[DomLuka] DD 25

[Chris Muldoon]

Okay, so I think we've been presuming that Rory is the guy that Luke is crushing on. I sort of just took this for the truth the past couple times I've posted. Now, I really don't know for sure. Maybe it is Dave. That seems more probable right now. Especially when I think about how Luke acted once they were at the bowling alley. And, when Luke got that call from Dave, he practically ran out of the door.

 

And truthfully, guys, I don't really see how Luke has acted outwardly jealous towards Seth or Rory. He's even done as much as to egg the two on. "Just enjoying the view." He's trying to bring Seth and Rory together, the more I think about it. I'm really putting my foot in by mouth, but I think Dave might be who Luke is after.

 

I never really gave the whole Dave thing any serious thought, but I'm really starting to think Luke and Angela might talk about it sometimes. Luke might just be mildly upset that Seth and Angela are not, in fact, a couple. It would make things less complicated if Dave knew Angela was taken.

 

Dom's written about a gay character that have huge crush on their straight best friend (Owen & Nicky), so this isn't too far out there. However, Owen found Aiden -- who's Luke going to find?

 

When I read this I had to stop and give it some thought. I'm a strong supporter of Rory/Luke, so I wondered if maybe I wasn't seeing Luke's interest in Dave because I didn't want to see it. That theory is perfectly plausable, but there was one line that kept me from thinking of it as a strong possibility.

 

Luke said, "There

[Philistine]

Luke said, "There

Edited January 10, 2006 by Philistine

[carmichael]

Wow -- I think you're right.

 

Discovering that Luke might not be as into Rory as we've all been assuming is really shocking.

 

Depressing, even.

 

I guess whoever doesn't like Luke would have to be an idiot -- or straight.

 

[Alan]

all my points are in the quote. just pointing out (what i perceive as) slight flaws in your logic there.

 

The problem with your theory is that Luke has no reason not to tell Rory if it's Dave. And that's leaving aside that it involves Luke, who stands for honesty in the story, getting into a fairly spectacular level of dishonesty towards Dave.

 

The only textual evidence for Luke/Dave is that there's no textual evidence for Luke/Dave and therefore it must be so. I could use the same process and construct an equally convincing argument for Luke/Alice or Luke/Chey. The same process gave us Luke/Seth during the 48 hours between Chapter 20 and Chapter 21.

[carmichael]

The problem with your theory is that Luke has no reason not to tell Rory if it's Dave. And that's leaving aside that it involves Luke, who stands for honesty in the story, getting into a fairly spectacular level of dishonesty towards Dave.

 

The only textual evidence for Luke/Dave is that there's no textual evidence for Luke/Dave and therefore it must be so. I could use the same process and construct an equally convincing argument for Luke/Alice or Luke/Chey. The same process gave us Luke/Seth during the 48 hours between Chapter 20 and Chapter 21.

 

 

Sure he does. He's probably a little embarrassed. And since when is ANYONE comfortable telling someone that they have a huge crush on their straight best friend? He knew Dave would never be interested, so why let Rory in on this? He probably slipped up when he initially told him about his mystery crush, but that was just to assure Rory that he didn't like Seth. How many times do I have to say it? Luke is not perfect. Can he be dishonest? Hell yes. Fairly spectacular level of dishonesty? This isn't some extraordinary secret that can somehow harm Dave if Dave never finds out and Luke works it out on his own ... and I don't think the issue is Luke having to decide whether or not "telling Dave the truth" is right or wrong. He's not some Angel-like apparition that will always do the right thing. He's a teenager, for Christ's sake. I honestly see nothing strange about Luke trying to keep his crush a secret, whether it's Rory or Dave.

 

The only legitimate textual evidence we have for a Luke/Rory is the fact that Luke already told Rory that he wasn't interested in him. Rory, being the narrator, can perceive whatever he likes -- and that perception is already being butchered by us, the reader, in our own misconstruing of the "textual evidence."

 

I think we can all give Dom a little more credit than that. Is it possible that he's portraying this story in a way that could lead different readers to believe completely two different storylines? I think so, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't go the way I was planning.

 

That being said, no matter how badly I want Luke and Rory to end up together, I just don't see it happening.

[NickolasJames8]

Me either

[NaperVic]

Sure he does. He's probably a little embarrassed.

Luke? Embarassed? This is the guy who kissed Dave on the cheek and ran around Rick's birthday party in his Birthday suit.

That being said, no matter how badly I want Luke and Rory to end up together, I just don't see it happening.

 

You know we love you Carmichael(Alan), but your track record on predictions....

 

Anyways, let's see some last minute predictions. Honest predictions.

 

So, do you think Rory is going to call Seth? I would say, probably yes. Are he and Luke going to have an H2H (heart to heart)? I really don't think Luke's true feelings are going to come out this chapter, but you never know.

 

Do you think Rory will invite Luke to come with him? Or will Luke have other plans? Luke's invited Rory to come with almost everytime he goes out and Rory has the opportunity to come; I'd imagine Rory would do that same.

 

So, bowling eh? That sounds romantic. What does everyone think will happen tonight? And, the Million Dollar Question: will Aaron be there? I'm going to say, yes, and there may or may not be a confrontation. I just can't tell.

 

I'd hate to start having to pull all your other quotes

 

 

 

 

All these extra little plot twists are just diversionary tactics by Dom to throw of the weak of heart.

 

I'm sure if we had scrutinized TLW the way we are doing DD, many of these same Domaholic's who are predicting Seth and Rory would have thought that Aiden would have broken up with Owen to Date Reilly Chesley.

 

Keep the Faith!!! Luke and Rory!!! So it was written in Chapter 1, so it will be at 'The End'.

 

Skips away gayly & Take Care®,

 

Vic

 

P.S. - Feel the love carmichael!

[manicyaoi]

*whines*

all this talk about luke/rory and dave/luke and seth/rory and is luke jealous and who does luke like....

*explodes into a million billion tiny little pieces*

all shall be revealed in time. *evil grin*

 

i've been thinking, though...if dom wants to really shake us up, he should make jase and eddie break up...but i don't think that will happen. eddie is very rory-like (gee, i wonder why...). if jase can put up with an adult form of rory, he can put up with anything. he could probably even survive the apocalypse! *giggles insanely*

 

I WANT CHAPTER 26!!!

 

*pouts*

[rknapp]

The problem with your theory is that Luke has no reason not to tell Rory if it's Dave. And that's leaving aside that it involves Luke, who stands for honesty in the story, getting into a fairly spectacular level of dishonesty towards Dave.

 

The only textual evidence for Luke/Dave is that there's no textual evidence for Luke/Dave and therefore it must be so. I could use the same process and construct an equally convincing argument for Luke/Alice or Luke/Chey. The same process gave us Luke/Seth during the 48 hours between Chapter 20 and Chapter 21.

 

Uh-huh, and just what do we know about Luke's habits? Sure, he hated lying to Rory about his sexuality, but he did that for Eddie. Now it is his pride that is at stake, and he isn't any less human for wanting to protect that in any way that he can, which includes keeping it a secret (somewhat). Love at first (or second) sight is uncommon, so I can't see the justification for Luke to like Rory since they met only two months ago. He's known Dave for years, which gives plenty of time to have a crush. That isn't to say crushes can't happen in an instant... when I was junior in high school I was a slut and had crushes on five guys in one semester. One of them I became sorta friends with and the crush went away when he was no longer just a pretty face at the lunch table six feet to my right. In Luke's bitching about Dave and saying that his mystery crush is something he has to get over, I would say that he has it bad, and that could possibly be for Dave, or it could be for Rory (although passion-less kisses and bulges rubbing asses are no indication of love interest). Why could it be for Dave? When you got it bad, then it must have been brewing. In Rory's case with Aaron it wasn't brewing, but he is quickly gaining ground in recovering. Luke is taking a long time. So the textual evidence is probably pre-Rory, if there even is any. We would need to get into Luke's head instead of Rory's to find said evidence.

 

If the secret got out, then he might lose Dave, and he doesn't want that, so he has every reason and right to hide it until he can conquer it.

[Alan]

Sure he does. He's probably a little embarrassed. And since when is ANYONE comfortable telling someone that they have a huge crush on their straight best friend? He knew Dave would never be interested, so why let Rory in on this? He probably slipped up when he initially told him about his mystery crush, but that was just to assure Rory that he didn't like Seth. How many times do I have to say it? Luke is not perfect. Can he be dishonest? Hell yes. Fairly spectacular level of dishonesty? This isn't some extraordinary secret that can somehow harm Dave if Dave never finds out and Luke works it out on his own ... and I don't think the issue is Luke having to decide whether or not "telling Dave the truth" is right or wrong. He's not some Angel-like apparition that will always do the right thing. He's a teenager, for Christ's sake. I honestly see nothing strange about Luke trying to keep his crush a secret, whether it's Rory or Dave.

 

Dishonesty almost destroyed the friendship between Rory and Luke. Why would Luke now imperil that friendship by concealing his secret passion for Dave? Embarrassment is not a big enough motive to risk a friendship, nor is it immediately obvious why crushing on Dave would even be embarrassing to Luke.

 

The only legitimate textual evidence we have for a Luke/Rory is the fact that Luke already told Rory that he wasn't interested in him. Rory, being the narrator, can perceive whatever he likes -- and that perception is already being butchered by us, the reader, in our own misconstruing of the "textual evidence."

 

Sorry, but that is simply untrue. In almsot every chapter, especially since breaking up with Aaron, Rory talks about his physical attraction to Luke and how Luke is interested in someone else. Luke has been functioning as Rory's boyfriend, in some sense, since before Rory broke up with Aaron. It was Luke, not Aaron, who provided the emotional comfort after sex. Luke's been with Aaron and knows what goes on. I'm not saying that Luke and Rory are set in stone.

 

All I'm saying is that ascribing everything that happens to a secret passion for Dave is just not supported by the text. Luke is not a convincing liar and almost broke the Vow of Silence twice (without meaning to) before Gina's letter blew it apart. He wanted to tell Rory, even though he did not know Rory is also gay. I don't see any textual evidence for Luke successfully concealing a secret passion from Rory.

Edited January 11, 2006 by Alan

[carmichael]

hahahaha -- oh, Vic. You know very well that when I thought Rory was going to call Seth I meant that he was going to end up going bowling that night, with Seth. And my prediction about Aaron popping up was a shot in the dark. Really, you should have known better ( ).

 

 

Trying to get you to believe that Rory might not end up with Luke is like when Galileo tried to prove that the earth revolves around the sun -- I know it's not possible to change your mind. And I will never, ever believe that Luke can be completely and utterly comfortable about telling either Rory or Dave that he's madly in love with them. He's smart enough to think things through. And I don't think we should characterize him as simple as a caveman, running around naked (although, thanks for reminding me ... I'll need to go back and read that ), kissing whomever he happens to like at that moment. His personality and emotions have to run a little deeper than that. And if he's never embarrassed, then why hasn't told Rory that he's the one? Maybe he's afraid of rejection -- okay, but then maybe that's why he hasn't told Rory about how he likes Dave.

 

 

hahahaha -- and I don't feel like I should be ashamed of not predicting 100% correctly. What would be the fun in that? If more people would make predictions, I think it would be fun to go back and see who was right, and when.

 

But, no -- really ... Luke and Grandma Alice really seem like they're meant to me ...

[rknapp]

Dishonesty almost destroyed the friendship between Rory and Luke. Why would Luke now imperil that friendship by concealing his secret passion for Dave? Embarrassment is not a big enough motive to risk a friendship, nor is it immediately obvious why crushing on Dave would even be embarrassing to Luke.

Sorry, but that is simply untrue. In almsot every chapter, especially since breaking up with Aaron, Rory talks about his physical attraction to Luke and how Luke is interested in someone else. Luke has been functioning as Rory's boyfriend, in some sense, since before Rory broke up with Aaron. It was Luke, not Aaron, who provided the emotional comfort after sex. Luke's been with Aaron and knows what goes on. I'm not saying that Luke and Rory are set in stone.

 

All I'm saying is that ascribing everything that happens to a secret passion for Dave is just not supported by the text. Luke is not a convincing liar and almost broke the Vow of Silence twice (without meaning to) before Gina's letter blew it apart. He wanted to tell Rory, even though he did not know Rory is also gay. I don't see any textual evidence for Luke successfully concealing a secret passion from Rory.

 

 

Of course there isn't any textual evidence, there hasn't been any chance for it to occur. We're in Rory's head, not Luke's, and since Rory spends a lot of his time without Luke, there wont be any textual evidence. Any evidence that there is, is very subtle, like Luke bitching about Dave being a semi-stalker with Angela, and Luke running to Dave at the end of the night, without Rory. There could be a hundred reasons for him to do that, but couldn't a need to be around him after all be one?

[Philistine]

The problem with your theory is that Luke has no reason not to tell Rory if it's Dave. And that's leaving aside that it involves Luke, who stands for honesty in the story, getting into a fairly spectacular level of dishonesty towards Dave.

 

The only textual evidence for Luke/Dave is that there's no textual evidence for Luke/Dave and therefore it must be so. I could use the same process and construct an equally convincing argument for Luke/Alice or Luke/Chey. The same process gave us Luke/Seth during the 48 hours between Chapter 20 and Chapter 21.

 

(other post)

 

Dishonesty almost destroyed the friendship between Rory and Luke. Why would Luke now imperil that friendship by concealing his secret passion for Dave? Embarrassment is not a big enough motive to risk a friendship, nor is it immediately obvious why crushing on Dave would even be embarrassing to Luke.

 

what theory? i didn't present anything. i was just poking holes in someone else's logic.

 

and as far as not sharing who you have a crush on...if any friend of mine would terminate a friendship with me based on my not immediately sharing any and all information about who i've had a crush on and when, that friendship would be over. it's an unrealistic expectation to say the least. who he has feelings for is his business alone. rory had the right to be mad about them concealing their sexual orientations and relationships with each other. yes. but this isn't dishonesty. luke admitted he liked someone, and it's his right not to have to share anything beyond that. why would not sharing endanger their friendship? and have you ever had a crush on a friend? cuz in my experiences, it's pretty embarrassing. and (if he does like dave, which i'm not saying is definitely so) maybe he doesn't want to seem like the pathetic gay boy who's obsessed with a straight guy he can't have.

Edited January 11, 2006 by Philistine

[LittleBuddhaTW]

I think this "discussion" shows just how talented Dom is as an author ... there are so many little clues leading to so many possible conclusions, and I doubt that that's an accident. Good authors write and revise ad nauseum, very little makes it into a final draft that's not "on purpose." The good thing is, however, that eventually we'll get an answer ... unlike the Chinese novel "Dream of the Red Chamber" that I do my research on, where the last third of the novel was never circulated ... so all we can do is guess as to what happened based on textual evidence and some very sparse commentary left in the margins of the first two thirds of some early manuscripts of the book by one (or more) of the author's relatives who had seen the whole book (although the clues are vague at best). No one will ever know what really happened in its entirety, and it's *very* frustrating. So, let's all be thankful that this one will be finished!!!

[Ann]

Dishonesty almost destroyed the friendship between Rory and Luke. Why would Luke now imperil that friendship by concealing his secret passion for Dave?

 

Why would Luke be jeopardizing his friendship with Rory just for withholding his crush? It

[carmichael]

Why would Luke be jeopardizing his friendship with Rory just for withholding his crush? It

[NickolasJames8]

But, no -- really ... Luke and Grandma Alice really seem like they're meant to me ...

I agree 100 % :pickaxe:

[DavyReader]

We're in Rory's head, not Luke's,...

And I'm under the impression that Rory is inclined to withhold his feelings from the user, conceding only what he has said or done. It's gotten increasingly hard to buy his I-don't-know-how-I-got-there and I-don't-understand-why-I stories. As far as I remember, he has never mentioned considering Luke as an option. I'm sure he is not so naive that this didn't ever come to his mind... If it did, he might have temporarily come to the conclusion that entering into a relationship with Luke would have been very different from fooling around with Aaron or Seth. But the latter sentence is just speculating. Analyzing the narrator's perspective would surely be a task that is interesting enough, as someboy remarked before.

[rknapp]

And I'm under the impression that Rory is inclined to withhold his feelings from the user, conceding only what he has said or done. It's gotten increasingly hard to buy his I-don't-know-how-I-got-there and I-don't-understand-why-I stories. As far as I remember, he has never mentioned considering Luke as an option. I'm sure he is not so naive that this didn't ever come to his mind... If it did, he might have temporarily come to the conclusion that entering into a relationship with Luke would have been very different from fooling around with Aaron or Seth. But the latter sentence is just speculating. Analyzing the narrator's perspective would surely be a task that is interesting enough, as someboy remarked before.

 

Exactly, Rory possibly IS witholding information. I see and do things everyday and don't think about. Certainly something such as the persons interests might surface faster than say, opening a door, but even I shut out love interests, and I am sure that I am not alone. If we were in Luke's head then MAYBE we would get some valuable insight into his interests, but at the same time that is not a certainty. The textual evidence people are looking for isn't, and might never be there. In that case when it DOES surface it will be a surprise and an "explosion" so to speak. Luke said he hasn't been dealing with some things, which is a good indicator of said "explosion" to occur, and somehow I think it might rear it's proverbial ugly head in the coming chapters (possibly before 30, but no one can predict that, since Dom said DD would be longer than TLW).

[Tim1001]

proverbial ugly head

 

 

????? its LUKE and (apparently) hot Rory, no ugly can be reared. but im all for the confrontation between the two

[tarantio]

Guys..DD26 is out!

 

Cheers