IRL story of a marine that fell in love with one of America's wors

[Fishwings]

Just in time for the end of Halloween. This is both horrifying and absolutely fascinating. Wow @ sociopaths.

 

And yes, it's Thought Catalog, though this article is definitely not a miss.

 

The title is:

 

"I Met A Convicted Serial Killer, And He Made Me Feel More Loved Than Anyone Else In My Life"

 

http://thoughtcatalog.com/jay-roberts/2013/10/i-met-a-convicted-serial-killer/

[Former Member]

OO!  That gave me CHILLS

[Ieshwar]

This was definitely strange. Sometimes, life is indeed weirder than fiction...

 

Thanks for sharing, Fishy. 

[Sasha Distan]

now i am freaked out. on the other hand, cute drivers license photo. looks an awful lot like a friend of mine which is weird.

[methodwriter85]

      We like to think of serial killers as gruff, crazy, wild-eyed ugly people running around with axes, but quite often they're charming, attractive people. Which explains the the myriad of emotions. It's something so horrific, but at the same time, because Jay Roberts wasn't actually attacked(although I'm sure he was drugged- someone suggested that it was benzos), it was a pleasant memory on a pleasant afternoon from over 30 years ago. The knowledge that he could have very well ended up horrifically murdered(seriously, read about Randy Kraft-  really chilling stuff) really contrasts with that emotion.

 

      It was interesting from a time period and cultural standpoint as well- as someone who grew up in the 1990's when it was constantly drilled in our heads that you could be kidnapped and end up on a milk carton, the thought that people had a habit of hitchhiking and accepting rides from strangers in the 1970's and 1980's just seems so foreign to me. And from what I understand, this case didn't gain much traction because the victims were thought of as dead queer runaways and the like- even though they were often straight.

      And the other thing it made me think about was how much we prize good-looking, masculine military straight guys. They're as much of a fantasy for gay men as the college frat boy jock. Think about how many stories have been written with the theme of seducing that straight military guy with beer and the like. We're essentially reading that story here- reading the p.o.v. of a straight guy getting seduced with very little protestation on his part, only the intentions of that seduction were entirely different from the Nifty stories. Again, very disturbing but still alluring. It made me think that the reason why Randy Kraft targeted these guys was because they were venerated, by himself and by the gay community at large. They weren't vulnerable, small women or children- they were grown men trained to be killers. Which is probably why they were the ultimate prize to him- Kraft caught these invincible young men and made them vulnerable.

      It just leaves you with the same question though- why didn't he kill the author of the article? Was there a connection and he had just a tiny moment of empathy? Or is it simply, as one comment said, Jay Roberts left before he passed out? In one of the comments, the author mentioned that he soon passed out when he got back to base, which strongly points to the idea that he got drugged.

        I think the author does such a great job of conveying all of these conflicting emotions and questions that this experience gave him. Randy Kraft made the author feel beautiful and special that one day over 33 years ago, and now he's realizing that it was a ploy, and he could have very well ended up dumped on the side of a California freeway.

Edited November 3, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Fishwings]

      We like to think of serial killers as gruff, crazy, wild-eyed ugly people running around with axes, but quite often they're charming, attractive people.

 

Yeah. 

 

I just find it crazy how sociopaths can manipulate someone's emotions like this and how easy they pass off as being ordinary so to speak.

[methodwriter85]

    You just never know sometimes. When I was 15, I used to talk to men online. Around June of 2001, I had plans to meet up with two men in their 30's at different times. After the first meeting wound up freaking me out after we had a sexual encounter, I cancelled the second meeting. The second meeting, we were supposed to go to a motel. I was a 15-year old kid, who was going to meet a 30-something stranger in a motel. I am so glad that I cancelled it- maybe nothing would have happened and it would have been a good time, or I could've ended up on a milk carton. You really just never know whenever you choose to go off with people you don't know to a private place.

 

   Although the good thing is that we do have instincts that gnaw at this. Reading Jay Roberts's account, I really think that something deep down was telling him to go, and it had nothing to do with not wanting to do something gay. Even though from all appearances to Jay, he was having a good time and even though Jay was reluctant to leave, something told him to get on his bike and leave. That probably saved his life.

[Fishwings]

    You just never know sometimes. When I was 15, I used to talk to men online. Around June of 2001, I had plans to meet up with two men in their 30's at different times. After the first meeting wound up freaking me out after we had a sexual encounter, I cancelled the second meeting. The second meeting, we were supposed to go to a motel. I was a 15-year old kid, who was going to meet a 30-something stranger in a motel. I am so glad that I cancelled it- maybe nothing would have happened and it would have been a good time, or I could've ended up on a milk carton. You really just never know whenever you choose to go off with people you don't know to a private place.

 

   Although the good thing is that we do have instincts that gnaw at this. Reading Jay Roberts's account, I really think that something deep down was telling him to go, and it had nothing to do with not wanting to do something gay. Even though from all appearances to Jay, he was having a good time and even though Jay was reluctant to leave, something told him to get on his bike and leave. That probably saved his life.

 

That's really scary. I'm glad you cancelled the meeting. I used to meet guys through sketch means too out of curiosity but I quickly grew out of that after some shitty experiences. Now when my friends go off with people they don't know well I always tell them to text me where they're going to be and text me after they finish just to be safe.

 

I find that people (or men at least) are generally by default pretty trusting when it comes to things like this, and since you'd probably never be able to identify a sociopath until he stabs you in the face... I think it's just best to avoid going off with strangers in general LOL.

[Gene Splicer PHD]

An interesting discussion about the article, with Jay Roberts participating - his nick on the site is "robatsu" - over on metafilter: https://www.metafilter.com/133300/Everyone-wants-to-believe-that-they-are-special

[methodwriter85]

That's really scary. I'm glad you cancelled the meeting. I used to meet guys through sketch means too out of curiosity but I quickly grew out of that after some shitty experiences. Now when my friends go off with people they don't know well I always tell them to text me where they're going to be and text me after they finish just to be safe.

 

I find that people (or men at least) are generally by default pretty trusting when it comes to things like this, and since you'd probably never be able to identify a sociopath until he stabs you in the face... I think it's just best to avoid going off with strangers in general LOL.

 

     When I was about 13-14 years old, I read a book called The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker. It was published in 1997 and was popular during the late 90's, so it was a bit before your time. The book outlines warning signals that people who were attacked by violent people saw but ignored.

 

     Intuition is a good thing- what struck me about the article was that Jay Roberts had this realization that as much as he wanted to stay, as much as he wanted to go back and hang out more with the guy that was making him feel good, something inside was telling him to get on his bike and leave.

 

     I've had that experience two times- the first being that I knew I couldn't go through with meeting a guy at a motel room that I didn't know, and the second when I was running through the woods during Cross-Country practice and this group of guys wanted me to stop and talk to them about our mutual friend, Val. I'm a very friendly person and they were awfully insistent that I talk to them, but I just kept running instead because something didn't feel right and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I mentioned the incident to Val and she said to the effect of, "Good thing you didn't stop. They are NOT good guys."

Edited November 4, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Zombie]

I just find it crazy how sociopaths can manipulate someone's emotions like this and how easy they pass off as being ordinary so to speak.

 

Ah, but manipulation and control are key attributes of sociopaths, or psychopaths as they're generally termed in the UK. Another key attribute is charm and, as we all know, charm can be devastatingly effective - it's a door-opener to all sorts of opportunities to manipulate, control and exploit. And the big company corporate structure is the perfect environment for psychopaths/sociopaths. You will almost certainly know some.

 

Robert Hare has done a lot of well-publicised work on the prevalence of such people in companies and in the general population as well as "tests" that can help you spot them. They are not generally axe-wielding serial killers BUT given the right circumstances they will kill much more readily because they don't have the psychological controls that someone with a well-adjusted personality has, and which prevent us all killing each other

 

http://www.hare.org/

[Ashi]

I read the Jay Roberts story the day Luc Rosen posted it here....  I didn't finish it, though it's a very griping story.  It bothers me a lot, but I didn't know how to properly make a response in here....

 

I just want to say, as gay men, we're a lot more vulnerable to people like Randy Kraft.  Partly due to our "secret" and partly because we want to be loved, and yet the society denied us of it, so we tend to go for desperate measures.  And people like Kraft can use that to manipulate gay people very easily. 

 

We have many enemies:  STDs (especially if one engaged in rear penetration), perverts like Kraft, religious fanatics, our inner insecurity.  I mean, who doesn't want to be loved?  I do, but I still have to be careful not to be taken advantage of, not to be blackmailed, and now after reading the story, I guess I have to be careful not to be dismembered....

 

The tragedy can only end when society finally accepts the fact we need to be loved, too.  When our love courtship can go more open in broad daylight, our own personal safety will improve.

[methodwriter85]

    Gay men are more vulnerable to serial killers because you're more likely to try and hook up and go off with complete and total strangers than you would be if you were a straight man meeting women. That's just the nature of the fact that you're a very small minority.

 

    Although it seems like Randy Kraft, by the late 1970's, seemed to target mostly just Marines that were straight- like he got out his first kills with easy gay bar targets, and then moved on to prey that were harder to bag- the challenge of getting straight guys to come back to a hotel room with him.

[JamesSavik]

When I was a kid, Dean Corll aka "the Candyman" was murdering his way through the blue-collar suburbs of Houston.

 

He had a pair of kids that he used like bird dogs to lure others to him.

 

When this hit the news in the mid seventies, it scared the shit out of me and a lot of my friends.

 

What really scared me was peoples attitudes about it. I overheard some one say- they ought to give him a medal for killing all those faggits.

 

Others couldn't get too worked up over it because the homeo-erotic natures of the killings.

 

I remember that a religious figure tried to blame it all on "lovers spats" until the bodies were found.

 

We were shocked because things like this just didn't happen in the South.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Corll

 

Dean Coryl during his Army days. No pictures exist of him in his 30s during the long murder spree.

 

Coryl's "bird dogs"

 

Coryll was killed by his co-conspirator Henley because the boys saw that he was mentally losing it.

 

His co-conspirators are doing life in prison for their parts in the murders.

 

Nobody really knows how many young men were murdered by Coryl. The estimate is 30 but other possible victims are still being found. The last confirmed victim was found in 2005.

 

Law enforcement uses profilers to catch serial killers. Serial killers are pretty good profilers in their own right because they seem to instinctively know who to victimize and manipulate.

Edited November 6, 2013 by jamessavik

[methodwriter85]

    James, I got into a True Crime kick over Halloween weekend because of the article, and read about the "Candy Man" case. There's a documentary on YouTube. The chilling thing about the case was that they often lured people they knew- most of the victims weren't random strangers. They were people that that his bird dogs had been friends with and had grown up with.

 

    The basic impression I got was the public didn't care as much because these were blue-collar kids, and at the time, it was much easier to just dismiss them as teenage boys who had run away because they didn't come "from good families."

 

    Going back to the Randy Kraft case, it's pretty incredible that the guy killed at least 50 people, but it's not that well-known of a case- certainly not to the level of Dahmer. I wonder if that's because his targets were military guys who were probably transient and didn't have roots in the area, so it felt like less of and "this is our town and our people" kind of case like Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

    Learning about this made me really glad that there's more awareness now about safety...although that's not always a given. One time I picked up a guy who paid me twenty dollars to give him a ride to his friends house. Probably not the smartest thing I've ever done, but he didn't really give me a bad vibe.

Edited November 6, 2013 by methodwriter85