post related to his webcast of Mr. Clementi.

Eight months after he was accused of spying on his roommate, Mr. Ravi stood in court for the first time to answer criminal charges. Through his lawyer, Steven D. Altman, Mr. Ravi pleaded not guilty to the 15 counts and remains free on a $25,000 bond.

Mr. Ravi, who was born in India and grew up in Plainsboro, N.J., could face deportation if he is convicted.

http://www.nj.com/ne...g_trial_fr.html

 

On Sept. 21, Ravi, a computer whiz, told Huang in a text message that his computer could alert him when someone else was in his room.

"I got so creeped out after Sunday," Ravi texted. "Yeah keep the gays away."

A few hours later, they texted again, with Ravi telling her to video chat him. Ravi set up a feature on his webcam that would allow an incoming call to be automatically accepted.

Ravi's roommate, Tyler Clementi, found out about the planned webcam viewing and disconnected Ravi's computer.

"I just tested it and it works lol," Ravi wrote to Huang.

"Do it for real I have it pointed at his bed. And the monitor is off so he can't see you."

But he added, "Be careful it could get nasty."

Huang said she did not try and click onto the webcam.

Other texts from Ravi read, "Mad people are going to do it," and "People are having a viewing party."

Prosecutors are trying to prove that Ravi purposely targeted his roommate to humiliate him because he was gay.

On cross-examination, Huang read more text messages that showed the conversation as more of a back-and-forth.

Huang called what Ravi had seen on his webcam "so nasty."

"Watch out, he might come for you when you're sleeping," she wrote.

Ravi replied that "everyone keeps telling me that."

Ravi's lawyer, Steve Altman, also brought out text messages from a few days later, when Ravi told Huang that his roommate had committed suicide.

"I guess he was quiet because he was depressed," Ravi wrote.

ok councelling will take up some time ... how many hours will she get?

 

In May, Molly Wei – the other defendant in the case – was accepted into a program for first-time offenders in exchange for agreeing to testify against Ravi. Wei, 19, also has to perform 300 hours of community service, undergo counseling and work full time (or part time if she is in school).

If she successfully meets those conditions, the two invasion of privacy charges against her will be dismissed after three years.

Short Trial??? oh almost two weeks prosecution + one week for defense?

 

Prosecution expected to rest its case on Thurs or Friday of this week in #Dharun Ravi trial

http://www.nj.com/ne...n_ravi_cas.html

 

A charge of hindering an investigation filed against Dharun Ravi, 19, is actually a second-degree crime, not third-degree as stated in the indictment, Middlesex County First Assistant Prosecutor Julia McClure said today in a hearing less than two weeks before the start of jury selection,

This is significant, said Superior Court Judge Glenn Berman, because a third-degree crime carries of presumptive sentence with no incarceration, but a second-degree offense "is a presumption toward imprisonment."

rilbur you should have told ravi to take the plea ... then would be assured to get your case here ...

 

too late ... he wants to gamble for innocence and walk out a free man ...

 

if he accepted the plea ... what would be on his record?

 

http://www.nj.com/ne...harun_ravi.html

 

The 19-year-old former Rutgers University student refused today to plead guilty to any of 15 charges accusing him ...

 

By opting for a trial, Ravi risks prison time and deportation if he’s convicted. The plea deal had called for probation and included the Middlesex County Prosecutor’s Office’s offer to help Ravi if immigration authorities moved to deport him.

 

"Why did he reject the plea?" Ravi’s attorney, Steven Altman, was asked after the hearing. "He’s innocent. He’s not guilty. That’s why he rejected the plea."

 

 

The plea offer from the prosecutor’s office would have resulted in a probationary sentence for Ravi if the judge went along with the state’s recommendation to waive the prison sentence bias-intimidation convictions normally carry.

 

The state also wanted Ravi to perform 600 hours of community service and receive counseling associated with cyberbullying and alternative lifestyles.

 

The trial is set to begin Feb. 21, 2012, and last more than three weeks, according to the judge.

[hh5]

The trial has pickup with computer experts that verified the webcaming

and the changing of twitter messsages and other things ravi was hidding

 

its sort of a review of the article in another thread left by option

 

Well I read the article last night and the twitter msg left by the reporter of the trial

 

It seems ravi been really digging into who his roommate is before they met ... in august

ravi was hoping to get Tyler Picone ... there is feeling they would have gotten along better

then he found out it was clementi ... so he continue digging there and found out

everything gay about Tyler activities ..

 

somehow ... there is mention ravi be a "bro"

One would mean endearing and the other would be like "Big Brother 1984" ...

no evidence to show ravi was endearing but rather the latter

 

The article show that ravi preferred gay Tyler Picone because he's rich not a poor guy

It showed clementi to be frail in character ... very quiet\shy and fragile to the world ..

ravi overly the opposite ...

ravi and clementi would be oil n vinegar.

If ravi could have been that kind of big brother ... things could have gone well .. but little things piss off clementi

like finding out his roommate found out the website he regular visits ... ravi quite a detective

but that's what spoils the relationship ... on ravi part ... the gay part and the rich boy part

 

How could the college put two people like this together ... I thought college got better at roommate placement??

I thought with questionnaires answered placement would be very efficient .. perhaps they didn't ask ... "prefer rich kids"

quiet boy ... party boy ....

they didn't learn to live together ... clementi already saw things he didn't trust about ravi

Any liability by the college for a placement error? Sounds like the perfect storm ...

Gosh read the FormSpring paragraph ... another side of ravi

Well ravi is a ladies man ... so he treats girls better than guys ... so trial needs more guys to testify ravi character to balance out who he truly is

Nice stuff to find out ravi think of molly as an item ... but she not feels that way ...

 

Yeah as expected with ravi character ... there is cover up ... n molly being truthful to the police

 

I don't see anything ... innocent about ravi ...

you can see the diff between ravi smoothing things vs what he done and said ... evidence is there

like mentioning to someone about setting up webcamming broadcasting ...

 

evidence of ravi constant experimenting with webcams ... the love of webcam pranking???

well another part of the perfect storm

 

ravi seeing that he's taken things too far wrote a rsp to tyler fb entry

... but by that time Tyler jumped and Tyler not read ravi message

its unclear if ravi wrote the message around the time tyler jump or just wrote it the next day

 

ravi should have taken that plea deal

 

the first line quote below surely explains what will come to his life ...

 

Ravi wrote to Tam: “FUCK MY LIFE / He’s gay.”

 

http://www.newyorker...#38;currentPage=all

His Twitter account—@Dharun—was public and easy to find. Tyler Clementi read that first tweet about himself before he started at Rutgers.

 

Once Ravi understood that he would be living with Clementi, not Picone, he felt that he knew these essential facts: his roommate was gay, profoundly uncool, and not well off. If the first attribute presented both a complication and a happy chance to gossip, the second and third were perceived as failings.

Ravi wrote, “Dude I hate poor people.”

“I was fucking hoping for someone with a gmail but no,” Ravi wrote to Tam.

Ravi drove a BMW in high school

As Tam put it, “He’s so much of a jerk that it may seem like he’s a homophobe but he’s not.”

 

According to Tam, Ravi had already explored unorthodox uses of webcams.

 

 

I find all this info not much different than when this story unfolded in 2010.

Just knowing the hints of Tyler, Ravi, molly characters and what happen at the time

its enough to know something centered around them that wasn't good

all sourced from ravi

 

gosh one day we will see this in the TV movie of the week

 

Ravi police interview

http://videos.nj.com...olice_inte.html

http://www.nj.com/ne...m_spy_tria.html

 

http://www.nj.com/ne..._interroga.html

 

hmm ravi trying to make amends is four minutes late after Tyler jumped

http://www.nj.com/ne...suicide_ra.html

 

defense is arguing about the computers are not admissible in the trial

like what??

[hh5]

The prosecution rest its case

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-trial-prosecution-make-case-dharun-ravi/story?id=15877699#.T1kvxfEgenZ

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-students-apology-suicide-written-minutes/story?id=15871532#.T1kxMPEgenY

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/burden-proof-case-prosecutorial-discretion/story?id=15864150#.T1kxM_EgenY

That Ojha guy got charged for hindering an investigation

 

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/clementi-trial-daily-analysis-judge-testimony-tyler-clementi/story?id=15854510#.T1lItPEgenY

 

 

Now what can we expect from defense?

[Daddydavek]

The analyses I've read indicate the prosecution's case was better than expected and that the defense has a big job. The charges are tricky however, and juries are usually a wild card. The interesting question is whether the accused takes the stand.

 

The bottom line is that no verdict can bring back the victim. However, the fact of the trial already is bringing awareness and some accountability to the issue which may spare some future victim of being so horribly "pranked" over their sexuality by an invasion of privacy.

[Benji]

The analyses I've read indicate the prosecution's case was better than expected and that the defense has a big job. The charges are tricky however, and juries are usually a wild card. The interesting question is whether the accused takes the stand.

 

The bottom line is that no verdict can bring back the victim. However, the fact of the trial already is bringing awareness and some accountability to the issue which may spare some future victim of being so horribly "pranked" over their sexuality by an invasion of privacy.

 

The analyses I've read indicate the prosecution's case was better than expected and that the defense has a big job. The charges are tricky however, and juries are usually a wild card. The interesting question is whether the accused takes the stand.

 

The bottom line is that no verdict can bring back the victim. However, the fact of the trial already is bringing awareness and some accountability to the issue which may spare some future victim of being so horribly "pranked" over their sexuality by an invasion of privacy.

 

..........Agreed, however Ravi clearly broke privacy laws, and that is all he should be found guilty of. Hate crime? I don't think so.

[LJH]

So why did the guy commit suicide?

[Daddydavek]

He was outed by his college roomate who spied on him using a webcam aimed at his bed by the roomate(the defendent) charged with invasion of privacy and a hate crime by then showing the movie the defendent took on his computer to others in the dorm.

[hh5]

Ok today's was a bunch of character witness ...

 

The interesting question ...

 

On cross-examination, one of the questions asked of each witness by McClure was: “How often did you discuss homosexuality with Dharun Ravi?

They each said they did not discuss that topic with Ravi.

I hope they all thought about that question ... rather than be defensive about being asked the question.

Hopefully as a lesson ... maybe some day one parent will talk about it with their kids ... before they go to college

 

The funny thing about this hunting of hateful things ... hate need not be verbal ... it can be expressed in other means ... and may not be covered by hate crimes ... perhaps u have to look into ravi style of jokes ... perhaps to him gay is funny ... the funny that comes out in actions of outing (verbal, cam, chat), humiliation, hiding evidence, planning, ... yeah the low version of hate ... how many got ravi humor? ... something about "gay" is a big deal in ravi interest

 

Interesting I hear no rsp about all of ravi digging up clementi background ... week before ... three weeks after ... what describes Ravi in 30 days ... yeah time to make up some TV Movie titles ... pretty sure someone wants to make this into a movie ...

 

mmm I wonder about his dad bringing in co-workers, bosses, etc to testify ... I wonder would they hire ravi for a job?

 

any chances ravi will be barred from operating a computer??

[Rilbur]

any chances ravi will be barred from operating a computer??

Not a chance in hell. There is simply no way to avoid needing a computer in today's world. Even if you restrict it to 'personal computers' such as desktops and laptops, they're still too important to day-to-day life for most individuals. And since Ravi is still a college student, he is -- if his college is anything like mine -- required to have a computer for classwork.

 

It's almost imposible to keep the driver's liscence of a drunk driver revoked, so why the hell would they waste time even trying something that is less enforceable, and far more crippling?

[hh5]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/rutgers_webcam_trial_family_fr.html

Ojha lied under oath ... nice ... next to ravi - falsifying evidence

 

Ravi felt uncomfortable with a gay student then he and him should request room changes and be in best manners until the switch can be done. If that were done someone would be alive.

 

The business character witness yielded nothing of value in homo knowledge but proved invaluable about how they didn't take a personal interest in ravi. Really its only about looking good to testify ... you know the father is the principle investor in R-Squared ... pretty much the owners son.

 

I wonder how the father n mother n sibling will do on the stand?

Especially when they will be asked the same question as with the others

with the added challenge of "why not?"

 

That will cast the light how much they don't know their own son.

Perhaps that is the case of being rich or poor ... its the case of good parenting ...

Arguments of we bough food, clothes, etc ... but something is missing ...

 

It be interesting to find out who's job it is to teach their son tolerance, respect, n privacy?

 

Is "uncomfortable" enough of a motive?

I say look at history of that word when met up with roommates ...

It varies to those that did nothing bad to those that did something very bad ...

Now we get to see one that has to deal with the consequences ...

real ones ... not karma ...

 

Sure when in my college we were tripled ... I was uncomfortable ... with both of my roommates because we all don't know each other. Eventually we would be facing who will be left to find his own roommate. But none of us did any thing like ravi. The blessing is that the choice was made and everyone move on. Shouldn't that be with every student?

[hh5]

short trial ... cross exam investigators ... defense rest ... no big deal ... closing stmt tomorrow ... trial ends this week

ravi did not take the stand

 

http://www.app.com/a...l-motion-denied

 

well if ravi doesn't like the verdict ... he can appeal ...

 

defense is desperate ... two motions for mistrial denied

talk about reaching thin air

 

Berman denied the motion on grounds that the names of those persons interviewed who were not provided to Altman were those persons who had “nothing to offer” on the case

[W_L]

I will refrain from arguing, as I know I'd probably get stuck in another one of those endless matches, too.

 

Ravi committed a crime, it's true. Privacy was violated and personal degradation occurred. What he did went beyond libel by disbursing the information to others that indirectly led to some one's death.

 

Is it a hate crime? That's hard to say, Ravi did not commit the action of murder directly, but metaphorically pulled the trigger with a touch of the keyboard. There's still enough reasonable doubt to give him wiggle room out of hate crime prosecution. Do I think he is guilty of a hate crime? Based on his issues with his roommates sexuality and the malice he showed with his actions, I do, but if I were a heterosexual man or woman on the jury without my personal views and dealings, I probably would still harbor certain doubts.

 

Ravi will be found guilty of certain crimes, he is unlikely to escape jail time for criminal actions with a certain intent. (Pranks have to be thought out and clearly orchestrated, or else you won't be able to do it. He might not have wanted to kill his roommate with the action, but he did know it was wrong and malicious.)

 

That's my two cents

[Benji]

I will refrain from arguing, as I know I'd probably get stuck in another one of those endless matches, too.

 

Ravi committed a crime, it's true. Privacy was violated and personal degradation occurred. What he did went beyond libel by disbursing the information to others that indirectly led to some one's death.

 

Is it a hate crime? That's hard to say, Ravi did not commit the action of murder directly, but metaphorically pulled the trigger with a touch of the keyboard. There's still enough reasonable doubt to give him wiggle room out of hate crime prosecution. Do I think he is guilty of a hate crime? Based on his issues with his roommates sexuality and the malice he showed with his actions, I do, but if I were a heterosexual man or woman on the jury without my personal views and dealings, I probably would still harbor certain doubts.

 

Ravi will be found guilty of certain crimes, he is unlikely to escape jail time for criminal actions with a certain intent. (Pranks have to be thought out and clearly orchestrated, or else you won't be able to do it. He might not have wanted to kill his roommate with the action, but he did know it was wrong and malicious.)

 

That's my two cents

 

....................And very good one too, I agree that this was not a hate crime, but a stupid prank that violated privacy laws, it was malicious and premeditated therefore deserving on some type of punishment, how much, I don't know. I think he will get 300+ in community service plus probation. Why Imprison him?

 

[MJ85]

 

I think you and I are interpreting what he said differently, Benji - I thought he said that he thought Ravi was guilty of a hate crime, but just wasn't sure that the jury would see it that way.

[hh5]

Legal consultant gives his toughts

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-jury-chosen/story?id=15909111#.T2KfzBEgenZ

 

 

The defense team also sought jurors who would not be afraid of public backlash if they came to a "not guilty" verdict in a case that has captured the nation's attention. Dubin cited the controversial 2011 Casey Anthony acquittal as a recent example of the pressures a juror might face.

 

With experience in dozens of high profile cases including the recent acquittal of the "Gotti" Lorenzo brothers, Dubin believes that jurors will eventually ask themselves the question: "It might have been really immature, but should this kid go to jail?"

 

 

 

"It takes a lot of courage, after an assumption of guilt in the media, to assume innocence as a juror," said Dubin, "But there is no bias in this case and he didn't mean to intimidate anyone."

 

Dubin predicts a verdict from the jury by Friday.

 

 

As jury deliberations in the #Clementi case enter Day 2, the local theater company is playing "12 Angry Men" http://pic.twitter.com/fkua8mBR

 

Let him have six months to a year in regular jail population ... in lieu of 300hrs that he threw away that deal ... more than five months ago

He'll get some meaning about real life ... learning the difference between being normal and a criminal act ...

 

Yeah ... the sample verdict sheet ... https://twitter.com/#!/mckoenigs/status/179966573086388224/photo/1

 

Vote!!!

[hh5]

http://www.app.com/article/20120314/NJNEWS/303140045/Jury-deliberation-begins-Ravi-trial

 

 

Berman in an attempt to simplify the verdict sheet that asks the jurors to check off a total of 35 responses as either guilty or not guilty, walked the jurors through how some of the charges depended upon each other.

 

For example, in order to find any guilt of bias, the jurors would first have to unanimously agree that Ravi invaded or attempt to invade the privacy of either Clementi or M.B.

 

The hindering and tampering charges are independent of the invasion of privacy and bias charges, meaning that Ravi still can be found guilty of those charges even if invasion and bias are not proved.

 

 

Most worrisome for Ravi are two bias-intimidation charges, which carry a presumption of jail time as does one of the hindering charges.

The bias-intimidation charges, carrying potential jail time of up to 10 years, are particularly nuanced and Ravi can be found guilty of them in three different ways. The first two ways would be if the jurors agree that Ravi invaded either Clementi’s or M.B.s privacy with the purpose of intimidating either one or both of them, or knowing that his conduct would intimidate either one or both of them because they are gay.

The third way Ravi could be convicted of bias is if the jurors agree that Ravi invaded Clementi’s privacy and that Clementi reasonably believed the crime was committed with purpose to intimidate him because he is gay.

One hindering charge also may carry a presumption of jail time, accuses Ravi of sending text messages to Wei when she was being questioned at a police station with the purpose of getting her to provide information to the police to hinder Ravi’s prosecution. When Ravi originally was indicted, the charge was listed as a 3rd degree offense, but the mistake was corrected before the trial began by Berman who noted it was a second-degree offense.

Berman let the prosecution know before the trial began that since he caught the mistake, it would not be fair to give any jail time to Ravi if he is convicted under the charge unless the prosecution can make a “compelling” case for him to do so.

 

Well if any similarity to casey case ... ravi didn't serve any jail time nor community service ... he waved his bargaining ... he's challenging court he is completely innocent ...

 

I wonder why outing wasn't addressed ... ravi isn't a great roommate that respects privacy when he outs his roommate to many people ... do the juriors know how serious being outted means to a very nervous gay man?

 

Is there a gay man on the jury to give honest representation of the public because picking just parents of 20yo would not be a fair trial ... isn't the jury suppose to be a representation of the public?

 

Defense attorney Steven Altman said in closing arguments Tuesday that Ravi had no "hatred in his heart" for his roommate or homosexuals, and was instead using the webcam to watch over his possessions after learning Clementi had invited an older man into their shared room.

But prosecutor Julia McClure said that Ravi's spying was motivated by his dislike for homosexuals.

"It wasn't what he wanted his college experience to be," McClure said of Ravi. "He didn't want to have a gay roommate. He did not like that he had a gay roommate."

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/15/no-verdict-reached-in-rutgers-webcam-spying-case-after-day-two-deliberations/#ixzz1pFEJ8k3L