'Gay' is a sexuality not a culture...

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Gay men who fetishize feminine men.

Gay men who reject feminine men.

Gay men and women who fetishize (insert fetishized race here)

Gay men who reject the company of gay women, regardless of the scene

Gay women who reject the company of gay men, regardless of the scene

Gay men and women who reject the company of transgendered people

Bi men and women who reject the company of gay men and women

Bi men and women who reject the company of straight men and women

Gay men and women who think it's perfectly fine to try to "turn" straight men and women

Straight men and women who think it's perfectly fine to try to "turn" gay men and women

 

Misogyny in gay culture: Yes, it exists and it sucks.

Misandry in gay culture: Yes, it exists and it sucks.

 

Gay culture? Does it exist? Sure. Surround yourself with gay people - it's easy to do, just make all your friends at (insert gay community hangout here).

 

You'll meet people just like you, you'll meet people that share your mindset, and you'll meet people that are just as perfect as you think you are - as long as

- they meet a specific body type

- they be of a specific color

- they have a specific education level

- they be of a specific age.

 

If you're not meeting the criteria, you're out! It's like high school. Want proof? Look at grindr (twinky young types), Scruff (bear types), etc. etc. etc. and on and on it goes.

 

You'll also meet some great people who share your worldview, who share your background, who are safe to be around. They won't challenge your thinking, they won't raise a ruckus, but I bet they play some cards or want to go to a movie or whatever. Just don't challenge those worldviews or those judgments - or you're out! Just like high school.

 

Back when the gay bar was the place to hang out - you had your twink bar, you had your leather bar, you had your dyke bar, you had your black bar, you had your (insert specifically targeted audience here). Meet the new audience, folks - online is the same as offline. The gay "culture" has moved from the gay bar to the online forum, and it's the same.damn.thing.all.over.again.

 

Nothing about this discussion, nothing, is new.

 

"Let's talk about "gay" culture!" "No, I'd rather talk about queer culture." "I hate the word 'queer'". "Well, I like it".

 

Y'all can't even decide on synonyms. Let alone, as has been pointed out, the differences in being gay in different countries, and the resultant cultural differences in THAT conversation.

 

I spent some time, early in my out life, trying to be an "activist". What a joke. We were fighting for three things: more $$ for AIDS treatment, equal housing in a specific city, and trying to drum up support for a candidate for a local office. We were so focused we couldn't even figure out a platform:

- The lesbians hated the AIDS fundraising because it took away from their pet project, the equal housing thing.

- Gay men didn't like the equal housing thing because the lesbians had taken it over.

- The candidate couldn't even get anyone to hand him a microphone.

 

So the group broke into factions within the organization - all arguing amongst themselves and not even talking to the larger group, but within their factions - so vehemently about the right way to go about whatever it was they were doing, that it turned into three separate circlejerks. The organization's leadership resigned and was replaced 4 separate times...in six months.Which is about the time I gave up and went to the bar..to meet up with some 18-24 year old blondie with a big dick, because that's what I was supposed to do. And that's why labels suck - they put you in a box, where people who look in the box have specific expectations of you - how you look, how you act, who you hang with, where you go. If you step out of the box, well, you're out! Go away, you're weird. I was supposed to go hookup with some idiot, because that's the box I was in. It took awhile, but I got rid of the boxes.

 

"Gay culture" is so fragmented, so argumentative and circlejerky. There's culture clash from outside the gay culture because everyone has another culture to belong to. 

 

Yes, being "gay" is a sexuality. It's also a culture.

 

And here, in the US (and on this very message board), it shows a very privileged, very "elitist" attitude toward others who aren't just like us.

 

Welcome to being human, as shitty as it is sometimes. Which is why I find that as I age, I don't care about the "gay" thing anymore. I'd rather meet people who share activities (like cards, and movies and whatnot), and not labels. 

 

Lately, I've gotten interested in local bands, through a gay friend of mine. We go to bars, and watch bands play. He knows a lot of the bandmembers, which is fun. We very, very rarely even mention being gay. It's just not important. And a lot less frustrating than being around a bunch of picky, elitist weirdos who think their shit doesn't stink.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Gene Splicer PHD

[Thorn Wilde]

For the UK members, I wonder if "Fag" is derogatory or just a cigarette in majority context (that divided meaning in UK English and American English is weird). Still, it would be fun for a while to hear more people say, "can I bum a fag?" and the reply is, "Yes, you can."

 

I use the word fag exclusively to mean cigarettes, and a lot of my characters smoke, so there are a lot of fags going around.

 

There's some joke that I think an English comedian or musician or something told, where he said it was weird to perform in California because 'You ask for a fag, half the crowd comes up on stage.'

[Sasha Distan]

Language is different with different regions and people. Queer is used for a all encompassing title, but it is also in certain context just a word for strange/not ordinary. Nothing wrong with Queer.

 

Another more interesting derogatory word that I personally find the most fun is Fag.

 

For the UK members, I wonder if "Fag" is derogatory or just a cigarette in majority context (that divided meaning in UK English and American English is weird). Still, it would be fun for a while to hear more people say, "can I bum a fag?" and the reply is, "Yes, you can."

 

Yes. People still say this, especially in London

[W_L]

What do South African or Australians think about the word "Fag"? I've seen Canadians use it in the American derogatory manner, but I wonder if still holds the old meaning in other english speaking country as Cigarette?

[Thorn Wilde]

Well, here's what Wiktionary has to say:

 

 

Etymology 1

 

Probably from fag end (“remnant”), from Middle English fagge (“flap”)

 

Noun

fag (plural fags)

1. (US, technical) In textile inspections, a rough or coarse defect in the woven fabric.
2. (US, technical) A photovoltaic cell that is no longer in use.
3. (UK, Ireland, colloquial, dated in US and Canada) A cigarette. 
4. (UK, obsolete, colloquial) The worst part or end of a thing. 

Synonyms

• (cigarette): ciggy (Australia), smoke, (Cockney rhyming slang) oily rag

 

Etymology 2

 

Probably alteration of flag (“droop, tire”)

 

Noun

fag (plural fags)

1. (UK, colloquial) A chore; an arduous and tiresome task.
2. (UK, archaic, colloquial) In many British boarding schools, a younger student acting as a servant for senior students.  

Verb

fag (third-person singular simple present fags, present participle fagging, simple past and past participle fagged)

1. (transitive, colloquial, used mainly in passive form) To make exhausted, tired out.
2. (intransitive, colloquial) To droop; to tire.
3. (UK, archaic, colloquial) For a younger student to act as a servant for senior students in many British boarding schools.

 

Etymology 3

 

From faggot.

 

Noun

fag (plural fags)

1. (vulgar, offensive) A homosexual person.
   1. (colloquial, disparaging) In particular, a conspicuously non-straight-acting homosexual male.
2. (US, vulgar, offensive) An annoying person. Why did you do that, you fag?

 

 

As you see, the word fag as in cigarette has a completely different etymological root to the word fag as in homosexual.

 

Wiktionary has the following to say about the word faggot:

 

Etymology

From Middle English, from Old French fagot (“bundle of sticks”), from Old Italian fagotto, diminutive of Vulgar Latin *facus, from Latin fascis (“bundle of wood”). See also fag.

Noun

faggot (plural faggots)

1. (rare, dated in US) A burning or smouldering piece of firewood.
2. (chiefly UK) A bundle of sticks tied together. (Some sources specify that a faggot is tied with two bands or withes, whereas a bavin is tied with just one.) 
3. (obsolete) Burdensome baggage.
4. (UK, Ireland, colloquial, pejorative, obsolete) A shrewish woman. 
5. (offensive, vulgar, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) A gay person, particularly a man. Is it true that she's a faggot?
6. (offensive, vulgar, US) An annoying or inconsiderate person.

 

It also claims that the word faggot can be used to mean the end of a cigarette, though I haven't personally ever heard it used that way. Perhaps a Brit can enlighten us on its use. Additionally, in the UK there's a sort of pork meatball called a faggot. 

 

The word faggot is not to be confused with the word fagott, which is the name of the musical instrument in English known as bassoon in several European languages. 

[asamvav111]

Gay men who fetishize feminine men.

Gay men who reject feminine men.

Gay men and women who fetishize (insert fetishized race here)

Gay men who reject the company of gay women, regardless of the scene

Gay women who reject the company of gay men, regardless of the scene

Gay men and women who reject the company of transgendered people

Bi men and women who reject the company of gay men and women

Bi men and women who reject the company of straight men and women

Gay men and women who think it's perfectly fine to try to "turn" straight men and women

Straight men and women who think it's perfectly fine to try to "turn" gay men and women

 

Misogyny in gay culture: Yes, it exists and it sucks.

Misandry in gay culture: Yes, it exists and it sucks.

 

Gay culture? Does it exist? Sure. Surround yourself with gay people - it's easy to do, just make all your friends at (insert gay community hangout here).

 

You'll meet people just like you, you'll meet people that share your mindset, and you'll meet people that are just as perfect as you think you are - as long as

- they meet a specific body type

- they be of a specific color

- they have a specific education level

- they be of a specific age.

 

If you're not meeting the criteria, you're out! It's like high school. Want proof? Look at grindr (twinky young types), Scruff (bear types), etc. etc. etc. and on and on it goes.

 

You'll also meet some great people who share your worldview, who share your background, who are safe to be around. They won't challenge your thinking, they won't raise a ruckus, but I bet they play some cards or want to go to a movie or whatever. Just don't challenge those worldviews or those judgments - or you're out! Just like high school.

 

Back when the gay bar was the place to hang out - you had your twink bar, you had your leather bar, you had your dyke bar, you had your black bar, you had your (insert specifically targeted audience here). Meet the new audience, folks - online is the same as offline. The gay "culture" has moved from the gay bar to the online forum, and it's the same.damn.thing.all.over.again.

 

Nothing about this discussion, nothing, is new.

 

"Let's talk about "gay" culture!" "No, I'd rather talk about queer culture." "I hate the word 'queer'". "Well, I like it".

 

Y'all can't even decide on synonyms. Let alone, as has been pointed out, the differences in being gay in different countries, and the resultant cultural differences in THAT conversation.

 

I spent some time, early in my out life, trying to be an "activist". What a joke. We were fighting for three things: more $$ for AIDS treatment, equal housing in a specific city, and trying to drum up support for a candidate for a local office. We were so focused we couldn't even figure out a platform:

- The lesbians hated the AIDS fundraising because it took away from their pet project, the equal housing thing.

- Gay men didn't like the equal housing thing because the lesbians had taken it over.

- The candidate couldn't even get anyone to hand him a microphone.

 

So the group broke into factions within the organization - all arguing amongst themselves and not even talking to the larger group, but within their factions - so vehemently about the right way to go about whatever it was they were doing, that it turned into three separate circlejerks. The organization's leadership resigned and was replaced 4 separate times...in six months.Which is about the time I gave up and went to the bar..to meet up with some 18-24 year old blondie with a big dick, because that's what I was supposed to do. And that's why labels suck - they put you in a box, where people who look in the box have specific expectations of you - how you look, how you act, who you hang with, where you go. If you step out of the box, well, you're out! Go away, you're weird. I was supposed to go hookup with some idiot, because that's the box I was in. It took awhile, but I got rid of the boxes.

 

"Gay culture" is so fragmented, so argumentative and circlejerky. There's culture clash from outside the gay culture because everyone has another culture to belong to. 

 

Yes, being "gay" is a sexuality. It's also a culture.

 

And here, in the US (and on this very message board), it shows a very privileged, very "elitist" attitude toward others who aren't just like us.

 

Welcome to being human, as shitty as it is sometimes. Which is why I find that as I age, I don't care about the "gay" thing anymore. I'd rather meet people who share activities (like cards, and movies and whatnot), and not labels. 

 

Lately, I've gotten interested in local bands, through a gay friend of mine. We go to bars, and watch bands play. He knows a lot of the bandmembers, which is fun. We very, very rarely even mention being gay. It's just not important. And a lot less frustrating than being around a bunch of picky, elitist weirdos who think their shit doesn't stink.

 Thank you. That was a very succinct summary. I liked this rant and I approve of it. Yes, it is a rant and arguably has some sour grape quality. Nonetheless it actually answers the question without tiptoeing around it. Deconstruction of "Culture" and "Gay" and other things are all very good, but it hardly looks at Gay Culture as a composite whole. Right now we are on the etymology of "Fag". 

 

Anyways, thank you for your honest opinion. It sure puts some light onto the ideas of Gay culture in North America. I like to think that we are in a post-gay era in that region. Even if rampant discrimination and the HIV-AIDS crisis had not reared its head, we would be there sooner or later. A consumerist culture is essentially fragmentary. It makes you think as an unit as opposed to a community. While this enhances personal freedom, it also diminishes the sense of togetherness that a community has.

 

On an unrelated note, I found your comment to be of poetic value. Good writing. 

[asamvav111]

Is the lack of gay cultural interaction in countries where homosexuality is punished a blessing in disguise? Has the internet been more of a curse for us who live in such countries because the interaction here is more focused on circulating the stereotypes than making our voices heard? What do you think?

[crazyfish]

History rife with petty nobles fighting other petty nobles and they can only come to common cause because there's a guy with a bigger war boner than all of them combined. They fight off big guy and instead of building on their new found unity, they go back to infighting. 

 

 

The problem is endemic to any community brought together by an external threat. If the sense of togetherness is based on the mere fact of discrimination and prejudice, it's bound to crumble as soon as the threat fades away.

[Celethiel]

to my understanding it is both a culture and a sexuality, however they don't nessarilly equate to each other.

 

And those words are the simplest answer one needs.