Gen Xer's Bearing the Brunt of the Recession

[methodwriter85]

I've been kind of wallowing in my Gen Yer angst about the lack of entry-level jobs, but it was an interesting to come across an article that pointed out that it's the Generation Xers(people about Private Tim's age up to about Gregory A's age) that are really getting screwed here.

 

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/06/21/Gen-X-Disproportionally-Affected-by-the-Recession.aspx#page1

 

It's like they got screwed by the recession of the late 80's/early 90's when they were my age and looking for entry-level jobs, and then got screwed again when they were ready to start moving into higher levels of management, only this time they had built up families and mortgages and couldn't just live on ramen in a studio apartment to ride it out.

 

Right now the Gen Xers should be moving into positions being vacated by the Baby Boomers, but of course, that's not happening. It'll be interesting to see what long-term consequences this might have on the Gen Xer psyche.

[Canuk]

ok if we are going to pick a gen that's being screwed, try the youngest boomers - we are reaching the top of our careers, with all the stresses that involves we have ageing parents who want to remain in their own homes but need constant care and we have kids who hang about because they can't find a job that fullfills them. Oh yes and our gen X nieces and nephews say we're hogging the good jobs.

 

no wonder we drink more than other generations combined!

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Wait. Who's a victim here? Whats all this responsibility shifting? Other people aren't responsible, no matter how young OR old they are, for people's personal life situations. You can't go blaming generations for your problems, what's the point of that?

You got handed a crappy economy. Well, so did I, in 1981 as Reagan cleaned up Carter's mess. I don't recall being so...unhappy about "other generations" as I looked for work. I recall feeling lucky I got a job at a drug store for a couple of years to pay for gas and my car note. The economy in Michigan didn't turn around for years. Who should I blame for all the problems I had finding work in 1982 or 83? Would that be the president? Or my grandparents and parents for voting him in? The unions? The car makers? Who?

 

Had I not gone in the military at 21 (having blown my chances at college, but I equate my navy time as the same kind of life experience), I'd be fixing mufflers somewhere. I got a job doing inventory control counting little bags of grease and CV joint boots for a big automotive, and taught myself how to fix PCs as I went. That job sucked. So did the one after it, and the one after that, and the one after that. So I used each job to learn more and more and more and then built it into a business where I get paid to do what I like to do. It wouldn't have happened right out of school, it took 20 years of learning to do it. It wasn't handed to me, I didn't get a big check and I sure know that the long periods of doing crap work were my choices, not some "burden" that got put on me by a previous generation.

 

I don't think my dad intended to lose his money and his mind in 2007 and 2008, but here we are, supporting Mom (who can't work) and whining about it accomplishes nothing. No one is intentionally screwing people out of jobs, no one's trying to stick it to anyone because of their age.

 

This is life. The real deal, where no one's looking out for you and no one's going to hand you a six figure income or a new insurance card. This is how it plays out. You find your opportunities and you use them. You don't wait for a job to open, you find or make one. Yeah its tough and no, it might not be on your career trajectory yet, but I didn't hit my "career" until I was 35.

 

Get into the workforce, whatever the job. Start where you can, and move up or sideways or juke or whatever you have to do, but no one, not the generation before you, and not the ones that follow you, owe you a thing or even an explanation. You, and you alone, are responsible for making your way in the world. Don't expect handouts, don't expect anything but some possible commiseration about your fate.

 

Now I realize I'm coming off as some oldster kicking you off my lawn, but really. Really? Do you really feel entitled to a job? To a successful economy? Who owes you this? I don't.

[Ashi]

I've been kind of wallowing in my Gen Yer angst about the lack of entry-level jobs, but it was an interesting to come across an article that pointed out that it's the Generation Xers(people about Private Tim's age up to about Gregory A's age) that are really getting screwed here.

 

http://www.thefiscal...sion.aspx#page1

 

I am going to quote a little sign posted in Berkeley's Telegraph area, "Welcome to People's Park, where everyone gets a blister."

 

Everyone, in all age group, all get some cut. Notice what the data shows.... The percentage of networth.... When you have a percentage, assuming the statistics are collected using the correct methods with enough sample size, you need to know two thing, like all ratios: what's in the numerator, and what's in the denominator. Numerator is obviously the new networth (networth after depression) and denominator is the old networth (before depression). For people like me, who didn't have lot of networth to begin with, the number won't be very sensational. That is, if we didn't have much money to begin with, we don't have much more left to lose.

 

The age group that the stats shows the largest slash of networth are the same people who made their fortune during dot.com bubble era. Who as long as they "gambled" on some stocks and/or work for a dot.com company and received stock options (which includes everyone, even an ex-coworker who switch job to work as a paper shredder for Google..., that's right, a person whose job is just shredding office paperwork, got some stock options) earned some money they may or may not deserve (but that's not our job to judge). So that age group will include some people who are disproportionally rich without doing anything special. So when the time that type of economic condition bust (which wasn't realistic to begin with) will get slashed the most. It's only normal. Just like here in SF Bay Area, we got boom the most, but we also got distress the most when the game ends (our job slashed dramatically, but living expense doesn't really lower that much. Trust me, you don't want to be here looking for a job, because you'll be homeless in no time).

 

Back in the dot.com era, when I was going to a job fair, they are curious why I even asked about whether I need a degree to take a job. Lots of them got a job, didn't have qualifying degree, and merely was flying high with the wind. That's just the era. Nowadays, people with several degrees are fighting for a job that's way below their level, and they'll get one if they're lucky and/or have plenty of connection. And the most important part is, you need to have some work experience before you can get a job.... But how can you get a job without given a chance to begin with? I've been rejected to be in finance job (which is my degree, plus a half-way through accounting information system) because all my previous work experience is in retailing.... WTF was that reasoning? Trust me, they just want to reject as many people as they can during this time, because way too many applicants and all the jobs are gone. Either we lose that through outsourcing to oversea, or we lost it to computerized automation. I can talk about this issue FOREVER, and probably would get a master degree after I am done.

 

What I am saying here is, the stats is useless.

 

Now I realize I'm coming off as some oldster kicking you off my lawn, but really. Really? Do you really feel entitled to a job? To a successful economy? Who owes you this? I don't.

 

I don't think anyone here suggested that. Methodwriter was merely reading what the stat says (which is useless data, btw). Yes, it's life. Doesn't mean it's fair, but I come to understand that. There are lots of people with two college degrees who are still working for minimum wages right now, if they are lucky. Your time and our time are different, so please don't think the situation applies across the board.

 

As I always say, "Do not complain unless you can do something about it." Or at least know some leads.

 

Underlying issues:

 

We're in the correction period. Unrealistic gain from dot.com era is being corrected to normal level. Over-aggressive behavior (and some unethical ones) of some companies made during that era is being reprimanded, and EVERYONE is suffering as a side effect, even the ones don't deserve it. That's life.... We got burned for someone else's fault, but what can you do about it? Can you be vengeful toward a certain group, when you don't know if some individual, belong to that group was merely lumped into that group because of certain criteria? (Are all 1% people bad? Are all IPO era people gain their wealth through gambling via the stock market? Are all homeless people merely lazy? etc. I've heard arguments attacking Greeks from certain nations who don't even know the heart of the problems.... Very unfair attack, but makes a good headline isn't it? People just need something to hate... Before it was religion, then race, then sexuality, now what?)

 

Many top management people don't know what they're doing. If you have applied a job in the U.S., you know why they hire you are a series of legitimization, not your competence level.

 

Once you are in the entry level job, you're unlikely to get to the top, because there is a big division between people underneath and people on top. "Up stair" people don't know what's going on in the down stair." They never will meet you, they never will never ask your advice, they never will know what's going on everyday operation directly from down stair people, if you're working in a big corporation like I was. I am mentioning this because top management people usually have never worked as a bottom fish, so they really don't know the working condition at the bottom level, so when they lay off people, they do not realize the social consequences and ripple effect of it. They really are just that ignorant, not because they're evil. Many of them don't even know if they lay off people, they're laying off their customers.... They cut their own revenue source, and increase the government's load on handing out welfare, and unless the government increase taxation, the government will have to declare bankruptcy, and those tax will in the end bite themselves in the *ss. Finance is exactly like a chemistry formula, everything must be balanced. Someone's gain is coming off someone's loss. Accounting formula Asset = Liability + Owner's Equity (networth) even looks suspiciously like a chemistry formula. The problem is everyone is selfish....

 

I'll end the argument here. I've said too much already. This will be my last post on the issue. My last word is, don't dismiss the other group, unless you are living through it and know the story first-handed.

[TetRefine]

Should we be blaming the older generations for our problems and making excuses? Absolutely not. But I'm sorry, the 1981 economy that some of you inherited was not the same as the late 2000s-early 2010s one we inherited. We got by far the shit end of the stick comparatively.

[Zombie]

Who ate all the pies??

 

[methodwriter85]

Should we be blaming the older generations for our problems and making excuses? Absolutely not. But I'm sorry, the 1981 economy that some of you inherited was not the same as the late 2000s-early 2010s one we inherited. We got by far the shit end of the stick comparatively.

 

Also, in 1981, people did not on average have 20k in student loan debt to pay off. College tuition and costs have far outpaced normal inflation rates over the past couple of decades, to the point where even in-state tuition at a state college rises well above the 10k cost. I talked to a guy who went to my undergrad in the late 1980's, when the tuition and board was once $2,700. Now it's $11,000, before you even get into on-campus living costs. Even taking inflation into account, that's a pretty sharp rise.

 

 

And the most important part is, you need to have some work experience before you can get a job.... But how can you get a job without given a chance to begin with?

Welcome to the unpaid internship. I've done 3. I might have to resort to another one just to keep my skillset current.

Edited June 27, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Should we be blaming the older generations for our problems and making excuses? Absolutely not. But I'm sorry, the 1981 economy that some of you inherited was not the same as the late 2000s-early 2010s one we inherited. We got by far the shit end of the stick comparatively.

 

Actually as an 18 year old in 1981, a crappy economy is a crappy economy, just like it is now. It makes no difference how you compare the different time frames,my point is that if you can't find work in your "chosen" career path, the effect is the same and what you do about it is too: you work yourself out of it using whatever means you have available to you until it gets better. I had dinner with a 25 year old whose been done with school for 2 years and still lives at home with no job because he won't stoop to clerking in his dads law firm, and he's got a law degree of some type. He's "waiting for the right opportunity".

[W_L]

Wow, okay this is an economic discussion, so I am hoping and praying not get dragged into the Soapbox before my prohibited time

 

Methodwriter, I agree with you on some points. The issue is a big one and statistically younger people around 18-35 are going on the unemployment rolls more often according to the BLS with the group also comprising a portion of the "not in workforce" population, people discouraged from work usually. It is a lot harder to find jobs that you were trained for than in the past as retirement is being pushed back with losses in investment saving accounts and issues with banks during the 2007-2008 Great Recession. Back in the 1980's, even with the S&L scandal, you never had so much money completely wiped out as you did during the recent economic turmoil.

 

Gene Splicer has good points, too, the amount of community banks that defaulted made the government have to jump in to the rescue using the FDIC mechanism, which at that point only insured about $100K, a pittance for many retirees and near retirement age people. The true extent damage of the Great Recession was not only on the jobs lost, but on the jobs that cannot be lost as a result of lost savings.

 

The trillions of dollars lost was not only in mortgages, but the hard working earnings of millions of Americans, who placed their money in savings accounts as well. While the lost on IRAs, 401Ks, and other retirement investment accounts are usually pointed to first, many people, who were scared of investment from the 1980's recession and 2000 dot com bust, lost their money just by saving it.

 

As for opportunities in this dark age, I got several open positions right now, but you guys have to work long hours and handle a lot of crap at one of the Health Centers I oversee. When I tell people that I work in health care, most of them assume that I make big bucks; that's not true. Non-Profit health care is not supposed to be about making loads of cash if you're doing it right. Whatever money you make is meant to go into a reserve fund to weather financial storms. (There is a caveat, large health groups that use the non-profit exemption can make huge profits by leveraging their business on scale into price breaks and deals with insurers. It's why some non-profits can have multi-billion dollar balance sheets, while I am managing only several million. The IRS probably should enforce the provisions better, but they just don't have the manpower to do it.)

 

I am not saying go work as a health care case worker, but those areas are open and require just minor certification and patience. You won't get bonuses, or get six figure salaries, it's probably around 35K a year at most, but you will at least be working.

 

I offer people these jobs, hoping they understand that you must be realistic about the current environment and a degree in management or even finance means very little in the grand scheme of things.

 

@Ash: I actually do go down to work with the guys below me and still sit at Board meetings Seriously, I know I am an exception to the rule, but I don't like sitting in an office all day having people give me numbers that hold no meaning. I like to go down the ground floor get in touch with supervisors to figure out where these numbers are coming from, how they're doing personally, and who they picked in the March madness pool. Probably, it's because I am a technical manager and not a "manager" manager with an MBA, I have a masters degree too, but I prefer wide specialization over control (My Myers-Briggs is ENTP, so accounting is already weird). Maybe, I'll be grumpier and meaner if I ever become a CFO, but as a Manager and Controller, I'm just your average geeky gay 25 year old.

Edited June 28, 2012 by W_L