[DomLuka] DD18

[TheZot]

So, Aaron's a lush. Anyone surprised?

I'm not surprised he drinks -- given the stress he's got to deal with at home I'd be surprised if he didn't drink. I knew a number of people in high school who used alcohol or drugs to escape an utterly crap home life, and while it's not a good way to escape, it's often the only way people see.

 

That doesn't make Aaron any less of a cretin. It doesn't excuse what he said when he was drunk (there's an awful lot of truth in alcohol), it doesn't excuse his manipulative behavior when he's been sober, it doesn't make the way he treats his brothers any better (though the older of the two's a creep as well), and it certainly doesn't make the people he's hanging around with any less worrisome. From how he's written it seems pretty clear that Aaron is likely to be a jerk even if he was straight and didn't have to deal with his parent's homophobia -- the only difference there is that the attractive little snake would be charming and f**king over girls instead of boys.

 

Not that Rory's any prize either. After 18 chapters of seeing him in action, I think Seth'd be better off with Luke, honestly. Rory's a short-sighted, thoughtless, untrusting, mildly paranoid, manipulative little twit. The only thing I can see that he's got going for him is that there's at least the reasonable possibility of

redemption there, since he's at least got external events that've set him up to be this way. If he doesn't shape up, though... too bad for him.

 

Besides, if Seth dates Luke that means Dave's got a good chance to get together with Angela, and honestly Dave seems to be the best of the bunch.

 

-Dan

[sat8997]

Not that Rory's any prize either. After 18 chapters of seeing him in action, I think Seth'd be better off with Luke, honestly.

Oh, I like this one. Seth and Luke,mmm.....

 

Rory's a short-sighted, thoughtless, untrusting, mildly paranoid, manipulative little twit.

Perfect definition of a teenager.

 

 

Sharon

[carmichael]

There's a lot of truth on this forum, for once. (Just kidding)

 

Flat out, Rory doesn't deserve Luke. Luke's the type of kid that may not be the smartest, most handsome, or most suave character Dom's ever written, but he's got this charm about him that is irrefutable. He's quite the catch.

 

I'm not going to go as far as calling Rory thoughtless or manipulative, but he's has a lot to learn. I feel like his inability to trust easily comes from his situation and the circumstances within which he's reached this point in his life, but that's still somethings he has to work on.

 

He's a bad judge of character -- I'll give you that. He was certainly caught up in the first-time this, first-time that mentality, and I hope in this case the first cut is the deepest.

 

On a side note: I don't want to be the only one defending Rory here, but he's really gone through quite a lot the past several months, and he seems to be feeling pretty alone sometimes. Rory's judgmental and sort of paranoid, and it has to be obvious to everyone in that house -- I hate to say it, but he really, really needs someone to talk to. About Aaron. About Luke. About Seth. About his Mom. Just how long can Dom take this story down the dramatic, love affair path before we get to some of Rory's real problems -- such as where he's going to be living in a few weeks. We sort of had semi-closure on a few of these topics, but you know Dom; they'll be back soon. And I don't think it'll be at an opportune time.

[Guest ziggler15]

This was my favorite chapter....I can't decide how I feel about some of the characters though....I agree, Rory is being rather stupid...and I don't like Aaron very much...he just uses too many people...and as for Luke and Seth, I can see Rory with either one...there are hints to both of them being interested in Rory.

 

As for the ending, I have to agree that Seth was totally cute, but I think Rory's going to have a problem with his dad, because of the hickey...and I'm not sure if Rory is going to 'fess up and tell the truth about Aaron, or if he's going to keep quiet and let Eddie think that it was Seth who gave it to him...I know Rory always bitches about being told the truth, but I'm not sure if he's willing to tell it. If he lets Eddie believe it was Seth, I will be disappointed in him...especially after being rescued by Seth...who knows what would have happened if Seth hadn't been there...

 

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm gonna be on edge until the next chapter...I need questions answered, and I'm looking forward to some new excitement....Later....

[sat8997]

I'm probably going to get stoned for this (and not the good kind of stoned ) but I see Luke in the role of the straight best friend (ie: Brad, Ryan, Nicky) without the straight part.

 

I've noticed there isn't one of those, and Dom's main charactor always has a best friend so that's Luke's slot.

 

Sharon

[NaperVic]

I'm probably going to get stoned for this (and not the good kind of stoned ) but I see Luke in the role of the straight best friend (ie: Brad, Ryan, Nicky) without the straight part.

 

I've noticed there isn't one of those, and Dom's main charactor always has a best friend so that's Luke's slot.

 

Sharon

 

OMG! I was thinking the exact same thing last night! -- That Luke fills that unconditional friendship role. The good news is that there is a chance that Rory gets to sleep with Luke though , unlike Owen V. Nicky, Quinn V. Brad, and Aiden V. Ryan.

 

Vic The D-holic

[Philistine]

I'm probably going to get stoned for this (and not the good kind of stoned ) but I see Luke in the role of the straight best friend (ie: Brad, Ryan, Nicky) without the straight part.

 

I've noticed there isn't one of those, and Dom's main charactor always has a best friend so that's Luke's slot.

 

Sharon

 

you're totally right. i'd completely forgotten about that. they're also usually there from the beginning, too (which would only really fit luke). unless dam has changed his style...

[Alan]

First of all, we don't know if Aaron went to Court (as a minor, he would need a parent to be present if he were a defendant.)

 

Chapter 6

 

"He never told the truth?"

 

"Oh, he came and apologized to us when it was all over, but up until then he was playing the role of the innocent victim... even when it went to court. He still said that I did it. I guess I

[rknapp]

Perfect definition of a teenager.

 

 

Sharon

 

 

 

I resent that remark! Don't judge me by my peers!

[Ann]

I think Eddie and Jase know it would be bad for Rory to go back to his grandma

[Andronicus]

I'm starting to have parenting issues with Eddie. He's Rory's father. Sending Rory back to the tender mercies of Alice the Incomprehensible does not strike me as a viable parenting option at this stage.

 

Yep, whether or not he should, Eddie has so far refused to take on the role of father. He won't impose that on Rory; he is waiting for Rory to choose it, even though that allows the possibility that Rory may not. And, despite all evidence to the contrary, Eddie still believes that Rory had a life in his old hometown and thus has something worthwhile to which to return. He respects the fact that Alice has been there for Rory all his life, while he hasn't.

 

Eddie's inexperienced fumbling is painful to watch. He really does need to step up to the plate. So what if Rory rebels at first when told it's best for him to stay in AZ? He's a minor. What's he going to do? Where's he going to go? How long can Rory resent Eddie for acting in his best interest and being what he is: Rory's father, with all the responsibilities that that implies.

 

Thanks for saving me looking up chapter 6, Alan. I was sure Aaron had been in court.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Andronicus

[Tim the Traveller]

I resent that remark! Don't judge me by my peers!

resent, resemble, it's all good

[Bao]

just because we're alittle paranoid, dosnt mean "they " arent out to get us.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Bao

[JotaJota31]

I'm probably going to get stoned for this (and not the good kind of stoned ) but I see Luke in the role of the straight best friend (ie: Brad, Ryan, Nicky) without the straight part.

 

I've noticed there isn't one of those, and Dom's main charactor always has a best friend so that's Luke's slot.

 

Sharon

 

I was also kind of thinking that because so far in the story Luke has been portrayed as kind of asexual. We know he is gay, but besides the thing with Aaron in the deep past, it seems like we never see a sexual side of him. I'm wondering if that side of Luke will get explored in this story at all or if it will be all about Rory.

[sat8997]

I resent that remark! Don't judge me by my peers!

 

Yeah, well....one of your peers lives in my house so I'm an expert.

 

Sharon

[AFriendlyFace]

I believe in Chapter 17, when Aaron was finally having a real conversation with Rory, he stated that his parents were furious when they found out he'd been with Luke the night of the car theft, BUT that he said Luke picked HIM up, and already had the car. He said they would have been more angry had they known that it was him that approached Luke and not the other way around.

 

As for Eddie demanding that Rory stay in Arizona I think that would be a huge mistake. Father or not I agree that it isn't Eddie's place to make that decision. Like her not Alice is much closer to a real parent for Rory than Eddie is. I agree that Rory SHOULD stay in Arizona, and that he is better off given his lack of close relationships back home, and the fact that the whole gay thing won't be as big an issue in Arizona, but good for him or not, it has to be something he wants or he's going to Sabotage it. How long could he be resentful and rebellious? Depends on what kinda person he is, anywhere from a day or two to the rest of his life.

 

And he isn't in any kind of danger back home. It would be one thing if Eddie HAD to act to prevent Rory from falling into danger or something. He may be HAPPIER in AZ in the long run, but there's no reason to think he'd be miserable back home either. Sure his grandmother can be alot, but she really does have his best interests at heart, and he's had a lifetime to learn how to deal with her. Besides even though they're bickering now, it's clear they care about each other. I of course hope he does stay in Arizona, and I can't believe he was so dense he didn't realize that it upset Eddie when he talked about going home, but in the long run it's got to be his decision.

 

I know some have said he might take Aaron back, and I don't know why I'd give him any credit, but still I get the impression he's done with Aaron (romantically anyway). I also agree that as he is, he isn't good enough for Luke, but perhaps he'll get better. What frustrates me about Rory isn't so much his blind self-centeredness, it's his rude, jerkish behavior when he realizes someone he's uncomfortable with is being nice to him. The early scenes with Eddie at the airport, and when Eddie askes Rory if he wants to drive for the first time ("you want it wrecked?"). THAT there just isn''t an excuse for, it even said he realized Eddie was trying to be nice. Then in this chapter at the end when Seth's being nice to him, it mentions how surprised he is, then he proceeds to be the biggest jerk he can be. I can forgive him running out to sit on a cactus because he's upset and not thinking clearly. But when he IS thinking clearly and consciously decides to be mean....well that's just wrong IMO.

 

One more thing did anyone notice in the last chapter, when they pull into the driveway Rory begins to open his door before the truck's even stopped. But then when he gets to the front of it he "find's Seth waiting for him". Now how could Seth has stopped the truck, taken it out of gear, put on the park break, turned it off, opened his door and gotten out, walked to the front, and be WAITING for Rory, when Rory was already halfway out the door before Seth started doing any of these things? LOL Seth musta really been scrambling

[sat8997]

OMG! I was thinking the exact same thing last night! -- That Luke fills that unconditional friendship role. The good news is that there is a chance that Rory gets to sleep with Luke though , unlike Owen V. Nicky, Quinn V. Brad, and Aiden V. Ryan.

 

Vic The D-holic

 

OOhhh.....perks.

 

Sharon

[Rocketcnj]

I believe in Chapter 17, when Aaron was finally having a real conversation with Rory, he stated that his parents were furious when they found out he'd been with Luke the night of the car theft, BUT that he said Luke picked HIM up, and already had the car. He said they would have been more angry had they known that it was him that approached Luke and not the other way around.

___________________________________________________________________

 

Friendly Face: It Just goes to show you the liar that Aaron is. Thanks for those that pointed out that Aaron was in court and testified under oath, committing perjury (a crime) and how untrustworthy the TLS is!

________________________________________________________________________

As for Eddie demanding that Rory stay in Arizona I think that would be a huge mistake. Father or not I agree that it isn't Eddie's place to make that decision. Like her not Alice is much closer to a real parent for Rory than Eddie is. I agree that Rory SHOULD stay in Arizona, and that he is better off given his lack of close relationships back home, and the fact that the whole gay thing won't be as big an issue in Arizona, but good for him or not, it has to be something he wants or he's going to Sabotage it. How long could he be resentful and rebellious? Depends on what kinda person he is, anywhere from a day or two to the rest of his life.

And he isn't in any kind of danger back home. It would be one thing if Eddie HAD to act to prevent Rory from falling into danger or something. He may be HAPPIER in AZ in the long run, but there's no reason to think he'd be miserable back home either. Sure his grandmother can be alot, but she really does have his best interests at heart, and he's had a lifetime to learn how to deal with her. Besides even though they're bickering now, it's clear they care about each other. I of course hope he does stay in Arizona, and I can't believe he was so dense he didn't realize that it upset Eddie when he talked about going home, but in the long run it's got to be his decision.

 

I know some have said he might take Aaron back, and I don't know why I'd give him any credit, but still I get the impression he's done with Aaron (romantically anyway). I also agree that as he is, he isn't good enough for Luke, but perhaps he'll get better. What frustrates me about Rory isn't so much his blind self-centeredness, it's his rude, jerkish behavior when he realizes someone he's uncomfortable with is being nice to him. The early scenes with Eddie at the airport, and when Eddie askes Rory if he wants to drive for the first time ("you want it wrecked?"). THAT there just isn''t an excuse for, it even said he realized Eddie was trying to be nice. Then in this chapter at the end when Seth's being nice to him, it mentions how surprised he is, then he proceeds to be the biggest jerk he can be. I can forgive him running out to sit on a cactus because he's upset and not thinking clearly. But when he IS thinking clearly and consciously decides to be mean....well that's just wrong IMO.

 

Friendly Face, as always you nailed it perfectly!! Well said!

 

Now, all of you can stone me..but I am getting so annoyed at Rory..he reminds me of a Gay Male Junior Grandma Alice..he acts as rudely as she does and says the rudest things without thinking just the way Grandma Alice does! Rory is as clueless about others feelings as is Grandma Alice....they are two peas in a pod....and both drive me totally crazy!

 

I am beginning to think that Seth (assuming he proves to be the good guy he so far appears to be in the last chapter) and Luke should end up as BFs and Rory needs to grow up and get out the brat mode he seems to be permanently in!

 

Michael

Edited December 14, 2005 by Rocketcnj

[Alan]

I believe in Chapter 17, when Aaron was finally having a real conversation with Rory, he stated that his parents were furious when they found out he'd been with Luke the night of the car theft, BUT that he said Luke picked HIM up, and already had the car. He said they would have been more angry had they known that it was him that approached Luke and not the other way around.

 

As for Eddie demanding that Rory stay in Arizona I think that would be a huge mistake. Father or not I agree that it isn't Eddie's place to make that decision. Like her not Alice is much closer to a real parent for Rory than Eddie is. I agree that Rory SHOULD stay in Arizona, and that he is better off given his lack of close relationships back home, and the fact that the whole gay thing won't be as big an issue in Arizona, but good for him or not, it has to be something he wants or he's going to Sabotage it. How long could he be resentful and rebellious? Depends on what kinda person he is, anywhere from a day or two to the rest of his life.

 

Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. Rory's been on a binge of self-destructive behaviour since he hit Arizona. Alice the Incomprehensible bears a large part of the responsibility for Rory's behaviour because she disregarded Gina's wishes and sent Rory into a situation where he did not know what was happening or even why Gina might have wanted him with Eddie.

 

Alice has not been a real parent (except in the sense she was there and Eddie, for reasons beyond his control, was not) and with Gina gone there's no-one to moderate Alice's irresponsibility. That irresponsibility does not just run to bad parenting, or refusing to hear any criticism of her conduct, it also runs to things like driving without a license and ignoring speed laws. Alice does not even understand that disregarding Gina's wishes was a bad thing to do and her last telephone call with Rory shows she did not expect Gina to tell Rory in her letter that she'd told Alice she wanted Rory told about Eddie.

 

A whole lot of Rory's rationalisations about Aaron are actually rationalisations about how worthless Rory feels himself to be, mixed in with fears that Rory has no-one to talk to, no-one he can trust and nowhere to live. All that came from somewhere and Arizona is not that somewhere.

 

Rory is in a bad, bad way and has zero, zip, nada insight into his situation. He's a minor. He's not legally (or actually) competent to judge where he should live or what's best for him. About the only defence Eddie's got at this stage is that he does not know about Aaron. Parenting is about the best interests of the child, not being popular.

Edited December 15, 2005 by Alan

[NaperVic]

Ouch Everyone! The rhetoric being used to describe Rory and Eddie is a bit harsh!

 

Re: Eddie, how long has he been a parent? All of two/three weeks in story time? If I was put in charge of say RKNAPP let alone Rory, I'm not sure I'd be parent of the year either.

 

And Rory, he's a kid! I mean, look at all the other kids around here and the way they act...Jules, Slaveboy, Jsmith ...Rory's behaviour is par for the course!

 

Vic the Domaholic

Edited December 15, 2005 by naper_vic

[Andronicus]

What frustrates me about Rory isn't so much his blind self-centeredness, it's his rude, jerkish behavior when he realizes someone he's uncomfortable with is being nice to him.

 

This conscious oafishness has been really ticking me off, too. Rory is the architect of so much of his own misery.

 

Re. feeling he doesn't have anyone to whom to talk: If he weren't hell-bent on seeing TLS he'd have all sorts of helpful people with his best interests at heart at his disposal: Eddie, Jase, Luke & Luke's friends.

 

Shouldn't even Rory have done a simple cost-benefit analysis and realized that he is paying too high a price for the pleasures(?) of Aaron's attention? (Before chapter 18!) Especially when you figure in the consequences when someone inevitably discovers Aaron has been visiting Rory at home. Yeah, he's still a kid, but he is presented as reasonably bright, thoughtful and articulate.

 

I guess a rational, unflawed hero wouldn't be nearly so interesting. Would we be so eager for a new chapter if Luke were the principal character? We need to be allowed to point out that Rory is flawed and often irrational, though, even if he has that in common with many other teens.

 

I wonder if Dom intends to reveal why Rory behaves in ways so detrimental to himself. Is it really all due to poor self-image?

[matthewrmt]

Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. Rory's been on a binge of self-destructive behaviour since he hit Arizona. Alice the Incomprehensible bears a large part of the responsibility for Rory's behaviour because she disregarded Gina's wishes and sent Rory into a situation where he did not know what was happening or even why Gina might have wanted him with Eddie.

 

Alice has not been a real parent (except in the sense she was there and Eddie, for reasons beyond his control, was not) and with Gina gone there's no-one to moderate Alice's irresponsibility. That irresponsibility does not just run to bad parenting, or refusing to hear any criticism of her conduct, it also runs to things like driving without a license and ignoring speed laws. Alice does not even understand that disregarding Gina's wishes was a bad thing to do and her last telephone call with Rory shows she did not expect Gina to tell Rory in her letter that she'd told Alice she wanted Rory told about Eddie.

 

A whole lot of Rory's rationalisations about Aaron are actually rationalisations about how worthless Rory feels himself to be, mixed in with fears that Rory has no-one to talk to, no-one he can trust and nowhere to live. All that came from somewhere and Arizona is not that somewhere.

 

Rory is in a bad, bad way and has zero, zip, nada insight into his situation. He's a minor. He's not legally (or actually) competent to judge where he should live or what's best for him. About the only defence Eddie's got at this stage is that he does not know about Aaron. Parenting is about the best interests of the child, not being popular.

 

Wonderfully stated Alan! I couldn't agree more.

[rknapp]

Ouch Everyone! The rhetoric being used to describe Rory and Eddie is a bit harsh!

 

Re: Eddie, how long has he been a parent? All of two/three weeks in story time? If I was put in charge of say RKNAPP let alone Rory, I'm not sure I'd be parent of the year either.

 

And Rory, he's a kid! I mean, look at all the other kids around here and the way they act...Jules, Slaveboy, Jsmith ...Rory's behaviour is par for the course!

 

Vic the Domaholic

 

*Can't touch this*

 

 

One more thing did anyone notice in the last chapter, when they pull into the driveway Rory begins to open his door before the truck's even stopped. But then when he gets to the front of it he "find's Seth waiting for him". Now how could Seth has stopped the truck, taken it out of gear, put on the park break, turned it off, opened his door and gotten out, walked to the front, and be WAITING for Rory, when Rory was already halfway out the door before Seth started doing any of these things? LOL Seth musta really been scrambling tongue.gif

 

It said that Rory was opening the door while the truck was moving, but Seth managed to stop it completely before he actually stepped out. Leaving his only duties as shifting into 'Park', and getting out. Unless this is an early model Ford with the 'H' 3-speed like a distant cousin of mine has (step son of my aunts daughter, and he's a year older than me, oi), it is most likely an automatic transmission since automatics are better for engine efficiency when towing anything up a steep grade, or anything in general. So it is reasonable to say that Seth would be waiting at his door for Rory since you can park and get out in the time it takes for someone else to close their door and make their way around the relatively large engine bay of most pick-ups.

[AFriendlyFace]

A whole lot of Rory's rationalisations about Aaron are actually rationalisations about how worthless Rory feels himself to be, mixed in with fears that Rory has no-one to talk to, no-one he can trust and nowhere to live. All that came from somewhere and Arizona is not that somewhere.

 

Rory is in a bad, bad way and has zero, zip, nada insight into his situation. He's a minor. He's not legally (or actually) competent to judge where he should live or what's best for him. About the only defence Eddie's got at this stage is that he does not know about Aaron. Parenting is about the best interests of the child, not being popular.

 

Of course it's about the best interests of the child and not about being popular. BUT Rory's 16, not 6. And if he feels trapped, like he has no control or input in his life, he CAN move out and do whatever he wants in less than 2 years. I doubt he'll be making good decisions if he's still in a bad, resentful place in his life.

 

The "because I said so" thing might work for pre-teens, and maybe even early teens, but after that I think it's an insult to their intelligence. Sure you can MAKE them, but at some point good decisions have to come from within. Rory isn't going to just say "well I guess Eddie knows what's best for me", even if he DOES. The normal reaction we could expect anyone to have here is "where the heck do you get off talking about what's best for me when you've known me less than 2 months?"

 

I don't disagree for a minute that Arizona is a better place for Rory, or that Eddie and company could do a better job giving him the support and guidence he needs, I just think it's imperative that Rory recognizes this himself. If you want to pysco-analyize him, he's already shown himself to be weak willed and easily led, especially in his interactions with Aaron, but more broadily in his utter inability to take any initiative whatsoever in most all aspects of his life. Could this be a result of the "do as I say, no room for argument" way he's been treated of late? (which if course further proves he's better off in Arizona) I think it's clearly time Rory learns to make some decisions on his own. If not now, then when?

 

What Eddie needs to do is supply Rory with as much support, love, encouragement, and guidence as he can. He needs to make it clear to Rory that he'll always have a place to go, and he'll always have someone to go to, to talk about things. In this regard I think Eddie's actually doing pretty well. I totally agreed with the way he handled the matter when it came up at the movie theater in the last chapter. I do think he should give Rory some gentle encouragement to stay though. Perhaps by helping him reason it out. He might subtly point out that Rory's emerging friendships here with Luke, Dave etc. are already as good or better than the ones he had back home. He could also mention the fact that here he's already well on his way to being accepted for who he is, whereas at home he's locked in the closet. And yes he could point out that while he and Grandma Alice love each other very much, perhaps they aren't exactly compatible "roommates".

 

Finally I don't think this is really an issue at all anyway. I get the impression Rory's getting closer and closer to making the decision to stay on his own anyway. And I don't see how anyone could argue that it isn't healthier for him to make this decision himself.

 

Take care all,

AFriendlyFace/Kevin

Edited December 15, 2005 by AFriendlyFace

[pep]

I wonder if Rory wants to go back to Alice.

Not once did he contact any of his friends over there, isn't it a bit strange.

HE complains about being bored, but when he 's alone he could call his friends home.

Does he expect to be welcomed back with open arms if he doesn't even makes the effort to call his friends. They can't call him because they don't know where he's staying.

 

Even Eddy suggested to call home, but so far he onle called grandma Alice to whinen and complain.

 

This to me is rather strange, specially if he expects to go home in a few weeks.

 

Peter