Mark Arbour Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 The adventures of George Granger continue! I'll try to post updates weekly, but no promises! 4
Westie Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 And what a great, awesome, spectacular first chapter. I'm a little disappointed that you didn't go the whole way with the mutiny thing, but that just me being a geek - I suspect that there wasn't much story mileage in it. Though hopefully we will see a bit of the action anyway Really well done 1
centexhairysub Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Odyssey has started and what a great start. I loved everything about this first chapter. I liked the interplay between Granger and Silly Billy, then the Royal Duke, then his reunion with Cavendish. I hate that something might happen to Arthur, he has been one of my favorite supporting players for a while. Maybe being on a ship with Granger could bring him out of his madness? Another thought, what if Granger took Arthur to the Far East and they happened to run into Major Jardines. I don't think Granger would kill him, although he would certainly be within his rights; but perhaps Arthur being back with the Major might fix several problems. I do hope that we get a chapter a week, but Mark, you need to make sure that you take care of yourself and don't work yourself into a tizzy. Great start to what I believe will be another great story... 1
Matthew k Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 Oh stop. No one cares about smelly sailors who died 200 years ago. CAP CAP CAP 1
Mark Arbour Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 And what a great, awesome, spectacular first chapter. I'm a little disappointed that you didn't go the whole way with the mutiny thing, but that just me being a geek - I suspect that there wasn't much story mileage in it. Though hopefully we will see a bit of the action anyway Really well done You act like the story is done, and that the opportunity has passed. I'm surprised at you. Odyssey has started and what a great start. I loved everything about this first chapter. I liked the interplay between Granger and Silly Billy, then the Royal Duke, then his reunion with Cavendish. I hate that something might happen to Arthur, he has been one of my favorite supporting players for a while. Maybe being on a ship with Granger could bring him out of his madness? Another thought, what if Granger took Arthur to the Far East and they happened to run into Major Jardines. I don't think Granger would kill him, although he would certainly be within his rights; but perhaps Arthur being back with the Major might fix several problems. I do hope that we get a chapter a week, but Mark, you need to make sure that you take care of yourself and don't work yourself into a tizzy. Great start to what I believe will be another great story... You raise many interesting ideas. We'll see how well I keep up with the posting. I will do my best, but things will get really busy over the next month. Oh stop. No one cares about smelly sailors who died 200 years ago. CAP CAP CAP LIke you don't enjoy hot men, covered in sweat and saltwater.
Daddydavek Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Odyssey: A long series of wanderings or adventures, especially when filled with notable experiences, hardships, etc Somehow, I think this book in the Bridgemont series will more than fulfill the meaning of its title. Sir George's character and very mettle seems likely to be sorely tested.
centexhairysub Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 Well, with a title like Odyssey, you know there is going to be some trials and tribulations... I bet that the same sirens that tempted Odysseus in the original Odyssey won't be the same ones that tempt our intrepid Granger...
Clydee Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 I originally posted this under St. Vincent, but I decided to post it here also! I feel better now, I've had my Granger fix!! But on the other hand, now I want more! I like the name of this book, it has a better ring to it. You definitely have me curious about what is to happen on the trip. Things at home seem to be calming down nicely, unless Prince William lied to George, and I doubt he would do that and risk the wrath of the king or prince of wales. I did notice he didn't say anything about the child, though. I wonder what you will do about Arthur...it doesn't feel to me like he will survive this trip...it may only be because of a tropical disease, but somehow I doubt he will survive. That's what I think. I also think it's time for Commander Calvert to show his handsome face again. What else...oh, that's enough for now. Great chapter, Mark!
Mark Arbour Posted April 16, 2012 Author Posted April 16, 2012 Odyssey: A long series of wanderings or adventures, especially when filled with notable experiences, hardships, etc Somehow, I think this book in the Bridgemont series will more than fulfill the meaning of its title. Sir George's character and very mettle seems likely to be sorely tested. That is likely true. But perhaps that will just make him stronger. Well, with a title like Odyssey, you know there is going to be some trials and tribulations... I bet that the same sirens that tempted Odysseus in the original Odyssey won't be the same ones that tempt our intrepid Granger... Scantily clad men trying to lure Granger onto the rocks? It could happen. I originally posted this under St. Vincent, but I decided to post it here also! I feel better now, I've had my Granger fix!! But on the other hand, now I want more! I like the name of this book, it has a better ring to it. You definitely have me curious about what is to happen on the trip. Things at home seem to be calming down nicely, unless Prince William lied to George, and I doubt he would do that and risk the wrath of the king or prince of wales. I did notice he didn't say anything about the child, though. I wonder what you will do about Arthur...it doesn't feel to me like he will survive this trip...it may only be because of a tropical disease, but somehow I doubt he will survive. That's what I think. I also think it's time for Commander Calvert to show his handsome face again. What else...oh, that's enough for now. Great chapter, Mark! Yeah, I was going to give you some crap about that, but I figured you'd end up in the right place eventually. I could tell you that I knew what was going to happen to Arthur, but that would be a lie. I haven't figured that out yet.
Daisy Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 I liked the start, just waiting for the rest . I don't like that prince though - or is it the Duke - I've forgotten, the one who fucked him anyway. Not my kind of guy. 1
Mark Arbour Posted April 17, 2012 Author Posted April 17, 2012 Which one? Gloucester? Good to see you, BTW
Westie Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Well well well.... we have a peerage being mooted. I actually predicted this back in the thread for HMS Belvidera, because its a logical progression. And its a finely balanced line that the King will have to maneuver. You have to remember that the King at this time was not an absolute monarch. Much of his influence was gained through the loyalty of powerful figures in parliament. The earl of Bridgemont is a powerful man, and this is his third son who has done exceptional service to His Majesty. The King has to pitch the level of the award right - certainly he can't make George senior to his father. However, pitch it too low and the earl might be offended, or worse, his friends might be. Granger has a cult following, and so the award needs to be enough that the mob are sated, but too much risks demoralizing the entire naval command structure. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to the next chapter.
centexhairysub Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 The new chapter is up and is great for setting the mood and temperment of the story as it develops. I thought it was great to see Granger dealing with the everyday tasks of shipboard life and the preparations to sail. Lt. Weston sounds like an interesting person and I look forward to getting to know him better. I was suprised to see Lt. Robey; I am not sure why but I think his appearance is going to lead to some interesting times. I can't wait to see who the first Lt ends up being, Roby just isn't senior enough I would think to end up first Lt on this type of vessel and trip. It was great to see George interacting with the Earl and Countess. I have to say I am a little suprised about how George is taking the idea of being given a peerage. I was thinking at least a Baron but more likely a Viscount would be the title George would end up with. You know he can't make Earl or higher because that would jump his father but anything less than a Baron would be sort of underwhelming. I wait for each new chapter in the Bridgemont series with all the hope of a new day... 1
Clydee Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Mark, I love this story! You could write a new chapter every day and I wouldn't have enough! In fact I think you should do just that! Great chapter, as usual...and I am excited to see what the King has planned for Sir George. Probably Viscount, at least. So if that was true, would his name become Lord George Granger or The Viscount Captain Sir George Granger ? Peerage has always been a mystery to me. Most likely because I ain't one! I just had a thought...the new man with the hook...he's trouble, ain't he??? Hmmmm! Or am I imagining things...'cause one handed men with hooks just have to be evil, don't they? Sorry, too many pirate movies! Arrrrggghhhh! After all the ho-haw doings of the last couple of chapters this one felt better to me individually. I'm not good with crises all the time and living at that level with the aristocracy and putting up with all their crap would drive me nuts. It's nice to see Granger back to preparing for his departure and getting his crew together. Lt. Robey!!! Yum! I'm really looking forward to the next chapter!
Westie Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 anything less than a Baron would be sort of underwhelming. Anything less than a baron wouldn't be a peerage 1
Daddydavek Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Granger's innovation in fitting the iron tanks for his new ship and personally supervising the initial installation shows his dedication to his craft. His assessment of the one-armed sailor is probably just spot on, but his taking the man probably made him another loyal sailor who will follow him anywhere. His two LT's including the surprising Robey are 2/3's of that triangle with one spot left to fill. His cabin sounds well thought out and up to his usual demanding standards. His appearance before the King and his Privy Council, his trip to Brentwood to tell Caroline, and getting his ship ready provide for a busy agenda. Love the new book so far!
JimCarter Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Another wonderful and interesting chapter. They may not be actual cliffhangers, but teasing us with the promise of what iis to come has given it an almost cliffhanger feel. Thanks again Mark for another wonderful chapter.
ricky Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Well, another fine mess we have here then Mark. Let's see where to begin. Well, as I mentioned in my review, if Arthur is not fit mentally then he will never be made Governor. It would be more aptly made to look like an accident of that he took his own life. But Arthur, who is also a threat to the brotherhood, must perish. But that will leave an opening for governor wouldn't it? Sir Phillip Kerry the most likely candidate. That would work as Bertie and Kerry were in the thing together, what ever it is. So it would be natural for this to occur. And with Arthur out of the way, Cavendish would be free to rejoin Granger as 1st LT wouldn't he? And what of our little Welshmen? will he leave the 18 pounder he ferreted away to his home and rejoin the captain? He must! He has such beautiful buns according to the picture Mark shared. No way he could be left "behind". (Sorry, I had to do it.) So lets see the crew Lord Arbour. And let's see if Granger can be shocked by his peerage. (A thing I do not fully comprehend but am learning.) I guess the King gives him land to manage and with it comes some money and clout. But it has to have some limits as it is all managed ultimately by his majesty. So what is the order of peerage? Baronette, then Baron and what comes after that and up to what status can one go? What comes with each? That may be too huge of a question. Pardon my ignorance. but I'm curious just how pissed off the King can make others. (What's the use in having the power of the King if you don't remind them that things are done at the discretion of the king, not at a rank and file or time honored path.) And Kings like to piss people off, it reminds them they are King. I suspect that giving away titlae to land that WOULD have been Glocousters inheritance would serve to spank the boy, cover down for his child to be and put Granger on a pedestal that would piss off the Wilcox clan. Perhaps make him a young admiral with a peerage. That would do it wouldn't it? Just seems to be how things work. Any thoughts?
Mark Arbour Posted April 22, 2012 Author Posted April 22, 2012 Well well well.... we have a peerage being mooted. I actually predicted this back in the thread for HMS Belvidera, because its a logical progression. And its a finely balanced line that the King will have to maneuver. You have to remember that the King at this time was not an absolute monarch. Much of his influence was gained through the loyalty of powerful figures in parliament. The earl of Bridgemont is a powerful man, and this is his third son who has done exceptional service to His Majesty. The King has to pitch the level of the award right - certainly he can't make George senior to his father. However, pitch it too low and the earl might be offended, or worse, his friends might be. Granger has a cult following, and so the award needs to be enough that the mob are sated, but too much risks demoralizing the entire naval command structure. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to the next chapter. That was really well put. Add to that the worry about Granger's potential enemies and detractors, as well as those of his father, who will look askance at any reward being given to someone they perceive to be an enemy. Jealousy and backbiting were very much a part of the Royal Navy of the time, especially since commands, promotions, and assignments were largely meted out to those who had influence. The new chapter is up and is great for setting the mood and temperment of the story as it develops. I thought it was great to see Granger dealing with the everyday tasks of shipboard life and the preparations to sail. Lt. Weston sounds like an interesting person and I look forward to getting to know him better. I was suprised to see Lt. Robey; I am not sure why but I think his appearance is going to lead to some interesting times. I can't wait to see who the first Lt ends up being, Roby just isn't senior enough I would think to end up first Lt on this type of vessel and trip. It was great to see George interacting with the Earl and Countess. I have to say I am a little suprised about how George is taking the idea of being given a peerage. I was thinking at least a Baron but more likely a Viscount would be the title George would end up with. You know he can't make Earl or higher because that would jump his father but anything less than a Baron would be sort of underwhelming. I wait for each new chapter in the Bridgemont series with all the hope of a new day... George has a basic modesty that adds to his charm, and makes things like a peerage, which some would assume, seem totally surprising to him. I think much of that stems from the fact that he doesn't really have to ask for anything (as opposed to Nelson, who was quite vocal about what he thought were reasonable rewards), other people fight those battles for him. He's the golden boy who gets to remain oblivious about backroom machinations, because the earl or Caroline or his other friends are back there pulling levers for him. Mark, I love this story! You could write a new chapter every day and I wouldn't have enough! In fact I think you should do just that! Great chapter, as usual...and I am excited to see what the King has planned for Sir George. Probably Viscount, at least. So if that was true, would his name become Lord George Granger or The Viscount Captain Sir George Granger ? Peerage has always been a mystery to me. Most likely because I ain't one! I just had a thought...the new man with the hook...he's trouble, ain't he??? Hmmmm! Or am I imagining things...'cause one handed men with hooks just have to be evil, don't they? Sorry, too many pirate movies! Arrrrggghhhh! After all the ho-haw doings of the last couple of chapters this one felt better to me individually. I'm not good with crises all the time and living at that level with the aristocracy and putting up with all their crap would drive me nuts. It's nice to see Granger back to preparing for his departure and getting his crew together. Lt. Robey!!! Yum! I'm really looking forward to the next chapter! If Granger were made a peer, he could become Lord Granger, or Lord Somethingelse (picking a geographic title). He wouldn't be Lord George Granger. Having his first name in the mix would only have been used if he was the younger son of a marquess or a duke. Lord Henry Paulet, for example, a Royal Navy officer at the time, was the younger son of a marquess, and was titled that way. We'll see if Fletcher turns out to be good or evil. Granger's innovation in fitting the iron tanks for his new ship and personally supervising the initial installation shows his dedication to his craft. His assessment of the one-armed sailor is probably not just spot on, but his taking the man probably made him another loyal sailor who will follow him anywhere. His two LT's including the surprising Robey are 2/3's of that triangle with one spot left to fill. His cabin sounds well thought out and up to his usual demanding standards. His appearance before the King and his Privy Council, his trip to Brentwood to tell Caroline, and getting his ship ready provide for a busy agenda. Love the new book so far! I'm actually stretching history here with the iron water tanks. They wouldn't become standard Admiralty issue until the early 1810s, but they were used in experimental applications as early as 1796. Well, another fine mess we have here then Mark. Let's see where to begin. Well, as I mentioned in my review, if Arthur is not fit mentally then he will never be made Governor. It would be more aptly made to look like an accident of that he took his own life. But Arthur, who is also a threat to the brotherhood, must perish. But that will leave an opening for governor wouldn't it? Sir Phillip Kerry the most likely candidate. That would work as Bertie and Kerry were in the thing together, what ever it is. So it would be natural for this to occur. And with Arthur out of the way, Cavendish would be free to rejoin Granger as 1st LT wouldn't he? And what of our little Welshmen? will he leave the 18 pounder he ferreted away to his home and rejoin the captain? He must! He has such beautiful buns according to the picture Mark shared. No way he could be left "behind". (Sorry, I had to do it.) So lets see the crew Lord Arbour. And let's see if Granger can be shocked by his peerage. (A thing I do not fully comprehend but am learning.) I guess the King gives him land to manage and with it comes some money and clout. But it has to have some limits as it is all managed ultimately by his majesty. So what is the order of peerage? Baronette, then Baron and what comes after that and up to what status can one go? What comes with each? That may be too huge of a question. Pardon my ignorance. but I'm curious just how pissed off the King can make others. (What's the use in having the power of the King if you don't remind them that things are done at the discretion of the king, not at a rank and file or time honored path.) And Kings like to piss people off, it reminds them they are King. I suspect that giving away titlae to land that WOULD have been Glocousters inheritance would serve to spank the boy, cover down for his child to be and put Granger on a pedestal that would piss off the Wilcox clan. Perhaps make him a young admiral with a peerage. That would do it wouldn't it? Just seems to be how things work. Any thoughts? Giving Granger a peerage wouldn't mean that the King was granting him land, although in the past that had been done. The first Duke of Marlborough, for example, was given an expansive grant of land and a sizeable award of cash from Parliament to build Blenheim Palace. It's more likely that the peerage would be granted based on the land and wealth that Granger already possesses.
Westie Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 So lets see the crew Lord Arbour. And let's see if Granger can be shocked by his peerage. (A thing I do not fully comprehend but am learning.) I guess the King gives him land to manage and with it comes some money and clout. But it has to have some limits as it is all managed ultimately by his majesty. So what is the order of peerage? Baronette, then Baron and what comes after that and up to what status can one go? What comes with each? A baronetcy is not a rank of the peerage. Baron is the lowest rank of the peerage, It then ascends in the following order: Viscount, Earl, Marquis, Duke. Technically there would be "Thane" in the Scottish parlance, but not used in this period (roughly equivalent to an earl). I have explained this a number of times before, but for the sake of clarity: a peerage is distinct and separate from any land or property. If granger is awarded a peerage, the title would in no way be linked to any land, except that he may be given a peerage named for some area or estate to which he has a connection. The fact that the peerage is NAMED after that land, does not mean that the peer need have anything to do with the ownership or management of that land. Mark uses the example of the Duke of Marlborough being given a grant of land and cash to build Blenheim Palace; its worth noting that the creation of John Churchill as the Duke of Marlborough predates the grant of the manor of woodstock by some 3 years, and so the title and land were not in any way linked. 1
centexhairysub Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Westie, you may know about this.... Isn't there something about the peerages created between 1707 and 1800. There were Acts of Union in both of those years but isn't there something different about peerages created during those years? Something about precedent or rank above those coming before or after??? I just remember reading something about it at one time. I believe if he is named a Baron, he would be titled The Lord Granger; and if a Viscount, The Lord " whatever the title is" or The Lord Granger. A Baronet is part of the aristocracy or gentry not the peerage. This is the point I was making about it being underwhelming... I really do think it would have to be a Baron or Viscount; that Granger was named to, I would love for him to be named an Earl but I just can't see it happening. That would make him on the same level as his father and I just don't know.... If he is named a Baron or a Viscount, would he outrank both his brothers, even Freddie, who would one day be an Earl? I know as an Earl he would outrank them but not sure about anything lower than that, even though I realize neither of them actually hold a title, Freddie's is because he is the son of an Earl. Maybe we could make Granger a Viscount and Bertie an Earl, wouldn't that just fry Freddie's brain... 1
Mark Arbour Posted April 22, 2012 Author Posted April 22, 2012 The other thing to consider is that while an earl would have precedence over a viscount, for example, that doesn't necessarily mean that the earl would be more influential or powerful than the viscount. It just means that the earl gets to walk into the House of Lords first at the State Opening of Parliament. (I'm sure there are a few other things too. ) This was even more pronounced on the Continent, where the actual title was much less important than the family name.
ricky Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 But suppose the Earle was given a notice and failed to mention it not wanting to tip the Kings hand and perhaps the Earle will be elevated to Marquis or Duke! Then the King could make Granger an Earle without upstaging his father and his father had been working towards that goal anyways and I doubt that was a secret. And sorry Westie, I think you explained it during a period when I was not yet enthralled with the knowledge and I must have overlooked it for the Raunchy sex. But I am a better educated person now. And such things are becoming an interest so I thank you for telling us once again. I was listening this time. So I must ask then, what the purpose of peerage was or is if it was not tied to land or power. Other than to have people call you lord? I mean, it must have a purpose, right? What is the benefit then? What power or influence does it have? Or perhaps I should ask, in what form does its power manifest itself?
Westie Posted April 23, 2012 Posted April 23, 2012 Westie, you may know about this.... Isn't there something about the peerages created between 1707 and 1800. There were Acts of Union in both of those years but isn't there something different about peerages created during those years? Something about precedent or rank above those coming before or after??? I just remember reading something about it at one time. I believe if he is named a Baron, he would be titled The Lord Granger; and if a Viscount, The Lord " whatever the title is" or The Lord Granger. Not quite. Prior to 1707 the peerage existed separately in England, Scotland and Ireland (note that Wales was not considered a separate country: it was part of England). Titles created within these peerages are considered the most senior. From 1707 (following the act of Union 1707 which joined Scotland to England as one nation) There was the Peerage of Great Britain. That lasted until the Act of Union 1800 joining Ireland and creating the Peerage of the United Kingdom (which is the most junior). In terms of forms of address, to call him Lord granger would be incorrect, unless the letters patent stated that as his specific title.
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