Bullying... The Bus Monitor?

[Celethiel]

I get the feeling my mother would react the same way as the old lady, possibly the same with her mother... on the other hand both have spanked me before when I was a kid...

My dad would have beat me if i did that....

His mother would have beat me if I did that, not to mention them...

 

I certainly would have spanked my kids for doing that...(if i had kids :I )

However that wouldn't be a job I'd want because I could see myself in that old womans shoes...

I was bullied as a kid, and that sort of thing sticks with you...

Not to mention I inherited a bit more of my mothers personality over my fathers...

 

To Ashi's comments about his childhood, I can definately see you as the talkitive kid...

 

To this subject ever think she knew that she was being video tapped and unlike the kids, knew that she'd have problems if she did do something... like loose her job or so on...

 

There is a such thing as a loose-loose situation... if she did do something she'd have been caught on camera doing it and instead the headlines would have been the opposite. And if she didn't well we saw what happened if she didn't...

[Y_B]

Gosh, why does this clip just seem so relevant to some posts in this thread?

 

[hh5]

Are you citing that Klein wasn't doing here job?

whereas Krista son's bus monitor was doing her job?

 

someone got the better of the deal?

Now is the question how will the board of ed investigate the situation and deal with it?

 

Still Klein being extremely hard of hearing was a asset to her position in rural NY

Eventually the students would given up the behavior by being ignored

The question is when will those students cross the line.

 

If this had taken place in NYC itself the treatment towards Klein would have been much worst

The students would have cross the line and perhaps Klein would have suffered physical harm

 

So yes, she had the authority and duty to stop what was happening.

 

Here's an interesting article from the CSM

(This, by the way, goes to one of the questions I’ve heard about this incident, which is why the bus monitor, the person supposedly in charge of keeping the peace on the yellow Lord of the Flies mobile, takes such abuse. Problematic, no?

 

 

And I agree. But her response, when asked why she didn’t try to discipline the children was a telling: “Why bother? What good is it going to do?”)

 

Any real consequences, I imagine, will (or won’t) take place within the homes of the children involved. And given the way the children acted on the bus – well, it’s easy to be a bit skeptical about whether any home-based reaction will be particularly effective.

 

One of the seventh grader’s dads, for instance, said the boys have suffered enough given the publicity of the video.

 

“He’s a 13-year-old kid,” Robert Helms told ABC news. “It was a stupid mistake and he’s paying for it, but I just think it’s a little out of control.”

 

Um, wrong.

http://www.csmonitor...ugh-for-bullies

Well the impact of the video goes beyond affecting the kids ... but its parents ... when people at the office would react to the news

If any of the parents are part of company administration and their boss read about it ... woof there comes a whole new set of issues

 

Meanwhile, just to give more ammunition to those who blame our “mean” culture for the middle school kids’ outrageous behavior, police in Greece, N.Y. have had to start patrolling the homes of the boys involved because they have reportedly received death threats.

...

Public school systems are hamstrung in handing out any real punishments, and at this point Klein says she does not want to press criminal charges.

Edited June 22, 2012 by hh5

[wildone]

http://www.cbc.ca/video/watch/News/World/ID=2248839759 Edited June 22, 2012 by wildone

[hh5]

how can this motto mean anything

 

"I don't see how anyone can watch that and not be touched by it. It made me realize — and I posted on my Facebook wall — that sticks and stones may break my bones but words will still hurt you no matter how old you are," said Deana Rock, a 42-year-old marketing professional from Williston, Vt., who pledged $30.

 

 

http://www.newsmax.c...06/22/id/443167

 

when a kid says

 

Students Apologize to Bus Monitor They Ruthlessly Taunted

The video shows Klein trying her best to ignore the stream of profanity, insults, and outright threats directed at her. One student taunted: "You don't have a family because they all killed themselves because they don't want to be near you." Klein's oldest son committed suicide 10 years ago, according to CNN.

 

 

The mother of one of the boys, Wesley, told Klein in a statement: “I cannot even tell you how badly I feel. I am deeply sorry for what my son did. I wish there was some way to make it up to you. I would like it if he could do some work for you or help you in some way. I'm sure that you don't want him anywhere near you or your property and I don't blame you. I am embarrassed, angry and sad about the awful way he treated you. I am truly sorry.”

 

Its the public who will react more to what they see before they get to know more about the situation

 

Police in the suburb of Greece had to step up patrols near the houses of the four boys and said they had received several threatening hoax calls from people. The boys had not yet apologized to Klein as of Thursday afternoon, though police said they regretted their acts and their parents are cooperating.

 

So do you think the parents will think much of the sticks n stones motto??

It took a whole week before apologies surfaced ... out of coercion and public face

If not for that video ... nothing would have happen

 

There's word that Obama is going to be seeing this video

Soon we'll see politician jump on this band wagon

Gosh its Election Year Material!! LOL

Edited June 22, 2012 by hh5

[W_L]

Myr made my point for me a few post up, I think there's a serious problem with the policies that a school district establishes and the enforcement of rules. I can understand that teachers and bus monitors in particular cannot seriously enforce discipline on kids with the huge legal battles and bias in the media. Even parents are now on a short watch, when I was a kid, my dad had whacked me on my hands for stealing some candy, a girl called the police. Seriously, I did something wrong, but if I were punished, then it is the adults at fault.

 

If adults cannot enforce the discipline, then what is holding back kid's from bullying them or bullying each other?

 

If there is a logic to human actions, it is that cruelty is essentially part of our basic nature. There is no such thing as "true" Tabula Rasa or the "blank slate", all human beings are born with innate desires along with innate potential. We can rise above it through education, effort, and effective management, but unless some one can enforce discipline, then chaos will ensue.

 

I feel bad for the woman and disagree with Tim on enforcement grounds; she can't forcefully discipline a child without raising hell in today's society, where "think of the Children" mantra from the 1970's has become a living message. (Funny thing, since the same woman, who made that stance was advocating it against gay people as evil and perverting youths.)

 

Well Cia, I hope you're right and this will not get pushed into the Soapbox with me joining the fray.

[methodwriter85]

I feel bad for the woman and disagree with Tim on enforcement grounds; she can't forcefully discipline a child without raising hell in today's society, where "think of the Children" mantra from the 1970's has become a living message. (Funny thing, since the same woman, who made that stance was advocating it against gay people as evil and perverting youths.)

Right. Tim is used to private schools, where the rules can be forced a little more effectively because the student body there is actually paying to go there, and they generally want to be there. Public schools are in constant threat of getting sued in a way that private schools are not. I mean, seriously- a teacher called a student "pathetic" and rude, and she gets suspended. You really think the bus monitor could have done or said anything to get them to stop?

 

BTW, the money is up to 578k now. Damn. She doesn't actually think she's going to see that money, and I kinda gotta agree with her, but it's an amazing gesture nonetheless.

[Y_B]

BTW, the money is up to 578k now.

 

Whaaaaaat??

 

 

Method, bring some friends, come to my house tonight and beat the shit outta me...oh and one of you record it on your cell phones. If you don't know how to upload to Youtube, I can show you but I gotta use your laptop. I don't wanna have to go back inside to get mine and risk bleeding on my mom's nice carpet...she'll beat my ass....hmmm on second thought, I'll walk inside...but one of you make sure to get a video of my mom beating my ass too.

[Ashi]

Whaaaaaat??

 

 

Method, bring some friends, come to my house tonight and beat the shit outta me...oh and one of you record it on your cell phones. If you don't know how to upload to Youtube, I can show you but I gotta use your laptop. I don't wanna have to go back inside to get mine and risk bleeding on my mom's nice carpet...she'll beat my ass....hmmm on second thought, I'll walk inside...but one of you make sure to get a video of my mom beating my ass too.

 

You're such a unruly child. Even if your mom doesn't whip your *ss, I'll do it (for free!). LOL! (I am joking)

 

Anyways, it's not an appropriate subject for joking. She is under some duress.... Whether she needs all that 578K is another matter, but we shouldn't mock the victim of a bully.

 

Hmm..., I wonder if we posted a video of me whipping your *ss, how many YouTube subscribers we could get.... More importantly, are we going to be more famous than One Direction? LOL! (mandatory comic relief)

Edited June 23, 2012 by Ashi

[Y_B]

Hmm..., I wonder if we posted a video of me whipping your *ss, how many YouTube subscribers we could get.... More importantly, are we going to be more famous than One Direction? LOL! (mandatory comic relief)

 

Sure, and if you let me whip your ass too, we can call ourselves the Both Directions.

[PrivateTim]

I feel bad for the woman and disagree with Tim on enforcement grounds; she can't forcefully discipline a child without raising hell in today's society, where "think of the Children" mantra from the 1970's has become a living message. (Funny thing, since the same woman, who made that stance was advocating it against gay people as evil and perverting youths.)

 

Right. Tim is used to private schools, where the rules can be forced a little more effectively because the student body there is actually paying to go there, and they generally want to be there. Public schools are in constant threat of getting sued in a way that private schools are not.

Half of my family including my mother, grandmother, two cousins, an uncle and two aunts, are professional educators (or retired) and not one is/was in a private school. My aunt and her husband teach in very tough schools and neither one has discipline problems. My cousins are in better districts, but that doesn't mean it is easier, it can be harder in some ways.

 

And given the amount of time I spend in public schools, I am well aware of what goes on and what teachers can and can not do. I know a bunch of kids who go to a high school where probably 30% of the school are gang members and probably 40% drop out, but these kids exhibit a level of respect and discipline that you wouldn't expect given all the negative things you hear about kids these days, but one of those "kids", now a Stanford grad, will be representing the US in London this summer.

 

It is possible to be a strict disciplinarian without raising your voice, calling kids names or physically touching them. I see it work every day.

[JamesSavik]

Listen to the girl who is the ringleader. Notice how she is emboldened to go even further when the victim shows pain. She's excited in a way that almost sexual.

 

I suspect that she has been sexually abused and has lost the normal empathy response that most people feel. She is excited by the pain of others- very, very high on the sociopathy scale.

 

You typically see this in prisoners with long sentences for torture/murders.

 

This girl is headed for deep trouble.

[Cia]

Right. Tim is used to private schools, where the rules can be forced a little more effectively because the student body there is actually paying to go there, and they generally want to be there. Public schools are in constant threat of getting sued in a way that private schools are not. I mean, seriously- a teacher called a student "pathetic" and rude, and she gets suspended. You really think the bus monitor could have done or said anything to get them to stop?

 

 

My children's public school district has a 3 strikes rule for the bus. Verbal warning, written warning with 2 days off the bus, parental meeting with a week of no bus... then no bus for the child for the remainder of the year or the next year if the infraction takes place at the end of the school year. It then becomes the parent's problem to get them to and from school. Obviously, that's required since they can't just not send their children to school.

 

Schools can have effective policies in place to prevent problems like bullying, violence, or unsafe behavior. Policies that don't include a teacher demeaning a student, which shouldn't be allowed either. An adult calling a student names when they are supposed to be teaching them not only to be a learned person, but a proper member of society, is acting in a hypocritical fashion. That can't be tolerated any more than teens should be able to talk to teachers or other students in a demeaning way. Otherwise, how can they expect to enforce no bullying and name calling?

 

Listen to the girl who is the ringleader. Notice how she is emboldened to go even further when the victim shows pain. She's excited in a way that almost sexual.

 

I suspect that she has been sexually abused and has lost the normal empathy response that most people feel. She is excited by the pain of others- very, very high on the sociopathy scale.

 

You typically see this in prisoners with long sentences for torture/murders.

 

This girl is headed for deep trouble.

 

Yeah, that might be a bit extreme. She wasn't torturing little bunnies or cutting heads off cats. Indication of a discipline problem, yes, signs of sexual abuse and a sociopath developing? I wouldn't go that far at all.

[W_L]

"Two guys and a whip", sounds classy

 

Whip it good boys!

 

$578K is good amount of money, she should be able to retire properly with that.

 

Half of my family including my mother, grandmother, two cousins, an uncle and two aunts, are professional educators (or retired) and not one is/was in a private school. My aunt and her husband teach in very tough schools and neither one has discipline problems. My cousins are in better districts, but that doesn't mean it is easier, it can be harder in some ways.

 

And given the amount of time I spend in public schools, I am well aware of what goes on and what teachers can and can not do. I know a bunch of kids who go to a high school where probably 30% of the school are gang members and probably 40% drop out, but these kids exhibit a level of respect and discipline that you wouldn't expect given all the negative things you hear about kids these days, but one of those "kids", now a Stanford grad, will be representing the US in London this summer.

 

It is possible to be a strict disciplinarian without raising your voice, calling kids names or physically touching them. I see it work every day.

 

My family also has history of teaching, my grandmother and grandfather were both teachers during the Cultural revolution of China, so I do understand the bigger issue of over-relaxed tendencies against tighter discipline and rules. Respect can be earned, but a threat is also necessary to enforce it. The strength of threats from adults in today's society is no longer as strong as it used to be. Back in your parent's days Tim, a teacher using a ruler to student's forearm was not out of order. Today, it's a multimillion dollar lawsuit and a media circus.

 

I am not saying that teachers should be allowed to discipline the kids in that manner, but I would relax the restriction against parents from doing it in their own homes without fear of Social Services deeming it child abuse; there are real cases of abuse and there are cases of overreaction due to society's heightened fears. You should not be beating your kids to the point of death, nor can you let them get away with behavior that would be destructive to others. Teachers can send letters and notices home for disciplinary action, but as long as there is no enforcement rules other than a mark or two on these kids' permanent record, which almost no one looks at outside of school systems, what enforcement provision do you really have?

 

Also, I do wonder about the differences between inner city public schools, suburban public school, magnet public schools, and other divisions. I come from a magnet school background, so I have different experience than a kid from an inner city school. My best friend from elementary school went through the system as well, but he did not end up at a magnet school, he ended up never graduating and just took a job at CVS, been trying to get him to at least go back to community college.

Edited June 23, 2012 by W_L

[wildone]

Tim, I applaud your family members and yourself to have taken the path of being in education (I take it from your comment that you deal with the education system, but what exactly isn't important).

 

I respect teachers and the education system for doing what they do with what money they have. Unfortunately to steer this towards a debate of if the education system is funded enough would steer this directly to the Soapbox.

 

My point, still, is that this monitor was essentially attacked and of no fault of her own. Teachers have been educated and deal with these issues on a daily basis. How much training/education did Mrs. Klein receive to handle this unthinkable act? Sure, we could say that the system has failed her and the kids in this case. I do have to ask though what is the solution? If you and Cia and others want people to ride the school buses that are experts in conflict resolution and enforcement of school board policies and procedures, then you better get ready to open your wallet to pay higher taxes to fund these people.

 

Personally, I think of the school bus monitor as like the parent/adult crossing guard. They are there for the safety of the children, but there is limits to what we can all expect them to do when things go wrong. Would you expect the crossing guard to drive/chase after and pursue someone who didn't stop in the crosswalk? They could make a citizens arrest and help with the prosecution of the law breaking driver?

 

I still maintain that she was the victim here and that she shares no blame for the incident.

 

It is the kids who are ultimately responsible. It is necessary to look at the system as well as the home environment to see where these kids failed, but it does not in one iota fall on Mrs. Klein.

[MJ85]

The idea that, "oh, she shouldn't have let those kids affect her that much"...

 

...is one of the most offensive things I've seen posted on this site.

[Ashi]

The idea that, "oh, she shouldn't have let those kids affect her that much"...

 

...is one of the most offensive things I've seen posted on this site.

 

Some people have never been bullied or didn't get into a situation where they're ganged up might say something like that. Anyways, I hope one day Karen will learn to stand up for herself. She probably has some self image issue also.... But then I am not a trained psychologist, so I should refrain from talking too much on the issue.

 

Sure, and if you let me whip your ass too, we can call ourselves the Both Directions.

 

No. One Direction only.

[Johnathan Colourfield]

The idea that, "oh, she shouldn't have let those kids affect her that much"...

 

...is one of the most offensive things I've seen posted on this site.

 

Entirely agreed. Kids like this are vultures and they prey on the weak. It's why I dont really like children that much.

[TetRefine]

The idea that, "oh, she shouldn't have let those kids affect her that much"...

 

...is one of the most offensive things I've seen posted on this site.

 

What an extremely in-depth and well thought out post! Unlike those of us who stated very clearly why we believed that, you simply put one of those little angry faces without explaining a thing. Good job.

Edited June 23, 2012 by TetRefine

[JamesSavik]

Yeah, that might be a bit extreme. She wasn't torturing little bunnies or cutting heads off cats. Indication of a discipline problem, yes, signs of sexual abuse and a sociopath developing? I wouldn't go that far at all.

 

 

Listen to her. She's getting off on it.

[Anya]

I think we can all agree that what those kids did was wrong. And I agree with some of you...she could have at least tried to do something. But on the other hand...not everybody can be such a hardass She's an old, defenseless, innocent woman for christ's sake and those kids were saying a lot of hurtful things, especially about her family killilng themselves and stuff when her son had committed suicide 10 years before. I'm sure all of us have something that can hurt us no matter how badass we are ;p And if someone uses that against us, it's hard to stay indifferent.

 

And also...Mrs Klein said, that she couldn't even hear all the stuff the kids were saying. She's hearing impaired. She didn't know how bad it was until she saw the video one of the kids was stupid enough to post on his facebook. So yeah...maybe they shouldn't have hired someone who's not really able to keep the kids under control but this is a problem with the school or the bus company or whoever not taking the bus monitor thing seriously apparently or else maybe they wouldn't have hired her. But anyway...that's not the point. The point is, that the kids were being cruel and they should be punished. Now I've heard that the bullies have been sent death threats and whatnot. While I understand the anger, I can't agree with that either. Two wrongs don't make a right. They shouldn't be beaten up or whipped or whatever. They should be made aware that their actions were wrong. And not just because now everyone knows what they did and hate them. I'm sure if the video hadn't gone viral, the bullies wouldn't think twice about their actions. Either way...I hope the school and especially the parents deal with this accordingly. And if they don't (cos obviously they must suck as parents) well....at least the kids know that most of the world now knows what they did and definetely isn't as impressed by it as they were. At least they have to deal with the shame and embarrassment this has brought on them and their family. And they'll probably be outcasts at school

 

I just can't believe one of them was stupid enough to post that horrible video on Facebook...Karma's a bitch

Edited June 23, 2012 by Anya

[W_L]

Actually, the posting thing to me seemed pretty natural. Whether it's facebook or youtube, kids just like putting their lives on display to get other people's attentions. (The kid, who posted this video, probably will make a good marketing executive or political campaigner. It's not really right or wrong to them, it's about acknowledgement from the world.)

 

If you want a talking solution, without any threat or punishment associated (you can't stop the kid from going online or grounding them to their rooms as teenager, they'll just run off to their friends house), then you really got to first know your kids and acknowledge their problems, no matter how trivial or insignificant it is in reality.

 

I don't think a talking solution will be effective for everyone as the concept of reason is still new to these kids and their rebellious instincts make it rather difficult to hold onto. A bit of discipline and reason should be used.

 

or...you can use this approach:

 

 

Brave New World, isn't it? I've seen a few parents take their kids out for walks like this.

Edited June 23, 2012 by W_L

[Cia]

James: I dread to think of why you believe any sort of gloating self-satisfaction instantly has to be 'getting off on it'. I would agree that she's enjoying the power trip she's experiencing but making that leap to a sexual pleasure is not logical in my mind.

 

The leash thing is very common. As a stay at home mom, I've seen a ton of kids leashed over the years. I always found it more than a little bit ridiculous. They also make belts with alarms you can trigger if your kid gets too far from you and squeaky shoes so you can hear them walking around. Those drove me nuts. Though I had a 3 year old and 1 year old both moving at one point and definitely saw the draw of the idea of a leash, I never used one. What I did instead? I taught my kids to stay close to me or be punished. At that age it usually meant being confined to a stroller or the sling, or we would go home.

 

Punishment for teenagers is very different than younger kids, I'll grant you that. However, the biggest job is laying down that foundation when the kids are young. If you prove that your kids must abide by the punishment they receive or they'll get a worse one, then it can work when they are older. You just have to know the right lever to get your kids to dread being punished, at all ages. My kids respond well to loss of movie night or computer privileges, and my best friend has a 13 year old and the child would rather wash dishes for 2 weeks as a punishment than lose a week of cell phone as proven by a recent punishment episode. These kids parents have screwed up in the parenting department but one can hope they will learn from their mistakes as well.

 

The kids in the video are definitely shamed and the weight of that is probably huge for many of them, beyond whatever punishment they receive from parents, the school, or the police. I saw a television interview with the kid that did the video and the idiot barely looked up the whole time. I found the conversation of 'you should never let peer pressure get to you' to be too little, too late, but it is a good deterrent for others in the area for a long while I'll bet.

[Anya]

Actually, the posting thing to me seemed pretty natural. Whether it's facebook or youtube, kids just like putting their lives on display to get other people's attentions. (The kid, who posted this video, probably will make a good marketing executive or political campaigner. It's not really right or wrong to them, it's about acknowledgement from the world.)

They got acknowledgement alright. Hope they're proud of themselves

 

And also...I ain't saying there shouldn't be any punishment. Or that it would be enough to just talk to them. I'm just saying that whipping or beating the children or sending death threats their way...doesn't seem like such a smart solution is all Maybe they should think about therapy

Edited June 23, 2012 by Anya

[PrivateTim]

I think we can all agree that what those kids did was wrong. And I agree with some of you...she could have at least tried to do something. But on the other hand...not everybody can be such a hardass She's an old, defenseless, innocent woman for christ's sake and those kids were saying a lot of hurtful things, especially about her family killilng themselves and stuff when her son had committed suicide 10 years before. I'm sure all of us have something that can hurt us no matter how badass we are ;p And if someone uses that against us, it's hard to stay indifferent.

 

If she can not be a "hard ass" she has no business working with junior high kids, especially in her role as a bus monitor where she is there to control them.

 

She is not a "defenseless" woman (what does gender have to do with it anyway?), she is a person with the full weight of authority of the school system behind her. And what does age have to do with it? No way in h-e-double hockey sticks would my 82 year grandmother have put up with that BS. She'd have destroyed the little ships. Because Karen didn't nip it in the bud from the first comment, it went on.